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Britian, Stop feeding the Crocodile...it needs to be killed.
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| Britian, Stop feeding the Crocodile...it needs to be killed.
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| NCMike06 |
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/wm1194.cfm
Quote: Reject Appeasement
As Sir Winston Churchill once noted, “An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping that it will eat him last.” |
Quote: Britain Must Reject Appeasement of Islamic Terrorists
by Nile Gardiner, Ph.D.
WebMemo #1194
August 15, 2006 | |
In an open letter to the British Prime Minister responding to last week’s successful anti-terror operations, the leaders of 38 Muslim groups and six Muslim politicians called for immediate changes to British foreign policy, which is “ammunition to extremists who threaten us all.”[1] The letter attacked the “debacle of Iraq” and, in reference to Israeli military action in Lebanon, faulted “the failure to do more to secure an immediate end to the attacks on civilians in the Middle East.” It stated that “current British government policy risks putting civilians at increased risk both in the U.K. and abroad.”
This letter is a wake-up call to the British government. It shatters any illusions that the government’s policy of engagement with leading “moderate” Muslim groups since the 2005 London bombings has reaped any benefits. Downing Street must now rethink its top-down approach to reaching out to the U.K.’s two million Muslims.
Coming just two days after the U.K. averted a 9/11-scale atrocity by arresting 24 British Muslim terror suspects, the Muslim leaders’ letter blames British foreign policy for the attempted attacks. This is a thinly veiled threat: Britain should expect more terror attacks unless it changes its worldview. The letter does not condemn the terrorists involved, attempting instead to establish moral equivalence between the Anglo-American-led war on terror and the actions of brutal terrorists.
This statement from so many of Britain’s most prominent Muslims—its signatories include the leaders of the largest Muslim organizations in Britain, such as the Muslim Association of Britain, the Muslim Council of Britain, the British Muslim Forum, and the Muslim Solidarity Committee—should prove a watershed moment in how the British government interacts with the large Muslim organizations that claim to speak on behalf of moderate Islam. The United Kingdom must not give in to blackmail and intimidation. British foreign policy should be shaped by national interest and by British values, not by pressure groups threatening dire consequences if their demands are not met. Downing Street and the Foreign Office should cut ties with organizations that support extremist positions and actively engage truly moderate Muslims who are committed to supporting the war on terrorism.
An Act of Disloyalty
The open letter by Muslim leaders is a cynical act of disloyalty toward Britain. It echoes the propaganda of militant Islamic extremist organizations like al-Qaeda, expounding the view that the West is to blame for terrorist attacks because of its support for Israel and its actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other parts of the Islamic world. After the 2005 London bombings, al-Qaeda’s second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri told the British people in a taped broadcast that “Blair’s policies brought you destruction in central London and will bring you more destruction,” warning of further attacks unless “the people of the crusader coalition…leave Muslim land.”[2] Last week’s open letter echoes this sentiment.
The open letter to Tony Blair is the modern-day equivalent of the anti-British propaganda spewed by fascists in the 1930s and 1940s. And it raises new questions of collaboration between some Muslims organizations and radical Islamists, ties that have been exposed in several recently published studies.[3]
The British government should support a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the relationship between Britain’s leading Muslim groups and radical Islamic organizations and individuals, as well as the sources of funding for these bodies. In addition, parliament should hold hearings on the activities of leading Muslim organizations. In the United States, the Department of Homeland Security should increase its scrutiny of British Muslim leaders who may have links with extremist groups in the United Kingdom, Pakistan, or elsewhere and bar any that do from entering the U.S.
Reject Appeasement
As Sir Winston Churchill once noted, “An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping that it will eat him last.”
The near-catastrophic attempted terrorist attacks on American airliners flying from London to the United States underscore that the world is engaged in an epic war against Islamic terrorism. Not only America’s conflict, it is also Britain’s war, Europe’s war, and the free world’s war. Had the terrorists been successful, thousands of people of multiple nationalities and religions would have been killed. Britain has thus become a central front in the war on terrorism, and British security services are currently involved in 70 anti-terrorist investigations, including 24 “major conspiracies.”[4]
But the unchallenged appeasement of terrorism by Britain’s Muslim leaders sets a dangerous precedent and will only increase the likelihood of terrorist attacks on British soil. British ministers, as well as leaders of the opposition Conservative Party, should condemn the statements of Muslim leaders linking the actions of homegrown terrorists to the British- and American-led war on terrorism.
Britain needs a new generation of Muslim leaders who are untainted by association with, or sympathy for, Islamic extremism and who are proud of their British identity. They must be willing to condemn terrorism unequivocally and help root out extremists from Muslim communities. Their role in helping defeat Islamic terrorism will be invaluable.
At the same time, Britain must redouble its efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, where British, American, and other Allied forces are actively engaged in the fight against al-Qaeda. The war against Islamic fascism will make Britain and the rest of Europe safer and sap the strength of Islamic extremism inside the U.K. The British Government should reject the message of appeasement and remind the U.K.’s Muslim leaders that Britain is a nation at war with a vicious terrorist movement and ideology whose goal is the destruction of the West. |
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| Abba |
Do you really think that fucking with a region of the world for over a century and denying a people self- determination for simplistic selfish goals would have no consequences?
England is responsible for the the catalyst of the most basic beef of the Middle East, ie: The creation of Israel on land ANNEXED from it's indigenous population in a deal made during WWII without the least bit of concern for the Palestinians.
Then, England is involved with numerous coups of Democratically elected governments in the ME, including the coups that brought Saddam Hussein to power, and the involvement in the events which led to the revolution in Iran.
The way we fight terrorism is fuckin stupid. It's like using all your effort to get a clean tissue to wipe your runny nose when you have a cold, instead of trying to boost your immune system to beat the thing. Terrorism is simply a tool, a symptom of a much larger, infinately more complicated mentality which has lost all hope in life and instead forces the users of that meathod to have no alternative other than lashing out at the very people who's careless apathy towards the Middle East has led to the destitution of millions of innocent lives.
Can you grasp what has been said, or is "They hate us for our freedom" all you can fathom? |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Do you really think that fucking with a region of the world for over a century and denying a people self- determination for simplistic selfish goals would have no consequences?
England is responsible for the the catalyst of the most basic beef of the Middle East, ie: The creation of Israel on land ANNEXED from it's indigenous population in a deal made during WWII without the least bit of concern for the Palestinians.
Then, England is involved with numerous coups of Democratically elected governments in the ME, including the coups that brought Saddam Hussein to power, and the involvement in the events which led to the revolution in Iran.
The way we fight terrorism is fuckin stupid. It's like using all your effort to get a clean tissue to wipe your runny nose when you have a cold, instead of trying to boost your immune system to beat the thing. Terrorism is simply a tool, a symptom of a much larger, infinately more complicated mentality which has lost all hope in life and instead forces the users of that meathod to have no alternative other than lashing out at the very people who's careless apathy towards the Middle East has led to the destitution of millions of innocent lives.
