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Americans don't believe the FatesWebb crowd
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| Americans don't believe the FatesWebb crowd
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| clonetrooper |
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10...bush/index.html
Poll: Most feel civil liberties not harmed by war on terror
POSTED: 10:43 a.m. EDT, October 26, 2006
(CNN) -- Most Americans do not believe the Bush administration has gone too far in restricting civil liberties as part of the war on terror, a new CNN poll released Thursday suggests.
While 39 percent of the 1,013 poll respondents said the Bush administration has gone too far, 34 percent said they believe the administration has been about right on the restrictions, according to the Opinion Research Corp. survey. Another 25 percent said the administration has not gone far enough.
Asked whether Bush has more power than any other U.S. president, 65 percent of poll respondents said no. Thirty-three percent said yes. Of those who said yes, a quarter said that was bad for the country. (View poll results)
Seventy-two percent of poll respondents said they believe the size of the federal government has increased in the past four years. Twenty percent believe it has decreased, and 8 percent had no opinion.
Fifty-eight percent of poll respondents said they would not want their son or daughter to grow up to be president. Fifty-six percent, however, said they would want their child to grow up to be a member of Congress.
The last three questions were asked of a half sample, or about 507 people.
The telephone poll was conducted October 20-22. The sampling error was plus or minus 3 percentage points for questions asked of the full sample and plus or minus 4.5 percentage points for questions asked of the half sample. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
| great...the proganda machine working against us in our own country has convinced people of this being an inside job..so happy there are people here and live here who hate us so..fattes why do you hate america so much. would you be happy if we were more like europe ? |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
great...the proganda machine working against us in our own country has convinced people of this being an inside job..so happy there are people here and live here who hate us so..fattes why do you hate america so much. would you be happy if we were more like europe ? |
So, I hate america because I demand the truth in 3,000 americans murders? |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
So, I hate america because I demand the truth in 3,000 americans murders? |
YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD THE TRUTH . YOU JUST DON'T ACCEPT IT . SO YOU SPREAD LIES AND EVENTUALLY PEOPLE START TO BELIEVE BECAUSE THEY HAVE HEARD IT SO MUCH. |
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| shocktheballs |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
SO YOU SPREAD LIES AND EVENTUALLY PEOPLE START TO BELIEVE BECAUSE THEY HAVE HEARD IT SO MUCH. |
"There are WMD's in Iraq."
"Saddam was working with Al-Qaeda."
Those are lies we have heard repeatedly for 4 years now. So, I guess you are correct that if a lie is repeated enough, people will believe it. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by shocktheballs
"There are WMD's in Iraq."
"Saddam was working with Al-Qaeda."
Those are lies we have heard repeatedly for 4 years now. So, I guess you are correct that if a lie is repeated enough, people will believe it. |
DEMS TOLD US SINCE 98 OTHER COUNTRYS TOLD US EVERYONE THOUGHT IT EVEN BEFORE BUSH. |
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| shocktheballs |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
DEMS TOLD US SINCE 98 OTHER COUNTRYS TOLD US EVERYONE THOUGHT IT EVEN BEFORE BUSH. |
Thank you for proving my point.
Oh, and next time, try some punctuation so people can tell where your sentences end. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by shocktheballs
Thank you for proving my point.
Oh, and next time, try some punctuation so people can tell where your sentences end. |
didn't know you made a point ..what do you think about prominate dems who said saddam had WMDs before bush was president ? |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD THE TRUTH . YOU JUST DON'T ACCEPT IT . SO YOU SPREAD LIES AND EVENTUALLY PEOPLE START TO BELIEVE BECAUSE THEY HAVE HEARD IT SO MUCH. |
but what I was told is impossible in many ways it cannot be the truth, the truth is never impossible. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
but what I was told is impossible in many ways it cannot be the truth, the truth is never impossible. |
well it is the truth...what happened to the passengers from the plane that hit the pentagon, the one conservative author barbara olsen was on...what happened to the people on that plane ? |
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| FatesWebb |
what is your point? it doesnt make the shit possible, they "have dna" for hijacklers that are still alive? impossible!!! the wtc buildings collapsed in 9 and 12 seconds? impossible. so what if barbara olsen is dead or alive, as a matter of fact she has been reported as being witnessed as alive in europe since then, so...... what is your point? that people were on the planes so it is possible?
your argument is weak... |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
what is your point? it doesnt make the shit possible, they "have dna" for hijacklers that are still alive? impossible!!! the wtc buildings collapsed in 9 and 12 seconds? impossible. so what if barbara olsen is dead or alive, as a matter of fact she has been reported as being witnessed as alive in europe since then, so...... what is your point? that people were on the planes so it is possible?
your argument is weak... |
what happened to the people from that plane that went into the pentagon...and people say they have seen elvis ...if a missle hit the pentagon and not a jumbo jet ..where are the passengers ? |
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| Halcyon |
You guys do realize that all polls are skewed to show anything you want right?
Every survey is done by a company with an Agenda, I don't care what you or they say, they do
And every survey can be conducted and skewed to promote anything you want it to say based on posturing the questions and asking the right group of people. |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
what happened to the people from that plane that went into the pentagon...and people say they have seen elvis ...if a missle hit the pentagon and not a jumbo jet ..where are the passengers ? |
they were mostly Army/Navy/government contractors/defense industry
Why does it matter what happened to them, as a matter of fact so what if the plane did hit the pentagon, that doenst make the impossible possible. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
they were mostly Army/Navy/government contractors/defense industry
Why does it matter what happened to them, as a matter of fact so what if the plane did hit the pentagon, that doenst make the impossible possible. |
thats not true ...what happened to them..if it was a missle that hit the pentagon. where are they today ??????? thats key if you wanna prove it wasn't a passenger plane that hit the pentagon
here is some info i found
mong the 54 non-hijacking passengers were:
* Barbara Olson, American television commentator for CNN (b. 1955). Olson was en route to a taping of Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher.
