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Actress Adrienne Shelly Killed By Illegal Alien Day Laborer
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| Actress Adrienne Shelly Killed By Illegal Alien Day Laborer
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| DUDE-HERE |
Actress Was Killed in Hanging Meant as Cover-Up, Officials Say
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By THOMAS J. LUECK and AL BAKER
Published: November 8, 2006
He told detectives that he had hit her in the face and had thought she was dead. So, the police said, he wrapped a sheet around her neck and hanged her from a shower curtain rod, figuring that the police would think suicide. But he was wrong on both counts.
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Patrick Andrade for The New York Times
Diego Pillco, 19, an illegal immigrant from Ecuador, is charged with second-degree murder.
It was the hanging that killed Adrienne Shelly, a Manhattan actress and a mother, the authorities said yesterday. And it was the ruse of a fake suicide that ultimately led detectives to the man charged with killing her.
Such was the courtroom revelation at the arraignment of Diego Pillco, 19, an illegal immigrant from Ecuador who is charged with second-degree murder in the death of Ms. Shelly, 40, last week. The case has given pause to even the most experienced police investigators, who call it one of the most macabre killings in memory.
“This woman did not die from a strike to the head,” said Marit DeLozier, an assistant Manhattan district attorney, speaking at the arraignment before Judge Brenda S. Soloff in Manhattan Criminal Court.
“The medical examiner has made it crystal clear that the victim died from compression to the neck,” Ms. DeLozier said.
Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the city medical examiner, said that a final determination of the cause of death would require further study. She said she was not contradicting what Ms. DeLozier said in court, but just pointing out that additional scientific analysis was necessary.
“As we frequently do in homicide investigations, we are providing guidance to the police and the prosecutors to enable them to determine what further steps they may need to take,” she said. She said that work may be completed as soon as today.
A veteran homicide investigator, who was not authorized to comment on the case and spoke on the condition of anonymity, said: “It’s really kind of bizarre. Usually, if it’s something they’re going to try to hide, they’re pretty sure the person is dead.
“And he almost got away with it, too,” the investigator said.
Mr. Pillco, a construction worker who speaks little English, entered no plea, and did not utter a word before Judge Soloff. A slight man, dressed in jeans, sneakers and a sweatshirt, he was remanded without bail to Rikers Island.
He was represented at the arraignment by Thomas Klein, a lawyer with the Legal Aid Society. After the hearing, Mr. Klein declined to comment on the case.
The court appearance came six days after the body of Ms. Shelly, who was also a screenwriter and director, was found by her husband in the bathroom of a West Village apartment that she used as an office. A bedsheet had been tied around her neck, and she had been hanged from a shower curtain rod.
Investigators at first suspected suicide, a theory rejected by Ms. Shelly’s family and friends, who said that her life was filled with promise and that she was devoted to her 3-year-old daughter.
Ultimately, investigators said, Mr. Pillco admitted under questioning by detectives that he had been working in a third-floor apartment beneath Ms. Shelly’s, that she had complained about construction noise, and that their confrontation had convulsed into violence, ending in Ms. Shelly’s death.
Yesterday, details of the case emerged, including the chain of events that detectives say was described to them by Mr. Pillco. They include Mr. Pillco’s account of being slapped by Ms. Shelly and pleading with her not to call the police before he hit her in the face, dragged her into the bathroom and strung her from the shower curtain rod.
Acquaintances of Mr. Pillco, who had been living in Greenwood Heights, Brooklyn, described him as an energetic and respectful young man who was struggling with the physical rigors of his job and the disorientation of his illegal immigrant status.
“I still don’t think he could do something like this,” said Frank Diaz, a resident of the building on Prospect Avenue where Mr. Pillco lived in a cramped basement space with two other Ecuadorean construction workers.
Ms. Shelly, a native of Queens, had appeared in several films, including “The Unbelievable Truth,” “Trust” and “Factotum,” and used the apartment where she was killed, at 15 Abingdon Square, as a base for film writing and other projects.
According to a law enforcement official, detectives responding to the scene of the killing last Wednesday saw no signs of a struggle, but seized upon one clue that could not be explained: a footprint on the cover of a toilet beneath the curtain rod where Ms. Shelly had been hanged.
The official said detectives thought the footprint might have been left by a firefighter or emergency responder, but no match could be found. After canvassing the building, and finding that the apartment below Ms. Shelly’s was being renovated, he said, the detectives encountered a worker who said he thought Mr. Pillco had been working there.
After tracking down Mr. Pillco, he said, the detectives found a Reebok sneaker in his apartment that matched the crime scene footprint, and brought him in for questioning.
According to Mr. Pillco’s account, the police official said, the confrontation with Ms. Shelly began about 9:30 a.m. after she went downstairs to complain about the noise. Sharp words were exchanged, and Mr. Pillco threw a hammer, but it did not hit Ms. Shelly, the official said.
Then, Ms. Shelly stormed up the stairs with Mr. Pillco following her, warning her not to call the police. At her door, Mr. Pillco grabbed Ms. Shelly, and she responded by slapping him in the face, the official said he told investigators.
When Mr. Pillco struck back, she fell, banging her head and losing consciousness. Then, Mr. Pillco took her into the bathroom and used a bedsheet to hang her, the official said.
“He tries to stage this thing because he is trying to make it go away,” the official said.
The police said yesterday that they did not believe that Mr. Pillco had a criminal record in Ecuador.
According to acquaintances in Brooklyn, Mr. Pillco was working for a construction contractor, Louis Hernandez, who owns the Prospect Avenue apartment building. The acquaintances said Mr. Pillco shared his basement quarters with his brother and a cousin.
They said the quarters had been hastily vacated, and all beds and furniture removed, before dawn on Monday. The two men who had lived with Mr. Pillco, also illegal immigrants from Ecuador, have not been seen since, the acquaintances said, apparently fearing they would be deported if they spoke to the police.
Mr. Hernandez, in a statement provided by a member of his staff, said yesterday that Mr. Pillco had been working for him “for the past few months as a construction helper.”
He said that Mr. Pillco, a part-time employee, and had demonstrated “respectful, well-mannered, decent and responsible behavior.”
