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The Objective Truth
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| The Objective Truth
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| Abba |
Many accusation have been flung around by the media and spokespeople from both sides of this conflict.
Although I'm short on time, I figured I would put some thoughts down and hopefully start a factual discussion on one of the preeminent topics of my recent life.
Hizbollah:
-They are considered a terrorist organization by the powers that be. Our media has them labeled and there is no room for relativity.
On the one hand, they have carried out attacks against civilian targets, which by it's very definition makes them terrorists. They are responsible for the Marine Barracks bombing in Beirut in 1982 that claimed the lives of more than 200 of our brave service members. They "instigated" this most recent conflict by capturing 2 Israeli soldiers in a cross border raid.
+ The other hand displays a different perspective. Hizbollah is the only force in the Middle East that has recently checked Israel's agressions against the Palestinians and the neighboring countries. During Lebanon's long and brutal civil war, it was Hizbollah that provided many critical social services for the distraught and downtrodden population. They were created to repel the Israeli invasion of Lebanon which resulted in the brutal SLAUGHTER of thousands of Palestinians in refugee camps in the suburbs of Beirut. Many people throughout the Middle East respect Hizbollah as the only military organization that fights on behalf of the Palestinians, who have been marginalized time and time again, their land taken, their orchards razed hence the destructions of hundreds of thousands of adult fruit bearing trees, their homes destroyed and many in their population kidnapped and sent to prison with no fair trial and no opportunity to confront their accuser or a chance to clear their name. Hizbollah so far has been the only entity to take the side of the Palestinians the way the US by default wholeheartedly takes the side of Israel no matter what the conflict.
Incidentally, Hizbollah claims that Israel in fact started this latest conflict by adbucting a Palestinian Doctor in Gaza and his brother, killing his son and wife on their doorstep, and by shelling a Gaza beach at the end of June, killing an entire family picnicing there and failed in killing any militant forces. Haaretz confirmed this.
Israel:
- The recipient of billions of US dollars yearly in the form of Grants, Military Aid and training, and subsidised loans.
Their very presence is responsible for the modern tensions in the Middel East, due in large part to their occupation of lands inhabited by millions of Palestinians. They daily inflict harm on the Palestinian civilian population through military strike targeting "militants" in the process, killing and wounding scores of Palestinian civilians in every attack. In addition to the abductions in Gaza, Israel currently holds more than 10,000 prisoners from Lebanon and Palestine. They recently also shelled a Gaza beach and killed a family picnincing on the meditteranean.
- An ally to the United States, providing valuable intelligence on terrorists and those wish to do harm to America. They have used the latest technologies to create a true metropolis in an area once thought of as a wasteland, rivaled only by Dubai in the UAE. The rule of Law means everything there, a rarity in that part of the world. According to their proclamations, they truly want peace.
It should be noted that AIPAC, the Israeli lobby here in the United States is regarded by many as one of the most influential lobbies here, and much of the funds directed toward Israeli aid make their way back to our Congress in the form of campaign contributions to help push pro-Israeli legislation. Additionally, according to the letter of the law of the US Arms Export Control Act, Israel is actually breaking an agreement with the United States by using American manufactured military weaponry to attack Lebanese civilian targets and infrastructure and undertaking a war of agression.
Also interesting is the fact that during the first decades of Israel's life, it used many of the tactics it today lauds against The British, The Palestinians, and it's surrounding Arab neighbors. These tactics include car bombs, other IED's, kidnappings, intimidation, and other "terrorist" tactics.
Lebanon:
Lebanon has suffered through a multi-decades long brutal civil war. For a time, it was used as a proxy of foreign powers to settle their disputes without personally getting involved. A country roughly the size of Long Island, it currently has a population of 4 million, although since the end of the civil war the last million was added. It has also recieved billions of dollars in foreign aid to rebuild the ravaged cities and countryside, as of late restoring Beirut to one of the Major Cosmopolitan centers in the whole of the Middle East. It was once called the "Paris of the Orient".