* Three 11-year-old schoolchildren (Bernard Brown, Asia Cottom, and Rodney Dickens) embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.
* Their chaperones and NGS staff members Sarah Clark, 65, James Debeuneure, 58, Ann Judge, 45, Hilda Taylor and Joe Ferguson.
* Two more children, sisters aged 8 and 3.
* Bryan C. Jack, budget analyst/director of the programming and fiscal economics division, Defense Department. He worked at the Pentagon at the time of the attacks.
* Mari-Rae Sopper, 35, was the women's gymnastics coach at UC Santa Barbara. Sopper was hired as coach less than two weeks before. She graduated from Iowa State in 1988 and received a master's in athletic administration from North Texas in 1993. Three years later, she graduated from the University of Denver College of Law.
where are these people today ?????? |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
thats not true ...what happened to them..if it was a missle that hit the pentagon. where are they today ??????? thats key if you wanna prove it wasn't a passenger plane that hit the pentagon
here is some info i found
mong the 54 non-hijacking passengers were:
* Barbara Olson, American television commentator for CNN (b. 1955). Olson was en route to a taping of Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher.
* Three 11-year-old schoolchildren (Bernard Brown, Asia Cottom, and Rodney Dickens) embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.
* Their chaperones and NGS staff members Sarah Clark, 65, James Debeuneure, 58, Ann Judge, 45, Hilda Taylor and Joe Ferguson.
* Two more children, sisters aged 8 and 3.
* Bryan C. Jack, budget analyst/director of the programming and fiscal economics division, Defense Department. He worked at the Pentagon at the time of the attacks.
* Mari-Rae Sopper, 35, was the women's gymnastics coach at UC Santa Barbara. Sopper was hired as coach less than two weeks before. She graduated from Iowa State in 1988 and received a master's in athletic administration from North Texas in 1993. Three years later, she graduated from the University of Denver College of Law.
where are these people today ?????? |
Barbara was the wife of a US senator, the school children were connected by NatGeo, which bernard browns father worked at the pentagon. thier chapparones as well connected by the kids to the pentagon, YOU LISTED byran jacks link to the pentagon.
LITERALLY ALL BUT ONE OF THE PASSENGERS CAN BE LINKED TO DEFENSE, AND SUCH. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
Barbara was the wife of a US senator, the school children were connected by NatGeo, which bernard browns father worked at the pentagon. thier chapparones as well connected by the kids to the pentagon, YOU LISTED byran jacks link to the pentagon.
LITERALLY ALL BUT ONE OF THE PASSENGERS CAN BE LINKED TO DEFENSE, AND SUCH. |
and that means what...where are they ? if a missle hit the pentagon ..where are they ....what happened to their plane ... |
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| shocktheballs |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
and that means what...where are they ? if a missle hit the pentagon ..where are they ....what happened to their plane ... |
I doubt that we will ever know what happened at the pentagon. I find it tough to believe that a plane could fly over a highway, during rush hour, and not hit any vehicles. Considering how low it hit the Pentagon, how likely is it to have missed the traffic? I'm still waiting for pictures of plane debris from the Pentagon to be released. As for what happened to the passengers, that is a question that can't be answered.
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe any of the conspiracy theories. But I do think that a missile was more likely what hit the Pentagon than a plane. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the hijacked plane intended for the Pentagon was shot down before it reached it's target. |
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| Stickman |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
what happened to the people from that plane that went into the pentagon...and people say they have seen elvis ...if a missle hit the pentagon and not a jumbo jet ..where are the passengers ? |
First, why would you expect Fates or any other citizen to know? Maybe their throats were slit in some military hangar. Just because the answer isn't immediately available, it doesn't negate the questions about the lack of evidence at the Pentagon, the Air Force stand down, and Hani Hanjour's piloting skills. |
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| Ironpirate |
| greatest cover up ever....ever :p |
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| Stickman |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
greatest cover up ever....ever :p |
No, it's a terrible cover up, a bungled false flag terror attack. That's why we're investigating it only five years later. Questions were raised almost immediately. |
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| IVARR |
the level of ignorance displayed here on a daily basis, is just fucking staggering.
the passengers of 4 separate commercial airline flights had there throats slit in some military hanger ?
who the fuck are you idiots ??
did you actually attend school ??
do you have jobs ??
are you adults ??
or you so god damned drug addled that it is a noteworthy moment in time when you are able to string two concurrent thoughts together ?? |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
and that means what...where are they ? if a missle hit the pentagon ..where are they ....what happened to their plane ... |
nice strawman argument, this is irrellivent, maybe the people that reported that they saw it land, and be unboarded and the passengers file into a nasa room were right? what does it really matter to the whole argument? the people could be in witness protection, or they could have been murdered. why is this even relevant?
I said it was impossible, for reasons such as hijackers that they said that they had the dna for, still being alive, and the imppossible collapse time of the 2 towers in new york, and the fact that the steel core even collapsed... where the passengers are buried, or are at if they are alive is besides the point, you see there is a big elephant in the room. You are ignoring the big elephant, and you have found a mouse in the corner, so you are asking about the mouse, and ignoring the elephant...
who gives a shit about the mouse, LOOK THERES AN ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!! |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by IVARR
the level of ignorance displayed here on a daily basis, is just fucking staggering.
the passengers of 4 separate commercial airline flights had there throats slit in some military hanger ?
who the fuck are you idiots ??
did you actually attend school ??
do you have jobs ??
are you adults ??
or you so god damned drug addled that it is a noteworthy moment in time when you are able to string two concurrent thoughts together ?? |
WHO THE FUCK SAID 4 AIRLINERS? WE WERE TALKING ABOUT FLIGHT 77 you fucking tool.
the other airliners were not even in the conversation, not only that we do not dispute that they crashed. MAYBE the plane over shanksville was shot down....
we are ONLY SPEAKING OF ONE OF SAID PLANES!!!
