|
Note: This is a Text only archive. Go directly to the real forum.
Done in ALL Our Names: Children Were Held At Gitmo
- Click HERE to go to the original thread with graphics
banner
| Done in ALL Our Names: Children Were Held At Gitmo
- Click HERE to go to the original thread with graphics
|
| Ass Boil |
Can't wait to hear the excuses for this. Locking up 14 year old children with adults and holding them for YEARS without a trial is against the law no matter how you look at it...
Quote:
http://rawstory.com/showoutarticle....ticle620704.ece
The children of Guantanamo Bay
The 'IoS' reveals today that more than 60 of the detainees of the US camp were under 18 at the time of their capture, some as young as 14
By Severin Carrell
Published: 28 May 2006
The notorious US detention camp in Guantanamo Bay has been hit by fresh allegations of human rights abuses, with claims that dozens of children were sent there - some as young as 14 years old.
Lawyers in London estimate that more than 60 detainees held at the terrorists' prison camp were boys under 18 when they were captured.
They include at least 10 detainees still held at the US base in Cuba who were 14 or 15 when they were seized - including child soldiers who were held in solitary confinement, repeatedly interrogated and allegedly tortured.
The disclosures threaten to plunge the Bush administration into a fresh row with Britain, its closest ally in the war on terror, only days after the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, repeated his demands for the closure of the detention facility. It was, he said, a "symbol of injustice".
Whitehall sources said the new allegations, from the London-based legal rights group Reprieve, directly contradicted the Bush administration's assurances to the UK that no juveniles had been held there. "We would take a very, very dim view if it transpires that there were actually minors there," said an official.
One child prisoner, Mohamed el Gharani, is accused of involvement in a 1998 al-Qa'ida plot in London led by the alleged al-Qa'ida leader in Europe, Abu Qatada. But he was 12 years old at the time and living with his parents in Saudi Arabia.
After being arrested in Karachi in October 2001, aged 14, he has spent several years in solitary confinement as an alleged al-Qa'ida-trained fighter.
One Canadian-born boy, Omar Khadr, was 15 when arrested in 2002 and has also been kept in solitary confinement. The son of a known al-Qa'ida commander, he is accused of killing a US soldier with a grenade in July 2002 and was placed top of the Bush administration's list of detainees facing prosecution.
"It would surely be really quite stupid to allow the world to think you have teenagers in orange jumpsuits and shackles, spending 23 hours a day locked up in a cage," a source added. "If it's true that young people have been held there, their cases should be dealt with as a priority."
British officials last night told the IoS that the UK had been assured that any juveniles would be held in a special facility for child detainees at Guantanamo called Camp Iguana. But the US admits only three inmates were ever treated as children - three young Afghans, one aged 13, who were released in 2004 after a furore over their detention.
The row will again focus attention on the Bush administration's repeated claims that normal rules of war and human rights conventions do not apply to "enemy combatants" who were al-Qa'ida or Taliban fighters and supporters. The US insists these fighters did not have the same legal status as soldiers in uniform.
Clive Stafford Smith, a legal director of Reprieve and lawyer for a number of detainees, said it broke every widely accepted legal convention on human rights to put children in the same prison as adults - including US law.
"There is nothing wrong with trying minors for crimes, if they have committed crimes. The problem is when you either hold minors without trial in shocking conditions, or try them before a military commission that, in the words of a prosecutor who refused to take part, is rigged," he said. "Even if these kids were involved in fighting - and Omar is the only one who the military pretends was - then there is a UN convention against the use of child soldiers. There is a general recognition in the civilised world that children should be treated differently from adults."
Because the detainees have been held in Cuba for four years, all the teenagers are now thought to have reached their 18th birthdays in Guantanamo Bay and some have since been released.
The latest figures emerged after the Department of Defense (DoD) in Washington was forced to release the first ever list of Guantanamo detainees earlier this month. Although lawyers say it is riddled with errors - getting numerous names and dates of birth wrong - they were able to confirm that 17 detainees on the list were under 18 when taken to the camp, and another seven were probably juveniles.
In addition, said Mr Stafford Smith, they had credible evidence from other detainees, lawyers and the International Red Cross that another 37 inmates were under 18 when they were seized. One detainee, an al-Jazeera journalist called Sami el Hajj, has identified 36 juveniles in Guantanamo.
A senior Pentagon spokesman, Lt Commander Jeffrey Gordon, insisted that no one now being held at Guantanamo was a juvenile and said the DoD also rejected arguments that normal criminal law was relevant to the Guantanamo detainees.
