Johan Santana trade talk thread [Archive]

Pussah2

12-04-2007, 10:07 AM

By Jon Heyman, SI.com

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- With the Yankees and Twins making limited progress as the Yanks' self-imposed midnight deadline came and went, the Twins rekindled talks with the Red Sox early Tuesday and asked Boston to present a deal including top young lefthander Jon Lester.

People involved in the talks said they believed the situation was coming to a head and that Minnesota would soon decide between the Yankees and the Red Sox offers. New York has been seen as the favorite, but Boston may have jumped back into the mix given the midnight phone call.

The Twins and Yankees reached what one person called an "impasse'' shortly before midnight CST. The Twins were asking that the Yankees include either pitcher Ian Kennedy or a tandem of pitching prospect Alan Horne and outfield prospect Austin Jackson in their package with pitcher Phil Hughes and outfielder Melky Cabrera.

The Red Sox have made offers that included Lester or outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury, but not both players. Boston also has been willing to include other top prospects, such as pitchers Justin Masterson or Michael Bowden and shortstop Jed Lowrie.

The Yankees told the Twins earlier that they did not want to trade either Horne or Jackson, and certainly not both. Two general managers from other teams described Horne as "a No. 5 starter,'' but one scout said Jackson has tremendous potential.

The midnight deadline set by Yankees owner Hank Steinbrenner -- whether he meant EST or CST -- passed without a deal. The Twins, however, reportedly felt more amused than threatened by New York's ultimatum and when no agreement was reached early Tuesday, they simply resumed talking to the Red Sox.

"It's still something that we can't do," Steinbrenner told the Associated Press on Tuesday morning . "As far as I'm concerned, it's probably off."

While refusing to discuss Santana specifically, Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein said he had no expiration date on any trade talks. In the past, he has set a deadline for potential deals if they were holding up other deals.

"I think we've only done that when we thought it was in our best interest," Epstein said. "We don't have current discussions ongoing for which I think that would be in our best interest. We're pretty content with where we are and we don't think anything major is getting held up."

Other trades were percolating in the meeting rooms.

Florida is expected to deal third baseman Miguel Cabrera sometime soon, and Baltimore is shopping shortstop Miguel Tejada. Oakland is checking out the market for pitcher Dan Haren.

Yankees general manager Brian Cashman admitted there's a fear that players he might trade could win Cy Young Awards for another team.

"I'm definitely fully invested in a lot of the young talent. You get attached to it," Cashman said.

The Associated Press contributed to this story.

DestroVega

12-04-2007, 10:49 AM

How can the Twins demand Kennedy in addition to Hughes and Melky, but take Lester, Crisp and two prospects?

Hughes is the #1 prospect in baseball...

I actually hope the Twins turn the Yankees down, this has gotten rigoddamndiculous...

I do find it funny though how teams will rake the Yankees for more than they will trade players to other teams... case in point, the D'Backs demanded either Posada or Soriano for Schilling and took Fossum from the Sox.... yeah.

That's karma though.

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 11:00 AM

DestroVega

12-04-2007, 11:06 AM

:lol:

WAAAA we have a $250,000,000 payroll and other teams want all of our prospects WAAAAA
:D

That wasn't my point...

the point was, if the Twins don't get either Ellsbury or Buchholz from the Red Sox for Santana, they are taking a lesser deal than Hughes and Melky... so how can they demand Kennedy as well?

It's fine though, just pass on him.

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 11:11 AM

That wasn't my point...

the point was, if the Twins don't get either Ellsbury or Buchholz from the Red Sox for Santana, they are taking a lesser deal than Hughes and Melky... so how can they demand Kennedy as well?

It's fine though, just pass on him.

Well i guess you and Mr Smith share different opinions. If he takes the Red Sox ofter, obviously his baseball staff and himself feel like it is the better package. If not ,they would take the Yankees package...

Dont forget, the way fans rate prospects and baseball people rate prospects ofter are very different(see Mr Milledge :( )

P.S I was only busting your balls with the waaa post

DestroVega

12-04-2007, 11:14 AM

Well i guess you and Mr Smith share different opinions. If he takes the Red Sox ofter, obviously his baseball staff and himself feel like it is the better package. If not ,they would take the Yankees package...

Dont forget, the way fans rate prospects and baseball people rate prospects ofter are very different(see Mr Milledge :( )

P.S I was only busting your balls with the waaa post

Nah I know...

in my opinion though, if you don't get Ellsbury or Buchholz from the Sox, you just aren't getting what you should.

I'm glad the Yankees aren't willing to go crazy here.

and Milledge is good man, the Mets just didn't want him around and every team knew it. He will be a nice player.

oneldef

12-04-2007, 11:17 AM

How can the Twins demand Kennedy in addition to Hughes and Melky, but take Lester, Crisp and two prospects?

Hughes is the #1 prospect in baseball...

First off, Melky isn't a top prospect and most GMs realize that if he played for anyone else, he would be an afterthought. Secondly, Hughes is NOT the #1 prospect in baseball anymore. The yankees don't even value him as much as Joba. I think Hughes will eventually grow into being a very solid #2 starter and I'd love to have him on my team, but even before his injury, he had trouble locating his curve, never hit the supposed "96-99" mph fastball on MLB guns, and has no changeup. His ERA and overall stuff last season hurt his value whether it's a warranted or not.

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 11:31 AM

and Milledge is good man, the Mets just didn't want him around and every team knew it. He will be a nice player.

You dont have to tell me that twice. I guarantee you he wins at least 1 game for Washington next year against the Mets, maybe evn 2 or 3.....

Apoc13

12-04-2007, 12:11 PM

from what i'm hearing it looks like the twins might take the lester deal....which is awesome because we keep both buchholz and ellsbury...but we'll see

EMFBoss

12-04-2007, 12:17 PM

from what i'm hearing it looks like the twins might take the lester deal....which is awesome because we keep both buchholz and ellsbury...but we'll see

The trade deal seems to be locked, but they still need to sign an extension...which could pay him up to $25/mill yr...