Can you grasp what has been said, or is "They hate us for our freedom" all you can fathom? |
That is probably the opinion of many Muslims in America and Britain. Considering it is a response to an internal problem inside of a Western Country, your post shows why Muslims should be returned to their home countries. They should never have come to the West if they hated the West. This is like allowing Nazi immigration right before WWII. |
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| Abba |
You happen to be a huge idiot because this IS my home, schmuck. Do you think you have a lock on America just because you burn in the sun or your momma and aunt are the same person?
U surely are an idiot, and should be ashamed at the way we've acted in MANY parts of the world since the early 1900's. Do you think any part of South America likes us? We have problems far beyond the Middle East. The only difference is that we don't have a huge vested interest in South America because we're not funding an insurgent state after a massive ethnic cleansing campaign. |
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| FatesWebb |
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| Billyfromsphily |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
That is probably the opinion of many Muslims in America and Britain. Considering it is a response to an internal problem inside of a Western Country, your post shows why Muslims should be returned to their home countries. They should never have come to the West if they hated the West. This is like allowing Nazi immigration right before WWII. |
Allowing any kind of Immigration was not in practice before WW2. It was extremely difficult , so don't male holllow analogies. ABBA makes valid points. The sun has set on the British empireand it is setting on usjust as surely! |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Do you really think that fucking with a region of the world for over a century and denying a people self- determination for simplistic selfish goals would have no consequences? |
The only people denying self determination to Arabs are ARAB LEADERS !!! Please list for me the fair and free elections in the recent past in the Arab world NOT including Iraq and Afghanistan. Are you Fucking insane???
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
England is responsible for the the catalyst of the most basic beef of the Middle East, ie: The creation of Israel on land ANNEXED from it's indigenous population in a deal made during WWII without the least bit of concern for the Palestinians.
Then, England is involved with numerous coups of Democratically elected governments in the ME, including the coups that brought Saddam Hussein to power, and the involvement in the events which led to the revolution in Iran. |
First of all, the Palastinians couldnt give 2 shits about the land Israel was created on, until the State of Israel existed. Secondly, the Palastinians REJECTED their own country at the same time Israel was created. Through the years Arab countries have used the Palastinian people as a weapon against Israel and done nothing to help them. Arafat stole billions from his own people (another nasty habit in the Arab world) and continued to do NOTHING but plunge his people into more and more despair.
If the Palestinians would spend half the time working for a better future for themselves that they spend hating and attacking Israel, there would already be a successful Palestinian state.
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
The way we fight terrorism is fuckin stupid. It's like using all your effort to get a clean tissue to wipe your runny nose when you have a cold, instead of trying to boost your immune system to beat the thing. Terrorism is simply a tool, a symptom of a much larger, infinately more complicated mentality which has lost all hope in life and instead forces the users of that meathod to have no alternative other than lashing out at the very people who's careless apathy towards the Middle East has led to the destitution of millions of innocent lives.
Can you grasp what has been said, or is "They hate us for our freedom" all you can fathom? |
If this is true they would be lashing out at THEIR OWN LEADERS !! The leaders of the Arab world teach and preach hatred of the west to take attention off the real culprit...THEMSELVES. How is it also, that so called 'repressed' terrorists would put in place a government more repressive and fanatical than the regime they would be replacing. The only time terrorists ever attack the Arab governments is when they feel those governments are becoming more Westernized. (read modern) The United States has done more to HELP the Arab people in the past 5 years, than all Arab countries have in the past 50.
Bush has the answer...to spread democracy and capitalism to this part of the world...how can you be against that and supposedly be PRO Arab??
What world are you living in.? |
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| NYNJUK |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Do you really think that fucking with a region of the world for over a century and denying a people self- determination for simplistic selfish goals would have no consequences?
England is responsible for the the catalyst of the most basic beef of the Middle East, ie: The creation of Israel on land ANNEXED from it's indigenous population in a deal made during WWII without the least bit of concern for the Palestinians.
Then, England is involved with numerous coups of Democratically elected governments in the ME, including the coups that brought Saddam Hussein to power, and the involvement in the events which led to the revolution in Iran.
The way we fight terrorism is fuckin stupid. It's like using all your effort to get a clean tissue to wipe your runny nose when you have a cold, instead of trying to boost your immune system to beat the thing. Terrorism is simply a tool, a symptom of a much larger, infinately more complicated mentality which has lost all hope in life and instead forces the users of that meathod to have no alternative other than lashing out at the very people who's careless apathy towards the Middle East has led to the destitution of millions of innocent lives.
Can you grasp what has been said, or is "They hate us for our freedom" all you can fathom? |
RIGHT FUCKIN' ON!!!! |
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| NYNJUK |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
The only people denying self determination to Arabs are ARAB LEADERS !!! Please list for me the fair and free elections in the recent past in the Arab world NOT including Iraq and Afghanistan. Are you Fucking insane???
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Yeah...so I guess the Bush/Gore Election was not fixed??? Fuck Bush and Fuck the Republicans |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by NYNJUK
Yeah...so I guess the Bush/Gore Election was not fixed??? Fuck Bush and Fuck the Republicans |
What a stunning analysis.... |
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| Billyfromsphily |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
What a stunning analysis.... |
Not quite as stunning as your complete lack of character! |
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| NYNJUK |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
What a stunning analysis.... |
What...are you denying it was fix? Not allowing minorities to vote in a Republican state, with the possibility of losing the state and the election...that's not a fix???.... |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Please list for me the fair and free elections in the recent past in the Arab world NOT including Iraq and Afghanistan. A |
Free and fair elections, that is quite a concept. |
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| NYNJUK |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
Free and fair elections, that is quite a concept. |
It's right up there with world peace.... |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by NYNJUK
What...are you denying it was fix? Not allowing minorities to vote in a Republican state, with the possibility of losing the state and the election...that's not a fix???.... |
I know this will be useless, but...please list specific examples of minorities who were 'not allowed' to vote.
This should be funny, if nothing else... |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
You happen to be a huge idiot because this IS my home, schmuck. Do you think you have a lock on America just because you burn in the sun or your momma and aunt are the same person?
U surely are an idiot, and should be ashamed at the way we've acted in MANY parts of the world since the early 1900's. Do you think any part of South America likes us? We have problems far beyond the Middle East. The only difference is that we don't have a huge vested interest in South America because we're not funding an insurgent state after a massive ethnic cleansing campaign. |
Yes and Muslims are well aware of all evil things done by America. We understand, thanks for the update.
How about things that the religion of peace have done? Do you have a ready collection of those facts? Do they shame you?
The wars they have created in history? The conquests for "Allah"? Whatever happened to the Assyrians? The Egyptians? I wonder all through N. Africa do Arabs come from N. Africa? I'll have to check on that...There is Arabia somewhere.
The Sudan, Muslims are having fun there. I never hear complaints though, it's not like Lebanon being attacked and a few civilians killed. Where are all the pictures of the tens of thousands killed in the Sudan? I can't seem to find a thread devoted to them, no on-line scrapbook. You don't have evil Jews killing them Muslims in the Sudan, maybe thats why we can't be bombarded with images of children bombed. What purpose would it serve? None, there is no political or mental games with pictures of Muslims killing Muslims in the Sudan. No value.
No pictures of Somalia dead.