Mr. Hernandez’s statement appeared to include an admission that he had illegally employed an undocumented immigrant. Marc Raimondi, a spokesman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said he could not comment on the case. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
| you can expect more of this with demorats incharged. i don't agree with Bush on this issue and nor do many republicans . these murdereres are the dems voting base. they did try and get inmates rights to vote |
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| Jackie's Career |
| Killers are killers, it doesn't matter where their nationality or legal status is. |
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| DrGunt |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
you can expect more of this with demorats incharged. i don't agree with Bush on this issue and nor do many republicans . these murdereres are the dems voting base. they did try and get inmates rights to vote |
one bad bean doesn't spoil the whole burrito. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by Jackies Career
Killers are killers, it doesn't matter where their nationality or legal status is. |
well, one could say if we didn't allow these illegals here, she would still be alive. they kill over 1800 americans every year through crime |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by DrGunt
one bad bean doesn't spoil the whole burrito. |
i love burritos |
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| DrGunt |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
well, one could say if we didn't allow these illegals here, she would still be alive. they kill over 1800 americans every year through crime |
Admit it, you're a racist. I've seen your posts. You're a crybaby Republican.
Listen to your mother!! She sounds like a nice jewish lady. |
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| patcracker |
you can expect more of this with demorats incharged.
What am does dis mean? Your a fucking moron Dude. How do you think all these illegals got here? Maybe by big corporations in search of cheap labor like ..... Walmart. Fuck off retard.
:fu: |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by DrGunt
admit it. you're a racist. I've seen your posts. you're a douchebag crybaby republican |
how am i a racist. i have lots of mexican friends from Oaxaca, i have eben sponcered a kid for my buddy rodrigo, his son froilon. so please explane to me how i am racist |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by patcracker
you can expect more of this with demorats incharged.
What am does dis mean? Your a fucking moron Dude. How do you think all these illegals got here? Maybe by big corporations in search of cheap labor like ..... Walmart. Fuck off retard.
:fu: |
because bush and dems support a guest worker program which i do not |
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| ru8up? |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
you can expect more of this with demorats incharged. i don't agree with Bush on this issue and nor do many republicans . these murdereres are the dems voting base. they did try and get inmates rights to vote |
wow, you continue to get stupider and stupider
illegal immigration would go away tommorrow if the employers that hired them were charged and convicted of that crime
this all started with reagan and his amnesty program to give corporations people willing to work for poverty wages |
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| Jackie's Career |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
well, one could say if we didn't allow these illegals here, she would still be alive. they kill over 1800 americans every year through crime |
Well if they are illegal then obviously we didn't allow them here. These things happen. It's not a result of nationality or legal status, people who are sick in the head are sick in the head. They exist in every race and country. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by ru8up?
wow, you continue to get stupider and stupider
illegal immigration would go away tommorrow if the employers that hired them were charged and convicted of that crime
this all started with reagan and his amnesty program to give corporations people willing to work for poverty wages |
and that would go away if bush and dems held businesses accountable |
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| DrGunt |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
how am i a racist. i have lots of mexican friends from Oaxaca, i have eben sponcered a kid for my buddy rodrigo, his son froilon. so please explane to me how i am racist |
You're implying all immigrants are criminals. That is not true. That is racist. |
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| ru8up? |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
well, one could say if we didn't allow these illegals here, she would still be alive. they kill over 1800 americans every year through crime |
how many americans are killed by guns every year through crime? |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by Jackies Career
Well if they are illegal then obviously we didn't allow them here. These things happen. It's not a result of nationality or legal status, people who are sick in the head are sick in the head. They exist in every race and country. |
we have enough sickos here ..we should not be allowing sickos from mexico too |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by DrGunt
You're implying all immigrants are criminals. That is not true. That is racist. |
where did i imply that. many of them are ! |
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| ru8up? |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
and that would go away if bush and dems held businesses accountable |
they didn't come here on nov. 7th
delay and frist had control for a long time |
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| DrGunt |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
we have enough sickos here ..we should not be allowing sickos from mexico too |
your hatred of mexicans is apparent. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by DrGunt
your hatred of mexicans is apparent. |
i don't think so ....how could i hate mexicans and sponcer a mexican to be a citizen ? |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
you can expect more of this with demorats incharged. i don't agree with Bush on this issue and nor do many republicans . these murdereres are the dems voting base. they did try and get inmates rights to vote |
How many Americans are killed by other American citizens each day, fucktard?
Please climb to the top of your roof and help natural selection by jumping to your death....
 <----you |
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| DrGunt |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
i don't think so ....how could i hate mexicans and sponcer a mexican to be a citizen ? |
LOL, you're a moron, right? |
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| DUDE-HERE |
The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave
Heather Mac Donald
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Some of the most violent criminals at large today are illegal aliens. Yet in cities where the crime these aliens commit is highest, the police cannot use the most obvious tool to apprehend them: their immigration status. In Los Angeles, for example, dozens of members of a ruthless Salvadoran prison gang have sneaked back into town after having been deported for such crimes as murder, assault with a deadly weapon, and drug trafficking. Police officers know who they are and know that their mere presence in the country is a felony. Yet should a cop arrest an illegal gangbanger for felonious reentry, it is he who will be treated as a criminal, for violating the LAPD’s rule against enforcing immigration law.
The LAPD’s ban on immigration enforcement mirrors bans in immigrant-saturated cities around the country, from New York and Chicago to San Diego, Austin, and Houston. These “sanctuary policies” generally prohibit city employees, including the cops, from reporting immigration violations to federal authorities.
Such laws testify to the sheer political power of immigrant lobbies, a power so irresistible that police officials shrink from even mentioning the illegal-alien crime wave. “We can’t even talk about it,” says a frustrated LAPD captain. “People are afraid of a backlash from Hispanics.” Another LAPD commander in a predominantly Hispanic, gang-infested district sighs: “I would get a firestorm of criticism if I talked about [enforcing the immigration law against illegals].” Neither captain would speak for attribution.
But however pernicious in themselves, sanctuary rules are a symptom of a much broader disease: the nation’s near-total loss of control over immigration policy. Fifty years ago, immigration policy might have driven immigration numbers, but today the numbers drive policy. The nonstop increase of immigration is reshaping the language and the law to dissolve any distinction between legal and illegal aliens and, ultimately, the very idea of national borders.
It is a measure of how topsy-turvy the immigration environment has become that to ask police officials about the illegal-alien crime problem feels like a gross faux pas, not done in polite company. And a police official asked to violate this powerful taboo will give a strangled response—or, as in the case of a New York deputy commissioner, break off communication altogether. Meanwhile, millions of illegal aliens work, shop, travel, and commit crimes in plain view, utterly secure in their de facto immunity from the immigration law.
I asked the Miami Police Department’s spokesman, Detective Delrish Moss, about his employer’s policy on lawbreaking illegals. In September, the force arrested a Honduran visa violator for seven vicious rapes. The previous year, Miami cops had had the suspect in custody for lewd and lascivious molestation, without checking his immigration status. Had they done so, they would have discovered his visa overstay, a deportable offense, and so could have forestalled the rapes. “We have shied away from unnecessary involvement dealing with immigration issues,” explains Moss, choosing his words carefully, “because of our large immigrant population.”
