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Immoral Republicans Reject Minumum Wage Hike
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| Immoral Republicans Reject Minumum Wage Hike
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| Ass Boil |
Ask Republicans to cut taxes for the most wealthy members of society: Done.
Ask Republicans to lie about a country's connections to 9/11 so they can send our young troops into an unnecessary conflict: Done.
Ask Republicans to froth at the mouth over gays who want to marry each other: Done.
Just don't ask them to raise the federal minimum wage from $5.15/hr. to $7.25/hr.
The best part? Minimum wage hasn't been raised since 1997. Over that same time period, our lawmakers have given themselves raises totalling $31,000...
And thanks to Bush's economic policies, the actual value of minimum wage is it's lowest in 51 years.
http://www.epinet.org/issuebriefs/224/ib224.pdf |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
One lame excuse and talking point to defend this is, well why not raise it to 100 dollars and eliminate poverty? Why not pick any arbitrary figure?
They neglect to finish the thought process and realize they have already picked an arbitrary figure of 5.15.
Several states and localities have already raised the minimum wage of their own. News flash; the sky has not fallen. |
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| Oz |
| this is an insult to not only min wage workers but to us all that work salary - congress works for us - the inmates running the asylum |
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| Crazytree |
| another major victory for Wal-Mart. |
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| Kissyphur |
| republicans are fuckers. vote libertarian, they pretty much would legalize sex with hookers and sex in public. |
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| incoherent |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark
One lame excuse and talking point to defend this is, well why not raise it to 100 dollars and eliminate poverty? Why not pick any arbitrary figure?
They neglect to finish the thought process and realize they have already picked an arbitrary figure of 5.15.
Several states and localities have already raised the minimum wage of their own. News flash; the sky has not fallen. |
That is supposed to be a DEFENSE? This is supposed to defend the immoral republicans who enrich themselves while running up huge deficits to bankrupt our children? That the minimum wage is an arbitrary number?
Good lord. The billions of tax dollars that the republicans give away to Exxon is an ARBITRARY number. Will you condem the Repubs for that because the number of billions given away in welfare for the wealthy is arbitrary?
I'm not surprised the far-righties are hiding from this topic. Even the most extreme of them can't justify this.
If this is the best they can do no woder repubs are going to be voted out in big numbers this fall. |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark
One lame excuse and talking point to defend this is, well why not raise it to 100 dollars and eliminate poverty? Why not pick any arbitrary figure?
They neglect to finish the thought process and realize they have already picked an arbitrary figure of 5.15.
Several states and localities have already raised the minimum wage of their own. News flash; the sky has not fallen. |
Baloney. Then why didn't they leave it to the states to lower taxes for the wealthy if they see fit, or to deal with gay marriage?
It is a matter of priorities. Keeping labor CHEAP is one of their priorities, not helping people out of poverty. That is immoral. |
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| ihatecabbie |
Quote: Originally posted by Kissyphur
republicans are fuckers. vote libertarian, they pretty much would legalize sex with hookers and sex in public. |
A true libertarian would advocate for no minimum wage at all. |
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| Oz |
Quote: Originally posted by ihatecabbie
A true libertarian would advocate for no minimum wage at all. |
a true libertarian would also advocate that we all have our own personal nuclear explosives - let's not get to crazy |
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| Ass Boil |
That's right. Libertarians are supposed to be against any form of government regulation outside of the bare minimum of taxes to keep a shrunken government running... Private corporations, who obviously have all our best interests in mind, and not simply making money for themselves, would provide most of the "services" our government currently does...
Libertarianism = Utopianism |
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| HighPitchHoward |
| Of the 1000 stupid, destructive and irresponsible things Bush and the republicraps have done, this doesn't even make the list. |
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| Ass Boil |
I disagree. Forcing millions into poverty with your economic policies is serious business...
Republicans hate poor people, but go out of their way to make sure that people wanting to work cannot survive on the paltry wages they offer them... |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
I disagree. Forcing millions into poverty with your economic policies is serious business...
Republicans hate poor people, but go out of their way to make sure that people wanting to work cannot survive on the paltry wages they offer them... |
Link
Last year, 1.9 million workers — 2.5% of hourly earners — earned $5.15 or less, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Pay for millions of others is influenced by the wage.
Couple that with a sane health care plan and we may make some progress.
Oh yeah, don't forget to stop the flood of low wage workers coming over the border and severely punish any employer who hires illegals.
Start punishing those corporations who are jettisoning US jobs and going overseas to exploit cheap labor as well.
Ahhhh, fuck. I may as well just rejoin the Democratic party... I just may if they will leave my fucking guns alone... |
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| oxygen man |
| I don't know what state you all are from but Pa just passed a unanimous vote to raise min wage from $5.10 an hour to $7.10 an hour affective July 2007. I think it should be a state issue for each state has a different cost of living. |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark
Link
Last year, 1.9 million workers — 2.5% of hourly earners — earned $5.15 or less, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Pay for millions of others is influenced by the wage.
Couple that with a sane health care plan and we may make some progress.
Oh yeah, don't forget to stop the flood of low wage workers coming over the border and severely punish any employer who hires illegals.
Start punishing those corporations who are jettisoning US jobs and going overseas to exploit cheap labor as well.
Ahhhh, fuck. I may as well just rejoin the Democratic party... I just may if they will leave my fucking guns alone... |
LOL, I have a hard time joining them, also...
I agree with everything you said. The part the Republicans don't want to talk about is how the lower and middle classes can really drive the economy when they have more money in their pockets... |
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| Oz |
Quote: Originally posted by oxygen man
I don't know what state you all are from but Pa just passed a unanimous vote to raise min wage from $5.10 an hour to $7.10 an hour affective July 2007. I think it should be a state issue for each state has a different cost of living. |
good point - they're doing the same thing in chicago for all "big box" stores - any store over 90k sf - basically Wal-Marts - raising it to 10 bucks an hour and some overage of 3 bucks for bennies |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by oxygen man
I don't know what state you all are from but Pa just passed a unanimous vote to raise min wage from $5.10 an hour to $7.10 an hour affective July 2007. I think it should be a state issue for each state has a different cost of living. |
I am in PA also. I agree with you, but there should be a base set by the federal government. I don't know of any place, even rural, where one can live on $5.15/ hr... $7.25 an hour is not too much to ask, considering the constant rise in cost of living.
