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Red Dawn- Circa 1980's
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| Red Dawn- Circa 1980's
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| Abba |
I was sick with the Flu all weekend and spent alot of time on the couch with my wife watching movies on my Plasma. Thankfully, we're liberal with what we record on our DVR, and one of the movies we had was Red Dawn. If you've never seen it, it stars Patrick Swayze and Charlie Sheen and a few other B actors.
The movie's about a Soviet-Cuban-Latin invasion of the United States and the high school students who fight them. One of the most interesting chords that struck me was the similarity between the fictional movie and our debacle in Iraq.
Red Dawn portrays a guerilla war against the invaders using what can easily be called terrorist tactics, including IED's, bombing civilian facilities, ambushes, etc. Of course, the Rebels are the heroes fighting off a foreign invader.
It's interesting that now WE'RE the invaders and those that fight against us are called terrorists and "the bad guys". What's truly sad is that our American psyche has traditionally been geared towards rooting for the defending underdog, and yet as we embarked on this war of agression, of invasion, unprovoked, we forgot our basic National morality and espoused the very qualities we so reviled in our enemies.
I recommend this movie for anyone who thinks they have an opinion on Iraq. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
| man you really are dumb |
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| tom sizemore |
| Abba the US has never stood on any solid moral ground the debacle in Irag is just another example of this. |
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| billydwilliams |
| damn fine movie |
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| thoroldjames |
I love that fuckin movie.
WOLVERINESSSSSSS
I'm a loser :D |
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| thoroldjames |
Will say, I always find it funny that we were at one point so afraid of the Soviets(even the Cubans).
Only to find out a few years later they were a bloody mess. |
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| SaintJimmy |
I take exception to this post.
C. Thomas Howell is not a "B" actor.
I think he proved that in that movie where he puts on shoe polish and goes to college as a black dude.
Move over, De Niro. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
man you really are dumb |
YOU GET A GOLD STAR!!!!!
All five words spelled correctly, and in the right order to form an intelligible sentence.
I won't mention punctuation. Let's work on one thing at a time.
Good job!!!!!
Here's a treat. :shit: |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
I take exception to this post.
C. Thomas Howell is not a "B" actor.
I think he proved that in that movie where he puts on shoe polish and goes to college as a black dude.
Move over, De Niro. |
I stand corrected sir. you are correct.
oh, and duke here, shut the fuck up. I think you're in the vast minority, dildo wannabe. |
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| DUDE-HERE |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
I take exception to this post.
C. Thomas Howell is not a "B" actor.
I think he proved that in that movie where he puts on shoe polish and goes to college as a black dude.
Move over, De Niro. |
THATS what i was thinking none of them were B actors when that was made....
WOVARINES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| curleydan |
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
I love that fuckin movie.
WOLVERINESSSSSSS
I'm a loser :D |
agreeance, that movie is greatness!!! |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by curleydan
agreeance, that movie is greatness!!! |
And not only is it highly entertaining, but it also illustrates to what lengths Americans would go to to free their land from a foreign invader, including the EXACT same tactics used by the "insurgents" in Iraq that we so easily and vocally condemn.
That movie should be required viewing in high-school, because if anything it'll help raise a generation of Americans who will have at least some faint modicum of what it's like to be occupied by a foreign invader. Unfortunately, our Nation is so unfamiliar with the hardships that others endure, at times by our own hands, that our actions have occasiionally made us as cruel as any of our most ardent foes. |
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| bushleaguer |
Ha, I remember this movie.