Last updated: 12/04, 1:13 p.m.
Report: Deal details still undecided
ESPN's Peter Gammons reported that the Twins and Red Sox are "supposed to meet this afternoon to continue discussions on the Johan Santana deal. Sources indicate the Twins are still trying to decide between a 3-for-1 trade for center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, infielder Jed Lowrie, pitching prospect Justin Masterson and a 4-for-1 swap that substitutes lefty starter Jon Lester and center fielder Coco Crisp for Ellsbury." ... From SI.com's John Heyman this afternoon: "The Red Sox are expected to enhance their offer by the early afternoon Tuesday. After the Twins' talks with the Yankees hit a stalemate over prospects just as the Yankees' self-imposed deadline hit late Monday, Minnesota put in a midnight call to Boston and requested that the Red Sox make their 'best' offer that included young left-hander Jon Lester." Heyman also writes that the Twins are expected to decide by the end of today whether Santana will go to Boston or possibly the Yankees, though the Bombers have said any deal is "probably off." The Red Sox and Twins exchanged medical information on Santana and Lester early this morning, an indication that the clubs may be closing in on a deal, according to Boston Globe reporters Gordon Edes and Amalie Benjamin. It's unclear whether Jacoby Ellsbury was included in their offer, but according to Edes, "There were indications that the Twins would be getting center fielder Coco Crisp, pitcher Justin Masterson and infielder Jed Lowrie in addition to Lester. But that was not confirmed. Repeat, That has not yet been confirmed." The Herald's Michael Silverman reported later in the morning that after reviewing Lester's medical information, the Twins were satisfied that there were no red flags there that would block a deal and Theo Epstein was expected to resume discussions with the Twins before noon. Early this morning, ESPN.com reported that "If the Twins were satisfied with Lester's medicals, it's believed they would accept a swap of him, Coco Crisp, shortstop prospect Jed Lowrie and either highly regarded pitching prospect Justin Masterson or another player. Or if the Twins reversed field and decided they wanted center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury instead, it's believed that would be a 3-for-1 trade -- with only Ellsbury, Masterson and Lowrie going to Minnesota." But is there still hope for the Yankees to get back in it? Minnesota came off its demand that the Yankees include pitcher Ian Kennedy along with pitcher Phil Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera, but the Twins still were asking for more than the Yankees were willing to offer. "It's still something that we can't do," Steinbrenner said Tuesday morning. "As far as I'm concerned, it's probably off." Steinbrenner, a senior vice president and son of owner George Steinbrenner, planned to speak with general manager Brian Cashman later today to assess the team's stance. Any team that strikes a deal for Santana will request a 72-hour window to discuss a contract extension, with Santana believed to be looking for at least $25 million a year. "If the Red Sox get Santana," one NL executive told ESPN's Jason Stark, "they might be the best team in the history of the frigging universe."

Pussah2

12-04-2007, 12:27 PM

on wfan, it pretty much said he is going to boston and the yankees are not budging

CMF

12-04-2007, 12:29 PM

If Boston gets Santana without giving up Buchholz and Ellsbury, it proves once again that Theo Epstein is the boy genius.

DestroVega

12-04-2007, 12:42 PM

First off, Melky isn't a top prospect and most GMs realize that if he played for anyone else, he would be an afterthought. Secondly, Hughes is NOT the #1 prospect in baseball anymore. The yankees don't even value him as much as Joba. I think Hughes will eventually grow into being a very solid #2 starter and I'd love to have him on my team, but even before his injury, he had trouble locating his curve, never hit the supposed "96-99" mph fastball on MLB guns, and has no changeup. His ERA and overall stuff last season hurt his value whether it's a warranted or not.

A total Red Sox fan talking about a guy you want to downplay... sorry, I have watched Hughes pitch every game and he is going to be great... not to mention is going to be way better than Buchholz.

The fact the Twins are going to give up Santana without getting Ellsbury is laughable, I will enjoy watching them suck-ass for the foreseeable future.

I'm fine with the Red Sox getting Santana... I never have to hear Theo talk about not having the money to compete with the Yankees again. You have to give them credit for basically only having to give up Lester for Santana, as their other guys here aren't going to be playing for the Sox anytime soon.

And Melky is a nice player, I am not touting him as something great... but I'll take him and his salary over Crisp and his.

Also, Hughes was the #1 prospect going into last year, now that he's in the majors he is off the list.

DestroVega

12-04-2007, 12:46 PM

If Boston gets Santana without giving up Buchholz and Ellsbury, it proves once again that Theo Epstein is the boy genius.

yeah? how did that Gagne trade play out :rolleyes:

Clement signing? :rolleyes:

Drew? Lugo?

All this trade proves is that Minnesota sees something in the two prospects that makes them think they are getting full value, or they are complete idiots (my feeling).

Theo made amazing moves in 2004 and for that he will pretty much always have the benefit of the doubt in Boston, but don't give me the boy genius shit, he has made plenty of bad moves like evey other GM.

CMF

12-04-2007, 12:56 PM

yeah? how did that Gagne trade play out :rolleyes:

Clement signing? :rolleyes:

Drew? Lugo?

All this trade proves is that Minnesota sees something in the two prospects that makes them think they are getting full value, or they are complete idiots (my feeling).

Theo made amazing moves in 2004 and for that he will pretty much always have the benefit of the doubt in Boston, but don't give me the boy genius shit, he has made plenty of bad moves like evey other GM.

I never said that he was perfect.

Nobody could have predicted that Gagne would have been that bad. Clement got hurt, before that his first season was good and he made the all-star team. Its only been one season with Drew and Lugo, give it time.

The Boston deal is good because it fills several holes that the Twins have. If the NYY wanted Johan, they could have him. Hank Steinbrenner is fucking this up.

DestroVega

12-04-2007, 01:02 PM

I never said that he was perfect.

