Baseball and union representatives could meet as soon as Thursday to discuss which teams will be eliminated, possibly before the new season starts next spring.

A day after owners voted to get rid of two clubs - with Montreal and Minnesota the likeliest - former commissioner Fay Vincent criticized owners for making their decision without consulting the union.

Baseball's labor contract expired at midnight Wednesday, and talks about shrinking the league appear likely to get caught up in negotiations for a new collective bargaining agreement. The union maintains owners need the permission of players to eliminate teams; management disagrees, saying it has to bargain only on the mechanics of contraction, such as dispersing players.

"The lawyers in baseball have been so wrong in labor matters," said Vincent, baseball's commissioner from 1989 until 1992. "It probably puts baseball off on the wrong foot, and that's too bad."

During the World Series, management asked that players be available for a meeting Thursday, one person familiar with the talks said Wednesday, on the condition he not be identified. Several players were expected to attend, but there was a chance the meeting could be scrapped at the last minute, the person said.

I think it's just another example of how baseball, and all 'professional (read:not 100% legitimate) have gone to shit. The only question I ask is" Only 2 teams? I can name at least 5 that should be eliminated.

Tampa Bay, KC, Florida, Milwalkee...

They never should had expanded with the 4 new teams in the 1st place.

I am so disgusted with baseball. They just want state paid stadiums thats whats behind this contraction. No longer can they threaten to move teams cause all the markets are full. Its a fraeking shame. The Twins and Expos ave been around for over 20 years. You want more attendence, win fucking games. You dont see this problem in football cause tehy have revenue sharing and salary caps. None of this big market/small market crap.

As long as the players union is around, there will never be a salary cap, PERIOD. This is good for baseball. I agree more teams should be eliminated... TB, FLA., MIN and MON are my picks but the players union want allow that either (understandable) but getting rid of two of these headaches will help, it'll give a team like Pittsburgh (worst team in the league) a chance to draft a great player (If they agree on a dispersal draft), even though, the'll probably trade him because their to fuckin cheap to pay him but at least when they trade him, the'll get some good prospects!!!

Originally posted by asteve5:
As long as the players union is around, there will never be a salary cap, PERIOD. This is good for baseball. I agree more teams should be eliminated... TB, FLA., MIN and MON are my picks but the players union want allow that either (understandable) but getting rid of two of these headaches will help, it'll give a team like Pittsburgh (worst team in the league) a chance to draft a great player (If they agree on a dispersal draft), even though, the'll probably trade him because their to fuckin cheap to pay him but at least when they trade him, the'll get some good prospects!!!


I'm curious. What does a player's union have to do with a non-salary cap? NFL and NBA both have player's unions and salary caps. It really just has to do with owners and leverage.

The fact is, the owners are in this for the money, period. In football they'll throw the term "parity" around all day. They'll say the salary cap is to promote competition in the NFL. The bottomline is its to keep player salaries down. Highest paid player in the NFL? Randy Moss. Makes around 8 mil per year. What does A-rod make? 25 million a year?

The NFL was able to impose a salary cap simply because the league is so strong, and the owners have firm control of the league, and a great relationship with the players association. Even they narrowly avoided player strikes when they imposed their salary cap. They made up to the players by giving them unrestricted free agency.

MLB however, was almost killed by the strike back in the 90's. The owners would LOVE to impose a salary cap, yet they know the players would strike again, and another strike just might kill baseball, and owner's income.

In all these leagues there one thing to remember. Its all about the owners. All the things you see about Commissioners, committees, etc is all BS paperwork. The major league baseball commissioner is supposed to be non-partisan and reign for life. He was given such power so that "owners" couldn't sway his opinions in certain ways. So, what happened to former Commish Fay Vincent in the 90's when he did a few things that some of the owners didn't like? They threw him out of his "permanent" office, and Bud Selig, owner of the the Brewers, took over as Commish. Hmmmm.

By the way, F-baseball, F-basketball. NFL is the only sport.

Originally posted by Purity Knight:
I'm curious. What does a player's union have to do with a non-salary cap? NFL and NBA both have player's unions and salary caps. It really just has to do with owners and leverage.

The MLB player's union is there for one reason, to make sure the'll be no salary cap, owners want it, it'll save them money but the'll never have it because of what you just said: the players will strike and then good-bye, the end of baseball!!!