"There is no international standard concerning the age of an individual who engages in combat operations... Age is not a determining factor in detention. [of those] engaged in armed conflict against our forces or in support to those fighting against us." |
|
|
|
| thoroldjames |
one of them is a canadian citizen, name is kadr(?)
was 15 when put there 3 years ago.
was captured during a firefight in afghanistan though, so i'm not sure where i stand on this one.
i don't like the idea of treating kids like adults, but i can see both sides. |
|
|
| Billyfromsphily |
| Well the Bush family is threatened.So they have to rot. |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
one of them is a canadian citizen, name is kadr(?)
was 15 when put there 3 years ago.
was captured during a firefight in afghanistan though, so i'm not sure where i stand on this one.
i don't like the idea of treating kids like adults, but i can see both sides. |
No one is saying the kids are innocent yet. But it is against virtually all known laws to hold children in adult prisons. And not ever charging them or giving them a trial is another thing... |
|
|
| crowbar317 |
| Spreading Democracy......<sigh> |
|
|
| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
No one is saying the kids are innocent yet. But it is against virtually all known laws to hold children in adult prisons. And not ever charging them or giving them a trial is another thing... |
i think holding even the adults for years on end with no charges laid, or trials pending isn't a whole lot better.
the whole thing has become a goddamned fucking mess. |
|
|
| Jack Shit |
| They were Terrorists. And if they weren't Terrorists, they were going to become Terrorists. If we don't detain Junior Terrorists, the Terrorists win. |
|
|
| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by Jack Shit
They were Terrorists. And if they weren't Terrorists, they were going to become Terrorists. If we don't detain Junior Terrorists, the Terrorists win. |
I think it goes: The children were not terrorists and if they weren't terrorists they are going to become terrorists because a bunch of foriengers pulled them off the streets for no reason (that they can see) and put them in jail. If that happened to you, you would end up a terrorist too.
Are you advicating the wholesale slaughter of all the children? Cause it is only God that is into that shit. |
|
|
| Jack Shit |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
I think it goes: The children were not terrorists and if they weren't terrorists they are going to become terrorists because a bunch of foriengers pulled them off the streets for no reason (that they can see) and put them in jail. If that happened to you, you would end up a terrorist too.
Are you advicating the wholesale slaughter of all the children? Cause it is only God that is into that shit. |
Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out. Innocent or not, they're all Terrorists and if we don't kill the innocent along with the guilty, the Terrorists win. :)
 |
|
|
| Max-the-Silent |
AB, I'm the first one to stand up for children, but war is a whole different subject from the criminal justice system - I don't know the circumstances involving where or how these kids were captured, But in this world we live in, kids are used as combatants, and are just as capable of active participation in combat as an adult.
The VC and the NVA used kids in VN, this is nothing new, and a kid can kill you just as dead as the most trained go-fast operator that ever lived.
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Can't wait to hear the excuses for this. Locking up 14 year old children with adults and holding them for YEARS without a trial is against the law no matter how you look at it... |
|
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
No one is saying the kids are innocent yet. But it is against virtually all known laws to hold children in adult prisons. And not ever charging them or giving them a trial is another thing... |
Virtually against all known laws??? What about unknown laws?? HAHA. Please recite these known laws you speak of.
If they were caught in battle, or fighting with the enemy, then they are prisoners of war. If the war goes on for 20 years, we should hold them until at least that time.
As usual, this is much to do about nothing. |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Virtually against all known laws??? What about unknown laws?? HAHA. Please recite these known laws you speak of.
If they were caught in battle, or fighting with the enemy, then they are prisoners of war. If the war goes on for 20 years, we should hold them until at least that time.
As usual, this is much to do about nothing. |
Well it seems you idiots need to make up your mind. You say they are "prisoners of war", yet you don't feel any of the internationally agreed upon human rights laws regarding POWs apply to them?
Once again the contradictions within your position are just unbelievable and predictably immoral.
