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| yamahafan1000 |
This is the type of marxist drivel that will destroy this country. Especially as the percentage of the population that is minority increases. The author clearly understands the problem (you can tell by the last sentence) but his editors will not allow him to speak of it outright. More school tax dollars pissed away at yet another failed study for a problem whose solution has been known for a hundred years.
For those of you willing to look beyond the lies, here is the answer:
http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/fa...npdfs/PPPL1.pdf
The article:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/dr...4685958,00.html
On Point: The ''Whiteness'' trap
STORY TOOLS
Email this story | Print
Vincent Carroll
email | bioMay 10, 2006
First of two parts
If any school district in Colorado can turn around second-rate achievement among many black and Hispanic students, it should be Cherry Creek. It has the resources, tradition of excellence, quality staff, first-rate facilities, and community confidence required to pull off the feat. And it has a smart pro at the helm in Superintendent Monte Moses. The stars are aligned.
Yet in its quest to eliminate the achievement gap, Cherry Creek has embraced, oddly, a program that is at best offensive, and potentially an obstacle to long-term progress. It's the brainchild of Glenn E. Singleton of the Pacific Educational Group in California, a man with a one-word explanation for low-scoring blacks and Hispanics: racism.
"It is our belief that the most devastating factor contributing to the lowered achievement of students of color is institutionalized racism," Singleton writes (with co-author Curtis Linton) in his recent book Courageous Conversations About Race. White teachers (and minority teachers co-opted into the white power structure) stymie black and Hispanic students because they fail to understand their cultures and how daily racial oppression affects their outlook. They also push a curriculum tooled for whites, and are ignorant of the special ways that blacks and Hispanics communicate.
"We will shine the light on racial dominance to uncover how Whiteness challenges the performance of students of color while shaping and reinforcing the racial perspective of White children," Singleton and Linton promise.
Cherry Creek not only paid Singleton's outfit a six-figure fee for advice, Moses wrote an endorsement blurb for the back of his book. And the program of "equity teams" and "courageous conversations" is being implemented in district schools.
In a recent interview, the superintendent was at pains to emphasize that Singleton's program was only one of several initiatives in Cherry Creek intended to improve achievement - and that these include everything from lengthening time spent in class to re-examining curriculum.
But Moses also stood fast as a booster of Singleton's theories. Of the gap in reading between district blacks and Hispanics on the one hand and whites and Asians on the other, Moses noted, only half can be attributed to the "risk factors" of special education, poor mastery of English, poverty, and residence in the district less than one year. Those same factors, he said, account for even less of the achievement gap in math, according to the same district analysis.
So what explains the remainder? Moses says the district, whose non-Anglo enrollment has reached 35 percent, can't dismiss the possibility of the "soft bigotry of low expectations" among teachers, or that "students of color may not trust us." He promotes Singleton's program as a way to ensure high expectations for all.
If that were the sum total of Singleton's thesis, who could argue? The problem is it isn't: The program also promotes a worldview in which American society is relentlessly oppressive; in which individuals, even today, remain at the mercy of their racial origins; in which "white talk" is "verbal, impersonal, intellectual" and "task-oriented," while "color commentary" is "nonverbal, personal, emotional" and "process-oriented."
The "courageous conversations" of the book's title are supposed to engage teachers in frank interracial dialogue. But as envisioned by Singleton and Linton, these conversations are successful mainly to the extent they follow a structured format in which participants examine and embrace specific premises, such as the ubiquity of white privilege and racism, and thus raise the consciousness of whites.
Participants must "come to recognize that race impacts every aspect of your life 100 percent of the time." Meanwhile, "anger, guilt and shame are just a few of the emotions" whites should expect to experience "as they move toward greater understanding of Whiteness."
Enlightened whites, in the authors' description, speak in the chastened, cringing language of someone who has emerged from a re-education camp. Singleton and Linton praise the example of a white male teacher in North Carolina who has this to say about his new perspective: "Although I often try to seek counsel of colleagues of color, it is inevitable that times arise where it's only after the fact that one of them points out some flaw in my reasoning. The flaws are often the result of my ingrained Whiteness and my own blindness to its perpetual presence."
Yes, good teachers need to empathize with students, understand their backgrounds and believe in their capacity to achieve. Of course "passion, practice and persistence" - as well as other elements of good schools identified by Singleton and Linton - are critical to closing the achievement gap.
But these qualities can be pursued in their own right. They do not depend on teachers adopting the poisonous perspective that the achievement problem, at its root, is a product of something called "Whiteness."
Thursday: If Whiteness is the obstacle, what explains the achievement of Asian students?
Vincent Carroll, editor of the editorial pages, writes On Point several times a week. Reach him at carrollv@Rocky MountainNews.com. |
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| thoroldjames |
your right, i guess, racism isn't the reason blacks/hispanics
are doing worse than whites in schools, the lack of emphasis on education in the home, and a culture that says doing well is for losers has done more damage than racism ever could.
proof of this is found in the asian/indian community, whose students not only equal white students, but in most cases surpass them. :korean: |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
your right, i guess, racism isn't the reason blacks/hispanics
are doing worse than whites in schools, the lack of emphasis on education in the home, and a culture that says doing well is for losers has done more damage than racism ever could. |
The point to be made here is that the REASON for the lack of emphasis on education and the culture low achievement is likely because of this IQ difference. A group with a low IQ is likely to CREATE a society where academic performance is not as cherished. Likewise if a group has inherit abilities in things like athletic performance, that group is them more likely to create a culture where athletic prowess is more valuble. Seems to explain why many of these kids will go play basketball instead of doing their homework and their parents let them.
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
proof of this is found in the asian/indian community, whose students not only equal white students, but in most cases surpass them. :korean: |
Asian, like Hispanic is a very broad term. North East Asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) do indeed have high average IQ, and that shows in their cultures where knowledge and education are promoted over athletics. India is a very complex issue. There is a lot of history there and the country is not racially or culturally homogeneous. However since they are not crippled with decades of liberal white guilt they see no problem in taking their best and brightest and giving them the best education that they can.