Nobody could have predicted that Gagne would have been that bad. Clement got hurt, before that his first season was good and he made the all-star team. Its only been one season with Drew and Lugo, give it time.

The Boston deal is good because it fills several holes that the Twins have. If the NYY wanted Johan, they could have him. Hank Steinbrenner is fucking this up.

I don't blame the Yankees for holding pat... the Twins want more from them than they are getting from the Sox... so forget it...

Gagne sucks though bro, I never thought they should toy with the Okijima/Papelbon duo.

jmaj43

12-04-2007, 01:25 PM

Not to highjack this thread, but I've read so much about Gagne being a mistake. Yeah he was fucking horrible for them but they still one the WS. The thing is that they only gave up Kason Gabbard for him who was a pretty much only a mop up guy or long reliever who was expendable.

In exchange for giving him up and then offering arbitration to Gagne who will walk because it is too low, they will get a draft pick from the Rangers. So in the end they may get something good out of this deal and short term they gave up nothing for a mess that cost them nothing last season except for a few games that didn't matter in the end.

Not a bad trade in my opinion. Now Renteria and Lugo on the other hand... those were terrible signings. But still no where near the busts some other GM's have made.

Out of LF

12-04-2007, 01:32 PM

The Red Sox look like the clear frontrunners. Consider the source however. I really hope the Twins take the 4 for 1 as I do not want to see Ellsbury traded.

12:50 p.m., from Peter Gammons
• The Twins and Red Sox are supposed to meet this afternoon to continue discussions on the Johan Santana deal. Sources indicate the Twins are still trying to decide between a 3-for-1 trade for center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, infielder Jed Lowrie and pitching prospect Justin Masterson and a 4-for-1 swap that substitutes lefty starter Jon Lester and center fielder Coco Crisp for Ellsbury.

MLaw

12-04-2007, 01:36 PM

gtiracer06

12-04-2007, 02:29 PM

this would be sick

KingOfAllMedia

12-04-2007, 02:37 PM

Curt Schilling's take on the possible Santana deal. (http://38pitches.com/2007/12/03/santana/)

Case a Beer

12-04-2007, 02:58 PM

The Santana Watch is on
# From ESPN's Buster Olney (3:12 p.m.): "The Yankees and Twins haven't talked at all so far Tuesday about Johan Santana, amid increasing indications Santana is going to be dealt to Boston. The Twins are also talking to the Angels, however."

# From the Providence Journal's Sean McAdam (2:28 p.m.): "This afternoon the Twins were meeting with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, who have jumped into the Santana negotiations at the eleventh hour. Previously, the Angels had been focusing on Florida Marlins third baseman Miguel Cabrera, but have been stuck trying to complete a deal. There is said to be a division among Angels executives over which player to pursue -- Cabrera or Santana. The Twins have told the Angels that Jared Weaver would have to be part of a deal for Santana to give Minnesota another young starter as part of the mix. Other names expected to be talked about include shortstop prospect Brandon Wood.

otto02

12-04-2007, 03:14 PM

f-ck the red sock to they donot need pitching the mets do The Mutts fuckin' blow. What else can you say about that team who blew that lead to the Phils.

otto02

12-04-2007, 03:17 PM

I don't blame the Yankees for holding pat... the Twins want more from them than they are getting from the Sox... so forget it...

Gagne sucks though bro, I never thought they should toy with the Okijima/Papelbon duo. In the end, it all worked out, didn't it?

otto02

12-04-2007, 03:20 PM

A total Red Sox fan talking about a guy you want to downplay... sorry, I have watched Hughes pitch every game and he is going to be great... not to mention is going to be way better than Buchholz.

The fact the Twins are going to give up Santana without getting Ellsbury is laughable, I will enjoy watching them suck-ass for the foreseeable future.

I'm fine with the Red Sox getting Santana... I never have to hear Theo talk about not having the money to compete with the Yankees again. You have to give them credit for basically only having to give up Lester for Santana, as their other guys here aren't going to be playing for the Sox anytime soon.

And Melky is a nice player, I am not touting him as something great... but I'll take him and his salary over Crisp and his.

Also, Hughes was the #1 prospect going into last year, now that he's in the majors he is off the list. We've all seen Hughes & Buccholz pitch & from our limited exposure to each you know Hughes will be "way better" than Buccholz? You must be a fuckin' genius. You oughta' be at the winter meetings instead of posting here.

SleepingWarrior

12-04-2007, 03:23 PM

That wasn't my point...

the point was, if the Twins don't get either Ellsbury or Buchholz from the Red Sox for Santana, they are taking a lesser deal than Hughes and Melky... so how can they demand Kennedy as well?

It's fine though, just pass on him.

I'd trust the Twins when it comes to evaluating talent. Remember, they got Santana as a Rule 5 player. Liriano, Nathan and Bonser for AJ Pierzynski... etc etc etc

otto02

12-04-2007, 03:26 PM

It's not as though the Sox are shipping a bunch of bums to Minny in either of the proposed deals. Minny stands to reap some real talent but, if the Sox do wind up with Santana without giving up Ellsbury or Buchholz, well, I guess that could be called a steal.

DestroVega

12-04-2007, 03:30 PM

I said before, I'll take Drew's playoff performance over A-Rod's, as for Gagne, he didn't cost the Sox any playoff games. How many playoff wins did Roger have.?

When did I bring up A-Rod or Clemens?... why deflect two bad signings with other bad signings..

I made a point, a valid one, and you argued that point with two things that don't pertain.

Let's focus.

DestroVega

12-04-2007, 03:32 PM

otto02

12-04-2007, 03:35 PM

No G.M is going to be perfect but the Bottom line is, 2 World Titles in 4 years. Isn't that the true measuring stick? Who gives a shit about Gagne, who'll they'll get a draft pick for, & any other piece that wasn't as good as hoped for. You Yankee fans oughta' be happy not every move was stellar or it'd be over before it started.