The fact that Congress has given themselves $31,000 in raises over the same period should be the prime example for raising it. Unless their position is they didn't deserve or need the raises...LOL |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
LOL, I have a hard time joining them, also...
I agree with everything you said. The part the Republicans don't want to talk about is how the lower and middle classes can really drive the economy when they have more money in their pockets... |
Well there in lies the great contradiction. Republicans claim that tax cuts do exactly that, put money in peoples hands and they go spend it yet they refuse to raise the minimum wage.
When Bush first took office and sent out all those child-credit checks, he said he expected a boost in the economy because people would spend the money...
To me, there's no difference in theory between the government handing out checks to people and any other government program that keeps money in people's pocket. Yet Republicans deplore "give-a-way" programs and embrace corporate welfare. Give to who you like and who likes you is more like it for the GOP.
Meanwhile... Fuck the little guy. |
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| B.A. Baracus60 |
In the "give-a-way" program the little guy still pays for it through his taxes (since Bush has made sure that get the blunt of the taxes) But if the GOP raised minimum wage then it would cut into the profits of their favorite companies.
So it's ok to give the little guy his money back, and then take it again through his taxes, but they sure don't want to hurt the poor suffering rich. |
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| Oz |
| anyone have the list of who voted to not block the pay raise? 65 voted to not block it 33 voted to block it - would love to see the breakdown |
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| Hand_Solo |
Can anyone explain to me why we just can't let the market figure this out? After all, you don't HAVE to take a job that you can't live on.
And Ass Boil, as much as I am entertained by the firey brand of your tongue, how could you possibly know what Republicans truly know or feel? Based on your biased observations?
Well, if we wanted to get hyperbolic (i.e. "Republicans hate poor people"), I could say that Democrats think all people are too soft to be called mean names or even hear mean words, our country should never defend itself until a global panel of 75 nations conducting 75 separate investigations into possible agression reach a unanimous decision sanctioning the act, and that poor people are too stupid to help themselves and that the only way to help them is by feeding the behemoth and hoping some of its excrement lands on their plates.
I leave you with some ideas by our country's best Republican president, Abraham Lincoln. In this you will see a damning of both modern democrats and modern republicans.
"You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. You cannot establish security on borrowed money. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves. |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by Hand_Solo
Can anyone explain to me why we just can't let the market figure this out? After all, you don't HAVE to take a job that you can't live on. |
What would you suggest they do then?
Go on welfare?
Not everyone is able or capable of furthering their education. |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Hand_Solo
Can anyone explain to me why we just can't let the market figure this out? After all, you don't HAVE to take a job that you can't live on.
And Ass Boil, as much as I am entertained by the firey brand of your tongue, how could you possibly know what Republicans truly know or feel? Based on your biased observations?
Well, if we wanted to get hyperbolic (i.e. "Republicans hate poor people"), I could say that Democrats think all people are too soft to be called mean names or even hear mean words, our country should never defend itself until a global panel of 75 nations conducting 75 separate investigations into possible agression reach a unanimous decision sanctioning the act, and that poor people are too stupid to help themselves and that the only way to help them is by feeding the behemoth and hoping some of its excrement lands on their plates.
I leave you with some ideas by our country's best Republican president, Abraham Lincoln. In this you will see a damning of both modern democrats and modern republicans.
"You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. You cannot establish security on borrowed money. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves. |
Well that's all great, HS, but if Republicans followed that doctrine, we would not be having this discussion, would we?
Attempting to give the proverbial "little guy" a level playing field has always been perceived by the "big guy" as a threat to their bottom line, which is all they are worried about. For years Republicans have been crowing that raising the minimum wage would ruin the economy, just like environmental controls will ruin the economy and unions and everything else that helps protect the bottom 90% of our society. But why do they continue to give themselves raises that individually amount to 3 times what a person making the current min. wage makes in a year?
The current min. wage puts a person below the poverty line. Why is it wrong to expect better from the wealthiest nation on the planet? |
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| DUDE-HERE |
| waaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaah how about getting a better job min wage jobs are not for people to raise families on or support yourself your entire life. they are there to teach you how to work and then move on to better things |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
waaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaah how about getting a better job min wage jobs are not for people to raise families on or support yourself your entire life. they are there to teach you how to work and then move on to better things |
I never said anyone should be able to raise a family on minimum wage. Even a single person with no offspring cannot survive on $10,000 a year. In a country as wealthy as ours, the WORST someone should be doing is living above the poverty line. Then when your normal paying job lays you off because George Bush gave your company an incentive to outsource your job, at least you will be able to feed yourself while you rebuild your life...
And you only show your ignorance by implying that anyone in this country can just run out and get a "get a better job". You know as well as I do that is not how it works... In some parts of this country those "better jobs" don't even exist. |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
waaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaah how about getting a better job min wage jobs are not for people to raise families on or support yourself your entire life. they are there to teach you how to work and then move on to better things |
How about multi-billion dollar corporations take a little bit of their profits and pay their employees a decent wage, so that they don't have to rely on Gov't assistance to make ends meet?
Or are you content to pay taxes that go to providing health care
and other services to workers so that the Wal-Marts of the world can fatten their bottom line? |
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| B.A. Baracus60 |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
waaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaah how about getting a better job min wage jobs are not for people to raise families on or support yourself your entire life. they are there to teach you how to work and then move on to better things |
Bullshit, DOUSCHE-HERE, their are plenty of people who can't get a better job. If that shit you were spewing were true only high school kids would have minimum wage jobs, and their would not be any unemployed people. |
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| dtown |
| I'm not conservative or liberal and I don't agree w/ the pay raise they have given themselves, I think it's sick. But if you raise minimum wage you raise the cost of everything and it leads to companies outsourcing to a country w/ no minimum wage. Minimum wage looks good on paper but it causes problems in the real world. |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by dtown
But if you raise minimum wage you raise the cost of everything and it leads to companies outsourcing to a country w/ no minimum wage. Minimum wage looks good on paper but it causes problems in the real world. |
So we should work for what Mexicans/Chinese will work for or else our jobs will go there?
Please, the types of jobs we're discussing here are service sector jobs, they're going to move a walmart or burger king to Shanghai?
Then what, you going to travel 6000miles for a Whopper?
We as a society cannot and should not try to keep our wage scales in line with what the third world will pay,
If big business wants to off shore to these places we have a right and a duty to penalize them through higher taxes/tariffs on foreign goods.