I had to dig up a stoning video. No complaints over that behavior in the Muslim world. No scrapbooks of dead to those victims, nothing to be gained by it. Only dead Muslims killed by non-Muslims is what we get to view. Thats worth something. That carries political advantage and stirs up hatred taught and learned by Muslims. But that has served it's purpose. We went to war against Serbia because of pictures of dead Muslims. Stopped destruction of a Terror group because of pictures of dead Muslims. |
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| NYNJUK |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
I know this will be useless, but...please list specific examples of minorities who were 'not allowed' to vote.
This should be funny, if nothing else... |
The communties in which they did not get their votes counted just happen to be populated with minorities. Didn't a group of them go to Congress and pleaded with all the politicians, including Gore, the prick, to have their votes counted and basically brush them aside? That shit ain't funny... |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
I know this will be useless, but...please list specific examples of minorities who were 'not allowed' to vote.
This should be funny, if nothing else... |
would you like that in XLS format?
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=122 |
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| NCMike06 |
So in an effort to make sure ex felons do not vote, there were a few errors and that somehow proves a 'fix' of the election??? Each particular county had the opportunity, and some took it, to verify the list that was sent to them from the state. Simple due-diligence such as this prevents these errors.
Not to mention that just 5 real exceptions are listed. Even if the number was higher, you would have to prove that:
a) these people would have voted
b) they would have voted for Gore
Finally, I am sure that these few individuals who may not been able to vote due to clerical errors or bad methodology, is MORE than offset by individuals who did vote and probably weren't eligible to vote...ie voter fraud.
Is this the best proof you have that the election was 'fixed'?? |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
So in an effort to make sure ex felons do not vote, there were a few errors and that somehow proves a 'fix' of the election??? Each particular county had the opportunity, and some took it, to verify the list that was sent to them from the state. Simple due-diligence such as this prevents these errors.
Not to mention that just 5 real exceptions are listed. Even if the number was higher, you would have to prove that:
a) these people would have voted
b) they would have voted for Gore
Finally, I am sure that these few individuals who may not been able to vote due to clerical errors or bad methodology, is MORE than offset by individuals who did vote and probably weren't eligible to vote...ie voter fraud.
Is this the best proof you have that the election was 'fixed'?? |
the list had 57,000 votes, and much more than 5 were false. but since you ASKED for a list lets start with these. notice HOW SOME HAVE NEVER BEEN ARRESTED?
defend EVEN ONE VOTE being fraudulent by your bush family!
you see here is where I win, because I know all the crimes of your bush family, and you cannot defend this FELONY!! this is a FELONY!!
come on mike defend thier voter fraud, and still keep your own face....
THE GREAT FLORIDA EX-CON GAME
How the 'felon' voter-purge was itself felonious
Harper's Magazine
Friday, March 1, 2002
E-Mail Article
Printer Friendly Version
by Greg Palast
In November the U.S. media, lost in patriotic reverie, dressed up the Florida recount as a victory for President Bush. But however one reads the ballots, Bush's win would certainly have been jeopardized had not some Floridians been barred from casting ballots at all. Between May 1999 and Election Day 2000, two Florida secretaries of state - Sandra Mortham and Katherine Harris, both protégées of Governor Jeb Bush- ordered 57,700 "ex-felons," who are prohibited from voting by state law, to be removed from voter rolls. (In the thirty-five states where former felons can vote, roughly 90 percent vote Democratic.) A portion of the list, which was compiled for Florida by DBT Online, can be seen for the first time here; DBT, a company now owned by ChoicePoint of Atlanta, was paid $4.3 million for its work, replacing a firm that charged $5,700 per year for the same service. If the hope was that DBT would enable Florida to exclude more voters, then the state appears to have spent its money wisely.
Click here to view full size
Two of these "scrub lists," as officials called them, were distributed to counties in the months before the election with orders to remove the voters named. Together the lists comprised nearly 1 percent of Florida?s electorate and nearly 3 percent of its African-American voters. Most of the voters (such as "David Butler," (1); a name that appears 77 times in Florida phone books) were selected because their name, gender, birthdate and race matched - or nearly matched - one of the tens of millions of ex-felons in the United States. Neither DBT nor the state conducted any further research to verify the matches. DBT, which frequently is hired by the F.B.I. to conduct manhunts, originally proposed using address histories and financial records to confirm the names, but the state declined the cross-checks. In Harris?s elections office files, next to DBT?s sophisticated verification plan, there is a hand-written note: ?DON?T NEED.?
Thomas Alvin Cooper (2), twenty-eight, was flagged because of a crime for which he will be convicted in the year 2007. According to Florida?s elections division, this intrepid time-traveler will cover his tracks by moving to Ohio, adding a middle name, and changing his race. Harper's found 325 names on the list with conviction dates in the future, a fact that did not escape Department of Elections workers, who, in June 2000 emails headed, ?Future Conviction Dates," termed the discovery, "bad news.? Rather than release this whacky data to skeptical counties, Janet Mudrow, state liaison to DBT, suggested that ?blanks would be preferable in these cases." (Harper's counted 4,917 blank conviction dates.) The one county that checked each of the 694 names on its local list could verify only 34 as actual felony convicts. Some counties defied Harris' directives; Madison County's elections supervisor Linda Howell refused the purge list after she found her own name on it.
Rev. Willie Dixon (3), seventy, was guilty of a crime in his youth; but one phone call would have told the state that it had already pardoned Dixon and restored his right to vote. On behalf of Dixon and other excluded voters, the NAACP in January 2001 sued Florida and Harris, after finding that African-Americans?who account for 13 percent of Florida's electorate and 46 percent of U.S. felony convictions ?were four times as likely as whites to be incorrectly singled out under the state's methodology. After the election, Harris and her elections chief Clay Roberts, testified under oath that verifying the lists was solely the work of county supervisors. But the Florida-DBT contract (marked "Secret" and ?Confidential?) holds DBT responsible for ?manual verification using telephone calls.? in fact, with the state?s blessing, DBT did not call a single felon. When I asked Roberts about the contract during an interview for BBC television, Roberts ripped off his microphone, ran into his office, locked the door, and called in state troopers to remove us.
Johnny Jackson Jr. (4), thirty-two, has never been to Texas, and his mother swears he never had the middle name ?Fitzgerald.? Neither is there evidence that John Fitzgerald Jackson, felon of Texas, has ever left the Lone Star State. But even if they were the same man, removing him from Florida?s voter rolls is an unconstitutional act. Texas is among the thirty five states where ex-felons are permitted to vote, and the "full faith and credit" clause of the U.S. Constitution forbids states to revoke any civil rights that a citizen has been granted by another state; in fact, the Florida Supreme Court had twice ordered the state not to do so, just nine months before the voter purge. Nevertheless, at least 2,873 voters were wrongly removed, a purge authorized by a September 18, 2000 letter to counties from Governor Bush's clemency office. On February 23, 2001, days after the U.S. Commission of Civil Rights began investigating the matters, Bush's office issued a new letter allowing these persons to vote; no copies of the earlier letter could be found in the clemency office or on its computers.