Police commanders may not want to discuss, much less respond to, the illegal-alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling. Some examples:
• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.
• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.
• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.
Good luck finding any reference to such facts in official crime analysis. The LAPD and the L.A. city attorney recently requested an injunction against drug trafficking in Hollywood, targeting the 18th Street Gang and the “non–gang members” who sell drugs in Hollywood for the gang. Those non–gang members are virtually all illegal Mexicans, smuggled into the country by a ring organized by 18th Street bigs. The Mexicans pay off their transportation debts to the gang by selling drugs; many soon realize how lucrative that line of work is and stay in the business.
Cops and prosecutors universally know the immigration status of these non-gang “Hollywood dealers,” as the city attorney calls them, but the gang injunction is assiduously silent on the matter. And if a Hollywood officer were to arrest an illegal dealer (known on the street as a “border brother”) for his immigration status, or even notify the Immigration and Naturalization Service (since early 2003, absorbed into the new Department of Homeland Security), he would face severe discipline for violating Special Order 40, the city’s sanctuary policy.
The ordinarily tough-as-nails former LAPD chief Daryl Gates enacted Special Order 40 in 1979—showing that even the most unapologetic law-and-order cop is no match for immigration advocates. The order prohibits officers from “initiating police action where the objective is to discover the alien status of a person”—in other words, the police may not even ask someone they have arrested about his immigration status until after they have filed criminal charges, nor may they arrest someone for immigration violations. They may not notify immigration authorities about an illegal alien picked up for minor violations. Only if they have already booked an illegal alien for a felony or for multiple misdemeanors may they inquire into his status or report him. The bottom line: a cordon sanitaire between local law enforcement and immigration authorities that creates a safe haven for illegal criminals.
L.A.’s sanctuary law and all others like it contradict a key 1990s policing discovery: the Great Chain of Being in criminal behavior. Pick up a law-violator for a “minor” crime, and you might well prevent a major crime: enforcing graffiti and turnstile-jumping laws nabs you murderers and robbers. Enforcing known immigration violations, such as reentry following deportation, against known felons, would be even more productive. LAPD officers recognize illegal deported gang members all the time—flashing gang signs at court hearings for rival gangbangers, hanging out on the corner, or casing a target. These illegal returnees are, simply by being in the country after deportation, committing a felony (in contrast to garden-variety illegals on their first trip to the U.S., say, who are only committing a misdemeanor). “But if I see a deportee from the Mara Salvatrucha [Salvadoran prison] gang crossing the street, I know I can’t touch him,” laments a Los Angeles gang officer. Only if the deported felon has given the officer some other reason to stop him, such as an observed narcotics sale, can the cop accost him—but not for the immigration felony.
Though such a policy puts the community at risk, the department’s top brass brush off such concerns. No big deal if you see deported gangbangers back on the streets, they say. Just put them under surveillance for “real” crimes and arrest them for those. But surveillance is very manpower-intensive. Where there is an immediate ground for getting a violent felon off the street and for questioning him further, it is absurd to demand that the woefully understaffed LAPD ignore it.
The stated reasons for sanctuary policies are that they encourage illegal-alien crime victims and witnesses to cooperate with cops without fear of deportation, and that they encourage illegals to take advantage of city services like health care and education (to whose maintenance few illegals have contributed a single tax dollar, of course). There has never been any empirical verification that sanctuary laws actually accomplish these goals—and no one has ever suggested not enforcing drug laws, say, for fear of intimidating drug-using crime victims. But in any case, this official rationale could be honored by limiting police use of immigration laws to some subset of immigration violators: deported felons, say, or repeat criminal offenders whose immigration status police already know.
The real reason cities prohibit their cops and other employees from immigration reporting and enforcement is, like nearly everything else in immigration policy, the numbers. The immigrant population has grown so large that public officials are terrified of alienating it, even at the expense of ignoring the law and tolerating violence. In 1996, a breathtaking Los Angeles Times exposé on the 18th Street Gang, which included descriptions of innocent bystanders being murdered by laughing cholos (gang members), revealed the rate of illegal-alien membership in the gang. In response to the public outcry, the Los Angeles City Council ordered the police to reexamine Special Order 40. You would have thought it had suggested reconsidering Roe v. Wade. A police commander warned the council: “This is going to open a significant, heated debate.” City Councilwoman Laura Chick put on a brave front: “We mustn’t be afraid,” she declared firmly.
But of course immigrant pandering trumped public safety. Law-abiding residents of gang-infested neighborhoods may live in terror of the tattooed gangbangers dealing drugs, spraying graffiti, and shooting up rivals outside their homes, but such anxiety can never equal a politician’s fear of offending Hispanics. At the start of the reexamination process, LAPD deputy chief John White had argued that allowing the department to work closely with the INS would give cops another tool for getting gang members off the streets. Trying to build a homicide case, say, against an illegal gang member is often futile, he explained, since witnesses fear deadly retaliation if they cooperate with the police. Enforcing an immigration violation would allow the cops to lock up the murderer right now, without putting a witness’s life at risk.
But six months later, Deputy Chief White had changed his tune: “Any broadening of the policy gets us into the immigration business,” he asserted. “It’s a federal law-enforcement issue, not a local law-enforcement issue.” Interim police chief Bayan Lewis told the L.A. Police Commission: “It is not the time. It is not the day to look at Special Order 40.”
Nor will it ever be, as long as immigration numbers continue to grow. After their brief moment of truth in 1996, Los Angeles politicians have only grown more adamant in defense of Special Order 40. After learning that cops in the scandal-plagued Rampart Division had cooperated with the INS to try to uproot murderous gang members from the community, local politicians threw a fit, criticizing district commanders for even allowing INS agents into their station houses. In turn, the LAPD strictly disciplined the offending officers. By now, big-city police chiefs are unfortunately just as determined to defend sanctuary policies as the politicians who appoint them; not so the rank and file, however, who see daily the benefit that an immigration tool would bring.
Immigration politics have similarly harmed New York. Former mayor Rudolph Giuliani sued all the way up to the Supreme Court to defend the city’s sanctuary policy against a 1996 federal law decreeing that cities could not prohibit their employees from cooperating with the INS. Oh yeah? said Giuliani; just watch me. The INS, he claimed, with what turned out to be grotesque irony, only aims to “terrorize people.” Though he lost in court, he remained defiant to the end. On September 5, 2001, his handpicked charter-revision committee ruled that New York could still require that its employees keep immigration information confidential to preserve trust between immigrants and government. Six days later, several visa-overstayers participated in the most devastating attack on the city and the country in history.