Quote:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/01/09/usdom6917.htm
Under the Optional Protocol on Child Soldiers, which the United States has ratified, the U.S. government has specific legal obligations, including rehabilitation and reintegration of child combatants into their societies. The detainees aged sixteen and seventeen have not received the special protections required by international standards, including separation from adult prisoners, as is the case with the three younger detainees. Rehabilitation cannot happen in a detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, half a world away from their homes and families. The U.S. government should resolve the cases of all of the children held at Guantanamo without further delay. Indeed, the ICRC has stated that it does not consider Guantanamo an appropriate place to detain juveniles. |
Keep trying, Mike. You really expose yourself as a Bush whore when you defend something like this. |
|
|
| DREAD |
Kids are just as capable of firing an AK as an adult-
Look at Africa if you need a modern example. I hardly call a 14 a child. Especially by world standards. |
|
|
| Allan D'Angelo |
I don't consider adolescents children either, but the bigger issue here is that we are holding probably thousands of individuals without any oversight or accountability.
Unless all of the prisoners are going to be executed or jailed for life, we will be releasing thousands of future terrorists who will have a real beef with America that is just not fueled by religious rhetoric and dogma.
We are a great model for human rights and democracy for the Middle East, Africa, and Southern Asia. :( |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DREAD
Kids are just as capable of firing an AK as an adult-
Look at Africa if you need a modern example. I hardly call a 14 a child. Especially by world standards. |
Like I said, no one said the kids are innocent. But international laws that the US has ratified make special provisions for not holding children in adult prison populations, and giving them priority in the judicial process.
There is no judicial process in Guantanamo.
Bush claims the people held their are the same as POWs, yet he doesn't want to follow the laws governing treatment of POWs.
Perhaps the worst part of his behavior is that he has destroyed the moral high ground the US used to hold on treatment of prisoners. This will no doubt affect the way any US soldiers are treated should they be taken hostage in the future... |
|
|
| DREAD |
Ooops I pasted in the wrong area!
The expression kid needs to be defined |
|
|
| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Virtually against all known laws??? What about unknown laws?? HAHA. Please recite these known laws you speak of.
If they were caught in battle, or fighting with the enemy, then they are prisoners of war. If the war goes on for 20 years, we should hold them until at least that time.
As usual, this is much to do about nothing. |
And this is the plan to win the "Hearts and Minds" of the iraqi people? |
|
|
| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by DREAD
Ooops I pasted in the wrong area!
The expression kid needs to be defined |
As far as I am concerened it was posted in the right area. Yummy. |
|
|
| DREAD |
The term, in my opinion, child, refers to the innocence of a child. When that innocence is lost, the most precious element of a child is lost- as that child is now an adult.
All you have to do is look into the eyes of a child who has pulled the triggar or pulled the pin or pushed the plunger- children run from danger it is instinctive. Adult with the intent and desire to kill to not.
I do not care what age you are- standing and fighting is a very difficult decision to make. Every time you pass the LOD you reafirm your commitment to kill to survive- kill to live- kill to protect your buddies- kill for the sake of killing because it is what you are there to do.
Even though it soon becomes instinctive to double tap targets as they move in a ghost like focused surreal environment- a simple squeeze of the triggar and an unconcious aim that kills, the act of affirming to do what is to be done is not a childs decision. Age is lost at that point- as the innocence of the child was lost long before the child was encountered on some long forgotten battle field. |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DREAD
The term, in my opinion, child, refers to the innocence of a child. When that innocence is lost, the most precious element of a child is lost- as that child is now an adult.
All you have to do is look into the eyes of a child who has pulled the triggar or pulled the pin or pushed the plunger- children run from danger it is instinctive. Adult with the intent and desire to kill to not.
I do not care what age you are- standing and fighting is a very difficult decision to make. Every time you pass the LOD you reafirm your commitment to kill to survive- kill to live- kill to protect your buddies- kill for the sake of killing because it is what you are there to do.
Even though it soon becomes instinctive to double tap targets as they move in a ghost like focused surreal environment- a simple squeeze of the triggar and an unconcious aim that kills, the act of affirming to do what is to be done is not a childs decision. Age is lost at that point- as the innocence of the child was lost long before the child was encountered on some long forgotten battle field. |
I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but the difference is that adults typically CHOOSE to fight, while most child soldiers are forced into it, taken advantage of by adults, just as child laborers and child prostitutes are.
There is a reason our justice system is set up to separate crimes by children vs. adults.