One thing the film points out that is relevant is that the invaders in the film believed that they were doing something positive for those they invaded. If you recall the scenes from the "re-education camps," they are running propaganda films on the drive-in screen and are bashing Western values and economic inequality. So it's interesting to compare our mission to bring democracy to the oppressed in Iraq and how that can spawn a negative reaction, no matter what our intentions. If you put yourself in the shoes of the Iraqi people, they are going to resent an outside force pushing their way of life on them no matter what. Imagine if we were invaded by Communists who wanted to "save" us from the evils of capitalism. I don't think anyone...even the poorest of the poor....would greet them as "liberators." |
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| Timmy |
| Cold war movies are funny shit when you watch them now. Pick up "the day after" some time. |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by Timmy
Cold war movies are funny shit when you watch them now. Pick up "the day after" some time. |
Seen it. My favorite part is when they try to hide in the VW. The effects were terrible, though. Red Dawn does capture the psychology, though. |
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| thoroldjames |
Quote: Originally posted by Timmy
Cold war movies are funny shit when you watch them now. Pick up "the day after" some time. |
was re-aired on ABC not too long ago.
I remember being scared shitless watching it when it came out, good stuff.
And Abba is correct.
We'd all do whatever it took to free ourselves from a foreign invader that was much more powerful.
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
was re-aired on ABC not too long ago.
I remember being scared shitless watching it when it came out, good stuff.
And Abba is correct.
We'd all do whatever it took to free ourselves from a foreign invader that was much more powerful. |
Yet, when we partake in the same invading behavior, those who would fight against us are branded terrorists, blah blah blah. |
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| bushleaguer |
Quote: Originally posted by Timmy
Cold war movies are funny shit when you watch them now. Pick up "the day after" some time. |
Another good one. I remember watching that when it first aired on network tv....scared the crap out of me. |
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| curleydan |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
And not only is it highly entertaining, but it also illustrates to what lengths Americans would go to to free their land from a foreign invader, including the EXACT same tactics used by the "insurgents" in Iraq that we so easily and vocally condemn.
That movie should be required viewing in high-school, because if anything it'll help raise a generation of Americans who will have at least some faint modicum of what it's like to be occupied by a foreign invader. Unfortunately, our Nation is so unfamiliar with the hardships that others endure, at times by our own hands, that our actions have occasiionally made us as cruel as any of our most ardent foes. |
so i guess its just not possible to say "i watched red dawn this weekend and forgot how much i enjoyed it in my younger days" and be the end of it. all this thread is designed to do is be a cover for you to further bash america under the guise that the insurgents are charlie sheen and patrick swayze in turbans. while i have to give you creativity points, why tease us with movie talk and just retitle your thread to "i hate america, americans, and any and all things that can be associated with america"? |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by curleydan
so i guess its just not possible to say "i watched red dawn this weekend and forgot how much i enjoyed it in my younger days" and be the end of it. all this thread is designed to do is be a cover for you to further bash america under the guise that the insurgents are charlie sheen and patrick swayze in turbans. while i have to give you creativity points, why tease us with movie talk and just retitle your thread to "i hate america, americans, and any and all things that can be associated with america"? |
Well, big fella, that's the kind of critisism you invite when you invade other countries illegally.
I don't hate America - just the three square feet of it that you occupy. :D |
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| curleydan |
fine, be angry at america all you want, just dont try to make me think this is movie talk. i like talking movies, i dont like being unknowingly sucked into a why our troops are evil and america sucks thread.
and dont fool yourself, you hate all of america except the three feet of it you occupy. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by curleydan
fine, be angry at america all you want, just dont try to make me think this is movie talk. i like talking movies, i dont like being unknowingly sucked into a why our troops are evil and america sucks thread.
and dont fool yourself, you hate all of america except the three feet of it you occupy. |
Please, son.
You know nothing.
Your shitty little fucking tactic of questioning anyone's patriotism who disagrees with you only exposes you for what you are - a right-wing parrot.
It is also obvious from your posts that you not only missed the point of the movie, but you also missed the point of this thread.
You might be dumber than DooDoo-Here. :rolleyes: |
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| patcracker |
so i guess its just not possible to say "i watched red dawn this weekend and forgot how much i enjoyed it in my younger days" and be the end of it. all this thread is designed to do is be a cover for you to further bash america under the guise that the insurgents are charlie sheen and patrick swayze in turbans. while i have to give you creativity points, why tease us with movie talk and just retitle your thread to "i hate america, americans, and any and all things that can be associated with america"?
