View Full Version : Best Sports Rivalry


agoodfella
04-21-2007, 02:56 PM
Yankees vs. Red Sox, obviously...

what are some of the best rivalries in sports? i'll kick it off:

Michigan vs. Ohio State...

ryandg81
04-21-2007, 02:57 PM
cubs vs. cards

agoodfella
04-21-2007, 02:59 PM
washington redskins vs. dallas cowboys

hangar18502
04-21-2007, 03:07 PM
Rangers / Devils

Stevie4Stern
04-21-2007, 03:12 PM
fuck Ohio State.

GO BLUE!

sjollypbj
04-21-2007, 03:16 PM
Miami-FIU, Miami finished what those illiterate fucks at FIU started last year. This year Miami wins by at least 63. Swinging crutches and helmets, don't come into the OB without a war plan

Stevie4Stern
04-21-2007, 03:21 PM
Manchester City/Manchester United

oneldef
04-21-2007, 03:21 PM
Cabbie vs Angry Black

MLaw
04-21-2007, 03:22 PM
used to be Lakers/Celtics, they only met two times a year in the regular season, but it was always the most anticipates match-up in sports.

The NBA finals were changed, from 2-2-1-1-1 to 2-3-2 because of it.

tyrnightwolf
04-21-2007, 03:27 PM
cubs vs. cards Fox broke into the game a little while ago to show A-Rods at bat. It's fucking APRIL for Christ's sake. I couldn't believe it.

oneldef
04-21-2007, 03:29 PM
Fox broke into the game a little while ago to show A-Rods at bat. It's fucking APRIL for Christ's sake. I couldn't believe it.

The rest of the country doesn't care about crappy Midwest Cubs/Cards rivalry. Show me the big boys back East.

KingOfAllWhites
04-21-2007, 03:32 PM
Isles/Rangers

Stevie4Stern
04-21-2007, 03:33 PM
few years ago the Red Wings/Avalanche was hot hot hot...

sir1us
04-21-2007, 03:37 PM
Mets/Braves i was interested in seeing that series, fuckin blacked out. :mad:

tyrnightwolf
04-21-2007, 03:39 PM
The rest of the country doesn't care about crappy Midwest Cubs/Cards rivalry. Show me the big boys back East. That may be true, but I'm IN the midwest, and people here don't give a fuck about Yanks/Sox especially in April.

KingOfAllMedia
04-21-2007, 03:40 PM
Sox/Yankees
Patriots/Colts

richlk8177
04-21-2007, 03:40 PM
The Browns and Steelers use to be a good rivalry until the Browns left, now that there back i just don't care like i use too

SparkyInVegas
04-21-2007, 03:40 PM
anything but the Sox/Yanks

thekev1130
04-21-2007, 03:44 PM
The rest of the country doesn't care about crappy Midwest Cubs/Cards rivalry. Show me the big boys back East.


99% of the country could give a fuck less if the gorilla looking Puerto Rican from Boston or the faggot 3rd baseman in the cesspool of NY die in a full on gay car wreck.

richlk8177
04-21-2007, 03:45 PM
I don't really care that much about baseball unless it is the Indians but you have to respect the long history and tradition between the Yankees and Red Sox.

grege345
04-21-2007, 03:46 PM
penn state vs Notre dame

SparkyInVegas
04-21-2007, 03:56 PM
99% of the country could give a fuck less if the gorilla looking Puerto Rican from Boston or the faggot 3rd baseman in the cesspool of NY die in a full on gay car wreck.


:bigclap: :bigclap:

SparkyInVegas
04-21-2007, 03:56 PM
My fav sports Rivalry is Me vs the sportsbook

Apoc13
04-21-2007, 04:10 PM
duke/nc
broncos/raiders

oneldef
04-21-2007, 04:27 PM
penn state vs Notre dame


???????????

Penn State and Notre Dame don't even play regularly like they used to. Hell, Michigan is more of a rival than the Lions.

The Irish only have one TRUE rival - USC.