Petey Arms

12-04-2007, 03:36 PM

i hope he goes to the angels

DestroVega

12-04-2007, 03:37 PM

otto02

12-04-2007, 03:37 PM

i hope he goes to the angels He's not, The Angels need those prospects in any deal for Cabrera.

Case a Beer

12-04-2007, 04:20 PM

:jj:

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/BDD_JS_santanaclause_12.3.0.jpg

nuge67

12-04-2007, 08:21 PM

The longer this goes on, the more I think the Yanks should sit tight. Twins are trying to get way more talent from the Yanks then the Sox, total BS

nuge67

12-04-2007, 08:21 PM

KingOfAllMedia

12-04-2007, 08:52 PM

?

Last edited by nuge67 on 12-04-2007 at 07:28 PM

Still retarded, huh?

You've been saying for three years now "the Yanks need to go out and get Santana, he's an ace", now you're saying they should sit tight and not get him. Make up your fucking mind. :crazy: :rolleye2:

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 09:08 PM

You've been saying for three years now "the Yanks need to go out and get Santana, he's an ace", now you're saying they should sit tight and not get him. Make up your fucking mind. :crazy: :rolleye2:
:clap:

He has been saying how Johan will be a Yankee for over a year..Now you dont want him?

Bullshit. Why didnt you say this 2 weeks ago?

nuge67

12-04-2007, 09:31 PM

:clap:

He has been saying how Johan will be a Yankee for over a year..Now you dont want him?

Bullshit. Why didnt you say this 2 weeks ago?

KingOfAllJews, thanks for posting KingOfAllMults statement, all I am saying is the Twins want a lot more from the Yanks then they do from the Sox. The Yanks by far offered the better package but the Twins want even more, FUCK THAT

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 09:33 PM

KingOfAllJews, thanks for posting KingOfAllMults statement, all I am saying is the Twins want a lot more from the Yanks then they do from the Sox. The Yanks by far offered the better package but the Twins want even more, FUCK THAT

The Yankees offered a better package? According to who?

Not anybody who is paid to evaluate baseball talent :rolleyes:

nuge67

12-04-2007, 09:36 PM

The Yankees offered a better package? According to who?

Not anybody who is paid to evaluate baseball talent :rolleyes:

Oh really, Gammons, Steve Phillips, ESPN, SI, etc..........

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 09:37 PM

Oh really, Gammons, Steve Phillips, ESPN, SI, etc..........

Can I see a quote or rumor? Any type of link would be great to see. :D

oneldef

12-04-2007, 09:47 PM

Can I see a quote or rumor? Any type of link would be great to see. :D

KOAW, don't bother talking w/ these guys...you can tell they don't know much about baseball. Most of these clowns don't know anything about Lowrie, Masterson, or Kalish. These are the types of players that possibly round out this deal.

A trade is also about need, salary, and how many "major league ready" players are involved. It's not just an immediate talent argument. And even if it was, yankee fans don't have a clue about that stuff either.

The one thing that is evident right now is that Theo is teaching Hank a lesson in negotiating. Hank is clearly a loud mouthed moron who has no idea what is going on. I love the guy.

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 09:59 PM

KOAW, don't bother talking w/ these guys...you can tell they don't know much about baseball. Most of these clowns don't know anything about Lowrie, Masterson, or Kalish. These are the types of players that possibly round out this deal.

A trade is also about need, salary, and how many "major league ready" players are involved. It's not just an immediate talent argument. And even if it was, yankee fans don't have a clue about that stuff either.

The one thing that is evident right now is that Theo is teaching Hank a lesson in negotiating. Hank is clearly a loud mouthed moron who has no idea what is going on. I love the guy.

Hank is the greatest thing to happen to Yankee haters and the NY media in a long time. Everytime he opens his mouth he sounds dumber then the last time.

It sucks for guys like bpalm, destroyvega, dave24s and lenny who are Yankee fans, but are realists. They dont talk about the Yankees and baseball in general the way guys like Nuge and Pussy talk. To them, everything the Yankees do is positive and they need to have an all star at every position. They do not realize the type of team they had when they were winning world series.

But hey, lets be honest. It really only makes baseball season that much enjoyable :D

jobbey

12-04-2007, 10:05 PM

KingOfAllJews, thanks for posting KingOfAllMults statement, all I am saying is the Twins want a lot more from the Yanks then they do from the Sox. The Yanks by far offered the better package but the Twins want even more, FUCK THAT

go start your "its over yakees fans" thread early.

:bigup:

DestroVega

12-04-2007, 10:09 PM

Well I'm a Yankee "realist" and still think if the Twins don't get Ellsbury or Buchholz in this deal they are out of their minds.

But I like my players so if the Yanks don't get Santana, I don't really care.

jobbey

12-04-2007, 10:12 PM

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 10:14 PM

it really boggles the mind that he can really go to Boston and Ellsbury and Buchholz wont have to go..

Billy Batts

12-04-2007, 10:45 PM

Anyone else think it's strange that Boston is announcing every move they make. Theo is making sure everyone knows they are taking a break to eat for a few hours. Boston is usual quiet about this type of stuff. And why wouldn't they hammer out the deal over dinner like every other businessman would do. Instead he's dragging his feet and making sure everyone knows it, almost inviting some other team to swoop in and take Santana instead of going for the Jugular getting the deal done.

Could it be because Theo got caught trying to run the price up on Santana and now that he's the only one left at the table he's not sure what to do?

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 10:47 PM

nuge67

12-04-2007, 10:56 PM

you are right sir. if this goes through i will have my xmass present early.

So you are happy paying Santana 25 million per over 6 years?

nuge67

12-04-2007, 10:58 PM

I think this is out of Theo's hands right now. I think he is willing to make the deal and needs Minnesota to sign off on it right now.

I am sure he is updating people on what he does because he is being stalked...

And you know all this because, YOU ARE A METS FAN!!

I love that the Yanks drove the price up on the Sox, will cost them 20-25 million per year to keep him........

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 11:01 PM

And you know all this because, YOU ARE A METS FAN!!