Wow, you show that we made a mistake and the thought behind it and you are labeled un-American. I dont hate America but I can understand what point Abba is saying here. So what you are saying is if America was invaded you would not act like this cheesey movie from the 80's? Do you rememeber the 80's? The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Isreal bombing Iraq's Nuclear ambitions, Shakey economy, the Cold war, etc;.... Alot of paranoia, a senile President. |
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| curleydan |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
Please, son.
You know nothing.
Your shitty little fucking tactic of questioning anyone's patriotism who disagrees with you only exposes you for what you are - a right-wing parrot.
It is also obvious from your posts that you not only missed the point of the movie, but you also missed the point of this thread.
You might be dumber than DooDoo-Here. :rolleyes: |
i didnt miss the point of anything. this thread is designed to portray the poor little iraqis as the davids struggling to win their freedom from the big nasy evil american goliath. and thats just pure hogwash, dad. these poor iraqi freedom fighters were not concerned one bit with fighting for freedom until america gave it to them. these insurgents dont give a rip about their country, they just want to kill americans and if given the chance would love to set up their next ied down at the mall. |
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| curleydan |
Quote: Originally posted by patcracker
so i guess its just not possible to say "i watched red dawn this weekend and forgot how much i enjoyed it in my younger days" and be the end of it. all this thread is designed to do is be a cover for you to further bash america under the guise that the insurgents are charlie sheen and patrick swayze in turbans. while i have to give you creativity points, why tease us with movie talk and just retitle your thread to "i hate america, americans, and any and all things that can be associated with america"?
Wow, you show that we made a mistake and the thought behind it and you are labeled un-American. I dont hate America but I can understand what point Abba is saying here. So what you are saying is if America was invaded you would not act like this cheesey movie from the 80's? Do you rememeber the 80's? The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Isreal bombing Iraq's Nuclear ambitions, Shakey economy, the Cold war, etc;.... Alot of paranoia, a senile President. |
i remember the 80's and i remember this movie and it has -zero- to do with iraq today. if you want to say the iraqi insurgents are freedom loving heros, then you have to say the converse and that would be america and our brave troops who are being killed by these insurgents are evil bastards. but what none of you have figured out yet is that iraq wasnt free when we went in. and none of these insurgents were intrested in doing anything about that until we gave them freedom. |
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| patcracker |
Dear Douche bag,
I served in the US Army in the 80's. Do you know what poster the Army had on every wall in our work areas was? "Know your enemy". Im not flying an Iraqi flag in front of my house. I dont posses a Koran. But I do know this. The Iraqi's Dont want us there. If you have read anything on counter insurgencey then you know that we have made huge mistakes that cannot be righted. Now back to the parallels of Red Dawn and the quagmire known as Iraq , they are eerily simular. But I guess if your only source of news is FoxNews than you are not stepped in reality. And just a nugget for your infomation, did you know that all the hires for the CPA in Iraq were not about your qualifications but your allegance to the republican party and more importantly George Bush. That is just plain stupid. The CPA holds the biggest responcebility for the inssurgencey today. |
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| DREAD |
Red Dawn and Iraq have zero in common Abba-
ZERO.
Terrorist...Patriots
Modern Culture......Backwards Culture
Innocent School Kids......Terrorist Extremists
Don't forget we made guerrilla warfare *chic* against the Brits-
The difference is, if all of the terrorists stopped in Iraq, Iraq would proposer and grow and be peaceful. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by curleydan
i didnt miss the point of anything. this thread is designed to portray the poor little iraqis as the davids struggling to win their freedom from the big nasy evil american goliath. and thats just pure hogwash, dad. these poor iraqi freedom fighters were not concerned one bit with fighting for freedom until america gave it to them. these insurgents dont give a rip about their country, they just want to kill americans and if given the chance would love to set up their next ied down at the mall. |
The point, as I saw it, was to try to get somone like you to feel some sort of empathy for an occupied people, be they Iraqi, or American.