That's not to say they shouldn't be punished. But it's a biological fact that a child is not mentally, or emotionally equipped to make decisions like an adult is... nor physically able to defend themselves if thrown into a predatory adult prison population... |
|
|
| DREAD |
| I agree that the child may become a soldier- drug dealer- prostitute- slave by means not always theirs- but the end result is that they have lost their innocence. Do you mix a child soldier in a jail with child thieves? |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DREAD
I agree that the child may become a soldier- drug dealer- prostitute- slave by means not always theirs- but the end result is that they have lost their innocence. Do you mix a child soldier in a jail with child thieves? |
Yes. Because while both may have lost their innocence, albeit in different ways, they both have the same immaturity. An adult can teach a child who they are supposed to kill or steal from, and the child will do so without question, often not knowing why they are doing it, other than they were asked to... That is far different from an adult who makes a decision to kill or steal, knowing the consequences and possible effects of their actions... |
|
|
| clonetrooper |
| 14 years old knows the difference between right and wrong. If they are shooting at the troops than they go with the big boys. |
|
|
| Ironpirate |
| im assboil and Im for the enemy |
|
|
| cashflow |
| I'm AssPirate and I am the enemy. |
|
|
| Ironpirate |
| yes because im against everything and hate everything, sure |
|
|
| Crazytree |
| can you imagine if another country had a prison full of American children? |
|
|
| BeerPal |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
yes because im against everything and hate everything, sure |
You're a fuckin' idiot. Too ignorant to know what this country used to stand for and too stupid to understand why the rest of the world used to look up to us as a bastion of freedom. But you keep on supporting the criminals in the White House and their policies. I'm sure everything will work out fine. |
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Well it seems you idiots need to make up your mind. You say they are "prisoners of war", yet you don't feel any of the internationally agreed upon human rights laws regarding POWs apply to them?
Once again the contradictions within your position are just unbelievable and predictably immoral.
Keep trying, Mike. You really expose yourself as a Bush whore when you defend something like this. |
Ohh, well, of course, if the International Human Rights idiots say we are wrong, we MUST be wrong. Maybe they should focus on countries that are true violators of human rights. Maybe you should too. |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Ohh, well, of course, if the International Human Rights idiots say we are wrong, we MUST be wrong. Maybe they should focus on countries that are true violators of human rights. Maybe you should too. |
Ahh, good ole reliable, right, Mike? When you run out of excuses for Bush's behavior, just point the finger at someone else, right?
The US has ratified the international laws that cover children in these situations. Since you are a scumbag Bush apologist, I don't expect you to have enough honor to respect that fact, but it remains true.
So now maybe you can attempt to be honest and ask yourself why Bush feels he is above the law? |
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Ahh, good ole reliable, right, Mike? When you run out of excuses for Bush's behavior, just point the finger at someone else, right?
The US has ratified the international laws that cover children in these situations. Since you are a scumbag Bush apologist, I don't expect you to have enough honor to respect that fact, but it remains true.
So now maybe you can attempt to be honest and ask yourself why Bush feels he is above the law? |
But is still only the opinion of the hate america international crowd (you being the chairman of the local branch, I am sure) that says the 'laws were broken' .
Maybe you should focus on Cuba, where violations of human rights is a way of life. I would have mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan, but thanks to Bush, those countries don't fall into that category anymore.
Keep on America hatin....it's what you do best. |
|
|
| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Maybe you should focus on Cuba, where violations of human rights is a way of life. I would have mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan, but thanks to Bush, those countries don't fall into that category anymore. |
You should be totally ignored. Anyone who spits such unadulterated bullshit is either stupid and trolling.
In your case, I'll give ya both. |
|
|
| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Maybe you should focus on Cuba, where violations of human rights is a way of life. I would have mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan, but thanks to Bush, those countries don't fall into that category anymore.
Keep on America hatin....it's what you do best. |
We don't live in Cuba. Are you saying that the standard that we should hold American presidents to are the same for lil no account dictatorships?
You think there are no human rights abuses in Iraq?? You are insane. Does the word genocide ring any kind of moral bell for you NCMike? Are you that blind? Do you have any ethics compass of your own or do you just follow Bush's? |
|
|
| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
But is still only the opinion of the hate america international crowd (you being the chairman of the local branch, I am sure) that says the 'laws were broken' .
Maybe you should focus on Cuba, where violations of human rights is a way of life. I would have mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan, but thanks to Bush, those countries don't fall into that category anymore.
Keep on America hatin....it's what you do best. |
WTF?
Cuba is a fucking paradise compared to the disasters that are Iraq/Afghanistan.
You are right about human rights violations in Cuba Mike, unfortunately they are taking place on the U.S. controlled portion
of the island.
(only half joking about the last point :( ) |
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
WTF?
Cuba is a fucking paradise compared to the disasters that are Iraq/Afghanistan.