I love that the Yanks drove the price up on the Sox, will cost them 20-25 million per year to keep him........

How did the Yankees drive up the price?

Havent you been complaining that the Yankees package is better? Therefore what did the Yankees drive up?

Dude, can you at least make some sense...

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 11:02 PM

So you are happy paying Santana 25 million per over 6 years?

The Yankees only wish they could pay him 25 million per over 6 years....

Why else were they begging Minnesota to take Hughes and Melky?

jobbey

12-04-2007, 11:04 PM

So you are happy paying Santana 25 million per over 6 years?

hes only 28 hell be 34 when the deal is done... pitchers last longer than fielders. especially this ace.

nuge67

12-04-2007, 11:05 PM

How did the Yankees drive up the price?

Havent you been complaining that the Yankees package is better? Therefore what did the Yankees drive up?

Dude, can you at least make some sense...

It is obvious that the Twins are trying to rape the yanks because head to head, the Yanks offered the best package.

And with the Yanks in the bidding war, Santana will ask for more money.........

Red Sox are trying to get all stars everywhere, just like the Yanks were trying to.

Best is, that Sox payroll will keep rising and rising

nuge67

12-04-2007, 11:07 PM

hes only 28 hell be 34 when the deal is done... pitchers last longer than fielders. especially this ace.

HELLO, 25 MILLION, so Beckett will want a new contarct as well at say, 27 million per

KingOfAllWhites

12-04-2007, 11:07 PM

It is obvious that the Twins are trying to rape the yanks because head to head, the Yanks offered the best package.

And with the Yanks in the bidding war, Santana will ask for more money.........

Red Sox are trying to get all stars everywhere, just like the Yanks were trying to.

Best is, that Sox payroll will keep rising and rising

You dont have one fact to back up anything you say.

Typical Nuge, but I am too smart for this shit buddy!

You know that........MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!

jobbey

12-04-2007, 11:10 PM

HELLO, 25 MILLION, so Beckett will want a new contarct as well at say, 27 million per

dont think hell get 25 mill depends on how he plays through his contract. id pay em. rather pay 2 pitchers that are 28 big contracts then 2 old foggies.

Petey Arms

12-04-2007, 11:32 PM

Even though they're telling everyone in the media who will listen, the Yankees have not informed the Twins that they're out of the race for Johan Santana, according to Minneapolis Star-Tribune.

All indications are that the two sides didn't talk at all today, but as most figured all along, the Yankees would probably still be willing to do a deal if the Twins came back to them. In the meantime, more late-night negotiations with the Red Sox are in store for tonight. La Velle E. Neal III doesn't believe a deal is going to get done during the session.

Source: Minneapolis Star Tribune

Petey Arms

12-04-2007, 11:37 PM

The Rangers met with the Twins on Tuesday and it's believed Johan Santana was at least briefly discussed.

It doesn't look like the Rangers are serious contenders for Santana. The Twins would probably ask for Brandon McCarthy, top pitching prospect Eric Hurley and Elvis Andrus, the young shortstop picked up in the Mark Teixeira deal. They shouldn't have as much interest as other teams in catchers Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Taylor Teagarden.

Source: Rangers.mlb.com

Petey Arms

12-05-2007, 12:37 AM

The Boston Herald indicates that the Red Sox and Twins may be through talking for the night.

Neither the Twins nor the Red Sox seem to be feeling much sense of urgency here. The Red Sox still don't actually need to make the deal, and the Twins may figure better offers will come along later, though they risk upsetting Johan Santana if they continue to leave everything up in the air. The Herald is also reporting that the Red Sox have told Ryan Kalish’s agent that his client’s name never came up in talks with the Twins, even though he was rumored for most of the day to be in Boston's new 5-for-1 proposal.

Source: Boston Herald

LennyD23

12-05-2007, 12:42 AM

red sox are trying to buy another championship.

yambag

12-05-2007, 04:35 AM

red sox are trying to buy another championship. championship :D

Pussah2

12-05-2007, 06:07 AM

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12052007/img/back120507.jpg

Pussah2

12-05-2007, 06:08 AM

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/12/05/gal_backpage_1205.jpg

EMFBoss

12-05-2007, 06:59 AM

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/12/05/gal_backpage_1205.jpg

Oh man, I can see it now.....If Santana goes to Boston, Cashman is going to hear it all year about the trade..

MLaw

12-05-2007, 07:00 AM

red sox are trying to buy another championship. well, I don't think they are for rent :p

DestroVega

12-05-2007, 07:01 AM

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/12/05/gal_backpage_1205.jpg

That whole situation described there doesn't even make sense.... wouldn't the owner not want the payroll rising?

It's not Cashman's money...

Case a Beer

12-05-2007, 07:04 AM

the term penny-pinching Yankees is laughable.

KingOfAllWhites

12-05-2007, 07:23 AM

That whole situation described there doesn't even make sense.... wouldn't the owner not want the payroll rising?

It's not Cashman's money...

:clap:

The whole situation is bullshit. Why didnt Cashman go public and say it was not worth the money 2 or 3 weeks ago?

I truely believe Cashman is officially a puppet and big Hank Stein is running the show

DestroVega

12-05-2007, 07:26 AM

:clap:

The whole situation is bullshit. Why didnt Cashman go public and say it was not worth the money 2 or 3 weeks ago?

I truely believe Cashman is officially a puppet and big Hank Stein is running the show

Hank is without question calling the shots...

I'm kind of burned out on Santana, I wish it would just get done and people could focus elsewhere.

KingOfAllWhites

12-05-2007, 07:29 AM

Hank is without question calling the shots...

I'm kind of burned out on Santana, I wish it would just get done and people could focus elsewhere.

Hey, you were one of the few from the start who did not want Johan.

Guys like Pussy and Cashman are a joke. They have been salivating at the mouth for them for month and months. Now that they know the Twins have no intrest in their package, they come out and say they dont want him anyway and was not worth the $$.

