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Bush Administration has been secretly tracking bank records
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| Bush Administration has been secretly tracking bank records
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| Turd_Cutter |
What do you guys make of this? Is it a good thing or another violation of privacy? Guess it depends who they're spying on. Of course, this too never received congressional approval.
"The Bush administration has been secretly tapping into a global network of confidential financial transactions and compiling a vast database of bank records. According to an article in the June 23 New York Times, the program was initiated shortly after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and has examined banking transactions involving tens of thousands of individuals in the US and internationally.
Through the Terrorist Finance Tracking Program, ordered by Bush 10 days after 9/11, the US Treasury Department has been collecting data from the world’s largest financial communications network—the Belgium-based Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication, or SWIFT. The Bush administration has authorized the program through administrative subpoenas under a little-known authority of the 1977 International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA).
Administration officials asked the Times not publish its story. When the Times went ahead with it, the White House denounced the newspaper, implying that by informing the American and international public of the massive and warrentless intrusion of privacy it was aiding and abetting the terrorists. “We are disappointed that once again the New York Times has chosen to expose a classified program that is working to protect Americans,” Bush administration spokeswoman Dana Perino said. “We know that Al Qaeda watches for any clue as to how we are fighting the war on terrorism and then they adapt.”
Exposure of the government spying on bank records follows revelations of far-reaching secret spying operations on Americans by the National Security Agency (NSA) involving eavesdropping on telephone calls, emails and faxes without the benefit of court-issued warrants and the assembling of a database, again without court warrants, covering hundreds of millions of domestic telephone calls. The Justice Department has also requested that Internet providers keep two-year records of web sites their customers visit and addresses to which they send email." |
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| walt zink |
actually, the tracking of bank records i think falls under a sub-section of the second patriot act. the second part was overwhelmingly trounced, but it was split up and added as attachments to other bills/laws. this is one part of that.
again, these people know they're being tracked. they can use other forms of monetary transfer other than banks. i seem to think the bush administration is willingly disseminating this information so that the Times and other papers like it WOULD report it. not a set-up, per se, but it reeks of it. |
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| Billyfromsphily |
If it looks like shit and it smells like shit, then its shit!
The blatent disregard for the constitution by this administration is beyond comprehension.
4 th amendment again. |
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| Crazytree |
| the police state is creeping up on us... inch by inch. |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
| Yeah, it's a good thing. The guy that used to do The Force thing got transfered to another department so now they have to actually look for bad guys manually... |
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| Crazytree |
| yea... luckily they've been doing a bang-up job arresting Riley Martin's nephew in Miami. :D |
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| CocoSantango |
| I am publicly declaring my love for Big Brother now, so they won't have to strap me to the chair and force me to do it later..... Love ya Big Bro :mad: |
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| REDbro |
http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/
"Introduction
There is a worldwide conspiracy being orchestrated by an extremely powerful and influential group of genetically-related individuals (at least at the highest echelons) which include many of the world's wealthiest people, top political leaders, and corporate elite, as well as members of the so-called Black Nobility of Europe (dominated by the British Crown) whose goal is to create a One World (fascist) Government, stripped of nationalistic and regional boundaries, that is obedient to their agenda. Their intention is to effect complete and total control over every human being on the planet and to dramatically reduce the world's population by 5.5 Billion people. While the name New World Order is a term frequently used today when referring to this group, it's more useful to identify the principal organizations, institutions, and individuals who make up this vast interlocking spiderweb of elite conspirators. "
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by REDbro
http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/
"Introduction
There is a worldwide conspiracy being orchestrated by an extremely powerful and influential group of genetically-related individuals (at least at the highest echelons) which include many of the world's wealthiest people, top political leaders, and corporate elite, as well as members of the so-called Black Nobility of Europe (dominated by the British Crown) whose goal is to create a One World (fascist) Government, stripped of nationalistic and regional boundaries, that is obedient to their agenda. Their intention is to effect complete and total control over every human being on the planet and to dramatically reduce the world's population by 5.5 Billion people. While the name New World Order is a term frequently used today when referring to this group, it's more useful to identify the principal organizations, institutions, and individuals who make up this vast interlocking spiderweb of elite conspirators. "
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Hey dude, enough of that scary shit, this is a family site!