Free trade only works if the playing field is level(ie Canada-USA,
EU), not between the USA and Sri Lanka |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by dtown
I'm not conservative or liberal and I don't agree w/ the pay raise they have given themselves, I think it's sick. But if you raise minimum wage you raise the cost of everything and it leads to companies outsourcing to a country w/ no minimum wage. Minimum wage looks good on paper but it causes problems in the real world. |
The only types of minimum wage jobs that could possibly get outsourced are assembly jobs, or call center jobs. The vast majority are service related jobs. We cannot compete with countries willing to chain someone to a table and make them work for pennies a day. That is a race to the bottom. Throughout history there have been places where amazingly cheap labor could be found. America beat that by making it a GOOD THING to start a business in america and use american workers. People were happy. Corporations were happy. It was a win-win. Instead of making it easier for companies to move operations elsewhere and pay ten times the number of employees a tenth of the total pay, we should be making it worthwhile for companies to stay in America and invest in American workers who will be happy to pay more for products because they will be making more money.
Henry Ford was one of the first to realize his best customers were his workers. |
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| Crazytree |
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
So we should work for what Mexicans/Chinese will work for or else our jobs will go there? |
you're a sharp one! let's see if you're smart enough to make the distinction between skilled labor and unskilled labor.
someone should not be paid $30/hr. to hammer nails into wood. you're basically paying a $20/hr. union premium that creates a huge inefficiency in the market.
OTOH... someone who is a skilled electrician SHOULD get paid $30/hr because it requires experience and at least some technical education.
as for libertarians... I had an idiot law professor that was pro-slumlord and pro-child labor. he also made a really stupid point about how the only park that was safe at night was Disneyland... and that was because of privatized security. he got very upset when I said maybe a family of four doesn't want to have to pay $200 everytime they go to the park. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark
One lame excuse and talking point to defend this is, well why not raise it to 100 dollars and eliminate poverty? Why not pick any arbitrary figure?
They neglect to finish the thought process and realize they have already picked an arbitrary figure of 5.15.
Several states and localities have already raised the minimum wage of their own. News flash; the sky has not fallen. |
It's not a lame excuse at all if your position is that the minimum wage does more harm than good, has no place in a free capitalistic system and should be eliminated. Those who say to make it $20 or whatever, didn't pick 5.15, most would eliminate it altogether.
In that context, please answer the question, why not make it $15 per hour, or $20 ??
Quote: Originally posted by AssBoil
Attempting to give the proverbial "little guy" a level playing field has always been perceived by the "big guy" as a threat to their bottom line, which is all they are worried about. For years Republicans have been crowing that raising the minimum wage would ruin the economy, just like environmental controls will ruin the economy and unions and everything else that helps protect the bottom 90% of our society. But why do they continue to give themselves raises that individually amount to 3 times what a person making the current min. wage makes in a year? |
The minimum wage does not provide a level playing field by in any sense. Whether at $8-10-or $20 per hour. The level playing field is the opportunity that we all are afforded by living in this country. Conservatives rightly claim that the minimum wage hurts workers and hurts business, especially small business. I don't believe any have said that it would 'ruin the economy' It's just another unnecessary obstacle for business and workers to overcome. One of the reasons that democrats are so tied to minimum wage hikes is that their friends at the unions have contracts which are tied to the minimum wage. A hike in the minimum wage means a hike in the pay rates in the union contract.
I totally agree on the pay raise issue. I think the auto-raise came into effect within the past 10 years, so Republicans are mostly to blame. It's just 1 more reason we need term limits. |
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| Reverend Tyler |
| Speaking of raises....Sen Russ Feingold (D - WI)refuses to accept them on principle unless he is re-elected. He said that his stance has caused him to write over $66,000 to the treasury, paying the money back. |
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| ihatecabbie |
Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree
as for libertarians... I had an idiot law professor that was pro-slumlord and pro-child labor. he also made a really stupid point about how the only park that was safe at night was Disneyland... and that was because of privatized security. he got very upset when I said maybe a family of four doesn't want to have to pay $200 everytime they go to the park. |
:jj: |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
It's not a lame excuse at all if your position is that the minimum wage does more harm than good, has no place in a free capitalistic system and should be eliminated. Those who say to make it $20 or whatever, didn't pick 5.15, most would eliminate it altogether.
In that context, please answer the question, why not make it $15 per hour, or $20 ?? |
My point is 5.15 is an arbitrary figure that was plucked out of a fucking hat. That's how much faith I have in the Government to actually study the effects of the minimum wage.
In truth, the figure is more than arbitrary. The Government demands it be minimum wage paid and in a true "free market" (Damn, I hate that phrase) that wouldn't even be necessary.
Our "free market" is currently flooded with illegals who will work for less than the minimum wage and plenty of workers who used to make 12 to 20 dollars an hour in manufacturing who are now working for minimum because their job went overseas to a communist nation.
So much for that "free market." |
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| Crazytree |
| it's not an arbitrary figure... it was a number that both sides could agree to. :D |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
It's not a lame excuse at all if your position is that the minimum wage does more harm than good, has no place in a free capitalistic system and should be eliminated. Those who say to make it $20 or whatever, didn't pick 5.15, most would eliminate it altogether.
In that context, please answer the question, why not make it $15 per hour, or $20 ??
The minimum wage does not provide a level playing field by in any sense. Whether at $8-10-or $20 per hour. The level playing field is the opportunity that we all are afforded by living in this country. Conservatives rightly claim that the minimum wage hurts workers and hurts business, especially small business. I don't believe any have said that it would 'ruin the economy' It's just another unnecessary obstacle for business and workers to overcome. One of the reasons that democrats are so tied to minimum wage hikes is that their friends at the unions have contracts which are tied to the minimum wage. A hike in the minimum wage means a hike in the pay rates in the union contract.