So according to Cashman, Clemens is worth $18m for 4 months but Johan is not worth $25m :rolleyes:

It is truely a joke...

DestroVega

12-05-2007, 07:31 AM

Hey, you were one of the few from the start who did not want Johan.

Guys like Pussy and Cashman are a joke. They have been salivating at the mouth for them for month and months. Now that they know the Twins have no intrest in their package, they come out and say they dont want him anyway and was not worth the $$.

So according to Cashman, Clemens is worth $18m for 4 months but Johan is not worth $25m :rolleyes:

It is truely a joke...

Well, they like the package if Kennedy is in it, it's just too much... giving up 2 of your best 3 pitching prospects is steep.

I don't believe the Yankees care one iota about paying Santana, it's about trading too many guys.

Petey Arms

12-05-2007, 08:16 AM

According to the New York Daily News, the Yankees turned down a trade for Johan Santana that would have sent Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Jeff Marquez and Mitch Hilligoss to Minnesota.

Previous speculation was that the Yankees balked at including Ian Kennedy along with Hughes and Cabrera, but the newspaper reports that general manager Brian Cashman turned down a deal that didn't include Kennedy at all. According to the report, Cashman "never wanted to do the Santana deal in the first place" and became even less interested once Andy Pettitte was re-signed. If true, that would explain why Hank Steinbrenner stuck to his self-imposed deadline and might indicate that the Yankees are truly out of the Santana mix.

Source: New York Daily News

LennyD23

12-05-2007, 08:57 AM

championship :D
so now i can use all your lame arguments, and you type "championship" big grin?

admittance of hypocrisy.

Petey Arms

12-05-2007, 10:15 AM

Appearing on ESPN News Wednesday morning, ESPN.com's Keith Law reported that the Twins have again reached out to the Mets, Angels and Dodgers regarding Johan Santana.

The Mets might struggle to beat the Red Sox's reported offerings, but the Dodgers and Angels would have little trouble putting together very attractive packages for Santana if they're serious about acquiring him. With the Yankees' interest potentially gone, the Twins may simply be trying to find another team to play the Red Sox against.

Source: Metsblog.com

Petey Arms

12-05-2007, 12:02 PM

According to ESPN's Peter Gammons, there's a sense that the Twins will hold on to Johan Santana
for now.

That's been the general feeling all morning. The least they could do is come out and say they've rejected Boston's proposal, providing some sort of conclusion to the current round of talks. This isn't something that's going to go away until Santana is eventually dealt or agrees to a contract extension with the Twins. If anything, the Twins have even more incentive to move him than they did yesterday, as the Miguel Cabrera addition in Detroit would seem to give them less of a chance of making the postseason next year.

Source: ESPN.com

Pussah2

12-05-2007, 12:13 PM

peter gammons blog:

12:15 p.m., from Peter Gammons
• Don't expect to see a Twins-Red Sox or Twins-Yankees whopper. The sense is now that Minnesota will hold onto Johan Santana.

Pussah2

12-05-2007, 12:37 PM

Jon Heyman on WFAN said teh Mets have jumped back in and Reyes is not part of the deal. Word is the Twins are underwhelmed with the red sox offer.

DestroVega

12-05-2007, 12:38 PM

They now say Minnisota doesn't think the Red Sox package is good enough without Ellsbury... maybe someone has a brain over there.

KingOfAllWhites

12-05-2007, 12:48 PM

Jon Heyman on WFAN said teh Mets have jumped back in and Reyes is not part of the deal. Word is the Twins are underwhelmed with the red sox offer.
It'll never happen...mets are not that lucky :rolleyes:

SleepingWarrior

12-05-2007, 01:16 PM

They now say Minnisota doesn't think the Red Sox package is good enough without Ellsbury... maybe someone has a brain over there.

:rolleyes: The Twins execs are actually quite capable and adept people at what they do. If anything they are playing this quite well by making sure to maximize any trades they will do concerning Santana. We aren't exactly NY or Boston in terms of how much leeway we are given but considering their payroll they've done much better than 25 other teams have over the span of the 2000's.

Petey Arms

12-05-2007, 03:32 PM

The Mets are trying to jump back into the hunt for Johan Santana, but they're not offering Jose Reyes, according to SI.com's Jon Heyman.

The Mets have Fernando Martinez, Carlos Gomez, Mike Pelfrey, Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber to offer, but Heyman doesn't think they can get a deal done without Reyes. He just told WFAN that he believes a Santana trade with the Red Sox is still very much within reach.

Source: SI.com

otto02

12-05-2007, 03:39 PM

red sox are trying to buy another championship. That's idiotic. When you offer players you developed for known talent it is not buying anything. If they were trying to sign him as a free agent, yea, but they're dealing for him. Totaly different.

Apoc13

12-05-2007, 03:46 PM

the yankees have signed 3 players for a combined 400 million....yeah, they're clearly backing off trying to buy championships

KingOfAllWhites

12-05-2007, 03:50 PM

Their own 3 players for 400 million.

2 of them could have been signed for cheaper ,if they gave them the deal before the season started.

The third one they did win the bidding war...problem is it was against themself.

Petey Arms

12-05-2007, 03:52 PM

Listen to This

MLBTradeRumors.com, citing a trusted New York sportswriter, says the Twins have attempted to initiate talks on a three-year deal that would net them Dan Haren, send Johan Santana to the
Mets and Jose Reyes to the A's.

It's a huge long shot, but it is the kind of deal the Twins should have been aiming for in the first place if they wanted to stay in contention. This rumor has the A's also sending Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to the Mets, while getting Kevin Mulvey back. Hector Pellot would go to the Twins.

Source: MLB Trade Rumors

KingOfAllWhites

12-05-2007, 03:52 PM

No chance that would ever happen. Talk about a blockbuster!

Apoc13

12-05-2007, 03:54 PM

yeah? how did that Gagne trade play out :rolleyes:

Clement signing? :rolleyes:

Drew? Lugo?