:nono: |
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| nikkyo |
WASHINGTON, June 26 — President Bush today condemned as "disgraceful" the disclosure last week of a secret program that seeks to investigate and block terrorists by tracing financial records through a banking consortium in Brussels.
The existence of the program was reported beginning on Thursday evening by The New York Times and other newspapers.
"We're at war with a bunch of people who want to hurt the United States of America," Mr. Bush told reporters today. "For people to leak that program, and for a newspaper to publish it, does great harm to the United States of America." He added that it "makes it harder to win the war on terrorism."
Mr. Bush did not single out a particular newspaper. But on Sunday, Representative Peter T. King, Republican of New York, said he was outraged that such a sensitive program had been exposed, and called for a criminal investigation of The Times.
Mr. King said on "Fox News Sunday" that the disclosure was "absolutely disgraceful."
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/26/w...artner=homepage |
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| Ironpirate |
| It was suppose to be a secret.... |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
It was suppose to be a secret.... |
Most crimes are..... |
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| armyofbees |
| typical of a criminal - blame is placed on the one exposing the crime, not on the crime itself. |
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| Ironpirate |
| its a crime, lmao |
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| Kill Van Kull |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
its a crime, lmao |
She finally admits that her sugar-daddy is a criminal. |
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| Ironpirate |
| I swear you would love to give terrorists the advantage everytime. Phones records now this. Who side are you on? |
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| FatesWebb |
| uh WHAT TERRORISTS? THE ONES IN THE OVAL OFFICE? |
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| djb105 |
Oohh watch out! Bogeymen are lurking everywhere just waiting to blow up your shiny SUV and violate your innocent republican daughter. That's why we need to investigate all private personal information of all Americans.
If this administration were serious about fighting terrorism, instead of becoming our fascist overlords, they would stop destroying our intelligence agencies. Instead of putting good crony republican party loyalists into the FBI, CIA, etc., how about letting all those patriotic experienced serious agents and operatives, who quit because of the BS, back into the agenices to do high level targeted intelligence gathering that focuses on the troublemakers. And, ya know like not outing an undercover agent working on stemming the global proliferation of WMD's? Treasonous bastards!
This concept of gathering data on all American citizens to hopefully get the needle-in-the-haystack is absolute crap, and a smokescreen to desensitize people to constantly being monitored.
To all you assholes who gladly give up your liberties because you love this group of criminals, I hope you're the first ones marched into the ovens. |
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| Ironpirate |
| Quote: To all you assholes who gladly give up your liberties because you love this group of criminals, I hope you're the first ones marched into the ovens. |
What liberties? When you have terrorist groups, see they use this stuff called money and the wire it to each other....were just trying to track it. Joe blow has nothing to worry about. Another big fucking deal goes out to the liberals yet again... |
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| Ironpirate |
| "The New York Times and other news organizations ought to think long and hard about whether a public's right to know in some cases might override somebody's right to live." -- Tony Snow |
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| Oz |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
"The New York Times and other news organizations ought to think long and hard about whether a public's right to know in some cases might override somebody's right to live." -- Tony Snow |
gee - who-da thought Snow would say something so anti-American :rolleyes: |
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| Ironpirate |
| "The public doesn't have a right to know. We should know things in order to make intelligent decisions, and the government's activities should be transparent insofar as it does not need to remain secret for the benefit of the republic. But we have no right to know anything. Nor does the New York Times have the right to publish classified data, since by definition that's a violation of law." |
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| djb105 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
What liberties? When you have terrorist groups, see they use this stuff called money and the wire it to each other....were just trying to track it. Joe blow has nothing to worry about. Another big fucking deal goes out to the liberals yet again... |
BTW Pirate, this may shock you, but I'm not a liberal. Does your knee hurt from how fast it jerks in using that label/response? I'm saying that I would love to hear a report that says that our Intelligence is accurate and on the tail of those who need it. I'm already majorly irritated to know about the NSA wiretapping because it monitors ALL calls. That shit is scarier to me than any terrorist.