FW |
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| kevin49er |
Fates...
Nothing you have posted is even relevant to the original topic...
Why don't you argue the points presented to you??? Or did you even read the original post??? |
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| FatesWebb |
I dont argue the initial thread, my point on that would be that they are still waking up.... the majority of them dont know fateswebb, why not just create a poll, asking the people on sfn?
"do they think that the war on terror has harmed thier liberties as americans"
I think you will see that at least half the people on this board agree it has... but you know that is still irrellivent, what you think and the truth isnt always the same thing. the fact is, habaes corpus, and the patriot act and wiretapping have infringed on peoples rights.
why not ask the american citizens that have already been affected by it...
which reminds me I already DID SQUASH HIS ARGUMENT post 2 of this thread http://www.sternfannetwork.com/foru...047#post4814047 lists 13 links to different people that have been affected by the "war on terror" but something tells me that they were not asked in his poll..
also you could ask the 3000 dead soldiers, and countless other US citizens, wait you cannot ask them they are dead...
how far do you want to take this, I got more... |
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| acefree |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
DEMS TOLD US SINCE 98 OTHER COUNTRYS TOLD US EVERYONE THOUGHT IT EVEN BEFORE BUSH. |
1. lets assume they did have WMD. so what? many other countrys have WMD why arent we attackng them all?
2. the other countries only thought iraq had WMD because they believed what we told them.
3. the information supplied to congress has since been proven false. and it was also proven the admin knew it was false at the time.
4. WMD was not the reason for the war. it was only the excuse given for the war.
this is clearly proved when bush was asked numberous times 'if he knew then what he knows now would he change anything'. his answer is always "no"
i could write about 50 more points but its prolly useless. its cool u are republican and want to support the president. i too believe in many of the republican values, but what does that have to do with facts about iraq? u signed up to be a republican, u didnt sign up to be dumb. the only republicans that still buy all this junk are the uninformed ones. i can list dozens of former bush 41 and reagan foriegn policy experts and military experts who happen to disagree with bush. 95% of the republicans in congress also disagree. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by Stickman
No, it's a terrible cover up, a bungled false flag terror attack. That's why we're investigating it only five years later. Questions were raised almost immediately. |
another idiot right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=056UQpkLILQ |
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| spankysxxx |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
So, I hate america because I demand the truth in 3,000 americans murders? |
Buuuuuut, you're not really demanding TRUTH as you state it. Truth was going after the terrorists in Afganistan-what is the truth about Iraq? $600,000 to investigate truth at the WTC site and $40,000,000 to investigate the truth at the Clinton blow job site?
You're not demanding truth, you're demanding blind revenge at any cost. |
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| Halcyon |
Quote: Originally posted by acefree
1. lets assume they did have WMD. so what? many other countrys have WMD why arent we attackng them all?
2. the other countries only thought iraq had WMD because they believed what we told them.
3. the information supplied to congress has since been proven false. and it was also proven the admin knew it was false at the time.
4. WMD was not the reason for the war. it was only the excuse given for the war.
this is clearly proved when bush was asked numberous times 'if he knew then what he knows now would he change anything'. his answer is always "no"
i could write about 50 more points but its prolly useless. its cool u are republican and want to support the president. i too believe in many of the republican values, but what does that have to do with facts about iraq? u signed up to be a republican, u didnt sign up to be dumb. the only republicans that still buy all this junk are the uninformed ones. i can list dozens of former bush 41 and reagan foriegn policy experts and military experts who happen to disagree with bush. 95% of the republicans in congress also disagree. |
Ace,
C'mon brotha, you know there isn't a SINGLE republican that will even consider arguing any of those points with you. You know damn well they won't even attempt to argue anything factual. This is what is so frustrating. There isn't a single Bush supporter that can honestly argue anything factual without cut'n'pasteing some republican 'canned response' written to confuse you from the real facts by explaining how it's somehow Clinton's fault because he wanted a blowjob. As if one has something to do with the other. |
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| kevin49er |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
Barbara was the wife of a US senator, the school children were connected by NatGeo, which bernard browns father worked at the pentagon. thier chapparones as well connected by the kids to the pentagon, YOU LISTED byran jacks link to the pentagon.
LITERALLY ALL BUT ONE OF THE PASSENGERS CAN BE LINKED TO DEFENSE, AND SUCH. |
Bzzzzzzztttttt...
Wrong again FW...
Barbara Olsen was NOT married to a US Senator!!!!!
She was married the Solicitor General of the United States... Ted Olsen!!! |
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| kevin49er |
Quote: Originally posted by shocktheballs
I doubt that we will ever know what happened at the pentagon. I find it tough to believe that a plane could fly over a highway, during rush hour, and not hit any vehicles. Considering how low it hit the Pentagon, how likely is it to have missed the traffic? I'm still waiting for pictures of plane debris from the Pentagon to be released. As for what happened to the passengers, that is a question that can't be answered.
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe any of the conspiracy theories. But I do think that a missile was more likely what hit the Pentagon than a plane. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the hijacked plane intended for the Pentagon was shot down before it reached it's target. |
The pictures you ask for are widely available on the web...
I am a pilot... I know for a fact that it is possible to do what was done...
They claim that the guy flying the plane was too stupid to fly the plane and that he was an idiot because he couldn't handle a Cessna 172... Well... guess what??? I would probably have a hard time flying a 172 too, since I haven't ever flown one, but moreso since I am very comfortable with the commercial "fly-by-wire" planes I fly regularly. |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by spankysxxx
Buuuuuut, you're not really demanding TRUTH as you state it. Truth was going after the terrorists in Afganistan-what is the truth about Iraq? $600,000 to investigate truth at the WTC site and $40,000,000 to investigate the truth at the Clinton blow job site?