I totally agree on the pay raise issue. I think the auto-raise came into effect within the past 10 years, so Republicans are mostly to blame. It's just 1 more reason we need term limits. [/B] |
How is expecting the minimum wage in the wealthiest nation on the planet to pay more than the poverty level an "unnecessary obstacle" for workers? Unions are the weakest they have been in decades because of people like you. They are losing every battle because corporations are given incentives to take their operations outside the US... |
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| skl |
| What would the effect be? To accomodate the raise, the employers would have to raise prices. As has become apparent with gas prices, the elitists who control most business will profit ven more on the backs of lower and middle class. Small business can't afford higher wages and thus fail. Who's left? This government does not how handle its's own pocketbook. The working class needs to take back what government has pillaged. :( :( |
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| DDluvr |
| Boggles the mind that these representatives of corporate america can fuck their own constituants so blatently and still get their asses elected by the fuckees! :( |
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| Crazytree |
Quote: Originally posted by skl
What would the effect be? To accomodate the raise, the employers would have to raise prices. As has become apparent with gas prices, the elitists who control most business will profit ven more on the backs of lower and middle class. Small business can't afford higher wages and thus fail. Who's left? This government does not how handle its's own pocketbook. The working class needs to take back what government has pillaged. :( :( |
In Walmart's case... they'll only be able to make $2.7 Billion next year instead of $2.8 Billion. |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree
In Walmart's case... they'll only be able to make $2.7 Billion next year instead of $2.8 Billion. |
The Horror... |
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| bushleaguer |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Conservatives rightly claim that the minimum wage hurts workers and hurts business, especially small business. I don't believe any have said that it would 'ruin the economy' It's just another unnecessary obstacle for business and workers to overcome. |
With all due respect, do you do any independent research about topics like this or do you accept everything the Republican party says as fact?
Research done in 2004 showed that states that had elevated their own minimum wages saw an increase in jobs and a boost in local economies. In other words, higher wages attracted workers and businesses thrived....not closed down. Also, with more disposable income, these low wage earners pumped money back into the local economy and thus businesses saw in increase in revenue. Overall, these states saw raising the minimum wage as a benefit to local business and "mom and pop" stores did not suffer as a result. Look it up.
As far as the minimum wage goes, the government should raise it so that people aren't living in poverty. It has been established that over 7 million Americans would benefit from an increase of the minimum wage (thus refuting the assertion that a minumum wage is unnecessary because the economy will self-adjust and pay people enough to live on). I'm not looking to create a socialist society, but I don't think a person should have to take 2 full time jobs just to keep the lights on and be able to afford bare bones health care. |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by bushleaguer
I don't think a person should have to take 2 full time jobs just to keep the lights on and be able to afford bare bones health care. |
Apparently, the Republicans think that's an excellent idea. |
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| GoldenNugget |
| Everyone should be paid the same amount, that way no one has to worry about not having health care or toys for the kids. |
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| Monster_Zero |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
That's right. Libertarians are supposed to be against any form of government regulation outside of the bare minimum of taxes to keep a shrunken government running... Private corporations, who obviously have all our best interests in mind, and not simply making money for themselves, would provide most of the "services" our government currently does...
Libertarianism = Utopianism |
Let me preface this by stating that I have not read the whole thread... I got this far, and felt that this needed immediate addressing from the party in issue... :mad:
Libertarians are about liberty on the Federal level... our liberties are clearly stated in the Constitution. Period!
Should there be a minimum wage? Probably, but it should be assessed on a State level... not a national one.
While States still have the power to impose their own laws, we (citizens) enjoy the right to move to whichever state we wish.
We all make our choices... I wish I didn't haffta live in NY. But until my parents die, I will... :(
As Oz well knows, I was considering a move to New Hampshire. I still might if I can figure out these Internets... |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
How is expecting the minimum wage in the wealthiest nation on the planet to pay more than the poverty level an "unnecessary obstacle" for workers? Unions are the weakest they have been in decades because of people like you. They are losing every battle because corporations are given incentives to take their operations outside the US... |
Read these two articles about the minimum wage and 'living' wage, maybe it will help you understand.
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/col.../15/175548.html
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/col.../05/170348.html
When discussing outsourcing, which is not a problem in this country, in fact, it helps American companies stay strong and competitive, be sure and discuss insourcing..i.e. all the foreign companies who have moved operations here. BMW, Toyota, Honda, just to name a few.
Unions have caused their own problems. Greed, mismanagement, corruption wasn't my fault. They are also weak because they are no longer needed anywhere near the extent they were in the past. Check out this article concerning recent union spending disclosure (mandated by the Bush Admin by the way to PROTECT the union membership) http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...ESS01/606230425
Here's the highlights:
Quote: Here is how the UAW said it spent a portion of its $307-million budget in 2005:
• $5,150 to produce a retirement video honoring Detroit-area official Ken Terry.
• $21,883 for "director's club jackets" for Region 5, representing western and southwestern states.
• $684,360 for air travel, including $167,616 for "flights to Black Lake/retiree conference."
• $5,386 for luggage tags.
• $30,544 to cancel a leadership meeting at Hyatt Regency Dearborn. UAW said it received a credit from the hotel and used it later.
• $12,523 for bowling towels.
• $318,498 for conference briefcases, portfolios and pens.
• $66,032 for leadership conference at Palm Springs Riviera Resort in Palm Springs, Calif.
• $66,639 for meeting, conference and other non-itemized expenses at Soaring Eagle Casino & Resort in Mt. Pleasant.
$66,519 for UAW/DaimlerChrysler meeting at Bally's Las Vegas.
• $10,577 at Thunderbowl Lanes in Allen Park.
• $5,250 at Jaqua's Fine Guns Inc. in Findlay, Ohio, for a shooting tournament.
• $63,473 at Thousands Hills Golf Resort and Conference Center in Branson, Mo., for a staff meeting, golf fees and other expenses for the Missouri-based region.
• $5,881 for Toledo Mud Hens baseball.
Source: 2005 annual report filed by the UAW with the U.S. Department of Labor |
I bet this would have been interesting reading in years past, had this requirement been implemented in any prior administration. Unions have helped destroy unions bud...no one else has. |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero
Let me preface this by stating that I have not read the whole thread... I got this far, and felt that this needed immediate addressing from the party in issue... :mad:
Libertarians are about liberty on the Federal level... our liberties are clearly stated in the Constitution. Period!
Should there be a minimum wage? Probably, but it should be assessed on a State level... not a national one.
While States still have the power to impose their own laws, we (citizens) enjoy the right to move to whichever state we wish.
We all make our choices... I wish I didn't haffta live in NY. But until my parents die, I will... :(
As Oz well knows, I was considering a move to New Hampshire. I still might if I can figure out these Internets... |
Not true. Think about most of the people in this country living in poverty, working for min. wage. Almost none would be able to just up and move because they are sick of making $5.15 an hour. That doesn't buy alot of moving supplies, or provide for a deposit on a new place, or any of the other things you would need to move to another state...