Wallace McDonald (5), sixty-four, lost his right to vote in 2000, though his sole run-in with the law was a misdemeanor in 1959. (He fell asleep on a bus-stop bench.) Of the "matches' on these lists, the civil-rights commission estimated that at least 14 percent - or 8,000 voters, nearly 15 times Bush's official margin of victory - were false. DBT claims it warned officials "a significant number of people who were not a felon would be included on the list"; but the state, the company now says, "wanted there to be more names than were actually verified." Last May, Florida's legislature barred Harris from using outside firms to build the purge list and ordered her to seek guidance from county elections officials. In defiance, Harris has rebuffed the counties and hired another firm, just in time for Jeb Bush's reelection fight this fall. |
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| NYNJUK |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
So in an effort to make sure ex felons do not vote, there were a few errors and that somehow proves a 'fix' of the election???
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Sounds like a politician...again fuck the republicans... |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
the list had 57,000 votes, and much more than 5 were false. but since you ASKED for a list lets start with these. notice HOW SOME HAVE NEVER BEEN ARRESTED?
defend EVEN ONE VOTE being fraudulent by your bush family!
you see here is where I win, because I know all the crimes of your bush family, and you cannot defend this FELONY!! this is a FELONY!!
come on mike defend thier voter fraud, and still keep your own face....
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- How many were false???
- Why were only 5 examples listed?
- Who verified the information listed?
- How many of those supposedly denied the right to vote actually tried to vote?
- WHo would they have voted for anyway, and how can you confirm this information??
- Had nothing been done, there is the possibility that a greater percentage of the 57,000 might have been able to vote illegally anyway. This entire process MAY HAVE DECREASED voter fraud on that point alone.
- Please tie this to Bush since you are screaming Felony. WHat is the crime, what is your eveidence linking Bush. Who has been injured?
You need to look a little deeper. Thats one of your issues, you see something that on its face screams voter fraud and conspiracy, but when you peel back a layer or two and look at the situation at the next level, you see that you might be getting all worked up over nothing. And in fact, the situation MAY just be the opposite of your conclusion. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by NYNJUK
Sounds like a politician...again fuck the republicans... |
More stunning analysis...the doctors at the institution must be so proud :) |
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| Crazytree |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
The only people denying self determination to Arabs are ARAB LEADERS !! |
I love this brainless talking point. And who bankrolls, provides foreign/military aid to and supports the majority of these leaders? The US gov't. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree
I love this brainless talking point. And who bankrolls, provides foreign/military aid to and supports the majority of these leaders? The US gov't. |
Wow...we bankroll and finance them all???? hmmmmm don't think so. Do we give foreign aid, sure, is it enough to 'bankroll' them. Certainly not. Israel clearly gets the most aid and they are a democracy. Do we essentially support more moderate governments in the region, sure. But please explain how that legitimizes the oppression of their own people?? Do you deny that this is the case throughout the Arab world??? Except a few countries???
I know this is useless, but,....please explain. |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
- How many were false???
- Why were only 5 examples listed?
- Who verified the information listed?
- How many of those supposedly denied the right to vote actually tried to vote?
- WHo would they have voted for anyway, and how can you confirm this information??
- Had nothing been done, there is the possibility that a greater percentage of the 57,000 might have been able to vote illegally anyway. This entire process MAY HAVE DECREASED voter fraud on that point alone.
- Please tie this to Bush since you are screaming Felony. WHat is the crime, what is your eveidence linking Bush. Who has been injured?
You need to look a little deeper. Thats one of your issues, you see something that on its face screams voter fraud and conspiracy, but when you peel back a layer or two and look at the situation at the next level, you see that you might be getting all worked up over nothing. And in fact, the situation MAY just be the opposite of your conclusion. |
there are more than 5 listed, for instance the list has others that dont even have an arrest date. this is just one page of the list.
Schlenther v. Florida Department of State (June 1998) rules Florida can't prevent a felon in Connecticut who kept his voting rights in Connecticut from voting in Florida. But Florida insisted felons, granted rights, receive clemency from Governor Jeb Bush, possibly needing two years. NAACP filed suit arguing Florida violated of the Voting Rights Act of 1964 and the US Constitution, while others argued Florida violated the National Voter Registration Act of 1993.
ok, first off I give you 5 on the list, and you say fine, but those 5 counts of felony are insignificant for you and you want more. the above list is a list of African American soldiers that were also scrubbed in florida.
The RNC mailed these voters letters in envelopes marked, “Do not forward”, to be returned to the sender. These letters were mailed to servicemen and women, some stationed overseas, to their US home addresses. The letters then returned to the Bush-Cheney campaign as “undeliverable.”
The lists of soldiers of “undeliverable” letters were transmitted from state headquarters, in this case Florida, to the RNC in Washington. The party could then challenge the voters’ registration and thereby prevent their absentee ballots being counted.
One target list was comprised exclusively of voters registered at the Jacksonville, Florida, Naval Air Station. Jacksonville is third largest naval installation in the US, best known as home of the Blue Angels fighting squandron.
so how many felony acts do I have to come up with since 5 is not enough for you? thousands? tens of thousands? enough to show that john kerry, bushes cousin would have won the election?
FatesWebb |
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| Crazytree |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Wow...we bankroll and finance them all???? hmmmmm don't think so. Do we give foreign aid, sure, is it enough to 'bankroll' them. Certainly not. Israel clearly gets the most aid and they are a democracy. Do we essentially support more moderate governments in the region, sure. But please explain how that legitimizes the oppression of their own people?? Do you deny that this is the case throughout the Arab world??? Except a few countries???
I know this is useless, but,....please explain. |
I'm glad we both recognize the futility of an explanation as to why giving money to an oppressive gov't is "wrong" or otherwise enables said gov't to continue their oppresive regime.
But then people like you were giving blank checks to Saddam Hussein. That worked out real well, didn't it? :rolleyes: |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree
I'm glad we both recognize the futility of an explanation as to why giving money to an oppressive gov't is "wrong" or otherwise enables said gov't to continue their oppresive regime.
But then people like you were giving blank checks to Saddam Hussein. That worked out real well, didn't it? :rolleyes: |
The Saddam myth has been debunked...sorry, it doesn't apply.
But I am glad we agree that Arab leaders are the main oppressors of Arab people. The amount of money given to Eqypt/Jordan ect is not that great. However, I don't believe we give any money to Syria. Yet they still oppress their people....hmmm |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
there are more than 5 listed, for instance the list has others that dont even have an arrest date. this is just one page of the list.
Schlenther v. Florida Department of State (June 1998) rules Florida can't prevent a felon in Connecticut who kept his voting rights in Connecticut from voting in Florida. But Florida insisted felons, granted rights, receive clemency from Governor Jeb Bush, possibly needing two years. NAACP filed suit arguing Florida violated of the Voting Rights Act of 1964 and the US Constitution, while others argued Florida violated the National Voter Registration Act of 1993.
ok, first off I give you 5 on the list, and you say fine, but those 5 counts of felony are insignificant for you and you want more. the above list is a list of African American soldiers that were also scrubbed in florida.
The RNC mailed these voters letters in envelopes marked, “Do not forward”, to be returned to the sender. These letters were mailed to servicemen and women, some stationed overseas, to their US home addresses. The letters then returned to the Bush-Cheney campaign as “undeliverable.”