New York conveniently forgot the 1996 federal ban on sanctuary laws until a gang of five Mexicans—four of them illegal—abducted and brutally raped a 42-year-old mother of two near some railroad tracks in Queens. The NYPD had already arrested three of the illegal aliens numerous times for such crimes as assault, attempted robbery, criminal trespass, illegal gun possession, and drug offenses. The department had never notified the INS.
Citizen outrage forced Mayor Michael Bloomberg to revisit the city’s sanctuary decree yet again. In May 2003, Bloomberg tweaked the policy minimally to allow city staffers to inquire into immigration status only if it is relevant to the awarding of a government benefit. Though Bloomberg’s new rule said nothing about reporting immigration violations to federal officials, advocates immediately claimed that it did allow such reporting, and the ethnic lobbies went ballistic. “What we’re seeing is the erosion of people’s rights,” thundered Angelo Falcon of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund. After three months of intense agitation by immigrant groups, Bloomberg replaced this innocuous “don’t ask” policy with a “don’t tell” rule even broader than Gotham’s original sanctuary policy. The new rule prohibits city employees from giving other government officials information not just about immigration status but about tax payments, sexual orientation, welfare status, and other matters.
But even were immigrant-saturated cities to discard their sanctuary policies and start enforcing immigration violations where public safety demands it, the resource-starved immigration authorities couldn’t handle the overwhelming additional workload.
The chronic shortage of manpower to oversee, and detention space to house, aliens as they await their deportation hearings (or, following an order of removal from a federal judge, their actual deportation) has forced immigration officials to practice a constant triage. Long ago, the feds stopped trying to find and deport aliens who had “merely” entered the country illegally through stealth or fraudulent documents. Currently, the only types of illegal aliens who run any risk of catching federal attention are those who have been convicted of an “aggravated felony” (a particularly egregious crime) or who have been deported following conviction for an aggravated felony and who have reentered (an offense punishable with 20 years in jail).
That triage has been going on for a long time, as former INS investigator Mike Cutler, who worked with the NYPD catching Brooklyn drug dealers in the 1970s, explains. “If you arrested someone you wanted to detain, you’d go to your boss and start a bidding war,” Cutler recalls. “You’d say: 'My guy ran three blocks, threw a couple of punches, and had six pieces of ID.' The boss would turn to another agent: 'Next! Whaddid your guy do?' 'He ran 18 blocks, pushed over an old lady, and had a gun.' ” But such one-upmanship was usually fruitless. “Without the jail space,” explains Cutler, “it was like the Fish and Wildlife Service; you’d tag their ear and let them go.”
But even when immigration officials actually arrest someone, and even if a judge issues a final deportation order (usually after years of litigation and appeals), they rarely have the manpower to put the alien on a bus or plane and take him across the border. Second alternative: detain him pending removal. Again, inadequate space and staff. In the early 1990s, for example, 15 INS officers were in charge of the deportation of approximately 85,000 aliens (not all of them criminals) in New York City. The agency’s actual response to final orders of removal was what is known as a “run letter”—a notice asking the deportable alien kindly to show up in a month or two to be deported, when the agency might be able to process him. Results: in 2001, 87 percent of deportable aliens who received run letters disappeared, a number that was even higher—94 percent—if they were from terror-sponsoring countries.
To other law-enforcement agencies, the feds’ triage often looks like complete indifference to immigration violations. Testifying to Congress about the Queens rape by illegal Mexicans, New York’s criminal justice coordinator defended the city’s failure to notify the INS after the rapists’ previous arrests on the ground that the agency wouldn’t have responded anyway. “We have time and time again been unable to reach INS on the phone,” John Feinblatt said last February. “When we reach them on the phone, they require that we write a letter. When we write a letter, they require that it be by a superior.”
Criminal aliens also interpret the triage as indifference. John Mullaly a former NYPD homicide detective, estimates that 70 percent of the drug dealers and other criminals in Manhattan’s Washington Heights were illegal. Were Mullaly to threaten an illegal-alien thug in custody that his next stop would be El Salvador unless he cooperated, the criminal would just laugh, knowing that the INS would never show up. The message could not be clearer: this is a culture that can’t enforce its most basic law of entry. If policing’s broken-windows theory is correct, the failure to enforce one set of rules breeds overall contempt for the law.
The sheer number of criminal aliens overwhelmed an innovative program that would allow immigration officials to complete deportation hearings while a criminal was still in state or federal prison, so that upon his release he could be immediately ejected without taking up precious INS detention space. But the process, begun in 1988, immediately bogged down due to the numbers—in 2000, for example, nearly 30 percent of federal prisoners were foreign-born. The agency couldn’t find enough pro bono attorneys to represent such an army of criminal aliens (who have extensive due-process rights in contesting deportation) and so would have to request delay after delay. Or enough immigration judges would not be available. In 1997, the INS simply had no record of a whopping 36 percent of foreign-born inmates who had been released from federal and four state prisons without any review of their deportability. They included 1,198 aggravated felons, 80 of whom were soon re-arrested for new crimes.
Resource starvation is not the only reason for federal inaction. The INS was a creature of immigration politics, and INS district directors came under great pressure from local politicians to divert scarce resources into distribution of such “benefits” as permanent residency, citizenship, and work permits, and away from criminal or other investigations. In the late 1980s, for example, the INS refused to join an FBI task force against Haitian drug trafficking in Miami, fearing criticism for “Haitian-bashing.” In 1997, after Hispanic activists protested a much-publicized raid that netted nearly two dozen illegals, the Border Patrol said that it would no longer join Simi Valley, California, probation officers on home searches of illegal-alien-dominated gangs.
The disastrous Citizenship USA project of 1996 was a luminous case of politics driving the INS to sacrifice enforcement to “benefits.” When, in the early 1990s, the prospect of welfare reform drove immigrants to apply for citizenship in record numbers to preserve their welfare eligibility, the Clinton administration, seeing a political bonanza in hundreds of thousands of new welfare-dependent citizens, ordered the naturalization process radically expedited. Thanks to relentless administration pressure, processing errors in 1996 were 99 percent in New York and 90 percent in Los Angeles, and tens of thousands of aliens with criminal records, including for murder and armed robbery, were naturalized.
Another powerful political force, the immigration bar association, has won from Congress an elaborate set of due-process rights for criminal aliens that can keep them in the country indefinitely. Federal probation officers in Brooklyn are supervising two illegals—a Jordanian and an Egyptian with Saudi citizenship—who look “ready to blow up the Statue of Liberty,” according to a probation official, but the officers can’t get rid of them. The Jordanian had been caught fencing stolen Social Security and tax-refund checks; now he sells phone cards, which he uses himself to make untraceable calls. The Saudi’s offense: using a fraudulent Social Security number to get employment—a puzzlingly unnecessary scam, since he receives large sums from the Middle East, including from millionaire relatives. But intelligence links him to terrorism, so presumably he worked in order not to draw attention to himself. Currently, he changes his cell phone every month. Ordinarily such a minor offense would not be prosecuted, but the government, fearing that he had terrorist intentions, used whatever it had to put him in prison.