You are right about human rights violations in Cuba Mike, unfortunately they are taking place on the U.S. controlled portion
of the island.
(only half joking about the last point :( ) |
Wow...the Blame America/America hating crowd is out in full force. Gitmo is a paradise compared to Cuba.
You have been so brainwashed it's pathetic. |
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
We don't live in Cuba. Are you saying that the standard that we should hold American presidents to are the same for lil no account dictatorships?
You think there are no human rights abuses in Iraq?? You are insane. Does the word genocide ring any kind of moral bell for you NCMike? Are you that blind? Do you have any ethics compass of your own or do you just follow Bush's? |
No, the exact opposite actually. We should (and the international community as well) hold Cuba to the same standards that we set and maintain. The transgressions of countries like Cuba are easily ignored by the America hating crowd, especially at the UN. This is a crime in and of itself.
Any rights abuses in Iraq currently, pale in comparison to those of the Saddam era. It's not even close. |
|
|
| Billyfromsphily |
| Well how do you account for being brain dead? |
|
|
| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Wow...the Blame America/America hating crowd is out in full force. Gitmo is a paradise compared to Cuba.
You have been so brainwashed it's pathetic. |
Actually I've been to cuba 5 times, been in Havana each time,
and while freedom of the press, expression, and association
are not allowed the people of Cuba themselves , while surely poor are not unhappy.
It is so many Americans like yourself who have been brainwashed by your own gov't into thinking Cuba is some giant gulag
that are dillusional.
And yes thing could be better in Cuba than they are, but compared to other nations in the region they really aren't a whole lot worse off. |
|
|
| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
No, the exact opposite actually. We should (and the international community as well) hold Cuba to the same standards that we set and maintain. The transgressions of countries like Cuba are easily ignored by the America hating crowd, especially at the UN. This is a crime in and of itself.
Any rights abuses in Iraq currently, pale in comparison to those of the Saddam era. It's not even close. |
Get your facts straight. First you spout GWB ended human rights violations in Iraq and Afganistan, a fucking ludicrous claim and then say the violations are not as bad as when Saddam was in power.
Get a fucking clue, if this continues, people will be calling for Saddam to be reinstated.
IRAQ DEATH TOLL IN THIRD YEAR
OF OCCUPATION IS HIGHEST YET
The civilian death toll has risen inexorably for the entire duration of the US-led military presence in Iraq following the initial invasion. That is the grim reality uncovered by ongoing tracking of media reports by the Iraq Body Count project (IBC).
Figures released by IBC today, updated by statistics for the year 2005 from the main Baghdad morgue, show that the total number of civilians reported killed has risen year-on-year since May 1st 2003 (the date that President Bush announced “major combat operations have ended”):
6,331 from 1st May 2003 to the first anniversary of the invasion, 19th March 2004 (324 days: Year 1)
11,312 from 20th March 2004 to 19th March 2005 (365 days: Year 2)
12,617 from 20th March 2005 to 1st March 2006 (346 days: Year 3).
In terms of average violent deaths per day this represents:
20 per day in Year 1
31 per day in Year 2 and
36 per day in Year 3.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/press/pr13.php |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Maybe you should focus on Cuba, where violations of human rights is a way of life. I would have mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan, but thanks to Bush, those countries don't fall into that category anymore.
Keep on America hatin....it's what you do best. |
Stop hiding behind the flag, coward.
We are not talking about Cuba, we are talking about George W. Bush and his rendition of 14 and 15 year olds to an adult prison where they were NEVER charged with a crime, or even given a day in court. Stop trying to change the subject.
As for Iraq and Afghanistan, a SANE person might say that killing more than 100,000 innocent civilians in an unneeded invasion of Iraq COULD be a human rights violation. Or allowing the country to be looted or without electricity or jobs 3 years after said invasion, not to mention the ethnic cleansing that is now going on because Herr Bush didn't plan for the disputes between the 3 major ethnic groups struggling for power...
And I'm sure the people of Afghanistan are just thrilled that we bombed their country even FURTHER back into the stone age, and then rushed off to invade Iraq, allowing their country to become even more of a narco-state than it already was, and the Taliban to gain power again...
You are so completely separated from reality, it is pathetic. Really very pathetic... |
|
|
| Ironpirate |
assboil i care what you say, lol
please enough of your bullshit |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
assboil i care what you say, lol
please enough of your bullshit |
The day I care what you think about anything is the day I kill myself...