I mean I was amazed at how much money it costs to move from Colorado to Pennsylvania, and I did most of the work myself.
If someone was unlucky enough to be born into a poor family in a state where the min. wage was inadequate, they would be fucked. That is why having a federal minimum makes sense. If the states want to pay MORE than the fed. min., by all means, that is fantastic... |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Read these two articles about the minimum wage and 'living' wage, maybe it will help you understand.
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/col.../15/175548.html
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/col.../05/170348.html
When discussing outsourcing, which is not a problem in this country, in fact, it helps American companies stay strong and competitive, be sure and discuss insourcing..i.e. all the foreign companies who have moved operations here. BMW, Toyota, Honda, just to name a few.
Unions have caused their own problems. Greed, mismanagement, corruption wasn't my fault. They are also weak because they are no longer needed anywhere near the extent they were in the past. Check out this article concerning recent union spending disclosure (mandated by the Bush Admin by the way to PROTECT the union membership) http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...ESS01/606230425
Here's the highlights:
I bet this would have been interesting reading in years past, had this requirement been implemented in any prior administration. Unions have helped destroy unions bud...no one else has. |
Right. Reagan had nothing to do with breaking unions, did he? I know some air traffic controllers who might disagree with you... And I'm sure it was just coincidence THAT is precisely when the number of illegals coming to this country increased significantly.
As for the rest of your post, saying outsourcing is good and unions aren't needed only shows how little understanding you have of the issue... |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Right. Reagan had nothing to do with breaking unions, did he? I know some air traffic controllers who might disagree with you... And I'm sure it was just coincidence THAT is precisely when the number of illegals coming to this country increased significantly.
As for the rest of your post, saying outsourcing is good and unions aren't needed only shows how little understanding you have of the issue... |
Had they followed the law...the Air Traffic Controllers would not have been fired.. More moral relevance from you?? It's ok to break the law if you are in a union, I guess.
I'll post more on outsourcing later...no comment on the insourcing though?? I guess you agree then?
Also guessing you didn't read the links...THe worst kind of ignorance is willful ignorance... |
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| Ass Boil |
Outsourcing still lost 3.4 million MORE jobs than "in"sourcing created.... Only you would see that as a positive.
And Republicans are using "in"sourcing as a way to hire foreigners with work visas for less pay than American workers...
The point still stands. |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree
you're a sharp one! let's see if you're smart enough to make the distinction between skilled labor and unskilled labor.
someone should not be paid $30/hr. to hammer nails into wood. you're basically paying a $20/hr. union premium that creates a huge inefficiency in the market. |
Don't know of too many framers making $30/ hour here, $20
sure.
And I think they do deserve it, Framing houses or other hammering nails into wood jobs as you put it, requires skill, don't think it does? Go try it for awhile.
I do however get your point, I'm not saying someone who drops out of school, or never applies themselves shoud be living the high life, I do believe they should be able to pay their rent , feed themselves, and put clothes on their backs, which is not possible at $5/hr.
If their wage doesn't allow them to do these things who do you think ends up paying for it?
You and I through taxes.
Call me crazy, but I'd rather Wal-Mart pay than me, and if they as a result choose to hike prices then so be it, I don't have to shop there(and I don't) |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree
you're a sharp one!
. union premium that creates a huge inefficiency in the market. |
Inefficiences in the marketplace?
come on now.
So Wal-Mart making billions in profit every year and paying their
"associates" :rolleyes: so little they have to acces gov't welfare services is the market being efficient?
Are unions the greatest thing ever? not to me, I'm a member of one and do have huge problems with the way they operate.
But to think that the "Market" will take of itself is just incorrect.
This is the thinking that allowed Enron, Worldcom ect to happen.
Notice I kept the "Sharp" comment in there.
I agree :D |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
Inefficiences in the marketplace?
come on now.
So Wal-Mart making billions in profit every year and paying their
"associates" :rolleyes: so little they have to acces gov't welfare services is the market being efficient?
Are unions the greatest thing ever? not to me, I'm a member of one and do have huge problems with the way they operate.
But to think that the "Market" will take of itself is just incorrect.
This is the thinking that allowed Enron, Worldcom ect to happen.
Notice I kept the "Sharp" comment in there.
I agree :D |
Unions were degraded when the workplace expanded to include the *world* and no protections for the American workplace were put in place. Support of foreign interests and "free trade" with it's huge imbalance and corrupt, treasonous supporters is the problem. |
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| Ass Boil |
When our government is trying to force American workers to compete with countries who allow people to work for $10-$20 a month, there is something horribly wrong. It is an impossible situation for us...
You notice our politicians seem to give themselves plenty of raises... why would that be? We should let the "free market" decide what their job is worth...? |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
When our government is trying to force American workers to compete with countries who allow people to work for $10-$20 a month, there is something horribly wrong. It is an impossible situation for us...
You notice our politicians seem to give themselves plenty of raises... why would that be? We should let the "free market" decide what their job is worth...? |
Exactly,
also, how many ceos, and bigwigs with major corps that are losing billions, closing factories/facilities, laying off 1000's still give
themselves hefty salaries,raises,buyouts,stock options, perks?
Let the market decide?
If the market wasn't run by crooks, and greed that would be okay. |
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| Ass Boil |
| That's it. The "free" market is exactly the opposite... |
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| Ass Boil |
Let's just dispense of some of the typical righty talking points on minimum wage:
#1. Raising the minimum wage would HURT small businesses (as if Republicans care about small businesses):
Quote:
Recently, the Fiscal Policy Institute (FPI) released a study of the impact of higher minimum wages on small businesses4. Their analysis focuses on various outcomes for businesses with less than 50 employees, comparing these outcomes between states with minimum wages above the Federal level and those at the Federal level. If the theory that higher minimum wages hurt small businesses is correct, then we would expect there to be less growth in such enterprises in states with higher minimum wages. In fact, as shown in Figure 5, the opposite is the case.
• Between 1998 and 2001, the number of small business establishments grew twice as quickly in states with higher minimum wages (3.1% vs. 1.6%).
• Employment grew 1.5% more quickly in high minimum wage states.
• Annual and average payroll growth was also faster in higher minimum wage states.
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webf...nimum_wage_2004
FPI presents similar results for small businesses in the retail sector.