The post even goes through the trouble of pointing out that the invaders DIDN'T HAVE EVIL INTENTIONS - for your benefit, even though you missed it.
You sitting there at your keyboard assuming what everyone wants and what everyone knows.......when in fact, you don't know shit.
You don't know shit about what the insurgents want.
You don't know shit about what the Iraqis want.
You don't know shit about what I want, or know.
You don't know shit. Period.
Here's a little hint: Quit assuming what other people think and want. It makes you look really stupid, and discourages others from giving your thoughts any respect at all.
See there? I can be nice, too. I just tried to help you. :D |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by DREAD
Red Dawn and Iraq have zero in common Abba-
ZERO.
Terrorist...Patriots
Modern Culture......Backwards Culture
Innocent School Kids......Terrorist Extremists
Don't forget we made guerrilla warfare *chic* against the Brits-
The difference is, if all of the terrorists stopped in Iraq, Iraq would proposer and grow and be peaceful. |
Sorry Dread, but you're not connecting the dots completely.
Iraqis don't subscribe to the same Liberal traditions we do.
Terrorists=Patriots. the only difference is who's reporting on it and who's writing the history books. If you're locked into ONE mindset and fail to see the perspective of the other, you're simply doomed to repeat the infinate mistakes of humanity throughout our species' history.
They DON"T LIKE US. They haven't for a while. Why would ANYONE think that Iraq would embrace massive, unbending, callous and inhuman de-Baathification when ANYONE who wanted to work in Saddam Hussein's Iraq HAD TO HAVE BAATHIST CREDENTIALS??!? From the highest level technocrat in the Oil ministry to the humble 2nd grade school teacher, everyone had to be Baathist. We took all those people and told them they have no future, no prospects, and no place in Iraq.
Then we took the Iraqi Army of 1 million strong and completely destroyed them. Even though they put up a weak fight ON PURPOSE against the US Military and hadn't been paid in months and were forming up in units to serve the new Saddam-less Iraq, the ready to be hung for treason Paul Bremer completely disbanded them without the $20.00 emergency pay they were promised, all while failing to secure their weapons or offer them any kind of employement.
Iraq pre-Gulf war 1 was one of the most literate nations on earth. The ratio of engineers and scientists in that society was higher than many western nations. Every Iraqi was entitled to superb world class Health and Dental Care for FREE.
In 1990, Kuwait was drilling sideways into Iraqi fields. Grievances filed at the UN went completely ignored. Then, Kuwait began dumping alot of excess oil on the market dropping the price per barrel and severely hurting Iraq, who incidentally was trying to recover from a devastating proxy war they fought for us against Iran. Again, we did nothing.
Then, we hit Iraq with massive sanctions and further screw the Iraqi people for the next decade. Millions suffer as the economy grows stagnant and things like medicine and foods are denied to the Iraqis.
Even after all the shit we put them through, they gave us the benefit of the doubt for the most part after our invasion. Instead of making their lives better, we let looting run rampant while our soldiers watch and the idiot SecDef in charge says "freedom's messy". Iraqis sit patiently while we dithered around and those contracted to to reconstruction projects brought in foreigners (Americans) to rebuild the country while Iraqis were DESPERATE for work. The electricity stayed off. The water TRICKLED out of the tap. We abducted thousands of innocent Iraqis from their homes in the middle of the night without apparent reason, without any recourse for the families. our poorly-trained soldiers disrespected tens of thousands of families and in particular, Iraqi women while their husbands and fathers watched in despair.
In appearance as well as in fact, we paid the most attention to the OIL.
To the Iraqis, WE are the bad guys. To many of the "insurgents", Iraqis who aid us are the Bad Guys. Their mission is to make US FAIL. They are winning.