The lists of soldiers of “undeliverable” letters were transmitted from state headquarters, in this case Florida, to the RNC in Washington. The party could then challenge the voters’ registration and thereby prevent their absentee ballots being counted.
One target list was comprised exclusively of voters registered at the Jacksonville, Florida, Naval Air Station. Jacksonville is third largest naval installation in the US, best known as home of the Blue Angels fighting squandron.
so how many felony acts do I have to come up with since 5 is not enough for you? thousands? tens of thousands? enough to show that john kerry, bushes cousin would have won the election?
FatesWebb |
How many can you make up?? Is there any proof of this, or are you just making this up as you go along?? I see nothing but your conspiratorial ramblings, no actual proof of anything.
You haven't tied any of your so called felonies to Bush at all....This reads more like the weekly world news, or something found on the left wing blogosphere. |
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| iatebethO |
NCMoron, back at it again.
Hey Asshole, you asked for a list and thought it would be funny. FW provided a list. You are such a fucking liar. Why anyone argues with such a dishonest piece of shit I don't understand. But I always enjoy them shitting all over you Mikey.
Oh, and Mikey, before you try to name call me - fuck off loser, I don't care. Idiot!! |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by iatebethO
NCMoron, back at it again.
Hey Asshole, you asked for a list and thought it would be funny. FW provided a list. You are such a fucking liar. Why anyone argues with such a dishonest piece of shit I don't understand. But I always enjoy them shitting all over you Mikey.
Oh, and Mikey, before you try to name call me - fuck off loser, I don't care. Idiot!! |
What stunning analysis by Mr Irrelevant...all this time away, and you couldn't think of anything relevant to post. I guess that game of hopscotch is just to demanding on your brain.
Have a nice day :) |
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| FatesWebb |
denailist, but lets even twist the knife further in mikes ass..
Originally we thought it was 57,000 people that were purged. Now I got the info from DBT that there were 94,000 people in this list. 91,000 were innocent. If those people have voted, Al Gore would most likely have received the 537 votes that he needed to win. What makes the story so sad and rotten is that the Secretary of State of Florida, Katherine Harris, has agreed that innocent people were removed, but they dragged their feet and have used this same list in this election.
According to the settlement from the NAACP lawsuit, the State has to revise the list and return the voting rights to the innocent ones. But they are going to wait until after the elections to do so.
Jeb Bush arranged to steal the election in 2000 for his brother, and is keeping it stolen for his own re-election as of nov 2002. Election 2000 is not old news; its what happening on Tuesday. On top of that, computerized voting - its a real nightmare. Machines continue to fail in black districts in Florida. It happened in September and we will see it on Tuesday. All the problems of 2000, but its going to be worse. -What is surprising is that the main media channels are not talking about this.
and we have not even began to look at the other states besides florida, or the 2004 election.
so mike why did they settle the lawsuit, and admit to remove the list, if the list of 91,00 innocent voters were not truly fraudulent. |
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| iatebethO |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
What stunning analysis by Mr Irrelevant...all this time away, and you couldn't think of anything relevant to post. I guess that game of hopscotch is just to demanding on your brain.
Have a nice day :) |
Mr Irrelevant? Maybe you misunderstood the subject at hand. When I post I'm commenting on your character. The fact that you never accept documented proof that you are wrong. Therefore, you are either dishonest or an idiot. And my calling you a fucking liar is pertinent to the subject at hand, your credibility.
If you would like to make a real statement, do something your patron saint of stupidity (that would be Bush) won't do, accept reality and admit your mistakes. If you do start accepting reality then my comments would be irrelevant, and I would be happy to stop.
Until then - arrivederci, cocksucker! |
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| incoherent |
Let's look in on a random NCMike debate since he cut and ran from all other debates where I challenged him to "prove" his claims:
http://www.sternfannetwork.com/foru...806#post3781806
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
The Saddam myth has been debunked...sorry, it doesn't apply. |
1) Prove it.
(Typical NCMike06- vague dismissal of truth with zero supporting evidence.)
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
But I am glad we agree that Arab leaders are the main oppressors of Arab people. |
2) And Christian leaders are the main oppressors of Christian people. So what? What's your point? |
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| Crazytree |
| man FW just schooled NCMike again... this time in XLS format. :D |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
denailist, but lets even twist the knife further in mikes ass..
Originally we thought it was 57,000 people that were purged. Now I got the info from DBT that there were 94,000 people in this list. 91,000 were innocent. If those people have voted, Al Gore would most likely have received the 537 votes that he needed to win. What makes the story so sad and rotten is that the Secretary of State of Florida, Katherine Harris, has agreed that innocent people were removed, but they dragged their feet and have used this same list in this election.
According to the settlement from the NAACP lawsuit, the State has to revise the list and return the voting rights to the innocent ones. But they are going to wait until after the elections to do so.
Jeb Bush arranged to steal the election in 2000 for his brother, and is keeping it stolen for his own re-election as of nov 2002. Election 2000 is not old news; its what happening on Tuesday. On top of that, computerized voting - its a real nightmare. Machines continue to fail in black districts in Florida. It happened in September and we will see it on Tuesday. All the problems of 2000, but its going to be worse. -What is surprising is that the main media channels are not talking about this.
and we have not even began to look at the other states besides florida, or the 2004 election.
so mike why did they settle the lawsuit, and admit to remove the list, if the list of 91,00 innocent voters were not truly fraudulent. |
And we are supposed to take your word for it, I'm sure. Do you have ANY proof of this. An excel list of names is not proof..its just a list.
Maybe this is what passes off in the conspiracy wacko world as proof. But in the realworld we expect a little more than just you saying it. Call me skeptical but, you don't have the best track record.
Not to mention that I would like to see how, even if any of this is true, that you can devine that they would have voted for Gore.
And I still have not see ANYTHING that ties this to Bush.......ANYTHING. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by iatebethO
Mr Irrelevant? Maybe you misunderstood the subject at hand. When I post I'm commenting on your character. The fact that you never accept documented proof that you are wrong. Therefore, you are either dishonest or an idiot. And my calling you a fucking liar is pertinent to the subject at hand, your credibility.
If you would like to make a real statement, do something your patron saint of stupidity (that would be Bush) won't do, accept reality and admit your mistakes. If you do start accepting reality then my comments would be irrelevant, and I would be happy to stop.
Until then - arrivederci, cocksucker! |
An Excel list of names is not 'documented proof' of anything other than it is just a list of names. Only an idiot would assume that any list posted without any other proof is valid and representative of the issue.
How is it that you will believe anything anyone posts regardless of not having any supporting evidence?? That, my friend is the definition of an idiot. |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Yes and Muslims are well aware of all evil things done by America. We understand, thanks for the update.
How about things that the religion of peace have done? Do you have a ready collection of those facts? Do they shame you?
The wars they have created in history? The conquests for "Allah"? Whatever happened to the Assyrians? The Egyptians? I wonder all through N. Africa do Arabs come from N. Africa? I'll have to check on that...There is Arabia somewhere.