We stopped doing that here since the 1960's because of complaints by Blacks and Hispanics about discrimination, even though nothing discriminatory was done. See my post yesterday about Lowering educational standards again. |
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| muntz |
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
The point to be made here is that the REASON for the lack of emphasis on education and the culture low achievement is likely because of this IQ difference. A group with a low IQ is likely to CREATE a society where academic performance is not as cherished. Likewise if a group has inherit abilities in things like athletic performance, that group is them more likely to create a culture where athletic prowess is more valuble. Seems to explain why many of these kids will go play basketball instead of doing their homework and their parents let them. |
dude youre sounding like Hitler and that eugenics stuff that the races are separate....
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
Asian, like Hispanic is a very broad term. North East Asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) do indeed have high average IQ, and that shows in their cultures where knowledge and education are promoted over athletics. India is a very complex issue. There is a lot of history there and the country is not racially or culturally homogeneous. However since they are not crippled with decades of liberal white guilt they see no problem in taking their best and brightest and giving them the best education that they can. |
India had its own history and problems with the caste system... this was in effect for thousands of years there..... they had their own guilt and whites do NOT have exclusivity....
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
We stopped doing that here since the 1960's because of complaints by Blacks and Hispanics about discrimination, even though nothing discriminatory was done. See my post yesterday about Lowering educational standards again. |
Well thats due to cutting budgets, not valueing teachers more moneywise.... and shirking more and more responsibility to parents... now thats going away too... to government.... |
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| Ironpirate |
| Blacks care about RAP stars and dressing like them.........who needs school, lol |
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| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
I think the wholesale promotion of ones culture will never be the answer. Promoting the idea that cultural sensetivity is the answer to education problems is ridiculos. More likely that you will increase raicial tension as each group tries to prove their culture is better. What about just sticking to teaching the basics and let parents teach the culture or religion for that matter.
What is wrong with teaching them to be Americans with pasts just like all the other races. |
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| Luther |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
I think the wholesale promotion of ones culture will never be the answer. Promoting the idea that cultural sensetivity is the answer to education problems is ridiculos. More likely that you will increase raicial tension as each group tries to prove their culture is better. What about just sticking to teaching the basics and let parents teach the culture or religion for that matter.
What is wrong with teaching them to be Americans with pasts just like all the other races. |
I agree.
The reality is, however, that the roots of black culture is really only a step up from from animal behavior. Just look back at Africa over the past few hundred years as compared to the civilized world. If they were smart, they would run as far away from their past as possible, and not embrace it. |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by Luther
I agree.
The reality is, however, that the roots of black culture is really only a step up from from animal behavior. Just look back at Africa over the past few hundred years as compared to the civilized world. If they were smart, they would run as far away from their past as possible, and not embrace it. |
yeah thank god people of european decent have never been involved in any animal behaviour. :rolleyes: |
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| JTProcess |
First off this is an op-ed piece... so for the most part it's based on this old codger's opinion...
here's some other territory that no one here has ventured into yet...
by what standard are these judgements being made??
Some of the Cirriculum in schools is probably not respected by non-white culture... or anyone who isn't a mindless robot for that matter.
A good example being the way someone like Columbus is glorified in our history cirriculum... American Kids grow up thinking he's this great hero who discovered our country.. (he even has his own holiday!) but the indians, vikings, magellan and probably a whole slew of other people I forgot about had already been over here and he was just some bounty hunting hack who brutalized indians while looking for riches...
Don't even get me started on the whole "Intelligent Design" thing... |
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| muntz |
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
yeah thank god people of european decent have never been involved in any animal behaviour. :rolleyes: |
Lets see who have europeans hurt over history...
Africans
Indians
Native Americans
Maori
Aboriginese
Indochina (Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam)
Filipinos
Hatians
Chinese
Zulu
Tasmanians
Jews
Protestants
Catholics
Aztecs
Quechua
Incans
And then of course themselves...
the Irish
Poles
Czechs
Bosnians
Kosovans
Dutch
Belgians
Hungarians
Rumanians
Bulgarians
Greeks
Basques
Roma (Gypsys)
French
Russians
Ukranians
Armenians
Cypriots
Shall I go on .... |
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| Crazytree |
Quote: Originally posted by Luther
I agree.
The reality is, however, that the roots of black culture is really only a step up from from animal behavior. Just look back at Africa over the past few hundred years as compared to the civilized world. If they were smart, they would run as far away from their past as possible, and not embrace it. |
I'm with Luther. I think the best way to live life is at home, leeching off your parents and saying things about the bleeks on internet forums you would never have the balls to say to their faces. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by muntz
dude youre sounding like Hitler and that eugenics stuff that the races are separate.... |
The races are seperate. Companies like this:
http://www.dnaancestryproject.com/
could not exist if there weren't DNA differences that group by race and ethnicity. There is nothing Hilterlesque or eugenic about it, simple scientifically proven facts. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by JTProcess
First off this is an op-ed piece... so for the most part it's based on this old codger's opinion... |
While the article may be someone's opinion, the subject at hand, that Blacks and Hispanics are not doing as well in class is due to Rascism was bought and paid for with the tax payer dollars of the citizens of that area. More than likely this is happening in a school near you too. Wonder why they keep asking for more money and the quality keeps going down? Well if they are wasting their time with "studies" like this you have your answer.
Quote: Originally posted by JTProcess
here's some other territory that no one here has ventured into yet...
by what standard are these judgements being made??
Some of the Cirriculum in schools is probably not respected by non-white culture... or anyone who isn't a mindless robot for that matter.
A good example being the way someone like Columbus is glorified in our history cirriculum... American Kids grow up thinking he's this great hero who discovered our country.. (he even has his own holiday!) but the indians, vikings, magellan and probably a whole slew of other people I forgot about had already been over here and he was just some bounty hunting hack who brutalized indians while looking for riches...
Don't even get me started on the whole "Intelligent Design" thing... |
A typical liberal response. Non- white culture does not "respect" the curriculum. I suppose you have some evidence to support your claim that these kids are not able to learn something they are not "interested" in. Should we start teaching gang signs 101, perhaps Advanced Graffiti?