Now, probation officers desperately want to see the duo out of the country, but the two ex-cons have hired lawyers, who are relentlessly fighting their deportation. “Due process allows you to stay for years without an adjudication,” says a probation officer in frustration. “A regular immigration attorney can keep you in the country for three years, a high-priced one for ten.” In the meantime, Brooklyn probation officials are watching the bridges.
Even where immigration officials successfully nab and deport criminal aliens, the reality, says a former federal gang prosecutor, is that “they all come back. They can’t make it in Mexico.” The tens of thousands of illegal farmworkers and dishwashers who overpower U.S. border controls every year carry in their wake thousands of brutal assailants and terrorists who use the same smuggling industry and who benefit from the same irresistible odds: there are so many more of them than the Border Patrol.
For, of course, the government’s inability to keep out criminal aliens is part and parcel of its inability to patrol the border, period. For decades, the INS had as much effect on the migration of millions of illegals as a can tied to the tail of a tiger. And the immigrants themselves, despite the press cliché of hapless aliens living fearfully in the shadows, seemed to regard immigration authorities with all the concern of an elephant for a flea.
Certainly fear of immigration officers is not in evidence among the hundreds of illegal day laborers who hang out on Roosevelt Avenue in Queens, New York, in front of money wire services, travel agencies, immigration-attorney offices, and phone arcades, all catering to the local Hispanic population (as well as to drug dealers and terrorists). “There is no chance of getting caught,” cheerfully explains Rafael, an Ecuadoran. Like the dozen Ecuadorans and Mexicans on his particular corner, Rafael is hoping that an SUV seeking carpenters for $100 a day will show up soon. “We don’t worry, because we’re not doing anything wrong. I know it’s illegal; I need the papers, but here, nobody asks you for papers.”
Even the newly fortified Mexican border, the one spot where the government really tries to prevent illegal immigration, looms as only a minor inconvenience to the day laborers. The odds, they realize, are overwhelmingly in their favor. Miguel, a reserved young carpenter, crossed the border at Tijuana three years ago with 15 others. Border Patrol spotted them, but with six officers to 16 illegals, only five got caught. In illegal border crossings, you get what you pay for, Miguel says. If you try to shave on the fee, the coyotes will abandon you at the first problem. Miguel’s wife was flying into New York from Los Angeles that very day; it had cost him $2,200 to get her across the border. “Because I pay, I don’t worry,” he says complacently.
The only way to dampen illegal immigration and its attendant train of criminals and terrorists—short of an economic revolution in the sending countries or an impregnably militarized border—is to remove the jobs magnet. As long as migrants know they can easily get work, they will find ways to evade border controls. But enforcing laws against illegal labor is among government’s lowest priorities. In 2001, only 124 agents nationwide were trying to find and prosecute the hundreds of thousands of employers and millions of illegal aliens who violate the employment laws, the Associated Press reports.
Even were immigration officials to devote adequate resources to worksite investigations, not much would change, because their legal weapons are so weak. That’s no accident: though it is a crime to hire illegal aliens, a coalition of libertarians, business lobbies, and left-wing advocates has consistently blocked the fraud-proof form of work authorization necessary to enforce that ban. Libertarians have erupted in hysteria at such proposals as a toll-free number to the Social Security Administration for employers to confirm Social Security numbers. Hispanics warn just as stridently that helping employers verify work eligibility would result in discrimination against Hispanics—implicitly conceding that vast numbers of Hispanics work illegally.
The result: hiring practices in illegal-immigrant-saturated industries are a charade. Millions of illegal workers pretend to present valid documents, and thousands of employers pretend to believe them. The law doesn’t require the employer to verify that a worker is actually qualified to work, and as long as the proffered documents are not patently phony—scrawled with red crayon on a matchbook, say—the employer will nearly always be exempt from liability merely by having eyeballed them. To find an employer guilty of violating the ban on hiring illegal aliens, immigration authorities must prove that he knew he was getting fake papers—an almost insurmountable burden. Meanwhile, the market for counterfeit documents has exploded: in one month alone in 1998, immigration authorities seized nearly 2 million of them in Los Angeles, destined for immigrant workers, welfare seekers, criminals, and terrorists.
For illegal workers and employers, there is no downside to the employment charade. If immigration officials ever do try to conduct an industry-wide investigation—which will at least net the illegal employees, if not the employers—local congressmen will almost certainly head it off. An INS inquiry into the Vidalia-onion industry in Georgia was not only aborted by Georgia’s congressional delegation; it actually resulted in a local amnesty for the growers’ illegal workforce. The downside to complying with the spirit of the employment law, on the other hand, is considerable. Ethnic advocacy groups are ready to picket employers who dismiss illegal workers, and employers understandably fear being undercut by less scrupulous competitors.
Of the incalculable changes in American politics, demographics, and culture that the continuing surge of migrants is causing, one of the most profound is the breakdown of the distinction between legal and illegal entry. Everywhere, illegal aliens receive free public education and free medical care at taxpayer expense; 13 states offer them driver’s licenses. States everywhere have been pushed to grant illegal aliens college scholarships and reduced in-state tuition. One hundred banks, over 800 law-enforcement agencies, and dozens of cities accept an identification card created by Mexico to credentialize illegal Mexican aliens in the U.S. The Bush administration has given its blessing to this matricula consular card, over the strong protest of the FBI, which warns that the gaping security loopholes that the card creates make it a boon to money launderers, immigrant smugglers, and terrorists. Border authorities have already caught an Iranian man sneaking across the border this year, Mexican matricula card in hand.
Hispanic advocates have helped blur the distinction between a legal and an illegal resident by asserting that differentiating the two is an act of irrational bigotry. Arrests of illegal aliens inside the border now inevitably spark protests, often led by the Mexican government, that feature signs calling for “no más racismo.” Immigrant advocates use the language of “human rights” to appeal to an authority higher than such trivia as citizenship laws. They attack the term “amnesty” for implicitly acknowledging the validity of borders. Indeed, grouses Illinois congressman Luis Gutierrez, “There’s an implication that somehow you did something wrong and you need to be forgiven.”