The Sudan, Muslims are having fun there. I never hear complaints though, it's not like Lebanon being attacked and a few civilians killed. Where are all the pictures of the tens of thousands killed in the Sudan? I can't seem to find a thread devoted to them, no on-line scrapbook. You don't have evil Jews killing them Muslims in the Sudan, maybe thats why we can't be bombarded with images of children bombed. What purpose would it serve? None, there is no political or mental games with pictures of Muslims killing Muslims in the Sudan. No value.
No pictures of Somalia dead.
I had to dig up a stoning video. No complaints over that behavior in the Muslim world. No scrapbooks of dead to those victims, nothing to be gained by it. Only dead Muslims killed by non-Muslims is what we get to view. Thats worth something. That carries political advantage and stirs up hatred taught and learned by Muslims. But that has served it's purpose. We went to war against Serbia because of pictures of dead Muslims. Stopped destruction of a Terror group because of pictures of dead Muslims. |
nigga pleez. You mean to tell me that Islam is the ONLY religion responsible for Wars?!?!? It is a simple fact that more were killed in the name of Christ than in the name of Islam. This is proveable and is well documented. To deny this fact is folly.
Do you know who the most religious people are usually? They are the poorest and most downtrodden of society, which is why a "Bible Belt" exists in our country. Overlay demographics on the bible belt and it's abundantly clear. To state otherwise is disingenuous.
By the way, where are all the images of 17,500 Palestinian women and children that were slaughtered by Israel and the Maronite Christian Phalangists in Southern Beirut in the 80's. Where are the thousands of people that were summarily executed by Israeli soldiers throughout their occupation of Palestinian lands? Even we are so innocent and pure that our soldiers retained the height of morality in Iraq, right?
Relativism is a bitch, aint it? |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
The Saddam myth has been debunked...sorry, it doesn't apply.
But I am glad we agree that Arab leaders are the main oppressors of Arab people. The amount of money given to Eqypt/Jordan ect is not that great. However, I don't believe we give any money to Syria. Yet they still oppress their people....hmmm |
Egypt is one of the largest recipients of US aid every year, who along with Jordan, signed a peace treaty with Israel.
Aside from cold, hard cash, we have GIVEN tons of aid in the form of weapons sales, priceless training and joint excercises, and personal security personell to Saudi Arabia, most of the "friendly" gulf states, Egypt, and Jordan.
Syria has always been a proxy of Russia.
How about looking at how many coups we helped along or even started in the name of preserving or creating regimes friendly to the US's energy needs?
We overthrew the democratically elected leaders of Iran because of their plans to nationalize their oil production and their friendliness with their neighbor USSR. We aided multiple coup attempts by Saddam for the better part of 25 years, with contracts to BP, Shell, and Texaco coming in right after his rise to power.
You deluded fuck, you really shouldn't comment when you trulyh have absolutely no clue except what's put in your trough. It's because of you and your ilk that we are the most hated we've ever been and for the first time in our history, we ARE the bad guys. |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
An Excel list of names is not 'documented proof' of anything other than it is just a list of names. Only an idiot would assume that any list posted without any other proof is valid and representative of the issue.
How is it that you will believe anything anyone posts regardless of not having any supporting evidence?? That, my friend is the definition of an idiot. |
only an idiot like cbsnews?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002...ain520754.shtml
the naacp? and the aclu
http://www.aclu.org/votingrights/er...rs20020903.html
Should we continue on mike, we can move on to the 2004 election if you wish? you still denying these even though clearly even the GOP has admitted, and agreed to remove the names from their scrub list.
FW |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
An Excel list of names is not 'documented proof' of anything other than it is just a list of names. Only an idiot would assume that any list posted without any other proof is valid and representative of the issue.
How is it that you will believe anything anyone posts regardless of not having any supporting evidence?? That, my friend is the definition of an idiot. |
Mike,
IF IT DID NOT HAPPEN THEN WHY DID THE GOP SETTLE THE SUIT WITH THE NAACP AND AGREE TO REMOVE THE 91,000 NAMES FROM THE SCRUB LIST?????
FW |
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| incoherent |
NCMike06 just got schooled! Will we see another NCMike06 apology? Not likely.
A Cut N Run? More likely.
http://www.sternfannetwork.com/foru...806#post3781806
Most likely is that NCMike will do what he does best- post right-wing web sites that don't actually rebut anything but just make distraction claims.
Let's see... |
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| FatesWebb |
no because he cannot say he is sorry, that would be admitting that GW was never really president.
he would have to change his avatar to this one.
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| FatesWebb |
here is a new avatar for him...
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| FatesWebb |
On November 2, 2004, in the State of Ohio, 239,127 votes for President of the United States were dumped, rejected, blocked, lost and left to rot uncounted.
And not just anyone's vote. Dive into the electoral dumpster and these "spoiled" votes have a very dark color indeed.
In another life, I taught statistics. And these statistics stank: the raw data tells us that if you are a Black voter, the chance of you losing your vote to technical errors in voting machinery is 900% higher than if you were a white voter.
Any guesses as to whom those African-Americans chose for president on those junked ballots? Check Ohio's racial demographics, do the numbers, and there it is: Kerry won Ohio. And that, too, is a fact. A fact that could not get reported in the USA.
But the shoplifting of those votes in Ohio was just the tip of the theft-berg. November 2, 2004 was a national ballot-box bonfire. In total, over three million votes (3,600,380 to be exact) were cast -- marked, punched, pulled -- YET NEVER COUNTED. I'm not talking about the Ukraine or Uganda. I'm talking about the United States of America "with liberty and justice for all."
Well, not "all." The nine-to-one Black-to-White ballot spoilage rate is a national statistic -- not just an Ohio trick. Last year, I flew to New Mexico to investigate the 33,981 cast but not counted ballots of that state in the 2004 race. George Bush "won" New Mexico by 5,988 votes. Or did he? I calculated that, of all the ballots rejected and "spoiled," 89% were cast by voters of color. Who won New Mexico? Kerry won -- or he would have, if they had counted the ballots.
But they didn't count them. And that was deliberate. It's in the plan. It's the program. And the program for 2008 is simple. Two million ballots were cast but not counted in the 2000 race. (Over half, 54%, were cast by African-Americans.) In 2004, the GOP kicked it up to THREE million. Get ready, these guys aim high: "four in '06" and "five in '08" looks to be their game plan.
How will they pile up five million un-voters in 2008? Let's start with the three million "disappeared" of 2004:
Step 1: "Spoiling" ballots -- 1,389,231 of them. In the vote-count game, these are called "undervotes" and "overvotes." You can recognize these lost ballots by their hanging chads, punch cards without punches (an Ohio specialty), paper ballots eaten by scanners, and touch screens that didn't know you touched them.
Step 2: Rejecting "provisional ballots" -- 1,090,729 in this pile. Voters finding themselves at the "wrong" precinct, or wrongly "scrubbed" from voter rolls get these back-of-the-bus ballots first inaugurated in 2002. In '04, provisional ballots were passed out like candy to voters in the poorest precincts. They handed them out -- then threw them away -- one million dumped in all. In Ohio, Republican Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell changed state rules, allowing him to toss out the ballots of legal voters who cast ballots in the wrong precinct although these citizens were told their vote would count after confirming their registration.