I suppose by your reasoning then that their math scores should all be the same? Math is the universal language after all.
Yes the history of European people is complex and full of examples of conflict with others. So is everyone elses. The main difference is that our culture is such that we as a people have made tremedous strides in achievement, achievements the whole world envies. By the way while others may have come to North America, Columbus did sail a wooden boat across the ocean to get here, that IS a pretty big achievement (the vikings may have as well, the data is still sketchy on this). I would not want to sail a wooden boat across the ocean now, let alone 500+ years ago. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Luther
I agree.
The reality is, however, that the roots of black culture is really only a step up from from animal behavior. Just look back at Africa over the past few hundred years as compared to the civilized world. If they were smart, they would run as far away from their past as possible, and not embrace it. |
This was the flaw during colonization of Africa. The colonizing powers looked at Africa and figured that if the Africans would only stop doing things the way they do them and do things the way European do them then all of the problems in Africa would end. However history and now more recently science is showing that this is a flawed concept. Race and culture cannot be so easily seperated. Some individuals of one race can adapt to the culture of another race, but many will not. The differences between races makes their cultures different and while there may be considerable overlap between the groups this does not mean that there is not an average difference that is likely to have real consequences. Blacks have been in this country for 400 years, completely submersed in western culture and yet few would argue that blacks retain a "distinct" culture of their own. This would not be possible without there being some underlying difference that keeps this alive. Read this link for more information:
http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/fa...npdfs/PPPL1.pdf
Expecting a whole race to just drop their culture would be like yelling at your cat for not eating hay. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by muntz
Lets see who have europeans hurt over history...
Africans
Indians
Native Americans
Maori
Aboriginese
Indochina (Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam)
Filipinos
Hatians
Chinese
Zulu
Tasmanians
Jews
Protestants
Catholics
Aztecs
Quechua
Incans
And then of course themselves...
the Irish
Poles
Czechs
Bosnians
Kosovans
Dutch
Belgians
Hungarians
Rumanians
Bulgarians
Greeks
Basques
Roma (Gypsys)
French
Russians
Ukranians
Armenians
Cypriots
Shall I go on .... |
Now go through the entire history of each of these groups and tell me about the conflicts each of them have had.
Guess what since the beginning of time different people have fought with each other. |
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| muntz |
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
Now go through the entire history of each of these groups and tell me about the conflicts each of them have had.
Guess what since the beginning of time different people have fought with each other. |
YOU ARE AN IDIOT !!!
I am a history major, and have a dad who is a history and military buff... I could go into detail about each of the groups i've listed but that would be long and boring....
The point of the list was this... a post which said
"yeah thank god people of european decent have never been involved in any animal behaviour."
Europeans have been the biggest regarding bloodshed and colonizing other peoples I consider that animal behavior... in other parts of the world and also to themselves that was the whole point... no more no less... |
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| JTProcess |
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
While the article may be someone's opinion, the subject at hand, that Blacks and Hispanics are not doing as well in class is due to Rascism was bought and paid for with the tax payer dollars of the citizens of that area. More than likely this is happening in a school near you too. Wonder why they keep asking for more money and the quality keeps going down? Well if they are wasting their time with "studies" like this you have your answer. |
Show me a bill that says tax money shouldn't be wasted on idiotic studies like this and I will vote for it's approval. Rather than spending the money on the study why not invest it into programs to help these people break out of the cycle of underacheivement they're trapped in.
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
A typical liberal response. Non- white culture does not "respect" the curriculum. I suppose you have some evidence to support your claim that these kids are not able to learn something they are not "interested" in. Should we start teaching gang signs 101, perhaps Advanced Graffiti? |
If liberalism means seeing the big picture and taking into account viewpoints other than my own than so be it... my point wasn't that they are "not able to learn something they're not interested in" my point was certain things being taught in certain schools are a crock of shit... so by that measure anyone with a mind of their own would be labeled a failure.
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
I suppose by your reasoning then that their math scores should all be the same? Math is the universal language after all. |
Let's see the statistics for this one on a nationwide level rather than from the suburbs of colorado... because I'm willing to bet that the national average tells a different story than a study done in a whitebread ski resort state like colorado.
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
Yes the history of European people is complex and full of examples of conflict with others. So is everyone elses. The main difference is that our culture is such that we as a people have made tremedous strides in achievement, achievements the whole world envies. |
What "acheivements" have we made that the whole world envies? I think at one point the US was very respected as a beacon of social progress and an example that other countries would strive to emulate... but thanks to the foreign policy of a few hawks and their corporate buddies... that is long gone.
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
By the way while others may have come to North America, Columbus did sail a wooden boat across the ocean to get here, that IS a pretty big achievement (the vikings may have as well, the data is still sketchy on this). I would not want to sail a wooden boat across the ocean now, let alone 500+ years ago. |
It's a big acheivement sure... So is being suspended in a globe full of water for 7 days... but c'mon Columbus didn't "discover america" |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by muntz
YOU ARE AN IDIOT !!!
I am a history major, and have a dad who is a history and military buff... I could go into detail about each of the groups i've listed but that would be long and boring....
The point of the list was this... a post which said
"yeah thank god people of european decent have never been involved in any animal behaviour."
Europeans have been the biggest regarding bloodshed and colonizing other peoples I consider that animal behavior... in other parts of the world and also to themselves that was the whole point... no more no less... |
i was being sarcastic(really i was, i'm not insane)
but the reallity is all humans are capabale of sickening violence against each other.
if europeans have killed more it's only because of the advanced ways in which we've waged war over the past couple of centuries.
by the way lets not forget the asians have been pretty good at
wholesale slaughter themselves |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by muntz
YOU ARE AN IDIOT !!!
I am a history major, and have a dad who is a history and military buff... I could go into detail about each of the groups i've listed but that would be long and boring....
The point of the list was this... a post which said
"yeah thank god people of european decent have never been involved in any animal behaviour." |
I believe the point of that post you mention was to be sarcastic, however I could be wrong.