Illegal aliens and their advocates speak loudly about what they think the U.S. owes them, not vice versa. “I believe they have a right . . . to work, to drive their kids to school,” said California assemblywoman Sarah Reyes. An immigration agent says that people he stops “get in your face about their rights, because our failure to enforce the law emboldens them.” Taking this idea to its extreme, Joaqu_n Avila, a UCLA Chicano studies professor and law lecturer, argues that to deny non-citizens the vote, especially in the many California cities where they constitute the majority, is a form of apartheid.
Yet no poll has ever shown that Americans want more open borders. Quite the reverse. By a huge majority—at least 60 percent—they want to rein in immigration, and they endorse an observation that Senator Alan Simpson made 20 years ago: Americans “are fed up with efforts to make them feel that [they] do not have that fundamental right of any people—to decide who will join them and help form the future country in which they and their posterity will live.” But if the elites’ and the advocates’ idea of giving voting rights to non-citizen majorities catches on—and don’t be surprised if it does—Americans could be faced with the ultimate absurdity of people outside the social compact making rules for those inside it.
However the nation ultimately decides to rationalize its chaotic and incoherent immigration system, surely all can agree that, at a minimum, authorities should expel illegal-alien criminals swiftly. Even on the grounds of protecting non-criminal illegal immigrants, we should start by junking sanctuary policies. By stripping cops of what may be their only immediate tool to remove felons from the community, these policies leave law-abiding immigrants prey to crime.
But the non-enforcement of immigration laws in general has an even more destructive effect. In many immigrant communities, assimilation into gangs seems to be outstripping assimilation into civic culture. Toddlers are learning to flash gang signals and hate the police, reports the Los Angeles Times. In New York City, “every high school has its Mexican gang,” and most 12- to 14-year-olds have already joined, claims Ernesto Vega, an illegal 18-year-old Mexican. Such pathologies only worsen when the first lesson that immigrants learn about U.S. law is that Americans don’t bother to enforce it. “Institutionalizing illegal immigration creates a mindset in people that anything goes in the U.S.,” observes Patrick Ortega, the news and public-affairs director of Radio Nueva Vida in southern California. “It creates a new subculture, with a sequela of social ills.” It is broken windows writ large.
For the sake of immigrants and native-born Americans alike, it’s time to decide what our immigration policy is—and enforce it. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by DrGunt
LOL, you're a moron, right? |
thats your answer !?
if so then look who's talking |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
i don't think so ....how could i hate mexicans and sponcer a mexican to be a citizen ? |
I'm sorry, I don't usually correct small spelling mistakes, but "sponcer" is just so fucking far from the word I have to call you on that...
LMFAO |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
How many Americans are killed by other American citizens each day, fucktard?
Please climb to the top of your roof and help natural selection by jumping to your death....
<----you |
ok, so why add to the problem and mexico won't even send these murderers back here to be held accountable but they demand that we send that bounty hunter dude who caught max factor aire who is now in jail |
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| DrGunt |
OK, what wacko right-wing site did you swipe that from?
link, please!!! |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by DrGunt
OK, what wacko right-wing site did you swipe that from?
link, please!!! |
right wing site..why not look it up for yourself doushe bag...prove me wrong... |
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| DrGunt |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
right wing site..why not look it up for yourself doushe bag...prove me wrong... |
You're an idiot. Your sources are bullshit. Your arguments are moronic. YOU SPELL LIKE SHIT WHEN FIREFOX HAS SPELLCHECK!!! Get the fuck out of my sight!!! |
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| patcracker |
Is DUDEHERE the new Redeye?
:stupid: |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by DrGunt
You're an idiot. Your sources are bullshit. Your arguments are moronic. YOU SPELL LIKE SHIT WHEN FIREFOX HAS SPELLCHECK!!! Get the fuck out of my sight!!! |
how do i turn on teh spell check in firefox ..please find me other sources then please if not , shut the fuck up |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
ok, so why add to the problem and mexico won't even send these murderers back here to be held accountable but they demand that we send that bounty hunter dude who caught max factor aire who is now in jail |
Our "friend" Saudi Arabia won't extradite known terrorists to America!
And the question you cannot answer is how Bush's plan would actually stop this from happening? Republicans don't want to send any of these people home because they LOVE that cheap labor....
Get a clue, idiot. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Our "friend" Saudi Arabia won't extradite known terrorists to America!
And the question you cannot answer is how Bush's plan would actually stop this from happening? Republicans don't want to send any of these people home because they LOVE that cheap labor....
Get a clue, idiot. |
you an idiot ...again prove me wrong |
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| DrGunt |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
how do i turn on teh spell check in firefox ..please find me other sources then please if not , shut the fuck up |
In the spirit of bi-partisanship, I will extend my hand across the aisle . . . . and smack some sense into you. You seem like a nice guy. Don't be a hater. We both want a strong America. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by DrGunt
In the spirit of bi-partisanship, I will extend my hand across the aisle . . . . and smack some sense into you. You seem like a nice guy. Don't be a hater. We both want a strong America. |
again, tell me how to turn on spell check on firefox and prove me wrong about the issue |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
you an idiot ...again prove me wrong |
Prove WHAT wrong?
There are at least 16,000 murders in the US every year. That is a murder every 30 minutes.
How many of those were committed by illegal aliens? |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Prove WHAT wrong?
There are at least 16,000 murders in the US every year. That is a murder every 30 minutes.
How many of those were committed by illegal aliens? |
about 1800 or more |
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| Ass Boil |
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp
Quote:
95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
This figure also appears (unsourced) in Heather Mac Donald's testimony before the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security, and Claims:
In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide in the first half of 2004 (which totaled 1,200 to 1,500) targeted illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) were for illegal aliens.
Even if the statistic is accurate, however, it is subject to a variety of interpretations. For example, illegal aliens might be disproportionately represented by outstanding homicide warrants in Los Angeles because they are more likely to flee the jurisdiction before their cases are adjudicated than legal residents are (not necessarily because they commit a far greater share of the homicides in Los Angeles). This interpretation is supported by a University of California Davis summary of immigration issues that notes:
The Los Angeles Police Department has a 12-year old Foreign Prosecution Unit that pursues suspects who fled the US after committing crimes in Los Angeles and gives testimony when they are prosecuted aboard. The United States does not have extradition treaties with most Latin American countries but many countries, for example, Mexico, Nicaragua or El Salvador try suspects for murder and other violent crimes committed in the US.
The Foreign Prosecution Unit was founded in 1985, after a study found that nearly half of the LAPD's outstanding arrest warrants involved Mexican nationals who were presumed to have fled the country. The FPU works with Interpol to find suspects who flee abroad and then prepares the evidence so that the person can be arrested and prosecuted. The FPU clears about one-third of its cases, compared to two-thirds of all homicide cases in Los Angeles.