Step 3: Not counting absentee ballots -- 526,420 of them. At least, that's what we figure from official stats. But it's anyone's guess how many mailed-in votes were dumped. (However, in one case, in Palm Beach, Florida, Jeb Bush's candidate for Elections Supervisor, Theresa LaPore, counted more absentee votes than absentee ballots mailed in. Not the brightest bulb in the vote-fix biz, that Theresa.)
Step 4: Scrub'm, Purge'm, Block'm. These are the voters who never got to vote at all. This group includes those who found their registrations were never entered on the voter rolls. In Ohio, about one-fourth of those registered by Jesse Jackson's 2004 voter drive, found their registrations delayed beyond the election date or lost.
Add to this un-voter group, those who were wrongly "scrubbed" from registries as "felons." For example, there was Bernice Kines, purged in Florida in 2004 because she was convicted of a felony on July 31, 2009. I repeat: 2009. There was something especially odd about the Ohio felon purge: ex-cons are ALLOWED to vote in that state, Mr. Blackwell.
How many lost their chance to vote by scrubbing, purging and blocking? That's anyone's guess, but one million would not be an unfair estimate -- and that's not included in the 3.6 million tally of ballots uncounted.
Was it deliberate? Oh, my God, yes. I'd like you to take a look at the "caging" lists the Republican National Committee concocted to challenge voters with "suspect" addresses. It included page after page of African-American soldiers, like one Randall Prausa, shipped overseas. Mission accomplished, Mr. President?
And there's some new tricks for these old dogs. For 2006 and 2008, the GOP is pushing new Voter ID requirements. Your signature won't be good enough anymore.
What's wrong with the new ID laws? This: In the 2004 election, 300,000 voters were turned away from the polls for "wrong" ID. For example, in the "Little Texas" counties in New Mexico, if your voter registration included a middle initial but your driver's license had none, you were kicked out of the polling station. Funny, but they only seemed to ask Hispanic voters. We should see the number of voters rejected for ID quintuple by 2008, based on the new "voting reform" laws recently passed in several states.
Also, coming to a polling station near you: more caging lists, scrub lists, ID challenge lists and more. Exactly why do you think they are compiling those "War on Terror" and War on Immigration databases? Behind the 2000 felon purge lists and behind the 2004 caging lists were databases from the same companies that now have those homeland security contracts. Are they saving us from Osama -- or from Democrats? - http://www.buzzflash.com/contributo...6/con06219.html |
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| FatesWebb |
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| FatesWebb |
Voting Machine Controversy
by Julie Carr Smyth
COLUMBUS - The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."
The Aug. 14 letter from Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold Inc. - who has become active in the re-election effort of President Bush - prompted Democrats this week to question the propriety of allowing O'Dell's company to calculate votes in the 2004 presidential election.
O'Dell attended a strategy pow-wow with wealthy Bush benefactors - known as Rangers and Pioneers - at the president's Crawford, Texas, ranch earlier this month. The next week, he penned invitations to a $1,000-a-plate fund-raiser to benefit the Ohio Republican Party's federal campaign fund - partially benefiting Bush - at his mansion in the Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington.
The letter went out the day before Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, also a Republican, was set to qualify Diebold as one of three firms eligible to sell upgraded electronic voting machines to Ohio counties in time for the 2004 election.
Blackwell's announcement is still in limbo because of a court challenge over the fairness of the selection process by a disqualified bidder, Sequoia Voting Systems.
In his invitation letter, O'Dell asked guests to consider donating or raising up to $10,000 each for the federal account that the state GOP will use to help Bush and other federal candidates - money that legislative Democratic leaders charged could come back to benefit Blackwell.
They urged Blackwell to remove Diebold from the field of voting-machine companies eligible to sell to Ohio counties.
This is the second such request in as many months. State Sen. Jeff Jacobson, a Dayton-area Republican, asked Blackwell in July to disqualify Diebold after security concerns arose over its equipment.
"Ordinary Ohioans may infer that Blackwell's office is looking past Diebold's security issues because its CEO is seeking $10,000 donations for Blackwell's party - donations that could be made with statewide elected officials right there in the same room," said Senate Democratic Leader Greg DiDonato.
Diebold spokeswoman Michelle Griggy said O'Dell - who was unavailable to comment personally - has held fund-raisers in his home for many causes, including the Columbus Zoo, Op era Columbus, Catholic Social Services and Ohio State University.
Ohio GOP spokesman Jason Mauk said the party approached O'Dell about hosting the event at his home, the historic Cotswold Manor, and not the other way around. Mauk said that under federal campaign finance rules, the party cannot use any money from its federal account for state- level candidates.
"To think that Diebold is somehow tainted because they have a couple folks on their board who support the president is just unfair," Mauk said.
Griggy said in an e-mail statement that Diebold could not comment on the political contributions of individual company employees.
Blackwell said Diebold is not the only company with political connections - noting that lobbyists for voting-machine makers read like a who's who of Columbus' powerful and politically connected.
"Let me put it to you this way: If there was one person uniquely involved in the political process, that might be troubling," he said. "But there's no one that hasn't used every legitimate avenue and bit of leverage that they could legally use to get their product looked at. Believe me, if there is a political lever to be pulled, all of them have pulled it."
Blackwell said he stands by the process used for selecting voting machine vendors as fair, thorough and impartial.
As of yesterday, however, that determination lay with Ohio Court of Claims Judge Fred Shoemaker.
He heard closing arguments yesterday over whether Sequoia was unfairly eliminated by Blackwell midway through the final phase of negotiations.
Shoemaker extended a temporary restraining order in the case for 14 days, but said he hopes to issue his opinion sooner than that. |
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| FatesWebb |
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| FatesWebb |
NOT TO MENTION
that is serious voter fraud too!! :) |
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| iatebethO |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
An Excel list of names is not 'documented proof' of anything other than it is just a list of names. Only an idiot would assume that any list posted without any other proof is valid and representative of the issue.
How is it that you will believe anything anyone posts regardless of not having any supporting evidence?? That, my friend is the definition of an idiot. |
Hey Mikey, did you happen to see the number of posts that SHIT ALL OVER you again.
Here Mikey, try reading the truth for a while.
http://archive.salon.com/politics/f...file/index.html
Imagine that, Texas was involved in taking legal voters off the Florida voter list. What did Texas have in common with Florida? Each state had a Republican Governor named Bush.
Like I said before - arrivederci, cocksucker! |
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| Crazytree |
| FW has broken the SFN Politics record for 8 consecutive replies... the old record was 5 by Abba. |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree
FW has broken the SFN Politics record for 8 consecutive replies... the old record was 5 by Abba. |
I'd hate to see FW on Coke,
:(
;)
I need a nap(I actually read all that, what year is it now?) |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
nigga pleez. You mean to tell me that Islam is the ONLY religion responsible for Wars?!?!? It is a simple fact that more were killed in the name of Christ than in the name of Islam. This is proveable and is well documented. To deny this fact is folly.
Do you know who the most religious people are usually? They are the poorest and most downtrodden of society, which is why a "Bible Belt" exists in our country. Overlay demographics on the bible belt and it's abundantly clear. To state otherwise is disingenuous.