In related research, Waltman, et al. (1998) examine the relationship between business failures and minimum wage increases5. Here again, claims by business-community opponents of the minimum wage suggest that business failures should increase along with minimum wage increases. But in examining this relationship over more than 30 years, Waltman et al conclude that:
“…there seems to be no discernible correlation between minimum wage increases and a rise in business failures, either in the year the increase occurred or in the following year. If anything, the evidence leans the other way” (page 221). |
#2. Raising the minimum wage will CAUSE job losses (as if Republicans were ever worried about job losses):
Quote:
Does the minimum wage cause job loss?
A 1998 EPI study failed to find any systematic, significant job loss associated with the 1996-97 minimum wage increase. In fact, following the most recent increase in the minimum wage in 1996-97, the low-wage labor market performed better than it had in decades (e.g., lower unemployment rates, increased average hourly wages, increased family income, decreased poverty rates). Studies of the 1990-91 federal minimum wage increase, as well as to studies by David Card and Alan Krueger of several state minimum wage increases, also found no measurable negative impact on employment. Finally, a recent Fiscal Policy Institute (FPI) study of state minimum wages found no evidence of negative employment effects on small businesses.
New economic models that look specifically at low-wage labor markets help explain why there is little evidence of job loss associated with minimum wage increases. These models recognize that employers may be able to absorb some of the costs of a wage increase through higher productivity, lower recruiting and training costs, decreased absenteeism, and increased worker morale.
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issu...wage_minwagefaq |
#3. The only people working for minimum wage are high school kids in their first jobs:
Quote:
Who are minimum wage workers?
An estimated 7.3 million workers (5.8% of the workforce) would benefit from an increase in the minimum wage to $7.25 by June 2007. Of these workers, 72.1% are adults and 60.6% are women. Close to half (43.9%) work full time and another third (34.5%) work between 20 and 34 hours per week. More than one-third (35%) of the workers who would benefit from an increase to $7.25 are parents of children under age 18, including 760,000 single mothers. The average minimum wage worker brings home about half of his or her family's weekly earnings.
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issu...wage_minwagefaq |
#4. Raising the minimum wage would not reduce poverty (as if Republicans have ever cared about "reducing" poverty):
Quote:
Will a minimum wage increase reduce poverty?
In the past, the minimum wage has been limited in its effects on poverty because many poor families did not have any family members in the paid labor force. However, as welfare reform forces more poor families to rely on their earnings from low-paying jobs, a minimum wage increase is likely to have a greater impact on reducing poverty.
The minimum wage has already proven helpful to former welfare recipients who are entering the workforce. A study of a 1999 state minimum wage increase in Oregon found that as many as one-half of the welfare recipients entering the workforce in 1998 were likely to have received a raise due to the increase. After the increase, the real hourly starting wages for former welfare recipients rose to $7.23.
Another study found that federal minimum wage increases in the 1990s have reduced poverty rates (Addison and Blackburn 1999). Yet another study found that a minimum wage increase from $5.15 to $6.15 would lift nearly 900,000 people out of poverty (Sawhill and Thomas, 2001).
In addition, the minimum wage raises the wages of low-income workers in general, not just those below the official poverty line. Many families move in and out of poverty, and near-poor families are also important beneficiaries of minimum wage increases.
However, it is also important to keep in mind that while the minimum wage is a crucial tool in the effort to end poverty, it is only one part of a larger anti-poverty strategy.
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issu...wage_minwagefaq |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Outsourcing still lost 3.4 million MORE jobs than "in"sourcing created.... Only you would see that as a positive.
And Republicans are using "in"sourcing as a way to hire foreigners with work visas for less pay than American workers...
The point still stands. |
What point?? And excuse me for not taking your word for it, but you are not exactly well versed on the issue. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Let's just dispense of some of the typical righty talking points on minimum wage:
#1. Raising the minimum wage would HURT small businesses (as if Republicans care about small businesses):
#2. Raising the minimum wage will CAUSE job losses (as if Republicans were ever worried about job losses):
#3. The only people working for minimum wage are high school kids in their first jobs:
#4. Raising the minimum wage would not reduce poverty (as if Republicans have ever cared about "reducing" poverty): |
From Wikopedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Policy_Institute
Quote: The Economic Policy Institute or EPI is a Liberal United States think tank based in Washington, D.C. and concerned with, as its name implies, the formulation of economic policy . It was established in 1986 by a group of economists including Jeff Faux [1], Barry Bluestone [2], Robert Kuttner [3], Ray Marshall, Robert Reich, and Lester Thurow. Its current president is Lawrence Mishel [4].
EPI states it was founded "to broaden the discussion about economic policy to include the interests of low- and middle-income workers," It states as its mission, "to provide high-quality research and education in order to promote a prosperous, fair, and sustainable economy." [5] The organization conducts research, makes policy recommendations, and disseminates its work through various channels, including a printed journal, monthly email newsletter and RSS feed.[6]
EPI is organized as an IRS Code Section 501(c)(3) non-profit organization and has a staff of about fifty, of whom about ten are Ph.D. researchers. Its board of directors consist largely of labor union officials. [7] |
Nuff said... |
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| adrian style |
| I can't believe this is even an argument 5.15 an hour is ridiculous. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by adrian style
I can't believe this is even an argument 5.15 an hour is ridiculous. |
What do you think it should be? And why should the government be able to dictate what a business pays its employees?
Please respond in detail.
Why not just make the minimum $20 per hour??? Can anyone please respond (seriously) to that point? |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
What do you think it should be? And why should the government be able to dictate what a business pays its employees?
Please respond in detail.
Why not just make the minimum $20 per hour??? Can anyone please respond (seriously) to that point? |
First off dickhead, the gov't has every right to set basic health, safety, accounting practices, and WAGES that companies have to pay.
This is a Democracy for the people and by the people, therefore the "PEOPLE" can make big and small businesses do whatever they want.
The Constitution of your great land was not written for the benefit of Wal-Mart and Delphi.
Secondly DICKHEAD, no one(except those as dillusional as you)
is saying the minimum wage should be $20/hour, what we are saying is is that in a nation as wealthy as America, or in my case Canada if you go to work full time, you should be able to pay your rent, feed yourself, and put clothes on your back, the current minimum wage in both countries makes that impossible.
serious enough for you? |
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| Billyfromsphily |
| As long as big business is in place they are subject to the laws of the land. Too Bad the Administration has become a tool of big business. But that will change as it always does. |
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| Ass Boil |
LOL. So now we are back to ONLY questioning sources, eh? How come that criticism doesn't fly when someone questions one of the many right wing sites you quote in every post?