Kayotic1
04-21-2007, 07:18 PM
Notre Dame/USC
Cards/Cubs (I am on the west coast and yes I give a fuck)
Sox/Yanks
Bears/Packers
Broncos/Raiders

Devil_Dog_Dre
04-21-2007, 07:40 PM
Cal/Stanford

Shocker54
04-21-2007, 11:57 PM
Devil Rays vs Royals

NeonPeon
04-22-2007, 12:20 AM
I love American sports, but the history in world football and history behind the teams means it has the most tribal supporters with the most bitter rivalries:

Liverpool vs Man United (if they meet in CL finals it could be war in Athens, and I'll be there trying not to be involved)
Celtic v Rangers
Boca v River
Olympiacos vs Panathinaikos

Zoider
04-22-2007, 05:32 AM
Dallas Cowboys/washington redskins
Michigan/ohio state
University of Texas/oklahoma
49'ers/Rams
Denver/Raiders

Zoider
04-22-2007, 05:37 AM
Forgot
UCLA/usc

elway0798
04-22-2007, 06:05 AM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/Sluger/broncos-.jpg vs http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y278/lol78/thraiders.gif

StumpMerrill
04-22-2007, 06:49 AM
Yankees vs. Red Sox, obviously...

what are some of the best rivalries in sports? i'll kick it off:

Michigan vs. Ohio State...

Yankees-Sox is the most overblown rivalry in sports all-time. RIGHT NOW it is great and one of the best but it hasn't been much of a rivlary all-time.

UNC vs duke basketball is the best we have in this Country. These 2 schools are less than 10 miles apart and are always competing for ACC Championships, always seem to be playing when they are top 5-10 teams and since 1980 they have combined for 6 Nat'l Tiles and 19 Final Four appearnces- just amazing especially compared to an OSU-Mich FB rivlary where they have combined for 2 titles and 3 title game appearances in the same span.

ryandg81
04-22-2007, 10:57 AM
ali vs. frazier

ryandg81
04-22-2007, 10:58 AM
tiger woods vs. everyone else

chicagoirishtim
04-22-2007, 03:50 PM
Bears Vs Packers

Fuck Yankees and BoSox, no one cares...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Bulls-Knicks of the 90's was great, Knick fans, how bout that Charles Smith

ryandg81
04-22-2007, 06:37 PM
knicks-heat of the 90's

johnnyct8285
04-22-2007, 06:55 PM
back in the day you could says celtics/lakers

Case a Beer
04-22-2007, 07:48 PM
Is this thread about current ones or in the past???

Current would be Pats v Colts, Sox v. Yanks

Great teams and great players make the rivalry better.

nedmark61
04-22-2007, 11:17 PM
the only true cross nation rivalry......................... Notre Dame and usc

nedmark61
04-22-2007, 11:19 PM
I love American sports, but the history in world football and history behind the teams means it has the most tribal supporters with the most bitter rivalries:

Liverpool vs Man United (if they meet in CL finals it could be war in Athens, and I'll be there trying not to be involved)
Celtic v Rangers
Boca v River
Olympiacos vs Panathinaikos





soccer doesn't count........................... unless your a sissy boy

donkrabbit
04-22-2007, 11:29 PM
I'd say Giants/Dodgers but college rivalries always seem to be the most passionate so I'll go with USC/UCLA

NeonPeon
04-23-2007, 01:35 AM
soccer doesn't count........................... unless your a sissy boy

Ah, "your" one of those "soccers for fag" dolts. How refreshing.

Theres nothing throughout american sports that compares to any of those rivalries. There just isn't. Some college supporters begin to have a clue, but its not close. And professional sports? There's no such thing as an away end, the fans are mixed, thousands aren't traveling to see their team every weekend, theres nowhere near the spontaneity, volume, or organization, despite in many cases stadia that are twice the size. Americans really miss out on that end of things.

I don't particularly want to have an OT debate about football, so I'll just leave you thinking theres something inherently homosexual about one game involving a round ball, as opposed to another game involving a round ball.

chicagoirishtim
04-23-2007, 04:17 AM
Yeah, too bad us meatball Americans aren't soccer thugs, we should be ashamed of ourselves :rolleyes:

Garvej
04-23-2007, 06:38 AM
penn state vs Notre dame

Fuck you.

Nothing can touch UM vs OSU, not even the baseball shit.

Birddogtx
04-23-2007, 06:55 AM
Texas v OU is a more intense rivalry than UM v OSU. I have been to both and it is not even close.