All this trade proves is that Minnesota sees something in the two prospects that makes them think they are getting full value, or they are complete idiots (my feeling).

Theo made amazing moves in 2004 and for that he will pretty much always have the benefit of the doubt in Boston, but don't give me the boy genius shit, he has made plenty of bad moves like evey other GM.

i'll give the sox spin on those deals....

gagne?...i'm not sure what his deal was...there was no real excuse for his sucking like he did...i was happy that theo made the deal

clement? he went to an all star game in his only full season...he got hurt...but when he was there he pitched ok.

drew and lugo both had better second halves...and they still have a couple years left on their contracts....get back to me when their contracts are over

KingOfAllMedia

12-05-2007, 03:56 PM

I read they were talking to Gagne to resign him. :scratch:

I guess his stock has really fallen, there has to be SOME team that would want him! :rolleye2:

KingOfAllWhites

12-05-2007, 03:57 PM

Nobody knew Lugo would have a season the way he did, NOBODY!

Last winter, I wanted that guy on my team. I would have been willing to give him the same contract Boston gave him.

EastBayLoon

12-05-2007, 04:40 PM

As an a's fan I would gladly get rid of crosby and DJ.

I hate to see haren go but for reyes!!!

What does anyone know abotu kevin mulvey??

BTW I would be surprised if the mets traded Reyes....

Petey Arms

12-05-2007, 05:04 PM

Though he did admit that he heard the Mets were back in on the left-hander, agent Peter Greenberg doesn't believe a Johan Santana deal is close.

"[We’re] just waiting and watching ‘SportsCenter’ and reading what you guys are writing," Greenberg told a group of reporters, including those from the New York Post. Greenberg added that he didn't think the Yankees were involved at all. He wasn't willing to say whether Santana has any preferred destinations.

Source: New York Post

KingOfAllWhites

12-05-2007, 05:06 PM

Mulvey is another mets product who is hyped.You know what that means though....bust

EastBayLoon

12-05-2007, 05:14 PM

Haren was an ok pitcher with the cards and was an absoulte stud the last 3 years.

I am worried that this mulvey kid will turn out like dan meyer did for oakland though

SleepingWarrior

12-05-2007, 05:20 PM

Apoc13

12-05-2007, 05:22 PM

Nobody knew Lugo would have a season the way he did, NOBODY!

Last winter, I wanted that guy on my team. I would have been willing to give him the same contract Boston gave him.

actually i have never understood the sox interest in lugo....i wanted cabrera before they they got him and couldn't understand why they got rid of him...but at the same time i'm not yet sold that lugo is a bust

and that's part of the reason i can see the sox doing very well this season...lugo, drew, manny and varitek all had less than stellar seasons....and if they can pick it up at all they will make up for lesser seasons from pedroia and lowell...not to mention if ellsbury is still around he should put up better numbers than crisp

KingOfAllWhites

12-05-2007, 05:23 PM

I have to be honest. I used to know his father. His father owns a insulation business and was a tenant for the R E Mgmt company I worked for.

I have a little bias

nuge67

12-05-2007, 05:46 PM

actually i have never understood the sox interest in lugo....i wanted cabrera before they they got him and couldn't understand why they got rid of him...but at the same time i'm not yet sold that lugo is a bust

and that's part of the reason i can see the sox doing very well this season...lugo, drew, manny and varitek all had less than stellar seasons....and if they can pick it up at all they will make up for lesser seasons from pedroia and lowell...not to mention if ellsbury is still around he should put up better numbers than crisp

I can see the Sox not doing very well. Beckett had a career year while the year before he got SMOKED. Youlk and Lowell had career years, Papi and CUrt are older, everyone knows what Dice Gay has and who is not to say that Manny, lugo, drew abd Capt V's best years are behind them?

And Ellsbury has what, 33 MLB regular season games in him? Hardly a full season or wear and tear

nuge67

12-05-2007, 05:48 PM

That's idiotic. When you offer players you developed for known talent it is not buying anything. If they were trying to sign him as a free agent, yea, but they're dealing for him. Totaly different.

Excuse me, they have to BUY Santana for 25 MILLION per year for 6 years!! Guess what, Beckett is going to want to redo his contract, he deserves more then Santana...

SleepingWarrior

12-05-2007, 05:49 PM

I can see the Sox not doing very well. Beckett had a career year while the year before he got SMOKED. Youlk and Lowell had career years, Papi and CUrt are older, everyone knows what Dice Gay has and who is not to say that Manny, lugo, drew abd Capt V's best years are behind them?

And Ellsbury has what, 33 MLB regular season games in him? Hardly a full season or wear and tear

:rolleyes:

Now I see why no one here takes you seriously.

Apoc13

12-05-2007, 05:49 PM

DestroVega

12-05-2007, 05:57 PM

the yankees have signed 3 players for a combined 400 million....yeah, they're clearly backing off trying to buy championships

their own players though... if the Red Sox gave Manny another three years, $60 million I would think they were smart.

"buy" championship is what Arizona did in 2001 and Florida did in 1997... Red Sox have never done that.

DestroVega

12-05-2007, 06:02 PM

otto02

12-05-2007, 06:02 PM

Excuse me, they have to BUY Santana for 25 MILLION per year for 6 years!! Guess what, Beckett is going to want to redo his contract, he deserves more then Santana... It's still a trade FIRST, idiot. Right?

nuge67

12-05-2007, 06:07 PM

It's still a trade FIRST, idiot. Right?

But the trade will not go through UNLESS the Sox BUY Santana for 25 million for 6 years you silly young boy.

AGAIN, the trade will not be completed unless Santana gets 25 million per......That to me is, BUYING!!!

otto02

12-05-2007, 06:09 PM

nuge67

12-05-2007, 06:14 PM

:rolleyes:

Now I see why no one here takes you seriously.

sleepy,

Those were facts

nuge67

12-05-2007, 06:15 PM

their own players though... if the Red Sox gave Manny another three years, $60 million I would think they were smart.