Be a little objective as I know you to be. Step outside the Patina of all that you are and address it honestly. When an educated AND unemployed engineer puts down his useless pen and calculator and picks up some electronics and builds a detonator, The United States has FAILED it's mission, and the "terrorists" have won. |
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| curleydan |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
The point, as I saw it, was to try to get somone like you to feel some sort of empathy for an occupied people, be they Iraqi, or American. |
no it wasnt, the point was to say we are evil and the iraqis are heros. plain and simple.
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
The post even goes through the trouble of pointing out that the invaders DIDN'T HAVE EVIL INTENTIONS - for your benefit, even though you missed it. |
what version of red dawn did you and abba watch? the version where the communists didnt round up all the men in the town and put them in a concentration camp to brain wash them. the version where the communists didnt make men dig their own graves and then murder them in front of other townspeople? etc. etc. i guess you are right, the invaders had nothing but love for the americans in that movie. :rolleyes:
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
You sitting there at your keyboard assuming what everyone wants and what everyone knows.......when in fact, you don't know shit.
You don't know shit about what the insurgents want.
You don't know shit about what the Iraqis want.
You don't know shit about what I want, or know.
You don't know shit. Period.
Here's a little hint: Quit assuming what other people think and want. It makes you look really stupid, and discourages others from giving your thoughts any respect at all. |
so let me get this straight, you do know shit about what the insurgents want, you do know shit about what the iraqis want, and you do know shit about what i want or know. you know as much about that as i do, so we are in the same shit filled boat. as far as giving anyones thoughts respect, unless someone comes out and says bush is the devil and all republicans are worthless slime you dont respect anything they say so i dont intend on having you respect my posts anytime soon. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by curleydan
no it wasnt, the point was to say we are evil and the iraqis are heros. plain and simple.
Like I said before douchebag, when you go around invading and occupying other countries illegally, that's the kind of criticism you invite.
Live with it.
what version of red dawn did you and abba watch? the version where the communists didnt round up all the men in the town and put them in a concentration camp to brain wash them. the version where the communists didnt make men dig their own graves and then murder them in front of other townspeople? etc. etc. i guess you are right, the invaders had nothing but love for the americans in that movie. :rolleyes:
And we have shown nothing but love for the Iraqis, going by that criteria. It's a love fest over there.
so let me get this straight, you do know shit about what the insurgents want, you do know shit about what the iraqis want, and you do know shit about what i want or know. you know as much about that as i do, so we are in the same shit filled boat.
You're completely right about all of that....with one major exception - I'm not advocating the continued occupation and dismantling of Iraq, while you are.
as far as giving anyones thoughts respect, unless someone comes out and says bush is the devil and all republicans are worthless slime you dont respect anything they say so i dont intend on having you respect my posts anytime soon.
Basing your political beliefs upon sweeping generalizations and erroneous assumptions that you cannot prove won't win you anyone's respect, with the possible exception of DOODOO-HERE.
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| curleydan |
Like I said before douchebag, when you go around invading and occupying other countries illegally, that's the kind of criticism you invite.
Live with it.
so really what you are saying is despite the fact that both parties in both houses of congress supported the invasion and continue to support the war by passing funding its illegal. and its ok to hate the troops because its an illegal war. and im the douchebag.
And we have shown nothing but love for the Iraqis, going by that criteria. It's a love fest over there.
is it our militarys stated policy to round up the men and put them in camps over there? to make them dig graves and then murder them in their home towns? with saddam in charge, thats darn near what they had, but we are in the wrong.
You're completely right about all of that....with one major exception - I'm not advocating the continued occupation and dismantling of Iraq, while you are.
troops in iraq mean the terrorists are fighting them and not plotting to blow up the galleria. our continued presence in iraq is not a horrible thing.
Basing your political beliefs upon sweeping generalizations and erroneous assumptions that you cannot prove won't win you anyone's respect, with the possible exception of DOODOO-HERE.
basically what you are saying here is that neither side of the coin should respect the other. because there isnt any claim you are making about me that cant be made about you. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by curleydan
Like I said before douchebag, when you go around invading and occupying other countries illegally, that's the kind of criticism you invite.