You notice when your golden boy Fred Seitz was trashed, we provided plenty of evidence of his fraudulent behavior.
So unless you can provide us with some proof their numbers are wrong, you are once again avoiding the issue...
You are hilarious. |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
What do you think it should be? And why should the government be able to dictate what a business pays its employees?
Please respond in detail.
Why not just make the minimum $20 per hour??? Can anyone please respond (seriously) to that point? |
Mmmmm, isn't Government *already* doing that Mike?
Ya know, what with whatever the minimum wage and prevailing wage happens to be. They dictate it NOW.
It should at least be kept in line with inflation. 5.15 an hour is a disgrace. |
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| bushleaguer |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
What do you think it should be? And why should the government be able to dictate what a business pays its employees?
Please respond in detail.
Why not just make the minimum $20 per hour??? Can anyone please respond (seriously) to that point? |
In a nutshell (and as already mentioned) - because there are currently over 7 million Americans working for the federal minimum wage...that is, what is reported. There is now a big difference between the minimum wage and a living wage. Because it is on record that 7 million people earn $5.15/hour, it is also on record that there needs to be government mandates in terms of a proper hourly wage.
I understand the Republican concept of limited government interference. But it is this same philosophy that keeps Republicans from touching the minimum wage and from stepping into the fray when gas prices have shot up in the past 2 years while the oil companies make record profits. Of course the Republicans will shrug it off as capitalism, but it is also a nod to the concept - "bite the pillow and take your screwing."
Of course the minimum wage shouldn't be $20/hour, however it shouldn't be stagnating at 5.15 either. Lawmakers know about cost of living increases - they've gotten theirs without objection for the past few years. Do people really believe that the House and Senate deserves a raise this year? That is probably the biggest joke of it all. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
First off dickhead, the gov't has every right to set basic health, safety, accounting practices, and WAGES that companies have to pay.
This is a Democracy for the people and by the people, therefore the "PEOPLE" can make big and small businesses do whatever they want.
The Constitution of your great land was not written for the benefit of Wal-Mart and Delphi.
Secondly DICKHEAD, no one(except those as dillusional as you)
is saying the minimum wage should be $20/hour, what we are saying is is that in a nation as wealthy as America, or in my case Canada if you go to work full time, you should be able to pay your rent, feed yourself, and put clothes on your back, the current minimum wage in both countries makes that impossible.
serious enough for you? |
WOW...such imaginitive name calling....is it time for recess yet?
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
First off dickhead, the gov't has every right to set basic health, safety, accounting practices, and WAGES that companies have to pay.
This is a Democracy for the people and by the people, therefore the "PEOPLE" can make big and small businesses do whatever they want.
The Constitution of your great land was not written for the benefit of Wal-Mart and Delphi. |
Where to start with the contradictions....
In one sentence you wrap yourself in the constitution, ie The Constitution of your great land was not written for the benefit of Wal-Mart and Delphi, while just prior you make this statement, This is a Democracy for the people and by the people, therefore the "PEOPLE" can make big and small businesses do whatever they want . Is it possible to contradict yourself more?? Who runs small businesses, genius?? Individuals do ! Those same individuals are protected under the constitution also. So 'the people' cannot make big and small businesses do whatever they want. They cannot take constitutional protections away from individuals, JUST because they happen to run a business.
Now, where exactly in the constitution does it say that the federal government has the right to set wages that employers have to pay?
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
Secondly DICKHEAD, no one(except those as dillusional as you)
is saying the minimum wage should be $20/hour, what we are saying is is that in a nation as wealthy as America, or in my case Canada if you go to work full time, you should be able to pay your rent, feed yourself, and put clothes on your back, the current minimum wage in both countries makes that impossible |
What the question was ( I must repeat it since you obviously couldn't grasp it the first time) that if the mimimum wage is a good idea, why not have it at $20. Then everyone would be middle class, right?
I agree that if you go to work full time, you should be able to pay your rent, feed yourself, and put clothes on your back but those are the responsibilities of the individual, not the responsibility of government, or government mandate. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
LOL. So now we are back to ONLY questioning sources, eh? How come that criticism doesn't fly when someone questions one of the many right wing sites you quote in every post?
You notice when your golden boy Fred Seitz was trashed, we provided plenty of evidence of his fraudulent behavior.
So unless you can provide us with some proof their numbers are wrong, you are once again avoiding the issue...
You are hilarious. |
Lets see, a organization run by big labor, who has a vested interest in seeing that the minimum wage be raised, (so their union deals which have automatic raises built in, should the minimum wage be hiked) comes out with a study claiming all the wonders of the minimum wage. I believe that is the definition of conflict of interest.
You provided left wing attack points concerning one of the greates scientists of the 20th century, which did nothing to diminish what he said.
Once again, you post nonsense and say 'prove it wrong' I am still waiting for your apology for posting the Jason Leopold lies, and pretty much claiming...prove it wrong....
Not that it matters because I am sure you won't read anything in this link because it goes against your socialist worldview, but :
http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/reg18n1c.html
It's pretty detailed including analysis and statistical tables for those of you who choose not to be ignorant. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark
Mmmmm, isn't Government *already* doing that Mike?
Ya know, what with whatever the minimum wage and prevailing wage happens to be. They dictate it NOW.
It should at least be kept in line with inflation. 5.15 an hour is a disgrace. |
Still wondering why not make it $20???? Can you answer that? |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by bushleaguer
In a nutshell (and as already mentioned) - because there are currently over 7 million Americans working for the federal minimum wage...that is, what is reported. There is now a big difference between the minimum wage and a living wage. Because it is on record that 7 million people earn $5.15/hour, it is also on record that there needs to be government mandates in terms of a proper hourly wage.
I understand the Republican concept of limited government interference. But it is this same philosophy that keeps Republicans from touching the minimum wage and from stepping into the fray when gas prices have shot up in the past 2 years while the oil companies make record profits. Of course the Republicans will shrug it off as capitalism, but it is also a nod to the concept - "bite the pillow and take your screwing."
Of course the minimum wage shouldn't be $20/hour, however it shouldn't be stagnating at 5.15 either. Lawmakers know about cost of living increases - they've gotten theirs without objection for the past few years. Do people really believe that the House and Senate deserves a raise this year? That is probably the biggest joke of it all. |
Your numbers are not correct.