You're not demanding truth, you're demanding blind revenge at any cost. |
you obviously have me mistaken, I just dont have the time to sit here and explain everything... however let me explain this.
we did not attack afghanistan because of some guy in a cave. Afghanistan was the worlds largest producer of poppy. (you know heroin) the taliban took over the country and made this illegal, and so it went from top producer to 0 production. The northern alliance were poppy producers.....
We went in there took over the country, turned back on the poppy, and now Afghanistan can hold themselves again proudly as the top heroin producer.
AND WE GIVE TAX DOLLARS TO THIER FARMERS!!!! FARMER AID WE CALL IT... hmmm farmers, in Afghanistan.... hmmm...
FW |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
Bzzzzzzztttttt...
Wrong again FW...
Barbara Olsen was NOT married to a US Senator!!!!!
She was married the Solicitor General of the United States... Ted Olsen!!! |
Thanks for your correction, and proving me correct on my point at the same time...
So I made a small mistake, my point was that barbara was connected to the government, which you well proved.
FW |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
The pictures you ask for are widely available on the web...
I am a pilot... I know for a fact that it is possible to do what was done...
They claim that the guy flying the plane was too stupid to fly the plane and that he was an idiot because he couldn't handle a Cessna 172... Well... guess what??? I would probably have a hard time flying a 172 too, since I haven't ever flown one, but moreso since I am very comfortable with the commercial "fly-by-wire" planes I fly regularly. |
you know for a fact, as in you have done it before....
and it didnt make a single mark on the lawn of the pentagon... at all... |
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| kevin49er |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
you know for a fact, as in you have done it before....
and it didnt make a single mark on the lawn of the pentagon... at all... |
Did it hit the lawn of the Pentagon???
Wouldn't it have to HIT the lawn to leave a scar?
And, no I have not flown a 757 into the Pentagon before...
I was simply stating that it would be possible to fly at low levels over a highway without striking any cars... |
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| FatesWebb |
(Exclusively tested at the Pentagon on
September 11, 2001.)
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/images/journal/PENT04.jpg]
(*Tire marks on lawn are
temporary and will gradually disappear within an hour.)
16pt; On September
11, 2001, a bunch of mean nasty Arab terrorists --
[url=a]who
hated our freedoms -- hijacked American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757
fully loaded with fuel, and crashed it through the first floor of the west
side wall of the Pentagon.
Just listen to what the reports
of this horrible crash had to say...[/size]
Some eyewitnesses believe
[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/11/national/main310721.shtml]the]the plane actually hit the
ground at the base of the
Pentagon first, and then skidded into the building. - CBS
...it didn't appear to crash into
the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground,
but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the
conflagration engulfed everything in flames...But I think the blessing here might have been
that the]the airplane hit before it hit the
building, it hit the ground,
and a lot of energy might have gone that way. That's what it appeared
like. - CNN
What -- or who -- caused Flight]Flight 77 to hit ground first, diffusing most of its destructive energy before
it slammed into the Pentagon? - ESPN / MSN
According to one witness, 'what looked like a
747' plowed into the south side of the Pentagon, possibly skipping]skipping through a heliport before it hit the
building. - Stars and
Stripes
The Boeing 757 struck Wedge 1 on
the Heliport side of the Pentagon
[url=a]very low to the ground and entered Wedge 1
just to the north of Corridor 4 on the first and second floors. - Annual
Status Report to Congress
l
And
the plane came
through the first floor, right through Naval Ops...
- CNN
As eyewitnesses described and photographs
demonstrate, the hijacked airliner dived so low as it approached the
Pentagon that it actually hit]hit the
ground first, thereby
dissipating much of the energy that might otherwise have caused more
extensive damage to the building. - Snopes.com
The
plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon. The impact was deafening.
The fuselage hit the ground and blew up."
- Delaware Online
I watched in horror as the plane
flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left,
drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of
the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. - James Madison Univ.
][/center] |
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| FatesWebb |
Then he caught]caught an edge of his wing on the
ground. There is a
helicopter pad right in front of the side of the Pentagon. The wing
touched there, then the plane
cart wheeled into the building.
- Time
It is also evident
that
the plane was on the ground before striking the Pentagon albeit skimming the
grass. I might also point out that distant photos will miss details on
the ground that up-close observation would show. - Christian
Patriots/Pentagon Crash Analysis
Patrick Di Justo: The plane]plane hit the ground first, then slid into the building. - Paul Boutin
weblogger.com
NBC’s Jim Miklaszewski explains that the sequence
of five photos, taken from a Department of Defense security camera, shows
the [url=http://www.msnbc.com/news/720851.asp]Boeing 757 hitting the ground an instant before it plows into the building and
explodes in a deadly fireball. - MSNBC
That must have hurt!
Just think what this would do to your lawn after an explosion like this.
Plane debris, skid marks, fire burns, jet fuel, luggage, body parts, yuck!
You would have to shell out thousands of dollars to clean up this mess!
But wait, this is not your ordinary lawn![/size]
[url=http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep2001/200109114a.jpg]
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| FatesWebb |
Do you think just any lawn would hold up
like this after a plane crashed on it?[/size]
Only the [/size]
can withstand the shear punishment
from the crash of a fully fueled 100 ton commercial airliner![/size]
This is how ordinary lawns look after commercial airliners crashed on
them...[/size]
[url=http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/fdx1478/2.shtml]
[url=http://web.archive.org/web/20010817121756/http://www.airsafetyonline.com/photos/vladivostokavia/7.shtml]
But look how marvelous the
held
up right after a fully fueled Boeing 757 crashed on it...[/b]
[url=http://web.archive.org/web/20021004125854/http://www.sipausa.com/911_selected.html]
[url=http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010015.JPG]
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| FatesWebb |
[url=http://www.student.math.uwaterloo.ca/%7Et3singh/911/pictures/pentagon_fire05.jpg]
Wish we could say the same about the
Pentagon...