You should just concentrate on tying your own shoes and wiping your own ass, little coward... |
|
|
| Ironpirate |
| lil coward, more man then you are |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
lil coward, more man then you are |
LOL. You are a living joke.
Yeah, you're one of those "manly" men who thinks war is cool as long as no one asks you to put your desk job on hold... Very brave...
You are a snivelling little pussy. |
|
|
| sternowitz |
| We as a democracy fucked up big time over the last 6 years. WE have allowed fear to overtake us. We never stood up for American principals that our forefathers died for. The president is a hypocrity. He obviously the worst leader we have ever had and has done so much to bankrupt this country morally, financially and socially it will take decades to recover. Go fuck yourself ass pirate and NC mike. |
|
|
| Ironpirate |
| Quote: He obviously the worst leader we have ever had and has done so much to bankrupt this country morally, financially and socially it will take decades to recover |
I dont know whats more funnier this or assboils little cock |
|
|
| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
I dont know whats more funnier this or assboils little cock |
Ass Pirate, I think I'll leave the evaluation of ass boil's cock to you.
As to what's funny..., your grammar and unabashed display of stupidity is to this forum as Gary's fuckups is to the Stern show.
Fuckin Retaaaard! |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
I dont know whats more funnier this or assboils little cock |
There you go again with that Gannon talk... why are you obsessed with my cock? You better chill with that shit. If the military hears you making that gay talk, they won't let you in...
Of course you would first have to have enough balls to walk into a recruiting office... we all know that isn't going to happen. |
|
|
| Crazytree |
Using Republican logic... anything less tragic than the Holocaust is beyond criticism because... "WHY DON'T YOU TALK ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST INSTEAD?"
BTW anyone remember when Singapore was going to CANE some 16yo American asshole kid and the whole country was up in arms? |
|
|
| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
I dont know whats more funnier this or assboils little cock |
More funnier. That is more humorious!! hahah
I can't believe that you graduated from a degree issuing institution. That school should have its credentials removed. |
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
Actually I've been to cuba 5 times, been in Havana each time,
and while freedom of the press, expression, and association
are not allowed the people of Cuba themselves , while surely poor are not unhappy.
It is so many Americans like yourself who have been brainwashed by your own gov't into thinking Cuba is some giant gulag
that are dillusional.
And yes thing could be better in Cuba than they are, but compared to other nations in the region they really aren't a whole lot worse off. |
And how many of these happy people would you say that Castro has had murdered the past 45+ years. I worked with someone whose husband is very active in the Cuban American movement. She would tell about things that would curl your hair. Just one thing...in nearly every neighborhood in Cuba there is a person who is a spy for the government. If that spy does not give information every month on someone in the neighborhood, the spy then disappears. The person the spy turns in for any trumped up charge will not face a pleasant future to say the least. How is it that the international community allows things like this, and no freedom of press, association, or expression, to be tolerated while they have the nerve to chastise the US about anything. Especially from the UN, which is made up of mostly dictatorial regimes to begin with. It's a joke. |
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Stop hiding behind the flag, coward.
We are not talking about Cuba, we are talking about George W. Bush and his rendition of 14 and 15 year olds to an adult prison where they were NEVER charged with a crime, or even given a day in court. Stop trying to change the subject.
As for Iraq and Afghanistan, a SANE person might say that killing more than 100,000 innocent civilians in an unneeded invasion of Iraq COULD be a human rights violation. Or allowing the country to be looted or without electricity or jobs 3 years after said invasion, not to mention the ethnic cleansing that is now going on because Herr Bush didn't plan for the disputes between the 3 major ethnic groups struggling for power...
And I'm sure the people of Afghanistan are just thrilled that we bombed their country even FURTHER back into the stone age, and then rushed off to invade Iraq, allowing their country to become even more of a narco-state than it already was, and the Taliban to gain power again...
You are so completely separated from reality, it is pathetic. Really very pathetic... |
Stop trying to destroy the country, coward.
Ok...your non-facts are screwed up again...first you said it was 120,000 (innocent lives) killed in Iraq, then 110,000, now its 100,000. At the rate you are going, you will be closer to the actual figure in a week or so. The true figure still is insignificant when compared to the amount Saddam killed. But that's ok, since he is your boy. The defense is up now in the Saddam trial, when is the date you will be testifying as a character witness. I would love to see you defend the murderous tyrant in front of some of the people that he terrorized for so many years.