Live with it.
so really what you are saying is despite the fact that both parties in both houses of congress supported the invasion and continue to support the war by passing funding its illegal. and its ok to hate the troops because its an illegal war. and im the douchebag.
We can sit here and accuse each other of saying crap we didn't say all day long - it gets nowhere.
I never ONCE said I hate the troops - that makes you a liar.
Granting the president authority to go after nuclear weapons and supporting the unprovoked invasion and continuing occupation of a soveriegn nation are two different things.
The fact that you can't separate the two makes you a douchebag.
It's the douchebags like you that would scream "they hate the troops!!!" if congress cut funding, so, at this point, they really don't have a choice.
The C-in-C calls the shots, so quit trying to pretend that congress is as much to blame as him.
They are not. Partially, maybe, but that's negligible. Especially when compared to the executive branch's involvement.
And we have shown nothing but love for the Iraqis, going by that criteria. It's a love fest over there.
is it our militarys stated policy to round up the men and put them in camps over there? to make them dig graves and then murder them in their home towns? with saddam in charge, thats darn near what they had, but we are in the wrong.
"Stated policy" and what's really happening on the ground in a combat theater are often two different things. Your failure to recognize this also makes you a douchebag.
An innocent Iraqi family whose lives are destroyed by our actions, purposefully or not, probably care very little about our "stated policy". I know that means nothing to you, though.
(That also makes you a douchebag)
You're completely right about all of that....with one major exception - I'm not advocating the continued occupation and dismantling of Iraq, while you are.
troops in iraq mean the terrorists are fighting them and not plotting to blow up the galleria. our continued presence in iraq is not a horrible thing.
I'm tired of debunking that stupid, useless piece of right-wing talking point trash.
If you don't know what's wrong with that statement, you're too stupid to be seen talking to me.
Basing your political beliefs upon sweeping generalizations and erroneous assumptions that you cannot prove won't win you anyone's respect, with the possible exception of DOODOO-HERE.
basically what you are saying here is that neither side of the coin should respect the other. because there isnt any claim you are making about me that cant be made about you.
In my world, respect is earned.
When you spout obviously illogical bullshit like that garbage above, you can't expect the same reaction that someone who posts thoughtful responses can. You may really believe it, in which case, you're a flaming idiot. Chances are you know as well as I do that it's pure bullshit designed to distract, in which case you're a disingenuous cocksucker.
Flaming idiots and disingenuous cocksuckers get no respect from me.
Sorry.
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| vegaseric |
| ABBA, RED DAWN IS A FUCING MOVIE MADE BY HOLLYWOOD.......ARE THE DEATHS IN IRAQ THE SAME AS THE DEATHS IN RED DAWN........ |
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| curleydan |
i take it in your world, the more personal insults you can cram into a post the better the post?
you never said you hated the troops, but you said the iraqi insurgents are the heros. in order to have a hero, there must be a villian. you cant love the insurgents and the troops, you make your choice.
the liberals all want to lay the blame for the problems in this war at the feet of the president. and while i will agree that very little in the presidents plan has gone right, the liberals have offered nothing other than complaint and then the vote to support the presidents course. trying to lay the whole blame on the president is shirking the responsibility of the congress. they went along with this from the beginning. will it change with pelosi in charge, we will see but i seriously doubt it.
so what is going on over there on the ground? are there large concentration camps set up to reeducate all the men? mass graves where americans slaugherted iraqi civilians that got in the way? there wernt alot of tears shed in sadr city when the world trade center buildings collasped, so its gonna be hard for me to be real sad when people who wont stand up against the terrorists get treated like terrorists. even if they might be "innocent".
are you tired of "debunking" that talking point because you realize its the truth?
acusing me of distracting, man thats a serious pot kettle infraction. this whole thread is a distraction. abbas whole point to the thread was to distract. im not even sure now that he watched the movie last weekend, its just a clever way of hiding his, and yours since you agree with him, hate for all things american. |
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| atomizer |
Hey curley - try this one on: the anti-war movement called 'bullshit' on your mentality before your holy war even began. We were correct to begin with, and absolutely no one will admit to that. We were correct about absolutely everything surrounding this little endeavour you suckle on.