Quote: Originally posted by muntz
Europeans have been the biggest regarding bloodshed and colonizing other peoples I consider that animal behavior... in other parts of the world and also to themselves that was the whole point... no more no less... |
Then the question that begs to be asked is: Is the lack of colonization done by other people due to a lack of intrest in such activities or a lack of ability? |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by JTProcess
Show me a bill that says tax money shouldn't be wasted on idiotic studies like this and I will vote for it's approval. Rather than spending the money on the study why not invest it into programs to help these people break out of the cycle of underacheivement they're trapped in. |
I couldn't agree with you more. If I was a parent in this district I would demand accountability in how the tax payers money is used.
Quote: Originally posted by JTProcess
If liberalism means seeing the big picture and taking into account viewpoints other than my own than so be it... my point wasn't that they are "not able to learn something they're not interested in" my point was certain things being taught in certain schools are a crock of shit... so by that measure anyone with a mind of their own would be labeled a failure. |
Well whether the things being taught is shit or not, there remains a significant gap in academic achievement. If you consider that being a liberal makes you open minded then I offer this as an explaination:
http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/fa...npdfs/PPPL1.pdf
Quote: Originally posted by JTProcess
Let's see the statistics for this one on a nationwide level rather than from the suburbs of colorado... because I'm willing to bet that the national average tells a different story than a study done in a whitebread ski resort state like colorado. |
Here you go, same results:
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs98/98038.pdf
Quote: Originally posted by JTProcess
What "acheivements" have we made that the whole world envies? I think at one point the US was very respected as a beacon of social progress and an example that other countries would strive to emulate... but thanks to the foreign policy of a few hawks and their corporate buddies... that is long gone. |
My point was more to do with the achievements of European people worldwide, not just the US. However the US is certainly not looked on favourably by the world for a variety of reasons. Your points are certainly part of it, sticking our heads in other peoples business would also be a big part of it.
Quote: Originally posted by JTProcess
It's a big acheivement sure... So is being suspended in a globe full of water for 7 days... but c'mon Columbus didn't "discover america" |
I realize he was not the first person here, just the first of modern Europeans to discover it. It doesn't matter how many others were here, if they did not record their achievements for the world to study then it is forgotten. It would be like if you can say that you can walk on you hands for 90 miles. It may be a record but if nobody records you doing it and you die before you get to do it again, the current record will still stand. Keep in mind, it was not America until Europeans made it America. |
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| Luther |
| There is really nothing to argue about. World history speaks for itself. |
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| Crazytree |
| your personals ad speaks for itself too O ARYAN SUPERMAN. :rolleyes: |
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| Luther |
Quote: Originally posted by muntz
YOU ARE AN IDIOT !!!
I am a history major, and have a dad who is a history and military buff... I could go into detail about each of the groups i've listed but that would be long and boring....
The point of the list was this... a post which said
"yeah thank god people of european decent have never been involved in any animal behaviour."
Europeans have been the biggest regarding bloodshed and colonizing other peoples I consider that animal behavior... in other parts of the world and also to themselves that was the whole point... no more no less... |
White people of European and Jewish decent are responsible for most of the significant progress in history. The Renaissance, the Enlightenment, Industrialization, Globalization. Progress in science, art, music, literature. Those are just a few examples. The civilized world we live in now is a result of that progress. The good and the bad.
The fact is that there has been very little progress in black Africa. Ever. Nothing with any significance to this world today has come from there. It is simply not important. To use blackness as an excuse for failure is rediculous.
What blacks in America need to realize is not that their race is so important and it affects everything they do, but that it means nothing and will have no effect on whether or not they will succeed. The sooner they realize that the better off they will be. |
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| muntz |
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
I believe the point of that post you mention was to be sarcastic, however I could be wrong. |
True...
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
Then the question that begs to be asked is: Is the lack of colonization done by other people due to a lack of intrest in such activities or a lack of ability? |
I would say both.. India, China, Africans enslaving others of course that does and has occurred, but Europe I think has done it on a larger scale... going back to that Eugenics stuff where they believed they were superior to other races.... |
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| muntz |
Quote: Originally posted by Luther
White people of European and Jewish decent are responsible for most of the significant progress in history. The Renaissance, the Enlightenment, Industrialization, Globalization. Progress in science, art, music, literature. Those are just a few examples. The civilized world we live in now is a result of that progress. The good and the bad. |
You forgot the Holocaust, Inquisition, Dark Ages, Pogroms, and Crusades were done by europeans too...
Quote: Originally posted by Luther
The fact is that there has been very little progress in black Africa. Ever. Nothing with any significance to this world today has come from there. It is simply not important. To use blackness as an excuse for failure is rediculous. |
theyve had achievements but on a lower scale... kingdoms of Mali, Ghana, Zulu, Swazi, and Ethiopia.
Quote: Originally posted by Luther
What blacks in America need to realize is not that their race is so important and it affects everything they do, but that it means nothing and will have no effect on whether or not they will succeed. The sooner they realize that the better off they will be. |
Think of the modern progress in South Africa, Senegal, Botswana, Angola... there is a future for them but it should be separate from us... |
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| Kill Van Kull |
Ever consider the idea that it’s genetic? This sounds racist, although believe me, I’m not but maybe the reason blacks commit a disproportionate amount of the crime in the US and continue to disproportionately fail socially, is genetics.
Plenty of kids from inner-city schools in blighted areas have gone to ivy-league colleges and become great professional successes. That proves that the opportunity is there. Why then do so many end up in jail or substance addicted and/or poor?
It's gotta be in the genes.
*puts on helmet* |
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| Crazytree |
I think we should sponsor Luther to go around to inner-city schools and give them motivational speeches.
And then we can laugh when he gets gangbanged and bukkake'd by the school basketball team. |
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| Luther |
Quote: Originally posted by muntz
You forgot the Holocaust, Inquisition, Dark Ages, Pogroms, and Crusades were done by europeans too...
theyve had achievements but on a lower scale... kingdoms of Mali, Ghana, Zulu, Swazi, and Ethiopia.