Wow...so the Taliban is in power again in Afghanistan? ..that would probably be news to the real leaders in Afghanistan. Could it be that you are stating something that is once again, absolutely and totally false. I bet the Afghani people just loved the talibani rule. Total oppression, total domination. Sounds like a liberal's dream government. No wonder you seem to prefer it so. |
|
|
| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
I bet the Afghani people just loved the talibani rule. Total oppression, total domination. Sounds like a liberal's dream government. No wonder you seem to prefer it so. |
A liberal's dream. Where do you get this? When have we ever supported that? You talk about blind hate for Bush then you make blanket statements comparing us to the Taliban.
The truth is that the Republican religious right is closer to the Taliban then any progressive is. |
|
|
| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
The truth is that the Republican religious right is closer to the Taliban then any progressive is. |
*SLAP* |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
You know you bring up a good point, Mike. How many DID Saddam kill? Even the nutjob right wing estimates I have seen put it at about 300,000 POSSIBLY over a 30 year reign. So let's do the math: Bush kills over 100,000 in 3 years, while Saddam took 30 years to MAYBE kill 300,000....
Use your amazing Republican powers of deduction to tell us who the more efficient killer is, eh?
All for non existent WMD that we sold him?
Give me a fucking break. |
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
You know you bring up a good point, Mike. How many DID Saddam kill? Even the nutjob right wing estimates I have seen put it at about 300,000 POSSIBLY over a 30 year reign. So let's do the math: Bush kills over 100,000 in 3 years, while Saddam took 30 years to MAYBE kill 300,000....
Use your amazing Republican powers of deduction to tell us who the more efficient killer is, eh?
All for non existent WMD that we sold him?
Give me a fucking break. |
Wow...for the first time, your non facts were kept straight. You used 100,000 2 posts in a row. You must have been looking at the same talking points sheet. Maybe tomorrow a new one will come, and you'll change the number again. |
|
|
| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Wow...for the first time, your non facts were kept straight. You used 100,000 2 posts in a row. You must have been looking at the same talking points sheet. Maybe tomorrow a new one will come, and you'll change the number again. |
Hi I am NCMike. When I can't make a point I like to attack by calling people a liberal. That is the worse thing you can be in the world. Beware!
My second favorite thing to do is say "Talking points". It magically makes what ever anyone says irrelevent. Does not matter what the content is. You don't even have to address if it is true or not. 2+2=4 unless it is inconvient for Bush. Then it is a talking point to say 2+2=4 and that the person must really be a Bush hater to think it equals anything but 5.
Hey Mike you still have not addressed Bush's record on pollution in Texass. Is he someone you trust to monitor air quality or global warming? I wonder how oil companies feel about air quality. I wonder if there is a conflict of interest?
NCMikes most likely response:
*****BOO***** Liberal talking point****** POOF***** |
|
|
| Ironpirate |
| Quote: Bush kills over 100,000 in 3 years, while Saddam took 30 years to MAYBE kill 300,000.... |
i dont see the problem with this, lol |
|
|
| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
I am so glad Iron Pirate is a conservative. Such an emmbarassment!
Poor NCMike is trying to put a good face on the GOP and he has a couple of retards showing how his base really feels. |
|
|
| Ironpirate |
| yet we keep winning, hmmm |
|
|
| Crazytree |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
And how many of these happy people would you say that Castro has had murdered the past 45+ years. I worked with someone whose husband is very active in the Cuban American movement. She would tell about things that would curl your hair. Just one thing...in nearly every neighborhood in Cuba there is a person who is a spy for the government. If that spy does not give information every month on someone in the neighborhood, the spy then disappears. The person the spy turns in for any trumped up charge will not face a pleasant future to say the least. How is it that the international community allows things like this, and no freedom of press, association, or expression, to be tolerated while they have the nerve to chastise the US about anything. Especially from the UN, which is made up of mostly dictatorial regimes to begin with. It's a joke. |
But if Castro did all his spying through wiretaps would it be ok?
Keep in mind that people like your friend HAVE BEEN TRYING TO ASSASSINATE HIM FOR THE PAST 50 YEARS. How dare he try and stop his assassins.