And your bit about hating all things american, name three american things that are good. Three things that america does better than any other nation. Go on. |
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| Billyfromsphily |
3 things,
1 Makes Cheesesteaks
2 Baseball teams
3 Satellite Radio |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by curleydan
i take it in your world, the more personal insults you can cram into a post the better the post?
Your thinly-veiled insults aren't any better or more acceptable than my overt hostility.
Stupidity irritates me. Sorry.
you never said you hated the troops, but you said the iraqi insurgents are the heros. in order to have a hero, there must be a villian. you cant love the insurgents and the troops, you make your choice.
Never called anyone a hero. Another lie. What a surprise.
Another erroneous assumption, too. I can love the troops and the insurgents at the same time. I'm Jesus-like that way. I don't blame either one of them for what's going on over there.
I blame Bushco for lying us into it, and I blame you for supporting them.
the liberals all want to lay the blame for the problems in this war at the feet of the president. and while i will agree that very little in the presidents plan has gone right, the liberals have offered nothing other than complaint and then the vote to support the presidents course. trying to lay the whole blame on the president is shirking the responsibility of the congress. they went along with this from the beginning. will it change with pelosi in charge, we will see but i seriously doubt it.
We know for a fact that congress does not have the same access to information as the President. They only knew what he told them. They voted based on what they knew - what he wanted them to know.
I've said it before - they should have asked more questions, no doubt. That does not equate to collusion or even complicity. Maybe criminal negligence.
so what is going on over there on the ground? are there large concentration camps set up to reeducate all the men? mass graves where americans slaugherted iraqi civilians that got in the way? there wernt alot of tears shed in sadr city when the world trade center buildings collasped, so its gonna be hard for me to be real sad when people who wont stand up against the terrorists get treated like terrorists. even if they might be "innocent".
More shit that you don't know.
More ignorance stacked on top of apathy and malice. You're truly sickening, you know that?
are you tired of "debunking" that talking point because you realize its the truth?
The truth? How can it be the truth, WHEN IT COMPLETELY DEFIES LOGIC?
Do you realize that, going by the SAME LOGIC, we will never catch OBL because we are in Iraq fighting the insurgency?
Going by that SAME LOGIC, you will never go to the store again, because you're busy here with me on the internet.
IT'S JUST STUPID.
THERE IS NO LOGICAL REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THIS IS THE CASE.
WHAT IS MISSING IN YOUR BRAIN THAT YOU CAN'T RECOGNIZE THAT?
acusing me of distracting, man thats a serious pot kettle infraction. this whole thread is a distraction. abbas whole point to the thread was to distract. im not even sure now that he watched the movie last weekend, its just a clever way of hiding his, and yours since you agree with him, hate for all things american.
Yeah, you figured us out. We made up the story of watching the movie and seeing similarities in what's happening today in Iraq. It's all a smoke screen to distract you while Al Franken and Keith Olberman sneak into your house and steal your guns and your bible.
You truly are a dipshit.
ONCE MORE, I don't hate all things American, I hate all things stupid.
If you read that as hostility towards you, well, what does that tell you?
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| SaintJimmy |
Curly, mike, doodoo-here, all of you Bush supporters, listen up.
All of these things that we argue back and forth on everyday are all ancillary and ultimately meaningless.
What it all boils down to is this:
What you believe -vs- what I believe
What you believe is that the President is an honest man with honest intentions.
What I believe is that he is less-than-honest, with less-than-honest intentions.
History will be the judge.
No one can say for sure what will happen, but I guarantee you one thing:
Any Las Vegas odds maker would put his money on "less-than-honest".