Billyfromsphily
04-23-2007, 08:15 AM
Robin Quivers's Left tit versus her Right tit!

redndirty
04-23-2007, 08:36 AM
Here's my best:
1. Duke/North Carolina
2. Texas/Oklahoma
3. Michigan/Ohio State
4. Yankees/Red Sox
5. Colts/Patriots

One of the best that I haven't seen mentioned is Alabama and Auburn. I know that as a whole the nation doesn't care, but that state stands still for the week of the Iron Bowl. It's crazy.

Luther
04-23-2007, 08:50 AM
I love American sports, but the history in world football and history behind the teams means it has the most tribal supporters with the most bitter rivalries:

Liverpool vs Man United (if they meet in CL finals it could be war in Athens, and I'll be there trying not to be involved)
Celtic v Rangers
Boca v River
Olympiacos vs Panathinaikos


Those are good, but I think Barcelona v Real Madrid is the most intense rivalry in football.

NeonPeon
04-23-2007, 09:38 AM
Yeah, too bad us meatball Americans aren't soccer thugs, we should be ashamed of ourselves :rolleyes:

There hasn't been significant hooliganism in english football for years and years. I'm talking about the passion of the fans exhibited in a spectacular, non violent manner.

Oh, and Barca Real? Rivals by regional difference and also competitors with each other, but the level of vitriol isn't quite there from what I'm seen, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Billyfromsphily
04-23-2007, 10:05 AM
Everybody forgot

ARMY/NAVY !

redndirty
04-23-2007, 11:28 AM
Somebody might of posted this one and I missed it. It's lost some of its luster over the last few years, but during the 1990's the best rivalry in college football was arguably Miami and Florida State.

nedsfartbox
04-23-2007, 05:29 PM
i'm a little biased.. but, my favorite is kentucky vs louisville... professional wise i enjoy the bengals/browns... i'm a fan of watching any rivaly series in pretty much any sport..

thoroldjames
04-23-2007, 05:53 PM
Manchester City/Manchester United

What you gonna do when the City runs wild on you?


My friends would think it's funny.
We're a wild bunch :o



Glasgow Rangers vs. Celtic


Leafs vs. Habs

Rusty Christy
04-23-2007, 08:46 PM
Thee Ohio State University v. SCum
Browns - Squeelers
Celtic v. Rankers......


Mon the Hoops

Knowledge
04-24-2007, 03:19 AM
Yanks Vs. Sox

Colts Vs. Patriots

NY Giants Vs. Philadelphia Eagles

NY Giants Vs. Dallas Cowboys

chicagoirishtim
04-24-2007, 04:14 AM
NY Giants Vs. Philadelphia Eagles

NY Giants Vs. Dallas Cowboys

I didn't even know they were rivals, which proves most of this shit is all based on where you live or who you root for.

Knowledge
04-24-2007, 04:20 AM
I didn't even know they were rivals, which proves most of this shit is all based on where you live or who you root for.

Are you serious? Basically every single NFC East game is knock down drag out because all the teams hate each other...

MLBoros72s
04-24-2007, 06:38 AM
FUCK OHIO STATE

http://static.flickr.com/80/232210805_86a913ea40.jpg

As far as professional sports, I think only the Red Sox/Yanks really qualify in America as a great rivalry.

StumpMerrill
04-24-2007, 07:23 AM
Somebody might of posted this one and I missed it. It's lost some of its luster over the last few years, but during the 1990's the best rivalry in college football was arguably Miami and Florida State.

Miami-FSU at it's pak blew away Michigan-OSU BUT FSU and Miami have been struggling alot lately and the teams haven't both been big time since about 2000.

LarryHorseFucker
04-24-2007, 08:25 AM
BEARS/packers

LarryHorseFucker
04-24-2007, 08:26 AM
Texas v OU is a more intense rivalry than UM v OSU. I have been to both and it is not even close. You are wrong

Migs318
04-24-2007, 11:45 PM
Dodgers Vs Giants

USC Vs. Ucla

ByForNow
04-25-2007, 08:04 AM
U of M vs. OSU is the best in college sports, hands down.

Red Wings/Avs was one of the greatest pro sports rivalries ever, but has faded in recent years.

agoodfella
04-25-2007, 02:23 PM
Harvard vs. Yale... that's really old school...

Army vs. Navy... another classic.

philljm
04-25-2007, 05:36 PM
Husband vs Wife....