Also, as the Mafia has proven, criminals can usually figure a way to do something outside of easily monitored channels. I'm looking to hear results from some real serious spy vs spy type stuff. I'm old enough to know that the government didn't have to resort to this kind of intrusive means when we were always at odds with the evil red menace. |
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| Ironpirate |
| If it effects you then let me know... |
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| Crazytree |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
"The public doesn't have a right to know. We should know things in order to make intelligent decisions, and the government's activities should be transparent insofar as it does not need to remain secret for the benefit of the republic. But we have no right to know anything. Nor does the New York Times have the right to publish classified data, since by definition that's a violation of law." |
Are you talking about the outing of Valerie Plame? :rolleyes: |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
What liberties? When you have terrorist groups, see they use this stuff called money and the wire it to each other....were just trying to track it. Joe blow has nothing to worry about. Another big fucking deal goes out to the liberals yet again... |
again what terrorists? the ones in the oval office? where is your evidence? |
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| Crazytree |
I do business overseas as does my family and my soon-to-be-in-laws.
the closest thing we've done to financing terrorism was the time I almost bought FREDDY GOT FINGERED on dvd.
fuck off and stay the fuck away from our bank records. we haven't done anything wrong and we're entitled to financial privacy. |
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| Ironpirate |
Maybe the White House should release all telephone conversations and email archives of all NY Times employees. This is because the public has a "right to know" what kind of business the NY Times runs.
Illegal? Nah! The people's right to know is more important than anything else. |
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| Kill Van Kull |
| Ironpirate says she doesn't read the NYTimes. She said they don't have comics. |
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| Oz |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
Maybe the White House should release all telephone conversations and email archives of all NY Times employees. This is because the public has a "right to know" what kind of business the NY Times runs.
Illegal? Nah! The people's right to know is more important than anything else. |
so you're admitting the gov't is illegally tapping private conversations and transactions - this is a scandal! |
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| jigzaw |
| This isn't even about Americans. They've been tracking international bank transfers ONLY when a known terrorist was a party to the transfer. This has led to the capture of some (like the guy behind the Bali bombings), and the blocking of money from reaching Al Qaeda. The international banking community was helping out in this program and Congress knew about it. It was top secret, broke NO laws and was essential to fighting terrorism, and the fuckers who leaked it should go to jail, and the Times should be ridiculed and boycotted at the least. AND I'M LIBERAL!!! I can't stand Bush, but literally helping Al Qaeda by exposing the limited tools we have to go after them is fucking treasonous. |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
What a lot of people are failing to understand is really quite simple.
The Times has reported that they had meetings with the Government and the Government asked them to not print the story. The _editor_ of the NY Tims has characterized the Governments arguments as "lukewarm."
IOW, the Government _wanted_ the Times to print the story, now they shit all over the Times, label them a enemy of the State and Bush again looks like he's fighting the good fight against the evil-doers and dreaded liberal media. The sheeple eat it up.
Fucking dolts. |
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| GoodyDickman |
| We should stuff Eric the midgets pockets with firecrackers , balloon him and float him over the middle east , drop him down and teach those sand-whores a lesson..... |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by GoodyDickman
We should stuff Eric the midgets pockets with firecrackers , balloon him and float him over the middle east , drop him down and teach those sand-whores a lesson..... |
:blowjob:
Your post sucks |
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| Ironpirate |
| Quote: he's fighting the good fight against the evil-doers and dreaded liberal media. |
yes he is |
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| Crazytree |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
Maybe the White House should release all telephone conversations and email archives of all NY Times employees. This is because the public has a "right to know" what kind of business the NY Times runs.
Illegal? Nah! The people's right to know is more important than anything else. |
democracy requires transparent governance.
nobody gives a shit who the NYT is talking to except for assholes like you. |
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| jigzaw |
| Why don't they just publish where and when the FBI are staking out some murderers or what screen names the pedophile-catchers are using online? I mean, we have a right to know, right? |
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| Crazytree |
are you that stupid? [YES.]
because that type of police operation specifically targets criminals and does not unneccessarily burden lawful behavior. |
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| walt zink |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark
What a lot of people are failing to understand is really quite simple.
The Times has reported that they had meetings with the Government and the Government asked them to not print the story. The _editor_ of the NY Tims has characterized the Governments arguments as "lukewarm."
IOW, the Government _wanted_ the Times to print the story, now they shit all over the Times, label them a enemy of the State and Bush again looks like he's fighting the good fight against the evil-doers and dreaded liberal media. The sheeple eat it up.