[url=http://www.nfpa.org/assets/[img]http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/images/journal/PENT05.jpg]
[url=http://web.archive.org/web/20020203115142/http://www.spear.navy.mil/profile/dec01/pages/page16.html]
Of course, with an amazing
new lawn like this that is sure to take the world by storm, we had to cover
it up so our secret wouldn't get out...[/size]
[url=http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibrary/photo_details.do?id=4600]
So don't just settle for any lawn. Demand
the best
most resilient lawn money can buy today!
[url=http://www.army.mil/features/attack/attack4.htm]
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
Did it hit the lawn of the Pentagon???
Wouldn't it have to HIT the lawn to leave a scar?
And, no I have not flown a 757 into the Pentagon before...
I was simply stating that it would be possible to fly at low levels over a highway without striking any cars... |
you see here is where you are being intentionally fraudulent, as a pilot you know that these planes are very tall, the plane supposedly hit the bottom floor of the pentagon, so how is that possible without it messing up the lawn at all? the engines would have scratched the lawn, it is not possible. the engines alone are the height of a floor of the buildind, and the hole in the building was MUCH SMALLER than the plane was.. so if you are the pilot of a jumbo jet, as you say you are, you know damn well the grass would not have looked like this, and you know DAMN WELL THAT THE FIRE WOULD HAVE DAMAGED THE LAWN AS WELL!!!...
but you could putt a nice golfball on this green!!
too bad the firetrucks messed up the lawn by driving on it...
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| Stickman |
All I have to say is the G forces would not have allowed Hanjour to pull the manoeuver he did and hit the side of the Pentagon without leaving a scratch on the lawn, nor the expected debris.
I've also heard a lot of pilots say that there's no way he could've flown into the Pentagon. If you don't believe that I'm sure Fates will post the links if he hasn't already. Still people don't read.
I've heard every explanation for why there's no plane there and not a single one makes any fucking sense.
Line 'em up.. WTC 7, the towers, 93, 77, OBL.... Nothing checks out, nothing. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
AGAIN PEOPLE ON THE GROUND STATED WHAT THEY SAW ? OH YEA ..THEY ARE FIBBING. THEY WERE HIRED BY JOBS THAT WOULD HAVE THESE LIERS BE AT THE PENTAGON AT THE EXACT TIME ANDTHEN WHEN TOLD COME FORWARD..HEHEHEHEH
YOU PEOPLE HATE BUSH SO MUCH THAT YOU WANNA BELIEVE HE IS EVIL BUT THATS OK.. YOU ARE JUST MAKING THINGS HARDER FOR A DEMOCRAT WHEN AND IF HE OR SHE GETS INTO OFFICE AND THEN THAT DEMOCRAT IS GONNA NUKE THEM. |
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| FatesWebb |
the thing is dude-here, that sure they stated certain things, but each also had something that they said that was not part of the official story.
and look at that picture!!
look at the precision that would have been required to of done this.... This would have you believe that if the pilot on your plane just passed out, that you your self could walk into the cockpit and easily land the plane.... Kevin49er is telling us that he believes that all of his flight training was un-needed. that you could easily land a plane inches above the ground without touching the ground at what was it? 522 mph??? that he went to school, and not to mention got out of that and went straight into the cockpit, and started landing 767s immediatly after that. The first time he ever stepped into the cockpit of a 767 he landed it???? hani hanover, did!!
and dont say it was easier to crash into this building all perfect, than it is to land a plane on the runway... I aint buying that.... if he got this far, he could have landed it, the wings were not tilted, and he didnt touch the ground....
let me ask you this, your a suicide hijacker, and you see the pentagon, its like a circle almost, almost like a bullseye.... so do you not dive for it, bu t fly another 5 minutes risking the operation, to come back around to make an approach on it, simular to a landing into the side of the building??? or do you dive into the center of it, and not waste 5 minutes risking being shot down???? mind you, we would assume you didnt know that norad was running like 13 different wargames, so nobody would shoot you down....
So do you fly around, and land as if on a runway? or do you dive torward it???? |
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| kevin49er |
Quote: Originally posted by Stickman
All I have to say is the G forces would not have allowed Hanjour to pull the manoeuver he did and hit the side of the Pentagon without leaving a scratch on the lawn, nor the expected debris.
I've also heard a lot of pilots say that there's no way he could've flown into the Pentagon. If you don't believe that I'm sure Fates will post the links if he hasn't already. Still people don't read.
I've heard every explanation for why there's no plane there and not a single one makes any fucking sense.
Line 'em up.. WTC 7, the towers, 93, 77, OBL.... Nothing checks out, nothing. |
What G forces???
He was flying in a straight line... and decending...
He was not banking, turning, climbing... those are the things that apply stress to the airframe...
Did anyone ask the afore mentioned pilots if programming the FCS would create a similar outcome???
And for the record... as a pilot... flying the plane into a building... in my opinion is much easier than landing it. Did Hanjour deploy the flaps? What about lower the gear? Did he flare the nose? Hummm... did he do ANYTHING to induce a stall???
Doesn't appear that way...
And FW... why would the engines have to hit the ground way back from the building??? The is evidence that one of them clipped the top of a generator... and your posts suggest that the left wing tip "clipped" the helipad... not the GRASS... |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
What G forces???
He was flying in a straight line... and decending...
He was not banking, turning, climbing... those are the things that apply stress to the airframe...