The Mexican consulate in Los Angeles has a representative of the Mexican attorney general's office to work with the FPU in prosecuting suspects in Mexico for crimes committed in Los Angeles.
-------------------------------
75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
The Los Angeles Police Department's "Most Wanted" list is viewable on-line, but since each entry generally includes only the ethnicity of a suspect (not his or her immigration status or nationality), and many of the entries refer to persons of unknown identity, it's difficult to verify the claim that 75% of the people listed therein are illegal aliens.
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| DUDE-HERE |
AND LOWER DOWN IT STATES
The various figures quoted above were not taken from a 2002 Los Angeles Times article. They appear to have been gleaned from a variety of sources and vary in accuracy as noted below:
DOESN'T MAKE IT NOT TRUE...THEY ARE STATING THE NUMBERS VARY..THEY DIDN'T SAY IT WASN'T TRUE... |
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| polititees.com |
Quote: Originally posted by DrGunt
You're implying all immigrants are criminals. That is not true. That is racist. |
All illegal aliens are criminals. They are here "illegally". Got it? |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by polititees.com
All illegal aliens are criminals. They are here "illegally". Got it? |
thats true...but what crimes did they commit in mehico |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
about 1800 or more |
Get your fucking priorities straight, asshole....
How many of those murders can be attributed to Republican refusals to address the gun problem we have in this country? |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Get your fucking priorities straight, asshole....
How many of those murders can be attributed to Republican refusals to address the gun problem we have in this country? |
the gun problem...why these illegals won't buy guns from illegal sources...they buy guns at ligit gun stores..there you go again..taking the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens doesn't get the illegal guns off the street. |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
AND LOWER DOWN IT STATES
The various figures quoted above were not taken from a 2002 Los Angeles Times article. They appear to have been gleaned from a variety of sources and vary in accuracy as noted below:
DOESN'T MAKE IT NOT TRUE...THEY ARE STATING THE NUMBERS VARY..THEY DIDN'T SAY IT WASN'T TRUE... |
Exactly, idiot. And I never claimed there were no murders by illegal immigrants.
Republicans can stop illegal immigration any time they want to crack down on the companies who hire them..... They refuse to do so because those companies are friends of the Republicans.... |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Exactly, idiot. And I never claimed there were no murders by illegal immigrants.
Republicans can stop illegal immigration any time they want to crack down on the companies who hire them..... They refuse to do so because those companies are friends of the Republicans.... |
i would love if they would and some places they are like hazelton PA. i know i called like 10 repub senators and gave them my opinion..i called boxer, harmon and finestein too |
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| Kill Van Kull |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
you can expect more of this with demorats incharged. i don't agree with Bush on this issue and nor do many republicans . these murdereres are the dems voting base. they did try and get inmates rights to vote |
DUDE, you gotta stop the drugs.
They're turning your brain into mush.
;) |
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| con2cor |
sad shit poor girls family :(
send all the beaners home no card no deal
i think dummies fence will work
right |
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| kali |
DUDE-HERE
Location: VENICE, CA
racist |
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| spankysxxx |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
you can expect more of this with demorats incharged. i don't agree with Bush on this issue and nor do many republicans . these murdereres are the dems voting base. they did try and get inmates rights to vote |
So I get it, I guess illegal immigrants have a lock on murdering stupid bitches with big mouths. Only 700 miles of that fence left to build huh? |
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| Reed Rothchild |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
. these murdereres are the dems voting base. |
So all we have to do to get all Dems and Liberals out to vote is get Hilary Clinton to kill someone on camera? Cool, will send her that info right now. Maybe she can do it on the Senate floor. |
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| Robinsmuff |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
you can expect more of this with demorats incharged. i don't agree with Bush on this issue and nor do many republicans . these murdereres are the dems voting base. they did try and get inmates rights to vote |
Are you retarded? No, really, are you retarded? I already knew you were stupid, but I am now certain you are a barely functional retard. This is anything but a partisan issue. Trust me as some one in the employment industry I am on the front lines of this issue, & our organiztions which range from NATS, US Mfg Guild, & the Chamber of commerce, have donated less than 20% of our dollars to any Democrats. Yet we are all making billions of dollars on the cheap immigrant labor.
Here is the reality that you are to stupid to grasp. On the left you have the hispanic activist that want an open border with an easier access to legal residency & citizenship. On the right you have big business who preach daily that we are in a global economy & that they need the cheap labor to compete. On the left you have the unions & other low skilled workers who feel as though the illegal work force is lowering their wages. On the right you have cultural conservatives who are afraid of anyone who looks different & fear losing their Country. The idea that this is a GOP vs Dem issue is laughable. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by kali
DUDE-HERE
Location: VENICE, CA
racist |
you can call me a racist..but prove to me where i am a racist |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by spankysxxx
So I get it, I guess illegal immigrants have a lock on murdering stupid bitches with big mouths. Only 700 miles of that fence left to build huh? |
yup 700 miles to go ..i guess people really don't care about this issue until it affects them directly. don't worry soon cali's problem will be back east. if it is not there already . |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
i would love if they would and some places they are like hazelton PA. i know i called like 10 repub senators and gave them my opinion..i called boxer, harmon and finestein too |
You are such an idiot on this subject, it just blows my mind.
The left wants the Bush administration to enforce the laws that already exist to make it so corporations cannot hire these illegals, and would create a situation where there is no reason for them to come here, because they would not be able to get jobs.
The right wants to build a fucking idiotic fence, but NOT enforce the laws already in place to crack down on employers who hire illegals....
Which one makes more sense to you, retard? Using laws already in place that could stop the flow of illegals, or spending billions on a fence that will do nothing about the employers who hire these people?
Use your fucking head for once in your life, idiot..... |
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| spankysxxx |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
yup 700 miles to go ..i guess people really don't care about this issue until it affects them directly. don't worry soon cali's problem will be back east. if it is not there already . |
Why do you suppose that Mr. Bush decided to only do the 500? I mean, does he want to build a fence or a partitian? |
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| spankysxxx |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
You are such an idiot on this subject, it just blows my mind.
The left wants the Bush administration to enforce the laws that already exist to make it so corporations cannot hire these illegals, and would create a situation where there is no reason for them to come here, because they would not be able to get jobs.
The right wants to build a fucking idiotic fence, but NOT enforce the laws already in place to crack down on employers who hire illegals....
Which one makes more sense to you, retard? Using laws already in place that could stop the flow of illegals, or spending billions on a fence that will do nothing about the employers who hire these people?