- Lebanon has ben rife with detrimental involvement of outside forces. On Valentines day, 2005, the new Patriarch and the Titular leader of it's rebirth, Rafik Harriri was brutally assasinated. Months later, a prominent reporter was the target of a car bomb. Fingers were pointed at Syria for both of these attacks, and in a moment of national unity, the Lebanese forced the immediate and complete withdrawal of all Syrian troops from Lebanon. Nevertheless, Syria still plays a noteable role in Lebanese affairs.
Additionally, Iran has influence in Lebanon through it's proxy militia, Hizbollah. Initially created to repel the Israeli invasion in the early 1980's, Hizbollah has since morphed into a social, political, and military movement within the country. As of late they continue to operate with impunity in southern Lebanon preeminently.
As of July 2006, the Lebanese government has been unable to reign in the only remaining militia on it's soil due to it's small army which has been rebuilt for the last 6 years after cessation of the civil war and the reformation of it's forces. By this morning (7/21), Lebanon has lost at least 300 civilians, only one of which is a confirmed Hizbollah kill, and has suffered at least a conservative $2 billion in civilian infrastructure damage.
- Through mostly it's own initiative, Lebanon has achieved what we have spent trillions on in Iraq. They have held a series of legitimate, widely accepted free and fair elections certified by the UN (we have yet to accomplish that in the US). They have taken the language of extremism and virtually extinguished it throughout their country, hence the massive influx of many hundreds of thousands of western visitors every single year. It's main income comes from tourism, an industry the country is well suited for. In it's 200 mile stretch it encompasses ancient Phoenician and Roman ruins, religious sites holy to all 3 monotheistic faiths, ultra-modern fashion houses, and many other landmarks of historical significance. These include the Rouche (Pidgeon Rocks), Al-Minara (a century old lighthouse), the Caves at Jitta, and of course, the world famous Cedars of Lebanon, which because of rampant culling by first the Ottomans and then the French and Syrians, only exist in one small grove high in the Lebanese mountains. To the Lebanese nation, this sight evokes reverance approaching that of a holy site.
Please feel free to add to this. I have attempted to illustrate both sides as objectively and as factually as possible. If I missed something, I truly apologize and blame it on my other obligations which force me to leave now and deal with other matters.
I hope that this will spark and objective and informed discussion free from political biases and spin. |
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| sternowitz |
| HEY jerk off, Hezzbolah just said they are going to start attacking US interests. They are not our fucken friends. * That is a fucken fact for you* If you want to stand up for Hezbollah, go to fucken Beirut, syria, whatever. Stop bothering normal Americans with your bullshit |
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| Ironpirate |
| Im sick of americans defending these terrorist groups around the world. AND ITS THE LEFT SIDE. You want talks and dipolmacy with these groups. IT doesnt work. They want death and unrule. |
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| Stickman |
I think Abba has presented a very accurate and objective description.
I support people, whether Palestinian, Israeli, or Lebanese. I see terrorism as a convenient tool by both hungry war hawks, who expand military spending, and Arab leadership to exploit the suffering of the impoverished.
Can you support human rights, the right of Israeli citizens to live in peace and independent Palestinian and Lebanese nations? I know it's idealistic, but I blame leadership: American, Israeli and Arab. |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by sternowitz
HEY jerk off, Hezzbolah just said they are going to start attacking US interests. They are not our fucken friends. * That is a fucken fact for you* If you want to stand up for Hezbollah, go to fucken Beirut, syria, whatever. Stop bothering normal Americans with your bullshit |
Do you understand now why you're a retard? It's prettty plain, please see quote above.
Hizbollah considers our many statements over the past couple of days to be complete collusionwith Israel's actions. In that vein we are on the same side as them, aiding and abetting what Human rights and international law experts categorise as "criminal behavior".
I think that's basicall why Hizbollah doesn't like us very much.