Did anyone ask the afore mentioned pilots if programming the FCS would create a similar outcome???
And for the record... as a pilot... flying the plane into a building... in my opinion is much easier than landing it. Did Hanjour deploy the flaps? What about lower the gear? Did he flare the nose? Hummm... did he do ANYTHING to induce a stall???
Doesn't appear that way...
And FW... why would the engines have to hit the ground way back from the building??? The is evidence that one of them clipped the top of a generator... and your posts suggest that the left wing tip "clipped" the helipad... not the GRASS... |
he was flying in a straight line? the hijacker knew how to program the flight calibration services in how to not just land at the pentagon, but to circle around for 5 minutes, and then land at the pentagon?? and do it where there is no runway, or waypoint, and do it so precisely that he didnt even scar the ground, or overshoot the top of the building so perfect....
boy IF you are a pilot, you are losing credit as we speak, because you know your full of shit...
you need to stay out of the conversation when it comes to the pentagon, it exposes your motive. IF YOU ARE A PILOT. OF A 767. as you claim to be.
so some dipshit, drug addict, from a third world country can land a plane into a building PERFECT without any G-Forces, at 522 mph?????? with minimal training??
I even doubt if Charles Blasingame is capable of that, but you see to think a pilots license comes in a crackerjack box....
I dont believe your a pilot...
you may have a license but you dont fly 767s..... or so...
FW |
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| Stickman |
Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
What G forces???
He was flying in a straight line... and decending...
He was not banking, turning, climbing... those are the things that apply stress to the airframe...
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What are you basing this on? How about the official story:
American 77 was then 5 miles west-southwest of the Pentagon and began a 330-degree turn. At the end of the turn, it was descending through 2,200 feet, pointed toward the Pentagon and downtown Washington. The hijacker pilot then advanced the throttles to maximum power and dove toward the Pentagon.
No G Force, are you fucking high? |
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| kevin49er |
Quote: Originally posted by Stickman
What are you basing this on? How about the official story:
American 77 was then 5 miles west-southwest of the Pentagon and began a 330-degree turn. At the end of the turn, it was descending through 2,200 feet, pointed toward the Pentagon and downtown Washington. The hijacker pilot then advanced the throttles to maximum power and dove toward the Pentagon.
No G Force, are you fucking high? |
How tight was the turn? Do you know??? If it was a broad sweeping(Yaw- turning the nose) turn then the G-load was minimal, but if it was tight turn with yaw and roll(turning the nose and tilting the wings) then it increased the G-load... but again, how tight the turn was is critical... I saw the "animation" that was provided, and it looks like it was a pretty broad turn... and executed very slowly...
And just so you know... nosing the aircraft downward causes negative Gs... not positive Gs... Negative Gs are what cause the feeling of weightlessness. Think: "Vomit Comet" The only way to avoid negative Gs is to roll the plane 180* which clearly, by witness testimony and FDR data didn't happen.
Another thing to consider is that if he attempted to turn the plane to steeply he would have induced a stall, meaning the wings were not producing enough lift to to keep the plane airborne... and the nose would have begun to drop... I doubt that with his level of experience that he would have been able to recover from a stall at the altitude he was flying. |
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| kevin49er |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
he was flying in a straight line? the hijacker knew how to program the flight calibration services in how to not just land at the pentagon, but to circle around for 5 minutes, and then land at the pentagon?? and do it where there is no runway, or waypoint, and do it so precisely that he didnt even scar the ground, or overshoot the top of the building so perfect....
boy IF you are a pilot, you are losing credit as we speak, because you know your full of shit...
you need to stay out of the conversation when it comes to the pentagon, it exposes your motive. IF YOU ARE A PILOT. OF A 767. as you claim to be.
so some dipshit, drug addict, from a third world country can land a plane into a building PERFECT without any G-Forces, at 522 mph?????? with minimal training??
I even doubt if Charles Blasingame is capable of that, but you see to think a pilots license comes in a crackerjack box....
I dont believe your a pilot...
you may have a license but you dont fly 767s..... or so...
FW |
I do not fly the 767 or 757... I fly planes manufactured by Airbus... (A320, A321)
I don't understand why you think that it is so hard to fly a plane... especially one that someone has already gotten airborne for you. The most difficult(and dangerous) parts of a flight are the takeoff and landing. Why you ask??? One word... DRAG.
When you are taking off, you have flaps set and the gear is down... and you are basically just trying to keep the aircraft out of a stall... on landing it is the same thing... however you have to get your airspeed down as well so that you can stop in the alotted distance(namely, within the length of the runway). However, while the plane is airborne, you just have to maintain the lift... so that basically means, not doing anything stupid, like climbing quickly without increasing thrust, or turning too sharply... |
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| Halcyon |
:munch:
I'd like to comment that I have no opinion on this matter essentially because I don't have enough education on this situation but I am enjoying your guys's debate. Please continue.
Personally, it sounds to me like there was no plane. But I'm listening with an open mind here..... ok continue
:munch: |
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| Ironpirate |
| i swear people iq's around here drop every time reading this thread |
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| Ironpirate |
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| tourette_ticker |
| I'm getting a clue. |
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| Halcyon |
Quote: Originally posted by Ironpirate
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Shutup redeye, I mean ironpirate, I mean MULT! |
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| Ironpirate |
| im getting a big clue over here |
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| kevin49er |
Again... FW...
He was not "landing" the plane as I would land my plane...
He hadn't deployed the flaps, nor dropped the gear...
Actually had he done that at full throttle... well... use your imagination... |
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| Billyfromsphily |
Come on Kevin, You know that a 757 and 320 fly differently!!!!
How could they ever hit a building without shedding their flaps and gear and lavatories as soon as they made contact with the granite facing? Why would they not disintegrate because the pilots weren't fully trained by UA or TWA or whoever the carrier was? I mean Charlton Heston could fly a 747 , why couldn't Mohammed Albullshit do it?