Enough said

smokebomb
04-25-2007, 09:22 PM
North Carolina vs Duke in hoops

Migs318
04-26-2007, 01:04 AM
Chivas vs America

mikeh77
04-26-2007, 04:13 AM
Its easily Ali and Frazier....this other stuff is just "games" were talking about 2 men who had hatred for each other (mainly Frazier) who put on 3 great wars (2 were ungodly brutal)

JasonS
04-26-2007, 01:19 PM
Miami-FSU at it's pak blew away Michigan-OSU BUT FSU and Miami have been struggling alot lately and the teams haven't both been big time since about 2000.


Here is where you just proved my point for me..."Miami-FUS at it's peak"

Michigan v. Ohio State is and has always been "at it's peak" since the time of Bo and Woody. Show me another rivalry that has fans as passionate as this plus a tradition that is unmatched plus two greats in the coaching profession that hated the other school so much.

The rivalry is so heated that in 1968 Woody Hayes' OSU team scored late in the game to make it 48-14 and Woody decided to go for 2 to make the final 50-14. When asked why he went for two, he uttered one of his famous phrases, "because I couldn't go for three."

"Hayes once said that he ran out of gas while on a recruiting trip and pushed the car south on I-75 rather than spend his money on gas in That State Up North."

"Bo never believed in national championships, never believed there should be or could be anything greater for a Michigan team than beating Ohio State."

Bo's biggest win was against Woody Hayes' best team ever in 1969 in Bo's first game against OSU as the head coach of Michigan. Woody was still pissed off about this until the day he died.

These guys battled for Big Ten titles every year and the schools still battle consistently for them today. If you want a good rivalry, you can't have a peak and a valley. The emotions from the players and the fans have to be there all the time. In fact, as a Michigan fan, I still get yelled at for wearing a Michigan shirt in Columbus during the off-season. The jawing never ends. There is no other rivalry that can compare to this one. 103 years and counting.

redndirty
04-26-2007, 04:31 PM
I am going to have to back you up on that Michigan and Ohio State rivalry. Well said.

steve7968
04-26-2007, 04:43 PM
yanks/redsox hands down alltime

steve7968
04-26-2007, 04:44 PM
others
army/navy
celts/lakers

kenton19
04-26-2007, 07:54 PM
Baseball - Red Sox vs Yankees
Hockey - Toronto vs Montreal
Football - Bears vs Packers

Toronto Tom
04-26-2007, 08:41 PM
Hockey - Toronto vs Montreal


You are very wise grasshopper.

StumpMerrill
04-27-2007, 07:10 AM
yanks/redsox hands down alltime

hands down the most overrated rivalry of all-time. This "great rivalry" has about 3 periods of actually being a great rivalry. it goes from Sox sell bae to Dimaggio vs. Williams(more of a personal rivalry than team) to the mid-late 70s to '03-current. That's not much of a rivalry when the teams have been playing for over a Century.

el grudgeo
04-27-2007, 07:48 PM
Yankees vs. Red Sox, obviously...

what are some of the best rivalries in sports? i'll kick it off:

Michigan vs. Ohio State... Im on the west coast and hate the yanks and sox but goddamn i love watching those games be it april or october.Something exciting always happens.

TiltedDonkey
04-27-2007, 10:22 PM
Here is where you just proved my point for me..."Miami-FUS at it's peak"

Michigan v. Ohio State is and has always been "at it's peak" since the time of Bo and Woody. Show me another rivalry that has fans as passionate as this plus a tradition that is unmatched plus two greats in the coaching profession that hated the other school so much.

The rivalry is so heated that in 1968 Woody Hayes' OSU team scored late in the game to make it 48-14 and Woody decided to go for 2 to make the final 50-14. When asked why he went for two, he uttered one of his famous phrases, "because I couldn't go for three."

"Hayes once said that he ran out of gas while on a recruiting trip and pushed the car south on I-75 rather than spend his money on gas in That State Up North."

"Bo never believed in national championships, never believed there should be or could be anything greater for a Michigan team than beating Ohio State."

Bo's biggest win was against Woody Hayes' best team ever in 1969 in Bo's first game against OSU as the head coach of Michigan. Woody was still pissed off about this until the day he died.

These guys battled for Big Ten titles every year and the schools still battle consistently for them today. If you want a good rivalry, you can't have a peak and a valley. The emotions from the players and the fans have to be there all the time. In fact, as a Michigan fan, I still get yelled at for wearing a Michigan shirt in Columbus during the off-season. The jawing never ends. There is no other rivalry that can compare to this one. 103 years and counting.