Ask yourself, if you have that capability, what have we done to stem the tide of civilian deaths and destruction of civilian infrastructure in Lebanon over the past week and 1/2? Why are our citizens being evacuated? Here's a hint. They don't fear Hizbollah, but something much closer to home, namely, F-16's. I wonder what country makes them.... |
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| Stonewall |
Abba,
Hezbollah is a group who owes it's existence to Iran. According to al Jazeera.com:
Quote: Hezbollah was formed from numerous other Lebanese Shia groups shortly after Israel's 1982 invasion, largely fought in mainly Shia southern Lebanon. The group was conceived by Iran, or at least was aided in its inception by the arrival in Lebanon of 1,500 Islamic revolutionary guards from Iran, three years after that country's own Islamic Revolution in 1979. Iran, as an Islamic republic remains a close ally, financial backer, arms supplier and model for Hezbollah. Syria backs Hezbollah morally and has also supplied it with money and arms, such as Katyusha rockets.
One of the main objective of Hezbollah at the time was to spread the Iranian Revolution. Since then, the party has publicly declared that it will suspend its attempts to create an islamic state in Lebanon "because the conditions are not met". It remained underground for a number of years and did not make a public announcement of its existence till 1985, until which time its earliest members operated under the auspices of the "Lebanese National Resistance", an amalgam of forces united in their opposition to the Israeli invasion. |
Al Jazeera .com
Hezbollah is a group that has made War on Israel without the input of the Lebanese Gov't.. A Democratic elected Gov't.. It is acting as a seperate power inside Lebanon. It could very well be acting at the behest of Iran.
In addition to the Marines being killed in the 1980's, also in another attack the U.S. Embassy was destroyed. The U.S. Marines were part of an international peacekeeping force. Other countries involved also suffered attack by Hezbollah and what was supposed to be a peacekeeping effort finally left Lebanon. These attacks would occur again if another international peacekeeping mission is sent to Lebanon. Only Syria it seems is able to enjoy an occupation of Lebanon "peacefully". Syria is a great friend of Hezbollah. |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Abba,
Hezbollah is a group who owes it's existence to Iran. According to al Jazeera.com:
Al Jazeera .com
Hezbollah is a group that has made War on Israel without the input of the Lebanese Gov't.. A Democratic elected Gov't.. It is acting as a seperate power inside Lebanon. It could very well be acting at the behest of Iran.
In addition to the Marines being killed in the 1980's, also in another attack the U.S. Embassy was destroyed. The U.S. Marines were part of an international peacekeeping force. Other countries involved also suffered attack by Hezbollah and what was supposed to be a peacekeeping effort finally left Lebanon. These attacks would occur again if another international peacekeeping mission is sent to Lebanon. Only Syria it seems is able to enjoy an occupation of Lebanon "peacefully". Syria is a great friend of Hezbollah. |
Thanks for the factual input and not hysterically about biases.:) |
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| Robinsmuff |
Quote: Originally posted by sternowitz
HEY jerk off, Hezzbolah just said they are going to start attacking US interests. They are not our fucken friends. * That is a fucken fact for you* If you want to stand up for Hezbollah, go to fucken Beirut, syria, whatever. Stop bothering normal Americans with your bullshit |
He didn't defend them. He simply provided information as he understands it to be. Much like the current administration you hate knowledge. Nothing a Neo-con hates more than knowledge. Knowledge is like Kryptonite to a Neo-con.
Hezbollah is a terrorist organization who is not a friend of the USA, but we still must exam & understand why they have gained popularity in the mid-east. What motivates them? Simply dismissing all terrorist groups as crazy people will not help us defeat the problem. We must be willing to examin the world from their perspective & gain a better understanding of why millions of Arabs share their agenda.
You can't bomb people who are not afraid to die into submission. Israel has been killing Palestinians in retaliation for terrorist acts for years & as of today the resistance is only stronger. |
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