Think of the modern progress in South Africa, Senegal, Botswana, Angola... there is a future for them but it should be separate from us... |
I have not forgotten about those things. The fact is that out of war and bloodshed has come progress. |
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| Luther |
Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree
I think we should sponsor Luther to go around to inner-city schools and give them motivational speeches.
And then we can laugh when he gets gangbanged and bukkake'd by the school basketball team. |
Why are you so gay? |
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| Luther |
Quote: Originally posted by Kill Van Kull
Ever consider the idea that it’s genetic? This sounds racist, although believe me, I’m not but maybe the reason blacks commit a disproportionate amount of the crime in the US and continue to disproportionately fail socially, is genetics.
Plenty of kids from inner-city schools in blighted areas have gone to ivy-league colleges and become great professional successes. That proves that the opportunity is there. Why then do so many end up in jail or substance addicted and/or poor?
It's gotta be in the genes.
*puts on helmet* |
It is not genetic. There is simply no evidence for that. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Luther
It is not genetic. There is simply no evidence for that. |
Thats where you are mistaken. There is plenty of evidence for that.
1. Black have a higher resting testosterone level ( ie Aggresivness)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...1&dopt=Abstract
2. Blacks have a lower mean IQ. IQ is strongly correlated with lower time preferences (instant gratification) and lack of foresight (inability to think about the future consequences of current actions)
Put together and you have the foundation for a criminal. It does not mean that ALL blacks will be criminals, merely that there will likely be a higher percentage of their population that are criminals. Using the Unified Crime Reports from the FBI we can see that in the US the crime rate for blacks is about 7x that of whites. A few weeks ago I posted an article from the UK:
http://www.sternfannetwork.com/foru...havior.
You can read all about the IQ difference here:
http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/fa...npdfs/PPPL1.pdf
To read further on the other genetic differences I suggest the book:
Race, Evolution and Behavior by Phillip Rhushton (University of Western Ontairo).
In this book Rhushton details many genetic differences with regard to behavior including
age of 1st intercourse, age of menstruation, age of first child, criminality and many more.
Also see:
On Genetic Interests by Frank Salter (Max Plank Center , Germany). This book details the genetic differences between various human groups and the impact this may have for society.
Science is now answering a lot of the quesitons with regard to genetics and human behavior, unfortunately for the egalitarian crowd the picture is not as pretty as they had hoped for. |
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| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
High crime rates amongst blacks doesn't have anything to do with the fact that there is a bias against hiring them. it must be that they are dumb.
What an asshole you are.
I hope you are reincarnated as a black person. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
High crime rates amongst blacks doesn't have anything to do with the fact that there is a bias against hiring them. it must be that they are dumb.
What an asshole you are.
I hope you are reincarnated as a black person. |
How do you account for the fact that the crime rate for blacks in the UK is the same as the crime rate for blacks in the US. Blacks in the UK came there under their own free will, mostly in the last 40 years, while blacks in the US were brought here as slaves but have been submersed in western society for 400 years. Same breeding stock, different enviroments, same result. Does this argue in favor of a genetic or enviromental element in crime rates? If it is merely the actions of white people that cause the black pathology then why doesn't Africa have low crime rates? Why are mostly black areas in this country also the most crime prone?
YOu can read about the UK vs US crime here:
http://www.sternfannetwork.com/foru...threadid=120221
If there is a bias you need to show proof of that, some scientific evidence. Yet you have none. You have insults and emotion and nothing more. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
All across the world this same pattern occurs and we are supposed to ignor this? Same people, different enviroment, same results.
Note this little gem:
Quote: The targeting of certain boroughs might be justified in terms of some crime, but it’s certainly not justified in terms of all crime.”
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So in other words, let not try to make these people look bad and just let them get away with the smaller stuff like mugging, car thefts ect. If this is going on in this country then the real data on arrests and crime would likely be much MORE lopsided than they are now.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/articl...2179561,00.html
Quote: Cameras set racial poser on car crime
Dipesh Gadher, Transport Correspondent
BRITAIN’S most senior policeman Sir Ian Blair is facing a race relations dilemma after the release of figures that reveal almost half the number of people arrested in relation to car crime in London are black.
Blair, the Metropolitan police commissioner, has signed off a report by his force’s traffic unit which shows that black people account for 46% of all arrests generated by new automatic numberplate recognition (ANPR) cameras.
The technology allows car registration plates to be scanned and automatically run through databases to determine whether a vehicle is stolen, uninsured or has not had its road tax paid.
Each numberplate is also checked with the police national computer, where vehicles suspected of links to crimes such as robberies are flagged up.
The Met has deployed six mobile ANPR camera units in the capital, primarily in areas with high levels of street crime. When a suspect vehicle is identified, police officers are sent to intercept the driver.
Although ANPR technology is impartial, the disproportionate number of blacks being arrested has prompted the Met to investigate.
The arrests have been broken down by ethnicity in a report sent last month to the Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA), to which the force is accountable.
It reveals that between April 2005 and January this year the units generated 2,023 arrests. Of these 923 were black suspects, while 738 (36%) came from white backgrounds. Asians accounted for just over 9% of arrests.
The report tacitly appears to address concerns among ethnic minority communities who believe they are unfairly targeted by the police through stop and search powers. Black people are up to six times more likely to be stopped than whites.
The report says: “It is worth stating that out of all our activities, this is the one area where the officer has minimal discretion as they respond to an electronic matching process.”
Last week the Met attempted to explain the high number of arrests among blacks by the fact that they make up a higher proportion of the population in areas such as Southwark and Lewisham in south London, where the ANPR units operate.
However, statistics from the 2001 census show that the highest black population in any borough is no greater than about 25%. The proportion of black people across the capital as a whole is about 11%.
Peter Herbert, an independent member of the MPA and spokesman for the Society of Black Lawyers, said: “The Met really wants to avoid any allegation of disproportionality so they will seek to explain these figures by whatever nuance they can. The targeting of certain boroughs might be justified in terms of some crime, but it’s certainly not justified in terms of all crime.”
Captain Gatso, of Motorists Against Detection, the anti-speed-camera group that uncovered the Met figures, said: “All this does is create a new problem for Sir Ian Blair, the politically correct PC, as ANPR cameras and the databases they are linked to are colour blind.”