(Not just with Bush either, that's with ANY Modern President.) :rolleyes: |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by vegaseric
ABBA, RED DAWN IS A FUCING MOVIE MADE BY HOLLYWOOD.......ARE THE DEATHS IN IRAQ THE SAME AS THE DEATHS IN RED DAWN........ |
Death is death is death is death. Unfortunately, our society is so fucking retarded that history is a poor substitute for a movie.
Between Iraq and Red Dawn, the parallels are EXACTLY the same, probably more so than history because the majority of my pussy bitches countrymen have never seen battle, never feared for their lives, and a very small amount of them has ever had to live in the shoes of those our bombs fall on.
What the fuck do you think YOU know, anyway? |
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| atomizer |
Quote: Originally posted by Billyfromsphily
3 things,
1 Makes Cheesesteaks
2 Baseball teams
3 Satellite Radio |
Okay, give you two!
Cheesesteaks, satellite radio, totally. Baseball sucks. It's a sad excuse for goatee'd idiots to grab crotch. I do like vintage Mustangs, tho, so that's three. I admit wrongness. |
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| atomizer |
Oh, hey.
Why do you guys suck up to a liar? Clinton bothered you enough to impeach him, right? Why is bush different? Clinton got sucked-off, bush sucks you off. Where's the difference? |
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| curleydan |
Quote: Originally posted by atomizer
Oh, hey.
Why do you guys suck up to a liar? Clinton bothered you enough to impeach him, right? Why is bush different? Clinton got sucked-off, bush sucks you off. Where's the difference? |
the difference is i wont be the one with cum on my dress. |
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| curleydan |
Quote: Originally posted by atomizer
Hey curley - try this one on: the anti-war movement called 'bullshit' on your mentality before your holy war even began. We were correct to begin with, and absolutely no one will admit to that. We were correct about absolutely everything surrounding this little endeavour you suckle on.
And your bit about hating all things american, name three american things that are good. Three things that america does better than any other nation. Go on. |
wow, at least you dont try to pretend you dont hate all things american. |
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| curleydan |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
Curly, mike, doodoo-here, all of you Bush supporters, listen up.
All of these things that we argue back and forth on everyday are all ancillary and ultimately meaningless.
What it all boils down to is this:
What you believe -vs- what I believe
What you believe is that the President is an honest man with honest intentions.
What I believe is that he is less-than-honest, with less-than-honest intentions.
History will be the judge.
No one can say for sure what will happen, but I guarantee you one thing:
Any Las Vegas odds maker would put his money on "less-than-honest".
(Not just with Bush either, that's with ANY Modern President.) :rolleyes: |
hey look, i dont think there is such a thing as an honest politician. there isnt one elected official that wouldnt lie to your or my face in a heartbeat. the difference i see with bush is that he decided to take a real honest to goodness fight to those who bear ill will towards us. as opposed to lobbing a few cruise missles and going to bed. war is not easy, its not fun, and its not simple. and i for one believe this war is going to get worse before it gets better. a good chunk of america has already forgotten about 9/11 and sadly it will probably take another one to remotivate the country. |
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| Monster_Zero |
Quote: Originally posted by curleydan
hey look, i dont think there is such a thing as an honest politician. there isnt one elected official that wouldnt lie to your or my face in a heartbeat. the difference i see with bush is that he decided to take a real honest to goodness fight to those who bear ill will towards us. as opposed to lobbing a few cruise missles and going to bed. war is not easy, its not fun, and its not simple. and i for one believe this war is going to get worse before it gets better. a good chunk of america has already forgotten about 9/11 and sadly it will probably take another one to remotivate the country. |
You've GOT to be kidding! :rolleyes: Dubya started a bullshit war for the advancement of oil interests in Iraq, and NOTHING ELSE!! It's a well known fact that Hussein's biggest crime was back-dooring the oil embargo he was saddled with following Dessert Storm. He was selling oil to France and others, and Exxon wasn't getting their cut. Time to invade Iraq.
To even try and suggest that the war in Iraq has anything to do with 9/11; makes you either dishonest, ignorant, or both... |
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