By the way, where are all the images of 17,500 Palestinian women and children that were slaughtered by Israel and the Maronite Christian Phalangists in Southern Beirut in the 80's. Where are the thousands of people that were summarily executed by Israeli soldiers throughout their occupation of Palestinian lands? Even we are so innocent and pure that our soldiers retained the height of morality in Iraq, right?
Relativism is a bitch, aint it? |
Then prove that Christians have killed more, where is this well documented at?
How many Assyrians were killed, Egyptians, Africans, Persians, Serbians, Jews, Indians, Russians, Poles, Italians, Spanish, French, Europeans in general? Over the last 1400 years because of Islam?
How many Muslims during WWII joined the SS? Bosnians? The Mufti of Jerusalam, didn't he help recruit for Hitler?
As you said all of this is very well documented and you have it, please provide it. |
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| Crazytree |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Then prove that Christians have killed more, where is this well documented at?
How many Assyrians were killed, Egyptians, Africans, Persians, Serbians, Jews, Indians, Russians, Poles, Italians, Spanish, French, Europeans in general? Over the last 1400 years because of Islam?
How many Muslims during WWII joined the SS? Bosnians? The Mufti of Jerusalam, didn't he help recruit for Hitler?
As you said all of this is very well documented and you have it, please provide it. |
Don't forget Jewish Nazi terrorists. |
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| Stonewall |
I'm not forgeting. Perhaps after it's proven Christians have killed more than it'll be proven that Jews have killed more than Muslims... stay tuned. Jews will probably be "proven" to have killed twice as much than either Christians or Muslims. Didn't they used to slaughter children and drink their blood? I'm sure millions and millions of those. Just watch, the Muslims will tell us. |
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| Crazytree |
| I think you've been drinking some christian blood the way your posts have been unfolding. |
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| NCMike06 |
Neither of these articles even addresses all the nonsense that you claimed above ...quoting from your article:
| Quote: It is important to note, however, that the important issue of ex-felon reenfranchisement was not addressed in the proposed settlement. The ACLU will continue to work with community-based organizations and state legislatures to restore the right to vote to individuals who were once incarcerated. |
So where is the actual proof of all the numbers that you have provided above. THose numbers certainly ARE NOT represented in the 2 links you provided.
AND here are the details of the settlement :
| Quote: Today's proposed settlement provides for monitoring to ensure the effective implementation and enforcement of its various provisions. It awaits court approval and it must also be precleared under the Voting Rights Act, so the settlement will not be in place in time for the November elections. We urge state officials to do everything they can do ensure that those elections do not result in any further violations of voting rights. are conducted in a fair and manner. |
No where is Bush mentioned as at fault, accused of any wrongdoing, charged with any wrong doing or anything similar. Please show me all the Bush felonies that you have been talking about, and or how any of this is tied to Bush????
If you have to reach for articles such as these, which do not address the charges that you made above...it is clear that you do not have proof of anything. As usual. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Egypt is one of the largest recipients of US aid every year, who along with Jordan, signed a peace treaty with Israel.
Aside from cold, hard cash, we have GIVEN tons of aid in the form of weapons sales, priceless training and joint excercises, and personal security personell to Saudi Arabia, most of the "friendly" gulf states, Egypt, and Jordan.
Syria has always been a proxy of Russia.
How about looking at how many coups we helped along or even started in the name of preserving or creating regimes friendly to the US's energy needs?
We overthrew the democratically elected leaders of Iran because of their plans to nationalize their oil production and their friendliness with their neighbor USSR. We aided multiple coup attempts by Saddam for the better part of 25 years, with contracts to BP, Shell, and Texaco coming in right after his rise to power.
You deluded fuck, you really shouldn't comment when you trulyh have absolutely no clue except what's put in your trough. It's because of you and your ilk that we are the most hated we've ever been and for the first time in our history, we ARE the bad guys. |
Why cant you just deal with the fact that Arab leaders are those MOST responsible for oppressing ARAB people. No excuses, no bullshit...just deal with that fact. You are a terrorist apologist, and an Islamic dictator apologist.
The bad guys are the dictators who deny any and all rights to women, kill their own people without question or motive, deny basic rights to their own people, and hold onto power by fear and force....i.e. tha ARAB world. Deal with it, dickhead. |
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Check out NCMike06 COMPLETELY IGNORING the posts that completely crush his arguments and making only selective replies.
NCMike06 might be less of a joke if he put as much effort into making credible arguments and actually answering questions as he puts into finding derisive little anti-Gore picutres.
But no, NCMike has cut and run from the real discusion, even as he pops up to pretend he won (kinda like his idol Bush has to pretend he won the election. THough at least in Bush's case we may never knwo who won the election. In this case it is abundantly clear NCMik06 lost BECAUSE by hiding from posts he conceeds the debate).
Just like NCMike is still hiding from other debates around SFN, like this:
http://www.sternfannetwork.com/foru...806#post3781806 |
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Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Why cant you just deal with the fact that Arab leaders are those MOST responsible for oppressing ARAB people. No excuses, no bullshit...just deal with that fact. You are a terrorist apologist, and an Islamic dictator apologist. |
1) NCMIke06, why can't YOU just deal with the fact that Christian leaders are those MOST responsible for oppressing CHRISTIAN people? "No excuses, no bullshit...just deal with that fact. You are a terrorist apologist, and a Christian dictator apologist."
2) This includes a certain Christian dictator named Bush who ascended to the White House in an election that half the Supreme Court concluded that we do not know the winner of.
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
The bad guys are the dictators who deny any and all rights to women, kill their own people without question or motive, deny basic rights to their own people, and hold onto power by fear and force....i.e. tha ARAB world. Deal with it, dickhead. |
3) WRONG! The bad guys are those kinds of dictators ANYWHERE- CHrstian world OR Muslim world or any other world. How is it you fail to see that a rights-denying dictator is a problem regardless of faith or ethnicity?
4) I wonder why you would single out "Arabs" as an ethnicity over any other ethnicity of dictator. Could it be .....RACISM?
How would you feel if someone posted this:
"The bad guys are the dictators who deny any and all rights to women, kill their own people without question or motive, deny basic rights to their own people, and hold onto power by fear and force....i.e. the world of WHITE PEOPLE/CAUCASIANS. Deal with it, dickhead."
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
The bad guys are the dictators who deny any and all rights to women... |
5) Like Bush and the Christian fundamentalists in Congress attempting to remove women's privacy rights, equal protection rights, rights to birth control, rights to an abortion, etc?
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
The bad guys are the dictators who... kill their own people without question or motive |
6) You mean like the history of the Christian faith, from Rome to the Crusades to the Inquisition to Colonization to Hitler to Rwanda to Bush's "Crusade"?
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
The bad guys are the dictators who... and hold onto power by fear and force.... |
7) ie the Bush adminstration. Thank you. A better description of Bush administration I have never heard. Bush does INDEED hold onto power by fear (Agree with him or you are with the terrorists) and force (you can't elect someone else during Bush's unnecessary use of force in Iraq because that would be changing horses midstream during a war)
8) I wonder if NCMIke will fail to answer this as he fails to answer other times when his nose has been rubbed in his own cowflops:
http://www.sternfannetwork.com/foru...806#post3781806 |
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