Wait , there is a Utube video by Professor Jones proving you don't know shit about flying......
You just can't win.
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
I do not fly the 767 or 757... I fly planes manufactured by Airbus... (A320, A321)
I don't understand why you think that it is so hard to fly a plane... especially one that someone has already gotten airborne for you. The most difficult(and dangerous) parts of a flight are the takeoff and landing. Why you ask??? One word... DRAG.
When you are taking off, you have flaps set and the gear is down... and you are basically just trying to keep the aircraft out of a stall... on landing it is the same thing... however you have to get your airspeed down as well so that you can stop in the alotted distance(namely, within the length of the runway). However, while the plane is airborne, you just have to maintain the lift... so that basically means, not doing anything stupid, like climbing quickly without increasing thrust, or turning too sharply... |
funny how there are so many pilots, and ATC saying that are saying it was impossible even for a fighter pilot, and you act like he walked in and programmed the autopilot to land at the pentagon...
I dont even think you could have done that personally, and I think you are more qualified than anyone on the plane with the exception of charles blasingame. |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
Again... FW...
He was not "landing" the plane as I would land my plane...
He hadn't deployed the flaps, nor dropped the gear...
Actually had he done that at full throttle... well... use your imagination... |
uh yeah, and sure, he was also doing over 500mph and inches off of the ground... had he lowered his gear he would have landed. |
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| kevin49er |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
uh yeah, and sure, he was also doing over 500mph and inches off of the ground... had he lowered his gear he would have landed. |
Ummmm... no... it would have been sheared off... |
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| kevin49er |
FW...
You are really over simplifying this whole landing thing...
You don't just "drive" down toward the ground and drop your gear and voila... you land...
It is far more complicated than that...
Let me ask you this... Have you ever flown in a large jet? |
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| kevin49er |
Quote: Originally posted by FatesWebb
funny how there are so many pilots, and ATC saying that are saying it was impossible even for a fighter pilot, and you act like he walked in and programmed the autopilot to land at the pentagon...
I dont even think you could have done that personally, and I think you are more qualified than anyone on the plane with the exception of charles blasingame. |
And it is NOT impossible... improbable??? Yes...
You don't "program" the autopilot to land...
You can input a waypoint(Lat-Long) into the flight computer and it will prompt you with headings, or you can choose to have it take you there...
Judging by how smooth the plane flied at first(in the animation) and then it was more erratic... I'd say he had the autopilot on for a time, then was activly controlling the plane. |
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| Stickman |
Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
And it is NOT impossible... improbable??? Yes...
You don't "program" the autopilot to land...
You can input a waypoint(Lat-Long) into the flight computer and it will prompt you with headings, or you can choose to have it take you there...
Judging by how smooth the plane flied at first(in the animation) and then it was more erratic... I'd say he had the autopilot on for a time, then was activly controlling the plane. |
Does Hanjour program the autopilot before or after he gains control of the cockpit with a box cutter, from Chick Burlingame, a 6 -5 ex military guy?
Assuming of course that he ever learned how to program the autopilot. |
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| FatesWebb |
Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
FW...
You are really over simplifying this whole landing thing...
You don't just "drive" down toward the ground and drop your gear and voila... you land...
It is far more complicated than that...
Let me ask you this... Have you ever flown in a large jet? |
THANKS FOR HELPING ME MAKE MY POINT...
let me ask you this, is it harder or easier to land at 500mph??? \
its damn near impossible... that is my point... but dont believe me believe the pilots that made the call to the guys who wrote the official story. the plane would have crashed into cars, into the ground, into the DIFFERENT light posts, and they would not have been barely ripped out...
you act like the turbulence tore off the light poles, but only like 3 plane lengths the plane was at ground level to smash into the building, and better yet the unexperienced pilot was able to pull it all off at 500 mph..
no, as you know I am not a pilot of large aircraft, however I know when other pilots are calling bullshit, to look at the facts and say bs as well.
you could not have pulled the maneuvers off, I know you watched the video, but we have already explained that it was not consistant with what was reported by ATC, whom claimed it had to be a military vehicle to maneuver that way..
take that into account and also think about how the pilot was the BEST EVER FIGHTER JET PILOT, and you start to wonder why they changed the origional story from mohammed atta flying the plane, to hani hanjour flying it...
I think the video you saw was decieving, and you need to see the flight data, HOWEVER being your a pilot, maybe I need to get pilots to explain it to you in your terms. that would be the true test of your own capacity to battle cognative dissonance.
let me introduce you to this if you have not looked.
http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/
this is directly on topic, but since your a pilot I would like you to take the time, from picking arguments with my crumbs (mouse in corner) and look at this, if you come up with points that seem reasonable, and not a mouse in the corner, Ill praise you for showing me the truth.
Still yet I see the pentagon as a side issue, because no matter what happened there, It is not even close to my best argument on 9/11 but I do find the flight data to be damning.
please do review it specifically some of the data like this. since your a pilot maybe you can answer these questions???? you act like it was quite easy to pull off.
Questions for the US Govt regarding AA77 Flight Data Recorder.
1. The current FDR shows 480' MSL True Altitude, too high to hit the light poles. What are your findings of True Altitude at end of data recording 09:37:44. Why did you provide a Flight Data Recorder that shows the aircraft too high without a side letter of explanation? How did you come to your conclusion.
2. What is the vertical speed at end of data recording :44. How did you come to your conclusion.
3. What is the Absolute Altitude and end of data recording? How did you come to your conclusion.
4. Why does the csv file show the altimeter being set in the baro cor column on the descent through FL180, but the animation altimeter does not show it being set?(This is a blatant cover-up to confuse the average layman in hopes no one would adjust for local pressure to get True Altitude. Too bad for them we caught it).
