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Halcyon

Thought this is interesting. Again, I am an Astronomy fanatic so I thought I'd post something NON-political. If anyone wants to discuss Astronomy theories and such, I'm all for it.

From SpaceFlightNow.com
Article

Flies in a spider's web: Galaxy caught in the making
HUBBLE ESA INFORMATION CENTRE NEWS RELEASE
Posted: October 12, 2006

New Hubble images have provided a dramatic glimpse of a large massive galaxy under assembly as smaller galaxies merge. This has commonly been thought to be the way galaxies grew in the young Universe, but now Hubble observations of the radio galaxy MRC 1138-262, nicknamed the "Spiderweb Galaxy," have shown dozens of star-forming satellite galaxies in the actual process of merging.

Credit: NASA, ESA, George Miley and Roderik Overzier (Leiden Observatory, the Netherlands)
Download larger image version here

In nature spiders earn our respect by constructing fascinating, well- organised webs in all shapes and sizes. But the beauty masks a cruel, fatal trap. Analogously, the NASA/ESA Hubble Space Telescope has found a large galaxy 10.6 billion light-years away from Earth (at a redshift of 2.2) that is stuffing itself with smaller galaxies caught like flies in a web of gravity. The galaxy is so far away that astronomers are seeing it as it looked in the early formative years of the Universe, only 2 billion years after the Big Bang.

The Hubble image shows the Spiderweb Galaxy sitting at the centre of an emergent galaxy cluster, surrounded by hundreds of other galaxies from the cluster.

Team leader George Miley from Leiden Observatory in the Netherlands explains: "The new Hubble image is the best demonstration so far that large massive galaxies are built up by merging smaller ones." The image reaches much deeper than previous ones and shows the merging process in unprecedented detail. Galaxies can be seen as they are sucked into the Spiderweb at speeds of several hundred kilometres per second, from distances of more than a hundred thousand light-years around it.

Radio telescopes have shown that jets of fast particles are being spewed out from the centre of the Spiderweb Galaxy with enormous energies. These jets are believed to be produced by a massive black hole buried deep in the nucleus of the system. The infalling galaxy "flies" are a source of food for this black hole "spider", allowing it to continue disgorging the jets.

The new Hubble image provides a unique real-world example for testing theoretical models of massive galaxy formation. The complexity and clumpiness of the Spiderweb agrees qualitatively with the predictions of such models, but a surprising feature of the Spiderweb Galaxy is the presence of several faint small linear galaxies within the merging structure.

The Spiderweb Galaxy is located in the southern constellation of Hydra (the water snake) and is one of the most massive galaxies known.

This result was published 10th October 2006 in Astrophysical Journal Letters.

Picture:

tourette_ticker

This is an obvious fake by those who want us to believe that the universe is more than 6 thousand years old.

(nice pic!)

BarkonCue

Didn't they upgrade the Hubble somehow recently ?
I don't jack-shit about astronomy so as usual I'm better to just play along at home .

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by BarkonCue
Didn't they upgrade the Hubble somehow recently ?
I don't jack-shit about astronomy so as usual I'm better to just play along at home .

It's been awhile, but they have upgraded it. The current debate is weather to send a shuttle mission to keep it running, or to let it's orbit degrade and burn up in the atmosphere. If the shuttle goes to Hubble, they can't make it to the Space Station as a safety net in case of trouble.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
It's been awhile, but they have upgraded it. The current debate is weather to send a shuttle mission to keep it running, or to let it's orbit degrade and burn up in the atmosphere. If the shuttle goes to Hubble, they can't make it to the Space Station as a safety net in case of trouble.

I'm about to start a thread with reasons as to why the Hubble needs to stay around......

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
I'm about to start a thread with reasons as to why the Hubble needs to stay around......

I'm with you, as are the astronauts who would have to fly the mission.

DUDE-HERE

thats global warming !!!!!!

Gerry Lincoln

Stuff like this makes me wish we had warp drive and could explore our universe like Captain Picard.

Remember the promises of "A Space Odyssey: 2001" ?

Shouldn't we at least be exploring our own solar system by now?

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Gerry Lincoln
Stuff like this makes me wish we had warp drive and could explore our universe like Captain Picard.

Remember the promises of "A Space Odyssey: 2001" ?

Shouldn't we at least be exploring our own solar system by now?

:bigclap:

Halcyon

Would be nice... but I'm afraid we will never get to that stage before our existence is wiped off the planet. 6 billion people on this planet and not one of us has figured out a way to create a ship/shuttle or system that will allow us to live on other planets and study them.

We can't even explore the OCEANS of this PLANET... How will we ever explore our Solar System? Our best bet is to do as we have been doing, sending out probes to different planets in our system.....