Well said.

DodgerBlues
04-27-2007, 10:41 PM
I never miss a Yankees v Sox series. Gotta catch at least one full game, if not all.

el grudgeo
04-27-2007, 10:53 PM
The Macho MAN Randy Savage vs. George the Animal Steele.ooooh yeah

DodgerBlues
04-27-2007, 10:54 PM
The Macho MAN Randy Savage vs. George the Animal Steele.ooooh yeah

awww shit.......... Jake the Snake vs. Ricky Steamboat // Roddy Piper vs. Superfly Jimmy Snuka

el grudgeo
04-27-2007, 11:04 PM
awww shit.......... Jake the Snake vs. Ricky Steamboat // Roddy Piper vs. Superfly Jimmy Snuka rIC fLAIR VS. sTING OR Ricky Steamboat

el grudgeo
04-27-2007, 11:08 PM
Rock Balboa vs.Ivan Drago.If he dies ,he dies.

StumpMerrill
04-28-2007, 07:01 AM
Here is where you just proved my point for me..."Miami-FUS at it's peak"

Michigan v. Ohio State is and has always been "at it's peak" since the time of Bo and Woody. Show me another rivalry that has fans as passionate as this plus a tradition that is unmatched plus two greats in the coaching profession that hated the other school so much.

The rivalry is so heated that in 1968 Woody Hayes' OSU team scored late in the game to make it 48-14 and Woody decided to go for 2 to make the final 50-14. When asked why he went for two, he uttered one of his famous phrases, "because I couldn't go for three."

"Hayes once said that he ran out of gas while on a recruiting trip and pushed the car south on I-75 rather than spend his money on gas in That State Up North."

"Bo never believed in national championships, never believed there should be or could be anything greater for a Michigan team than beating Ohio State."

Bo's biggest win was against Woody Hayes' best team ever in 1969 in Bo's first game against OSU as the head coach of Michigan. Woody was still pissed off about this until the day he died.

These guys battled for Big Ten titles every year and the schools still battle consistently for them today. If you want a good rivalry, you can't have a peak and a valley. The emotions from the players and the fans have to be there all the time. In fact, as a Michigan fan, I still get yelled at for wearing a Michigan shirt in Columbus during the off-season. The jawing never ends. There is no other rivalry that can compare to this one. 103 years and counting.

Mich-OSU hasn't aways ben t it's peak, the 2 schools have combind for 2 titls and 1 title game appearance in about 30 years while Miami and FSU in the same span have combined for about 7 titles nd I'd say 10 title game appearances. They have both fallen of in recent years but from the mid 80s through the early 00s NOTHING came close to those 2 schools.

battling for Big 10 titles is nice but every year Miami and FSU played w/ NATIONAL TITLE implications.

norton
04-28-2007, 07:42 AM
ohio state and the michigan waaaaaalverines

jimmyritt33
04-28-2007, 02:42 PM
In the old days I would have said Red Sox vs Yankees, but with the unbalanced schedule I've kind of grown tired of it. I am kind of into the Dodgers vs Giants rivalry lately, don't know why.

wsuraider
04-28-2007, 08:24 PM
Raiders/Steelers in the 70's.

wsuraider
04-28-2007, 08:25 PM
Chivas vs America So true.

oug13
04-29-2007, 07:16 PM
Michigan vs. Ohio State...

manny75586
04-29-2007, 07:59 PM
The rest of the country doesn't care about crappy Midwest Cubs/Cards rivalry. Show me the big boys back East.


same holds true for the middle and west of the country of the east so what's your point?

And by "big boys" you are referring to the Yankees yes? Cause the Red Sox certainly aren't "big boys"

manny75586
04-29-2007, 08:01 PM
BEARS/packers

definitely the biggest in club sports in the US no doubt.

manny75586
04-29-2007, 08:02 PM
soccer- US Men's team v. Mexico. If you can't get into that you need to see a doctor because you are a corpse. ;)

Celtic
04-30-2007, 01:53 AM
Celtic v Rangers even though Rangers have been shite.