How fucking dare him. |
|
|
| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
yet we keep winning, hmmm |
Right because there are a lot of ignorant people like you looking for someone to follow. Keep on that mission of trying to become "cool" |
|
|
| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
Right because there are a lot of ignorant people like you looking for someone to follow. Keep on that mission of trying to become "cool" |
Ass Pirate is going to be one of those guys that wonders what the fuck happened to his team come this November. |
|
|
| Ironpirate |
| what well still have majority in the house and senate again? |
|
|
| Turbo_Nerd_Eric |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
what well still have majority in the house and senate again? |
What, we'll still have a majority in congress?
Just trying to help. That's what we progressives do.
Noticed you took down your myspace account link. Awwww it was so entertaining.
Keep working towards being cool. |
|
|
| Billyfromsphily |
Quote: Originally posted by Turbo_Nerd_Eric
I am so glad Iron Pirate is a conservative. Such an emmbarassment!
Poor NCMike is trying to put a good face on the GOP and he has a couple of retards showing how his base really feels. |
Well the approval ratings say that the Republicans are in poor field position and goning to have to punt soon. |
|
|
| Ironpirate |
| theyll stop them on defense and get an interception for a touchdown, woooyaaa |
|
|
| Billyfromsphily |
| Don't worry W will drop the ball and then blaim the defeat on the lying sportscasters who hate him. |
|
|
| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
And how many of these happy people would you say that Castro has had murdered the past 45+ years. I worked with someone whose husband is very active in the Cuban American movement. She would tell about things that would curl your hair. Just one thing...in nearly every neighborhood in Cuba there is a person who is a spy for the government. If that spy does not give information every month on someone in the neighborhood, the spy then disappears. The person the spy turns in for any trumped up charge will not face a pleasant future to say the least. How is it that the international community allows things like this, and no freedom of press, association, or expression, to be tolerated while they have the nerve to chastise the US about anything. Especially from the UN, which is made up of mostly dictatorial regimes to begin with. It's a joke. |
40,000 in 45 years, compared to 100,000 in 3
now i'm not saying Cuba is a shining jewel of the western world, but hardly the biggest human rights violator in the world either.
The Un and world community chastises America more than cuba for one simple reason, you cannot sit and say you are the home of democracy, and freedom, and then deny basic human rights to individuals, rights put into laws by international agreements that the US has signed.
And what are the motives of the members of the Cuban American movement? or do you just blindly believe everything your told if it fits into your view of the world? |
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Billyfromsphily
Well the approval ratings say that the Republicans are in poor field position and goning to have to punt soon. |
I don't try to put a good face on anything or anyone. I am a conservative who happens to be in the Republican party. No punting here...you forget that the Democrats have the ability to lose a game where they are the only players. I fully trust in their incompetence. |
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
40,000 in 45 years, compared to 100,000 in 3
now i'm not saying Cuba is a shining jewel of the western world, but hardly the biggest human rights violator in the world either.
The Un and world community chastises America more than cuba for one simple reason, you cannot sit and say you are the home of democracy, and freedom, and then deny basic human rights to individuals, rights put into laws by international agreements that the US has signed.
And what are the motives of the members of the Cuban American movement? or do you just blindly believe everything your told if it fits into your view of the world? |
Your numbers are interesting, in that they are false, and its also interesting that the Bush haters attribute all Iraqi deaths to Bush.
Trust me, Cuba is in the top 5 of Human rights violators, easily.
The motives of the Cuban American movement is to see their relatives and friends live under a democracy where they have a chance to prosper, express themselves, live without fear of being taken away by the government for no reason, prisoned for no reason, or killed for no reason.
You have no idea what you are talking about if you think Cuba isnt a den of human rights abuses. Communism, in and of itself, is a human rights abuse. (that would be news though to the wanna be communists on this board)
Who is the UN to lecture ANYONE about human rights abuses. It is full of dictatorial regimes who specialize in human rights atrocities. |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
| Wow. Such wisdom from from one of the last stowaways on the sinking SS Bush... |
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Wow. Such wisdom from from one of the last stowaways on the sinking SS Bush... |
SO early to judge....the haters never learn. They just hate. |
|
|
| Ass Boil |
LOL. You telling someone they "never learn" is one of the funniest things I've ever read on this forum...
The guy still using debunked 2002 talking points accusing people of not learning...LMAO |
|
|
| Crazytree |
| NCMike is a great learner. He learns and then repeats exactly the talking points he gets off of Hannity. |
|
|
| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree
NCMike is a great learner. He learns and then repeats exactly the talking points he gets off of Hannity. |
Sorry, I can't stand listening to Hannity. Sorry, more moronic BS from Crazytree..
Next.. |
|
|
|
|
|