It is more than a decade ago that Lord Condon, the former Met commissioner, caused controversy when he suggested that young black men were likely to be responsible for most muggings.
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| Luther |
:dontknow:
What is the solution? |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Luther
:dontknow:
What is the solution? |
Quote: 1. Give people freedom of association. The current laws regarding anti discrimination (espacially the fair housing act) preventing individuals from protecting their neighborhoods is unconstutional (violation of Freedom of Association). In other words let those who wish to live together do so and create say a Home Owners association that would protect their neighborhood. This would apply to everyone, white, black, Hispanic, etc. The governments would not be allowed to discriminate against anyone. In fact restrict the government from passing any laws regarding race. This would end any Affirmative action type of programs.
2 Less central power in the Federal Government, more to the States and Cities. Each city should be self sufficient. They pay for services through the taxes they collect. No more federal funds to pick up the slack. That way if some corrupt polititcian in some city blows the money that they should have used to fix (schools, levies, roads, water mains whatever) the citizens of that city should have to deal with it. This was the case in NO, the city spent millions of dollars that should have been used to shore up those levies a decade ago on a highway to get better access to the casino.
Thats about it. Would not cost the Government any money, infact just getting rid of Affirmative Action would save about 400 Billion/year. Fed taxes should go down, City and State taxes would go up. Over all it would be about the same. And under no circumstances would anyone be forced to do anything. There would be pockets where people would choose to live a lifestye that may be different than yours and most of the country would remain the same. |
http://www.sternfannetwork.com/foru...threadid=120221
Combine this with the educational changes I suggest here:
| Quote: Simply end all racial preferences. Go back to teaching kids by ability. Give every child an IQ test and group them together by ability so that the teacher isn't slowing down the lesson for the lower IQ kids. That way every kid will learn to the extent of their abilities, white, black etc. For kids in the bottom rung stick to the basics, reading writing and basic math. Spend 12 years teaching the same material if you have to. It does society no good to have a curriculum that is based for an "average" stuent and try to teach all kids the same stuff. Those of lower ability will get frustrated, and drop out without learning anything. By teaching each group to the extent of their abilities we can ensure that even the lower IQ group will have the basic skills needed to hold down a job. By stemming illegal immigration we will give our own low IQ people (white, black hispanic etc) a chance to hold a job that will pay for the basics such as a house and family. That will end the need for welfare and reduce crime. It will require us to acknowledge that some groups will be overrepresented in the high IQ classes (whites and asians) and others will be over rep in the lower classes (blacks and hispanics). This has nothing to due with rascism or discrimination, just mother nature |
http://www.sternfannetwork.com/foru...15&pagenumber=3
Combine this with knowlege of science and we can create system where everyone can succeed to the extent of their abilities. At the same time noone is being punished for the failures of others. |
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| Luther |
| I agree with most of that. |
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| Luther |
| Slavery is arguably the worst mistake in American history. |
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| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
"In other words let those who wish to live together do so and create say a Home Owners association that would protect their neighborhood."
Yah good idea. Let's build walls arounds the white neighborhoods and put all the blacks in ghettos with no resources to better themselves.
You are really sick. |
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| Luther |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
"In other words let those who wish to live together do so and create say a Home Owners association that would protect their neighborhood."
Yah good idea. Let's build walls arounds the white neighborhoods and put all the blacks in ghettos with no resources to better themselves.
You are really sick. |
I think he is saying let everyone live where they want, whites and blacks. |
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| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
| Oh I was unaware that blacks wanted to live in ghettos |
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| Luther |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
Oh I was unaware that blacks wanted to live in ghettos |
Are blacks not allowed to live elsewhere? |
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| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
| Sure but it takes money and since people like yamahafan are going to discriminte against them because they are below average on a test that only measures certain kinds of intelligence, they are only going to be allowed to make enough money to survive in the most basic manner. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
Sure but it takes money and since people like yamahafan are going to discriminte against them because they are below average on a test that only measures certain kinds of intelligence, they are only going to be allowed to make enough money to survive in the most basic manner. |
You obviously have not read the link with the research from the last 30 years on IQ research or you would realize you have no idea what you are talking about.
Blacks live in ghettos because that is the type of society they create, whether they live in the US or Africa. It has nothing to do with whites. What the government has been doing is to take away the rights of white people to make blacks happy. Ask yourself this
Do you live in a black neighborhood? Why not ? I have lived in such a neighborhood in east Cleveland. I can tell you there is a reason you don't live there and money has nothing to do with it.
I have not suggested I would discriminate against anyone, you are putting words into my mouth.
Answer this, Is it RIGHT for the government to take the rights of people away to support an ideology? Even when scientific evidence suggests that the ideology is wrong. |
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| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
Blacks live in ghettos because that is the type of society they create, whether they live in the US or Africa.
Answer this, Is it RIGHT for the government to take the rights of people away to support an ideology? Even when scientific evidence suggests that the ideology is wrong. |
Blacks live in ghettos because they are poor.
What rights are being taken away? Whites already have the power to live away from blacks. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
Blacks live in ghettos because they are poor. |
Which begs the question, Why are they poor? Not only in the US but worldwide?
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
What rights are being taken away? |
Freedom of Association. A white man (or black or hispanic) that owns a building is not allowed to choose to only rent it to a white (or whom ever they choose). In China, Russia, Cuba, Mexico a person can tell a perspective buyer or renter to get lost for any reason they choose.