Fucking dolts. |
this is exactly what i said early on in this thread.....kudos to you, brother....
i will say it time and time again....these people we're fighting are NOT stupid. they will find different avenues to communicate and assimilate with our society. what the NYTimes is reporting is an incredibly vague story about what the government is doing, without specifics.
i can't help but think of the movie "V for Vendetta" when this NYTimes slandering comes up. god forbid these people have different morals than those that use patriotism to blind better judgement. |
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| djb105 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
If it effects you then let me know... |
It AFFECTS me because as a private citizen, I love privacy. My feelings are based on the idea that our Decmocratic system promotes and celebrates privacy. If we give that up to try and be safe from terrorists, then the terrorists have indeed won. |
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| Ironpirate |
| haha, I like how you think this involves yourself. Watch out for the boogeyman. |
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| Crazytree |
National Review is claiming that the Supreme Court said "30 years ago" that you have no right to privacy in information in the possession of a third party.
I would then ask the author of that opinion piece to please FedEx me copies of all his medical, financial and psychiatric records. |
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| djb105 |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
haha, I like how you think this involves yourself. Watch out for the boogeyman. |
I have not even hinted that I am directly involved in any of these actions. You seem to be intentionally obtuse about the point I'm trying to make. I'm not someone who doesn't care about anything unless it directly involves me. I'm one of these types that cares about the promise of privacy for all citizens. If that isn't something guaranteed for all Americans, then it isn't really guaranteed for any one citizen.
I understand that private information may be needed in the interest of national security. But, there should be legal protections/proceedings that control and safeguard this type of activity. As I've seen from the NSA wiretapping, this administration feels that it doesn't have to follow even the most minimum requirements of obtaining warrants. That's scary!
Be as glib as you want. If you look at history, it's this kind of dismissing of safeguards that have always led to tyranny. |
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| walt zink |
| it does affect american citizens in the sense that there's even a possibility of our privacy being invaded. the thing is, if our intel agnecies are truly as smart as they lead us to believe, they would be able to do such things without casting broad laws that allow them to investigate the bank records of practically anyone they view as an "enemy". simply because i choose to read "the communist manifesto" doesn't mean i am an enemy of the state. i am choosing to broaden my horizons and grasp a greater understanding of more than just capitalism. that goes for practically any other ideology or set of philosophies that aren't capitalist. free thinking is going by the wayside, and it's a rather sad thing that i cannot think freely without fear of repercussion if i so choose to make my feelings very public. |
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| djb105 |
| Beautifully put Walt. It's reassuring to see that other people understand concepts on a broader scale. |
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| incoherent |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
haha, I like how you think this involves yourself. Watch out for the boogeyman. |
Ha ha. I like how you think abortion rights involves YOURSELF.
Ironpirate seems to think that no one need be concernend about government violations if they are not explicitly the target. What a sad excuse for thinking.
Moreover, invasion of privacy DOES involve us.
Once Bush decides to violate our sytem of checks and balances, what's to stop him from abusing this power to investigate his political opponents?
Not a damn thing. No one would even know except Bush and his cronies.
But then Ironpirate would probably think that's a good thing. Right? |
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| incoherent |
More Bush-league cut and run?
It's been over two weeks since Ironpirate fled the board rather than address this:
Quote: Originally posted by incoherent
Ha ha. I like how you think abortion rights involves YOURSELF.
Ironpirate seems to think that no one need be concernend about government violations if they are not explicitly the target. What a sad excuse for thinking.
Moreover, invasion of privacy DOES involve us.
Once Bush decides to violate our sytem of checks and balances, what's to stop him from abusing this power to investigate his political opponents?
Not a damn thing. No one would even know except Bush and his cronies.
But then Ironpirate would probably think that's a good thing. Right? |
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| walt zink |
and why aren't right wing pundits able to defend this:
the bush administration WILLFULLY told the press in a meeting, THEN goes and says "but yeah, don't publish this, pretty please".
i mean, c'mon now....that's like a father telling his kid not to play with something even though it's fun, then the kid goes and does it....flawed logic, or perhaps they wanted the times to publish it to keep ripping them apart as "anti-american" which is utter horseshit. |
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