"buy" championship is what Arizona did in 2001 and Florida did in 1997... Red Sox have never done that.

I think after the 2008 or 2009 season, the Yanks unload 98 MILLION in contracts, lol.........

EastBayLoon

12-05-2007, 06:15 PM

their own players though... if the Red Sox gave Manny another three years, $60 million I would think they were smart.

"buy" championship is what Arizona did in 2001 and Florida did in 1997... Red Sox have never done that.

HA HA HA HA HA........

So you are telling me big papi, manny, curt, beckett, lowell, coco, dice k were all home grown???

Fucking red sox fans are more dilusional then yankee fans.

DestroVega

12-05-2007, 06:18 PM

HA HA HA HA HA........

So you are telling me big papi, manny, curt, beckett, lowell, coco, dice k were all home grown???

Fucking red sox fans are more dilusional then yankee fans.

I'm a Yankee fan though... and I never said those guys were homegrown...

huh?

EastBayLoon

12-05-2007, 06:19 PM

were you saying that the red sox did not "buy" a championship??

or were you being sarcastic??

DestroVega

12-05-2007, 06:24 PM

were you saying that the red sox did not "buy" a championship??

Are were you being sarcastic??

To me, "buying" a championship is signing a bunch a FA's within 2 years all at the same time, and then winning, and usually, dumping them.

The Red Sox didn't do that... they traded for two of their starters, got their 3rd baseman in one of those trades, signed Ortiz when he wasn't close to being a star yet, "bought" Manny, but so long ago I can't count it, and have three pivotal that are homegrown in their closer, 1B and 2B...

Their only "bought" players coming into the year had awful years, but some clutch hits in the playoffs...

I dunno man, I don't consider that "buying" a title.

MLaw

12-05-2007, 06:36 PM

But the trade will not go through UNLESS the Sox BUY Santana for 25 million for 6 years you silly young boy.

AGAIN, the trade will not be completed unless Santana gets 25 million per......That to me is, BUYING!!! what did the Yankees do with A-Rod? Jesus Nuge. If the SOX sign Santana to a contract (if they make the trade) they will be paying him market value. The way you talk, they should just make the trade, and then let him walk away, after th 2008 season. Take the "I hate Boston" glasses off for a minute

As for this "home grown" bullshit, this isn't fucking, Uncle Pappy's farm, what difference does it make where a player comes from?

nuge67

12-05-2007, 06:44 PM

what did the Yankees do with A-Rod? Jesus Nuge. If the SOX sign Santana to a contract (if they make the trade) they will be paying him market value. The way you talk, they should just make the trade, and then let him walk away, after th 2008 season. Take the "I hate Boston" glasses off for a minute

As for this "home grown" bullshit, this isn't fucking, Uncle Pappy's farm, what difference does it make where a player comes from?

Sweetie, I know you hate me but I still adore you, all I was saying was otto said they were not buying Santana, they were trading for him, all I pointed out was that the trade would not be completed UNLESS the Sox paid him over 20 million per year for 6 years, to me, that is calling BUYING a player

Apoc13

12-05-2007, 06:48 PM

I think after the 2008 or 2009 season, the Yanks unload 98 MILLION in contracts, lol.........

unfortunately they will have added 200 million more

nuge67

12-05-2007, 06:50 PM

unfortunately they will have added 200 million more

At last we agree on something, but with the new stadium, suites and A Rod closing in on the home run record, Yanks can easily afford a 400+ million payroll.........

MLaw

12-05-2007, 06:53 PM

Sweetie, I know you hate me but I still adore you, all I was saying was otto said they were not buying Santana, they were trading for him, all I pointed out was that the trade would not be completed UNLESS the Sox paid him over 20 million per year for 6 years, to me, that is calling BUYING a player First, I don't hate you, but the sweetie, is a bit condescending. As for extending his contract, as i said, that's paying him his value, and locking in a potential free agent. Look Nuge, your argument makes no sense.

The Yankees bought Clemens last year, they paid a player who was in "retirement" to play for their team, in order to win a championship.

The Sox are trying to make a trade for a player, extending his contract is just good business. Tell me Nuge, if they make the trade, and don't extend his contract, then sign him once he elects free agency after the season. are they buying him then? Did they "buy" Schilling, or Lowell? You really need to stop making this silly argument.

otto02

12-05-2007, 10:55 PM

First, I don't hate you, but the sweetie, is a bit condescending. As for extending his contract, as i said, that's paying him his value, and locking in a potential free agent. Look Nuge, your argument makes no sense.

The Yankees bought Clemens last year, they paid a player who was in "retirement" to play for their team, in order to win a championship.

The Sox are trying to make a trade for a player, extending his contract is just good business. Tell me Nuge, if they make the trade, and don't extend his contract, then sign him once he elects free agency after the season. are they buying him then? Did they "buy" Schilling, or Lowell? You really need to stop making this silly argument. Thank you, Spider.

yambag

12-06-2007, 05:31 AM

according to one top National League executive, has made the Tigers the early favorites to win the American League pennant in 2008. "But if the Red Sox get Santana," he said of the defending World Series champions, "the Yankees will be playing for the wild card for the next five years."
:D

yambag

12-06-2007, 05:37 AM

STUGE has been saying the Skanks will get Santana now that his dream is over he is showing
true colors as a Fucking clown. :D :D

EMFBoss

12-06-2007, 06:59 AM

Sox not close on Santana

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/12/06/sox_not_close_on_santana/

KingOfAllWhites

12-06-2007, 07:36 AM

STUGE has been saying the Skanks will get Santana now that his dream is over he is showing
true colors as a Fucking clown. :D :D

:lol:

he has been salivating over Johan for over a year :rofl:

LennyD23

12-06-2007, 12:18 PM

HA HA HA HA HA........

So you are telling me big papi, manny, curt, beckett, lowell, coco, dice k were all home grown???

Fucking red sox fans are more dilusional then yankee fans. :lol:

LennyD23

12-06-2007, 12:22 PM