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
Whites already have the power to live away from blacks. |
Not poor or working class whites. As houses become more expensive and gas prices rise the working classes will be forced into contact as never before. In the 1960's the working class whites moved out to the suburbs. Now the suburbs are getting too expensive and gas is too expensive to move any farther away. |
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| Dubya is a Dick |
Answer this, Is it RIGHT for the government to take the rights of people away to support an ideology? Even when scientific evidence suggests that the ideology is wrong. [/B][/QUOTE]
You must be talking about the fact that churches are tax free even though religion is clearly bullshit ? |
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| Reverend Tyler |
| Im guessing Yamahafans wife or girlfriend left him for a black guy. They have way bigger cocks. |
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| Luther |
Quote: Originally posted by Dubya is a Dick
You must be talking about the fact that churches are tax free even though religion is clearly bullshit ? |
The fact that churchs are not-for-profit organizations is why they are tax-exempt, not that they are religious. Any (?) not-for-profit organization can be tax exempt. |
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| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
Freedom of Association. A white man (or black or hispanic) that owns a building is not allowed to choose to only rent it to a white (or whom ever they choose). In China, Russia, Cuba, Mexico a person can tell a perspective buyer or renter to get lost for any reason they choose.
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Which is a big reason I would not want to live in any of those countries.
So I guess you must think that equal protection under the law is a bad idea. |
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| Crazytree |
let's be honest here Luther.
if you had to go out and get a job you'd be one of the working poor too. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
Which is a big reason I would not want to live in any of those countries. |
So having the freedom of choice is a bad thing?
Do you think that it is right for government to be able to dictate to you how you use your private property?
What if they next tell you who you have to rent to in order to fullfill some new form of neighborhood integration. So you own an apartment building and now the governement has decided that you MUST rent to a black person to help integrate that neighborhood? Would you go along with that? Where does it end? How far are we willing to let government take away our rights while they try to play social police?
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
So I guess you must think that equal protection under the law is a bad idea. |
The government should NOT be allowed to discriminate against anyone for any reason, therefore everyone gets equal protection under the law.
Private individuals should be able to discriminate against anyone for any reason. |
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| Billyfromsphily |
| Ghettos have been the home of the poor regardless of race , for centuries. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Billyfromsphily
Ghettos have been the home of the poor regardless of race , for centuries. |
Good point, when during the turn of the 20th century, Asians, and Jews and Italians all lived in ghettos it was said to be protective for them, to give them a place of their own making. However for blacks it has been argued that the "ghetto" is bad for them. The Italians, Asians and Jews typically simply built their "ghetto" into nice neighborhoods after some period of time. Many cities have "Little Italy" neighborhoods to this day, most are rather nice.
So the question that begs to be asked:
Why were the ghettos considered protective for most poor, except for blacks?
Why were all other groups able to build their ghettos into livable neighborhoods, whereas for blacks we have had to dump TRILLIONS of FEDERAL TAX dollars since the 1960's and still have little to show for it? |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Dubya is a Dick
You must be talking about the fact that churches are tax free even though religion is clearly bullshit ? |
If the government was forcing you to go to those churches you would have a point. What they are doing is forcing all of us to go along with THEIR ideology. THey have no evidence, no science, no real data to support their claims. In fact the data suggests that everything they believe is wrong. Sound familiar? |
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| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
Good point, when during the turn of the 20th century, Asians, and Jews and Italians all lived in ghettos it was said to be protective for them, to give them a place of their own making. |
What???? Wrong again. No one wanted to move to the gehetto for protection. You really are stupid. They moved there because the rents were cheap. Everyone who could, moved out.
You think that black's create the ghetto? Look at Howard's experence. As soon as one black family moved out of the ghettos to Roseberg all the white people fled. Housing prices dropped like a stone. More blacks moved in to take advantage of the lower housing prices. They were trying to move to a middle class neighborhood. However as more whites fled it became a ghetto as more and more POOR blacks moved in. Blacks did not turn Roseberg into a gehtto. Fear of blacks did. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
What???? Wrong again. No one wanted to move to the gehetto for protection. You really are stupid. They moved there because the rents were cheap. Everyone who could, moved out. |
Look at any social commentary about the history of people coming to this country, the ghettos were cheap but it was seen as a way for the new comers to assimilate at a reasonable pace while still enjoying the company of people like themselves. I am not the only person to state this. The fact that poor blacks have been unable to fix up their neighborhoods while other groups have fixed up theirs is ignored.
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
You think that black's create the ghetto? Look at Howard's experence. As soon as one black family moved out of the ghettos to Roseberg all the white people fled. Housing prices dropped like a stone. More blacks moved in to take advantage of the lower housing prices. They were trying to move to a middle class neighborhood. However as more whites fled it became a ghetto as more and more POOR blacks moved in. Blacks did not turn Roseberg into a gehtto. Fear of blacks did. |
But why did the whites leave? Just fear or did they notice their neighborhood change? Did their kids get the shit beat out of them everyday, like Howard did? Did they see crime, and shenanigans of all sorts that the neighborhood never had before?
Do you really believe that bad neighborhoods fall out of the sky and land on blacks?
Different types of peole create different types of societies.
Look at the Unified Crime Report from the FBI, the violent crime rate for blacks is 7X that of whites. Who in their right mind would live near that?
Housing prices in black neighborhoods fall because nobody wants to live there. It may be fear, but a fear that is clearly justified. If you don't believe the fear of living around blacks is justfied, please move to the poorest black community near your home. Live there, walk down the street at 11pm and ask for the time to whoever you see walking about. See how long you last.
Are we to believe that white kids from the suburbs are coming inot the black neighborhoods to commit crime? Are suburbanites coming into Detroit to make it one of the highest crime cities in the country? Why are crime rates in black run countries such as Haiti and Zimbabwe so high? Yes whites, especially the poor, working class whites who are most likely to have to interact with blacks on a daily basis, are afraid to live near blacks; and they have every right to be. You have oviously never spent much time in such a neighborhood or you would not have even started on this line of reasoning.
I lived in a poor black ghetto for several years back in the mid 90's. I lived in the Collinwood neighborhood in east Cleveland (OHIO). I grew up around poor whites. I have also lived around poor hispanics. Unlike most people I have actually experienced these things and can tell you from first hand experience that life in poor black neighborhoods is unlike that of anywhere else. |
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| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Yah right. One black family moved in and began beating the shit out of all the white people.
As long as white people refuse to give blacks good jobs expect the black gehtto problem to get worse.
The reason the Irish and jews moved out of the gehttos is because the second generation could pass for white. No group "fixed up" their neighborhood. They move away. |
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| Luther |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
Yah right. One black family moved in and began beating the shit out of all the white people.