Use your fucking head for once in your life, idiot..... |
How about a program to help women understand when they're getting themselves into a fight they can't protect themselves from? Sorry, I'm a developer and have had to deal with some wacky female tenants. "Shhhh, can you keep it down, my baby is sleeping" "when are you going to be done" "I'm calling the city on you...you can't make all this noise", "Can you do something for me while you're here".... sorry, venting. "I'm not responsible for the downstairs water damage just because I stuffed the toilet with too much paper and didn't know how to shut it off" |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by spankysxxx
How about a program to help women understand when they're getting themselves into a fight they can't protect themselves from? Sorry, I'm a developer and have had to deal with some wacky female tenants. "Shhhh, can you keep it down, my baby is sleeping" "when are you going to be done" "I'm calling the city on you...you can't make all this noise", "Can you do something for me while you're here".... sorry, venting. "I'm not responsible for the downstairs water damage just because I stuffed the toilet with too much paper and didn't know how to shut it off" |
I sympathize, but that is not a solution to what DOUCHE-HERE is really complaining about. If we got rid of all the Mexicans. as he is trying to do, there would still be women getting murdered. He has already admitted that MAYBE 1800 of the 16,000 plus murders in the US every year are committed by illegals... he is dumb enough to think a fence will stop an actress from being murdered.
You seem to be complaining about women acting like... well, WOMEN.... ;) |
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| spankysxxx |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
I sympathize, but that is not a solution to what DOUCHE-HERE is really complaining about. If we got rid of all the Mexicans. as he is trying to do, there would still be women getting murdered. He has already admitted that MAYBE 1800 of the 16,000 plus murders in the US every year are committed by illegals... he is dumb enough to think a fence will stop an actress from being murdered.
You seem to be complaining about women acting like... well, WOMEN.... ;) |
EXACTLY! Building a complete fence and even increasing the height by 20 feet and then wrapping it around the entire U.S. isn't going to make a dent in the murder rate. That woman didn't deserve what she got, however I do believe he may have been provoked. I'm just saying... |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by spankysxxx
EXACTLY! Building a complete fence and even increasing the height by 20 feet and then wrapping it around the entire U.S. isn't going to make a dent in the murder rate. That woman didn't deserve what she got, however I do believe he may have been provoked. I'm just saying... |
No one "provokes" someone to kill them. It is up to the other human being to remember that murder is wrong and that no matter how much you might want to kill someone, it is immoral and criminal....
Try using that provocation defense in court if you think I'm wrong... ;) |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
I sympathize, but that is not a solution to what DOUCHE-HERE is really complaining about. If we got rid of all the Mexicans. as he is trying to do, there would still be women getting murdered. He has already admitted that MAYBE 1800 of the 16,000 plus murders in the US every year are committed by illegals... he is dumb enough to think a fence will stop an actress from being murdered.
You seem to be complaining about women acting like... well, WOMEN.... ;) |
all mexicans..ya see thats the problem right there. i say illegals and you say all mexicans.. not all mexicans are illegal. i am talking about all illegals ..lets get rid of them. dry up the jobs and they will go home and our los angeles hospitals can stop going out of business |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
all mexicans..ya see thats the problem right there. i say illegals and you say all mexicans.. not all mexicans are illegal. i am talking about all illegals ..lets get rid of them. dry up the jobs and they will go home and our los angeles hospitals can stop going out of business |
Then why the fuck are you advocating this waste of money on a fence?
The laws already exist to fix the problem - it only takes Bush having the balls to enforce them against his corporate buddies...
And why did you start this thread claiming the left will make the problem worse when more illegals have entered this country under reagan and Bush than anyone else? |
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| polititees.com |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
No one "provokes" someone to kill them. It is up to the other human being to remember that murder is wrong and that no matter how much you might want to kill someone, it is immoral and criminal....
Try using that provocation defense in court if you think I'm wrong... ;) |
I couldn't agree more with you for once, so why are you blaming it on guns instead of the criminals who use them? |
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| polititees.com |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Then why the fuck are you advocating this waste of money on a fence?
The laws already exist to fix the problem - it only takes Bush having the balls to enforce them against his corporate buddies...
And why did you start this thread claiming the left will make the problem worse when more illegals have entered this country under reagan and Bush than anyone else? |
There is a duality with this problem. The assholes like Bush want cheap labor for their corporate buddies, and you and Poleosi want them here to put on the government tit so they will vote for you and you know it. I mean you are ignorant and misguided, but I doubt you are that stupid. |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by polititees.com
I couldn't agree more with you for once, so why are you blaming it on guns instead of the criminals who use them? |
I'm not blaming it on "guns"... I own guns and have no problem with gun ownership. I just think there is no reason for someone to own a 50 caliber sniper rifle or a machine gun...
I think guns should be much harder for people to get and gun crimes should be punished much more so than minor drug crimes.... |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by polititees.com
There is a duality with this problem. The assholes like Bush want cheap labor for their corporate buddies, and you and Poleosi want them here to put on the government tit so they will vote for you and you know it. I mean you are ignorant and misguided, but I doubt you are that stupid. |
Where is your evidence for that imaginary position you have created for Pelosi? |
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| acefree |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Then why the fuck are you advocating this waste of money on a fence?
The laws already exist to fix the problem - it only takes Bush having the balls to enforce them against his corporate buddies...
And why did you start this thread claiming the left will make the problem worse when more illegals have entered this country under reagan and Bush than anyone else? |
i agree with u in part. fine the employers. i get confused when congress debates it. its aleady the law.
but ALSO we should have a fence anyways. drug dealers, criminals, and terrorist use that open border to come here too. |
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| polititees.com |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
I'm not blaming it on "guns"... I own guns and have no problem with gun ownership. I just think there is no reason for someone to own a 50 caliber sniper rifle or a machine gun...
I think guns should be much harder for people to get and gun crimes should be punished much more so than minor drug crimes.... |
Really, are you going to make the case that more people are killed with 50 cal sniper rifles and AR15's than with handguns and shotguns? If so, you need to check the statistics and you will see that it is not the case. Minus the few high profile cases such as the one in LA with the bank robbers who copied the movie Heat and a few others, those types of cases are rare. |
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| polititees.com |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Where is your evidence for that imaginary position you have created for Pelosi? |
Are you, for the record, denying that Pelosi supports amnesty for illegal aliens? |
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| acefree |
Quote: Originally posted by polititees.com
There is a duality with this problem. The assholes like Bush want cheap labor for their corporate buddies, and you and Poleosi want them here to put on the government tit so they will vote for you and you know it. I mean you are ignorant and misguided, but I doubt you are that stupid. |
why dont u be honest. both sides want the votes. its a fact. and to blame pelosi for the weak border when u guys had 6 years to do anything u wanted on the border, and have done nothing, is kind of insane.
sorry to disagree with u both. i know it ruins this forum with someone thinks for themself |
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