I still love baseball, it's by far my favorite sport but I can't stand the fuckin politics that goes along with it!!!

- Lawyers will meet again Monday to discuss the legal fight by baseball players against eliminating teams, and a top union official called the owners' stance "preposterous."

In Chicago, a management labor lawyer told general managers that contraction would take place by Dec. 15, according to a high-ranking team official who spoke on the condition he not be identified.

The lawyer, Frank Coonelly, said clubs would draft players from the eliminated franchises in the reverse order of their 2001 won-lost records and that management did not intend to honor no-trade clauses, the team official said.

"To the extent that anything like that is out there, that would be a contemplated proposal," said Rob Manfred, the owners' top labor lawyer.

Owners voted Tuesday - exactly 100 days before the start of spring training - to eliminate two teams before next season. While no teams were chosen, Montreal and Minnesota are the leading candidates, with Florida, Oakland and Tampa Bay also possibilities.

If the Expos and Twins are eliminated, Montreal outfielder Vladimir Guerrero would be the likely first pick, going either to Pittsburgh or Tampa Bay, which both went 62-100. Twins shortstop Cristian Guzman and pitchers Eric Milton and Brad Radke would be other top picks, along with Montreal pitcher Javier Vazquez.

Gene Orza, the union's No. 2 official, said Friday that management negotiators previously informed the players' association that it was too late in the year to eliminate teams.

"What we were told in late September was that it was not possible to do it 2002," Orza said. "Our basic argument is that the basic agreement and its related agreements read as a whole cannot possibly be read to mean that on Nov. 7 you can announce that two teams aren't going to be playing anymore on Feb. 15. That's an inherently preposterous proposition."

Manfred declined to comment on Orza's remarks.

The union filed a grievance Wednesday arguing the move violated its labor contract, and it appears likely arbitrator Shyam Das will have to decide. Owners claim they have the unilateral right to fold franchises, but admit they must bargain over the aftereffects, such as dispersing players.

"We're going to meet on Monday to discuss the processing of the grievance," Orza said. "Hopefully, we can get this on the fast track."

The sides met Thursday, a day after the expiration of the labor contract signed in March 1997, and management lawyers outlined their ideas without going into specifics.

"We have to get a proposal on the effects," Orza said. "Our effects bargaining is going to go on simultaneously with the processing of the grievance."

Baseball commissioner Bud Selig says he intends to pick the two candidates for contraction by the end of this month. It's still unclear how long negotiations will take.

"You can't negotiate the number of hours in a day," Orza said.

In Washington, Rep. John Conyers Jr. again criticized baseball owners. Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, and Sen. Paul Wellstone, a Minnesota Democrat, intend introduce legislation next week to strip baseball of its antitrust exemption.

"I was shocked and amazed to learn that less than 48 hours after one of the greatest World Series in history, the owners decided to cut the heart out of the baseball fans of America by agreeing to the first franchise elimination in more than 100 years," Conyers said. "I expect that our legislation will enjoy widespread support. Congress is not going to sit on their hands while a bunch of billionaires conspire with each other to cut jobs and threaten our cities and states."

Rep. Earl Blumenauer, an Oregon Democrat, introduced legislation Thursday aimed at giving communities more of a say if owners try to eliminate or relocate teams. The "Give Fans a Chance" bill would require teams wanting to leave or fold to give at least 180 days notice prior to the start of the next season.

Citizens would have time to weigh in with public comment. The league would have to respond if a local group came up with an offer to buy the team.

all is good now

all is good now

Wow, you are a total douchbag.

Bringing back to "life" a 6 year old thread. Don't you have a cock to suck cocksucker?

didnt the league go through this recently and they ended up doing nothing

The MLB player's union is there for one reason, to make sure the'll be no salary cap, owners want it, it'll save them money but the'll never have it because of what you just said: the players will strike and then good-bye, the end of baseball!!!

I still love baseball, it's by far my favorite sport but I can't stand the fuckin politics that goes along with it!!!

You know nothing. Good thing your account is on hold.

all is good now

I'm glad we get your opinion...

6 years later.

Fuck off, douche.

Holy old fucking thread...

Dumb bastard.