LarryHorseFucker
04-30-2007, 07:41 AM
Mich-OSU hasn't aways ben t it's peak, the 2 schools have combind for 2 titls and 1 title game appearance in about 30 years while Miami and FSU in the same span have combined for about 7 titles nd I'd say 10 title game appearances. They have both fallen of in recent years but from the mid 80s through the early 00s NOTHING came close to those 2 schools.

battling for Big 10 titles is nice but every year Miami and FSU played w/ NATIONAL TITLE implications. Yeah being 1 and 2 in the final week is falling off:rolleye2:

IYAOYAS
04-30-2007, 11:55 AM
Another vote for Ohio State vs Michigan. Plus Browns vs Steelers when the Browns actually had a competative team. Maybe that will change now.....

Rob Ryan
04-30-2007, 12:00 PM
Biggest rivalries:
Notre Dame-USC
Mets-Braves
Yanks-BoSox
Jets-Dolphins
Giants-Cowboys/Eagles/Redskins

JasonS
04-30-2007, 06:02 PM
Mich-OSU hasn't aways ben t it's peak, the 2 schools have combind for 2 titls and 1 title game appearance in about 30 years while Miami and FSU in the same span have combined for about 7 titles nd I'd say 10 title game appearances. They have both fallen of in recent years but from the mid 80s through the early 00s NOTHING came close to those 2 schools.

battling for Big 10 titles is nice but every year Miami and FSU played w/ NATIONAL TITLE implications.

Let's talk facts if you want to go down this road.

National Titles: Michigan - 11
Ohio State - 7

Miami (FL) - 5
Florida State - 2

Conference Titles: Michigan - 42
Ohio State - 31

Miami - 9
Florida State - 15

Wins Since 1969: Michigan - 351
Ohio State - 330

Miami - 303
Florida State - 320

Conference Titles since 1969: Michigan - 21
Ohio State - 19

Miami - 9
Florida State - 12

Some conference titles were shared


I think the deciding factor here, if the numbers don't speak for themselves, is the conference these schools play in. For OSU and Michigan to have the records they do playing in the Big Ten is incredible. The ACC for years was nothing except FSU and the Big East was never known for it's Football prowess. There is a reason that OSU and Michigan have played the last game of the year since the 1940s. I have a hard time believing that a game in week one or two can have complete "National Title implications." There is still a lot to be decided after week 1 or 2.

elroyjonz
04-30-2007, 06:23 PM
Harvard vs. Yale... that's really old school...

Army vs. Navy... another classic.



Old School is Lehigh Univ. vs. Lafayette Univ. That is the oldest rivalry in collegiate or professional sports. Now that I have cleared that up ....this thread can now die.

StumpMerrill
05-02-2007, 06:01 AM
Let's talk facts if you want to go down this road.

National Titles: Michigan - 11
Ohio State - 7

Miami (FL) - 5
Florida State - 2

Conference Titles: Michigan - 42
Ohio State - 31

Miami - 9
Florida State - 15

Wins Since 1969: Michigan - 351
Ohio State - 330

Miami - 303
Florida State - 320

Conference Titles since 1969: Michigan - 21
Ohio State - 19

Miami - 9
Florida State - 12

Some conference titles were shared


I think the deciding factor here, if the numbers don't speak for themselves, is the conference these schools play in. For OSU and Michigan to have the records they do playing in the Big Ten is incredible. The ACC for years was nothing except FSU and the Big East was never known for it's Football prowess. There is a reason that OSU and Michigan have played the last game of the year since the 1940s. I have a hard time believing that a game in week one or two can have complete "National Title implications." There is still a lot to be decided after week 1 or 2.

I said last 30 years, in the modern era. It was alot easier to win titles back in the 30s and 40s when those schools were winning.

Your conf titles section looks great except for ONE little problem. Miami wasn't in a conference until 1991 and FSU 1992.

You note Nat'l titiles all time but Miami and FSU didn't become powers until the 80s and since they did they have 7 while Mich and OSU have just 2 and Mich shared theirs while Miami was robbed in 2003 after a terrible call gave OSU a 2nd chance to win.


The Big 10 has been anoverraed conference b/c of ich and OSU and when they are your best teams and have just 2 titles and 3 title game appearances in 30 years that should tell you something. Miami and FSU used to be independents and played a tougher sched than Mich or OSU in the Big 10.

OSU and Mich has been the last game of te season and yet only 3 times has eiter of them playd for a nat'l Title in the last 30 years or so. Miami and FSU have won 7 and played for played in at least 6-7 more title games.