Here are the 2005 Dept of labor stats on the minimum wage:
From: http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2005.htm
Quote: According to Current Population Survey estimates for 2005, 75.6 million American workers were paid at hourly rates, representing 60.1 percent of all wage and salary workers.1 Of those paid by the hour, 479,000 were reported as earning exactly $5.15, the prevailing Federal minimum wage. Another 1.4 million were reported as earning wages below the minimum.2 Together, these 1.9 million workers with wages at or below the minimum made up 2.5 percent of all hourly-paid workers . Tables 1 - 10 present data on a wide array of demographic and socioeconomic characteristics for hourly-paid workers earning at or below the Federal minimum wage. The following are some highlights from the 2005 data.
Minimum wage workers tend to be young. About half of workers earning $5.15 or less were under age 25 , and about one-fourth of workers earning at or below the minimum wage were age 16-19. Among employed teenagers, about 9 percent earned $5.15 or less. About 2 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less. Among those age 65 and over, the proportion was about 3 percent. (See table 1 and table 7.)
About 3 percent of women paid hourly rates reported wages at or below the prevailing Federal minimum, compared with under 2 percent of men. (See table 1.)
Less than 3 percent of white hourly-paid workers earned $5.15 or less. Among black, Asian, and Hispanic hourly-paid workers, about 2 percent earned the Federal minimum wage or less. For whites and Hispanics, women were twice as likely as men to earn $5.15 or less. (See table 1.)
Never-married workers, who tend to be young, were more likely to earn the minimum wage or less than married workers. (See table 8.)
Among hourly-paid workers age 16 and over, 2 percent of those who had a high school diploma but had not gone on to college earned the minimum wage or less. (See table 6.)
Part-time workers (persons who usually work less than 35 hours per week) were more likely than their full-time counterparts to be paid $5.15 or less (about 6 percent versus 1 percent |
)
Please explain your rational for NOT making the minimum $20 per hour?? You simply said it shouldn't be.
The Congressional increases are automatic, and must be voted on to be stopped. That is just one more reason for term limits to stop nonsense like that. |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
WOW...such imaginitive name calling....is it time for recess yet. |
WOW....you special ed guys got recess?
Say what you want, the federal gov't has every right to set a basic minimum wage, and that wage should provide for a basic life, right now it doesn't, so who then pays for it? You do(assuming you work) and I do through taxes for social welfare
services.
You can continue to say your questions aren't being answered, but everyone else here realizes thats nonsense. |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Lets see, a organization run by big labor, who has a vested interest in seeing that the minimum wage be raised, (so their union deals which have automatic raises built in, should the minimum wage be hiked) comes out with a study claiming all the wonders of the minimum wage. I believe that is the definition of conflict of interest.
You provided left wing attack points concerning one of the greates scientists of the 20th century, which did nothing to diminish what he said.
Once again, you post nonsense and say 'prove it wrong' I am still waiting for your apology for posting the Jason Leopold lies, and pretty much claiming...prove it wrong....
Not that it matters because I am sure you won't read anything in this link because it goes against your socialist worldview, but :
http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/reg18n1c.html
It's pretty detailed including analysis and statistical tables for those of you who choose not to be ignorant. |
LOL. Those were not "left wing attack points" regarding Seitz. He committed a fraud and got caught doing it. Why would the NAS immediately disavow Seitz and his "petition" if they agreed with him? No one forced him to accept all that money from big tobacco and big oil, and make his "science" fit whatever his bosses wanted. Once again I am sorry that has to be explained to you...
Oh, and you have got BIG balls attempting to criticize the EPI, then replying with something from the Cato Institute. And you wonder why you get accused of being dishonest:
Quote:
The Cato Institute: "Libertarian"In A Corporate Way
By Norman Solomon
January 1, 1998
EXTRA!
Email to a Friend
Print Friendly Version
In the autumn of 1997, when Rupert Murdoch joined the board of directors at the Cato Institute, the announcement went unreported in major news outlets. Perhaps it seemed routine for one of the world's most powerful media moguls to take a leadership post at one of the most influential think tanks in Washington.
Murdoch can count on rubbing elbows with a fellow media titan. John C. Malone -- president and CEO of Tele-Communications Inc. (TCI), the largest cable operator in the United States -- has been on the Cato board since 1995. The two men are already well acquainted, since Murdoch's News Corp. has long been intertwined with TCI in media deals involving satellite television, cable TV, program distribution and other big telecommunications ventures.
Now the heads of both firms are formally helping to run a think tank which brags that it has "actively promoted the deregulation of the television and telephone industries." The boast is not idle. In recent years, the Cato Institute has become one of the most cited and quoted think tanks in U.S. news media. (The Brookings Institution and the Heritage Foundation rank first and second, according to the Nexis data base; Cato follows closely behind third-place American Enterprise Institute.) On Capitol Hill, the Cato Institute is now a key resource for Republican leaders.
Announcing Murdoch's arrival on its board, Cato praised him as "a strong advocate of the free market" and quoted his stirring words: "I start from a simple principle. In every area of economic activity in which competition is attainable, it is much to be preferred to monopoly." Meanwhile, in Murdoch's native Australia, his News Corp. dominates the mass media; in Britain he controls more than a third of daily newspaper circulation along with much of cable and satellite television.
While they're fond of lauding the "free market," Murdoch and other U.S. broadcasters are heavily reliant on government aid. Holding frequency licenses worth fortunes, they're now receiving free slices of a digital spectrum valued at up to $70 billion. Likewise, cable TV conglomerates -- with Malone's TCI in the lead -- continue to expand under the protection of federal regulations that place severe limits on the power of municipalities to charge franchise fees for use of public rights-of-way. The contradiction doesn't seem to bother the Cato Institute at all.
Among the luminaries at Cato is Jose Pinera, co-chair of its Project on Social Security Privatization. Cato's latest annual report says that Pinera, a former minister of labor and welfare in Chile, "oversaw the privatization of Chile's pension system in the early 1980s" -- but does not mention that at the time the Chilean government was under the dictatorship of Gen. Augusto Pinochet. Evidently, Cato's concern about intrusive government does not extend to torture and murder.
In terms of commitment to human rights, Cato has found a kindred spirit in Rupert Murdoch, who is fond of floating lofty rhetoric about his Star TV satellite network. "Satellite broadcasting makes it possible for information-hungry residents of many closed societies to bypass state-controlled television," said Murdoch, who touts new media technology as a "threat to totalitarian regimes everywhere." But Murdoch quickly kowtowed to |
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