5. Why do the current G Forces for the last minute of data correspond to the changes in vertical speed, yet at end of data :44-:45 it shows an increase in vertical speed never accounting for any type of level off to be level with the lawn as shown in the DoD video?
6. Do you have any video showing a clear impact and/or of the plane on its approach to impact?
7. Why does your animation show a flight path north of the reported flight path?
8. Why are there no system indication of any impact with any object up to and after :44?
9. Why does the csv file and animation show a right bank when the official report requires a left bank to be consistent with physical damage to the generator?
10. How did you come to the conclusion of 09:37:45 as the official impact time?
11. What is the exact chain of custody of the FDR? What date/time was it found? Where exactly was it found? Please provide documentation and names.
12. Why does the hijack timeline show a 3 min interval for hijacking to take place? Why did Capt Burlingame not follow protocol for the Common Strategy prior to 9/11?
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pentagon.html |
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| FatesWebb |
While your at it really take a good look at this page
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/flight77/theories.html
Justa FYI the pilot of 77...
1. Charles F. Burlingame III, 51, of Herndon, Virginia, was the Captain of Flight 77, an aeronautical engineer, and a former Navy fighter pilot.
A graduate of the Naval Academy and the Navy's Top Gun fighter pilot school in Miramar, Calif., Mr. Burlingame accepted a position 12 years ago with American Airlines, where his wife, Shari, is a flight attendant.
At Dulles Airport, Capt. Charles Burlingame, who had been a Navy F-4 pilot and once worked on anti-terrorism strategies in the Pentagon, was steering his 757, American Airlines Flight 77, down the runway for the long flight to Los Angeles.
Like many military pilots, Burlingame considered the most difficult job to be landing an F-4 fighter jet on the deck of an aircraft carrier as it pitched at sea in the dark of night. After he left the Navy, Burlingame was hired by American Airlines in 1989.
Navy Vice Adm. Timothy Keating said Burlingame, who trained many pilots, "could make the jets talk. He could fly."
Friends and family remembered him as a man who was unabashedly patriotic, who embraced military life even after he retired from active and reserve duty. He remained active in the reserve, working until 1996 as a liaison in the Pentagon (where he had worked for most of his 17 years as a Naval Reserve officer). When his plane went down Tuesday, it ripped through a section of the building that includes the Navy Reserve offices.
Mark Burlingame said his brother was in the Navy Reserve and had worked in the same area of the Pentagon where the airliner crashed.
He planned to celebrate his 52nd birthday by attending a California Angels baseball game in Anaheim last Wednesday. When he learned he couldn't get a good seat for the game, he told his wife, Sheri, not to join him aboard the ill-fated flight.
Burlingame's father, Charles F. Burlingame Jr. (75), joined the Navy at the age of 17 and had a 23-year military career in the Navy and Air Force. His mother, Patricia A. Burlingame, who died 10 months before her son, was a nurse and medical technician, according to their obituaries.
"One of the true ironies of this crash is that it was into the Pentagon, where he worked for many years as a naval reserve officer," said Burlingame's brother, Brad, a tourism executive in West Hollywood, California. "The people that perished in that crash could very well have been friends and colleagues of his."
Debra Burlingame, sister of Charles Burlingame, "The fact is, it wasn't our government who killed my brother and 3,000 people," she said. It was 19 hijackers and their sponsors. Burlingame was one of those who protested Bush's reluctance to appoint the Sept. 11 commission in the first place. She joined a vigil outside the White House, carrying a big sign that said, "My Brother's Murderers Were Listed in the San Diego Phone Book" -- as one of the hijackers was.
"We wanted to assure people that if there was any chance of saving that plane, this was the kind of guy who would have been able to do that," she said. "This was a guy that's been through SERE (Survival Evasion Resistance Escape) school in the Navy and had very tough psychological and physical preparation."
They spread the word about Burlingame's experience as a fighter pilot for eight years, and a reserve officer who worked for the assistant secretary of defense during the Persian Gulf war.
Pentagon Gives September 11 Pilot Arlington Plot
"The U.S. Army agreed on Friday to allow the pilot of an American Airlines plane that hijackers crashed into the Pentagon on September 11 to be buried in his own plot at Arlington National Cemetery.
Under pressure from politicians and the public, Army Secretary Thomas White said he would grant a waiver allowing Captain Charles Burlingame III to be buried in his own plot at Arlington, sacred ground for American heroes.
Under Arlington regulations, retired reservists must turn 60 before they can be buried at Arlington National Cemetery, and Burlingame was only 52." -Arlington Cemetery (12/07/01) |
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| kevin49er |
Ummmmm... do you want to reword that???
Obviously after...
Something caused him to give up his plane. What the something was... probably more than a box-cutter. Pilots do NOT just give up the plane. You are responsible for the protection and safety of all those onboard. I know Barbara Olsen reported that the flight crew was herded to the back of the plane... do you know if she gave numbers of people??? (That is a serious question) If I had to guess, the pilots may have been dead or critically injured, because again... a pilot does NOT just give up the plane. |
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| Stickman |
Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
Ummmmm... do you want to reword that???
Obviously after...
Something caused him to give up his plane. What the something was... probably more than a box-cutter. Pilots do NOT just give up the plane. You are responsible for the protection and safety of all those onboard. I know Barbara Olsen reported that the flight crew was herded to the back of the plane... do you know if she gave numbers of people??? (That is a serious question) If I had to guess, the pilots may have been dead or critically injured, because again... a pilot does NOT just give up the plane. |
No. It was meant to be sarcastic.
Like FW says, you're proving the point. Like you say, pilots don't just give up their cockpits. |
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| FatesWebb |
| oh, and when precisely do you call bullshit? or even mouseshit? ant shit? |
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