As long as white people refuse to give blacks good jobs expect the black gehtto problem to get worse.
The reason the Irish and jews moved out of the gehttos is because the second generation could pass for white. No group "fixed up" their neighborhood. They move away. |
In order to be given a "good job" one must be able to do the job. There are plenty of blacks that have good careers and are successful. Most, however, are unskilled and uneducated, and therefore incapable of doing a "good job." Blacks with an education are able to have successful careers. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
Yah right. One black family moved in and began beating the shit out of all the white people. |
No the first family was probably fine. If you look at the demographic data most cities took decades to get to 20% black, then only a couple of years to go from 20% to 60%> . Once the minority reaches a certain point refered to as "critical mass" the impact they have on society becomes felt by everyone.
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
As long as white people refuse to give blacks good jobs expect the black gehtto problem to get worse. |
Why does anyone have to GIVE anyone anything. They should be able to create these things for themselves. Your problem is you are fixated on white people being responsible for the plight of blacks. 70% of black kids are born illegitamate (US census bureau). Blacks commit crime at 7X the white rate (FBI), Blacks drop out of school, even when it is being provided to them for free at alarmingly high rates (Depart of EDucation). Simply put blacks are in the position they are in becuase that is the type of society they build. Your words are the typical empty headed liberal fantasies from someone who has NEVER lived near blacks. If you were to spend any time living around poor blacks you would understand that they are in their position due to inherent qualities in them that influence the decisions they make.
If every bad thing that happens to blacks is because of whites, then black run countries should be on par with white run countries in terms of wealth and technology. However that is not the case. NOT ONE country in Africa is a sucessful country, even by accident you would have expected it to happen at least once.
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
The reason the Irish and jews moved out of the gehttos is because the second generation could pass for white. No group "fixed up" their neighborhood. They move away. |
Again you are wrong, many groups did fix up their neighborhoods. Go to many large cities and the have "Little Italy" and other ethnic neighborhoods. Look at the pictures from those neighborhoods and you will see that many worked to improve their meager surroundings.
You bring up another point:
In what ways did Jews and Irish "fit in" and pass for white? Just skin color? Or do they graduate high school, commit crime, behave in ways that are similar to whites too? Perhaps they fit in better becuase this country was built and founded by whites and other whites will more easily fit into our society. Black society is simply very different and while many blacks fit in, many blacks are unable to fit in to white socieity. No amount of time, or money will erase the divisions of mother nature; but don't take my word for it our founding fathers all agree:
| Quote: Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people [blacks] are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion has drawn indelible lines of distinction between them." --Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821. ME 1:72 |
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| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by yamahafan1000
Why does anyone have to GIVE anyone anything. They should be able to create these things for themselves. |
When a white man gets hired for a job it is given to him. Don't they give them a paycheck? Aren't loans given? All jobs are not created by the person working them. |
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| mugzilla |
hers my problem....I'm a genius......
I don't c this god given talent as a reason why I should get more than others
I don't see exceptional physical ability or beauty as being valid reasons
work ethic or ability to do more than others...sure take a li'l if u r putting stuff on the table 4 others |
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| Crazytree |
yamaha... seriously...
all this talk about high IQs from you is pretty ridiculous... as you're probably closer to Beetlejuice than the higher end of the IQ spectrum.
besides IQ tests are pretty much bullshit IMO. I've taken plenty of them over the years and not only is there large discrepancies between the tests scores, but they're of limited practical relevance anyways. I went to university with plenty of "geniuses" and most of them could barely provide for their own personal care without assistance. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
When a white man gets hired for a job it is given to him. Don't they give them a paycheck? Aren't loans given? All jobs are not created by the person working them. |
Who is creating the job opportunities, why aren't blacks doing this for themselves? Blacks aren't creating these opportunities on their own, even in their own countries. Why don't blacks graduate high school at the same rate? Even when the education is being provided to them for free? If they aren't taking advantage of a free education, what chance will they every have in this society? You have yet to answer any questions I have posed to you. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree
yamaha... seriously...
all this talk about high IQs from you is pretty ridiculous... as you're probably closer to Beetlejuice than the higher end of the IQ spectrum.
besides IQ tests are pretty much bullshit IMO. I've taken plenty of them over the years and not only is there large discrepancies between the tests scores, but they're of limited practical relevance anyways. I went to university with plenty of "geniuses" and most of them could barely provide for their own personal care without assistance. |
Your personal experience is from the handfull of people you know, that is not representative of the population as a whole.
Read on:
http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/fa...npdfs/PPPL1.pdf |
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| Billyfromsphily |
Well if there is Liberal Brainwashing.......What is the reciprocal Conservative brainwashing like...
OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH Be scared of everything....OOOOOOHHHHHHH we are the only ones who can solve the propblem.........At record setting costs to the taxpayers.
OOOOHHH we just use smugness to answer real problems instead of action.
OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH the Democrats tax and spend.............WE JUST SPEND!!!!!! |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Billyfromsphily
Well if there is Liberal Brainwashing.......What is the reciprocal Conservative brainwashing like...
OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH Be scared of everything....OOOOOOHHHHHHH we are the only ones who can solve the propblem.........At record setting costs to the taxpayers.
OOOOHHH we just use smugness to answer real problems instead of action.
OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH the Democrats tax and spend.............WE JUST SPEND!!!!!! |
What is this nonsense supposed to mean? I have posted scientific evidence that the liberals (including the liberals in conservative clothing that now run our government) would rather you not know about. Stick to the topic. |
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| Billyfromsphily |
Well creating oportunities is hard when they are being shipped off shore.
Then stop the Govt spending on corporate welfare. |
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| yamahafan1000 |
Quote: Originally posted by Billyfromsphily
Well creating oportunities is hard when they are being shipped off shore.
Then stop the Govt spending on corporate welfare. |
Excellent point, lets try to do the best to look after our own citizens. I am against welfare, corporate or otherwise. We can do right by our own citizens (regardless of race) without punishing our most productive citizens for the failures of others. |
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