Cassini took some AWESOME photos of Saturn in front of the Sun and showed us that there are more moon'lets and rings then we thought before.... Look below:

DUDE-HERE

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
Would be nice... but I'm afraid we will never get to that stage before our existence is wiped off the planet. 6 billion people on this planet and not one of us has figured out a way to create a ship/shuttle or system that will allow us to live on other planets and study them.

We can't even explore the OCEANS of this PLANET... How will we ever explore our Solar System? Our best bet is to do as we have been doing, sending out probes to different planets in our system.....

Cassini took some AWESOME photos of Saturn in front of the Sun and showed us that there are more moon'lets and rings then we thought before.... Look below:

thats not a real photo...thats all fake and made in some 3d rendering program

Gerry Lincoln

This thread is inspirational, awe-inspiring — and depressing.

Gaze upward on a clear night, far from the lights of the city.

Therein lies our infatuation with Riley Martin.

I want to believe . . .

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
thats not a real photo...thats all fake and made in some 3d rendering program

No, as a matter of fact it is real... and it is a composite of a bunch of photos the Cassini shuttle was taking and then they put the composites together and created this photo.

I know it's hard for you to understand that Astronomers can do this. I mean they've only been doing it since the invention of the giant space telescopes :rolleyes:

And if you don't believe me, feel free to email SpaceFlightNow.com
Here's the link to the article... you can read it yourself.

Article

DUDE-HERE

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
No, as a matter of fact it is real... and it is a composite of a bunch of photos the Cassini shuttle was taking and then they put the composites together and created this photo.

I know it's hard for you to understand that Astronomers can do this. I mean they've only been doing it since the invention of the giant space telescopes :rolleyes:

And if you don't believe me, feel free to email SpaceFlightNow.com
Here's the link to the article... you can read it yourself.

Article

from 165 composites...so

it is rendered asshole...learn you fucking photoshop

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
from 165 composites...so

it is rendered asshole...learn you fucking photoshop

Uhhh.... I'm sorry, do you not understand the difference between a satellite orbiting a planet and taking 165 different pictures from different angles with the sun directly behind it to give it a nice 3d look and a photoshop?

Abba

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
Uhhh.... I'm sorry, do you not understand the difference between a satellite orbiting a planet and taking 165 different pictures from different angles with the sun directly behind it to give it a nice 3d look and a photoshop?

Halcyon, do you ever stand in front of your wall and yell at it for being verticle? Why are you bothering with this dipshit?

Back to the topic at hand, one of the most amazing yet underrepresented stories of the last year was the discovery of ALOT of water on Mars and traces of it on the moon.
We can thank the MRO for Mars, especially it's ground penetrating radar. While the ESA's Mars Express also had ground pentrating radar, it went deep but had a relatively low resolution. The Mars reconnaisance Orbiter, however, goes shallow but in far more detail. In practical terms, the MRO is a phenomenon. It has located many pockets of water right below the surface of the planet which means inifnate possibilities for human travel. Of course, water outside the earth means we don't have to bring it with us for drinking, but also for the most common means of contemporary space propulsion, rocket fuel.
Also, water on the moon is a HUGE boon to us, since it's most likely that any exploration of our solar system would originate from lunar bases. Luna has only 1/6th the gravity of Earth, as well as extra relative speed which will aid any spacecraft begining it's trip. Setting up permanent long term bases on the moon just became a bit easier.

Europa holds a particular fascination for us. The possibilities of life on that sattelite of Jupiter grow with every scientific breakthrough made. The whole world is covered in a layer of water ice, and the interior of the planet could possibly be heated due to geo-thermic activity of the core as well as the massive tidal energies of Jupiter, constantly pushing and pulling the world apart.

Unfortunately, too many simpletons like Dukey-here and NCMoron abound, species who would rather manufactur and deploy expensive new weaponry with the sole purpose of wreaking havoc and state sanctioned armed robbery, than develop new technology for the betterment of ALL mankind.

Gerry Lincoln

Quote: Originally posted by Abba

Unfortunately, too many simpletons like Dukey-here and NCMoron abound....

I don't even know why he bothers coming to this forum.

He's obviously in way over his head here.

Seems he'd be much more comfortable in General Chatter with the other mindless attention whores who can't even construct a sentence.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Halcyon, do you ever stand in front of your wall and yell at it for being verticle? Why are you bothering with this dipshit?

Back to the topic at hand, one of the most amazing yet underrepresented stories of the last year was the discovery of ALOT of water on Mars and traces of it on the moon.
We can thank the MRO for Mars, especially it's ground penetrating radar. While the ESA's Mars Express also had ground pentrating radar, it went deep but had a relatively low resolution. The Mars reconnaisance Orbiter, however, goes shallow but in far more detail. In practical terms, the MRO is a phenomenon. It has located many pockets of water right below the surface of the planet which means inifnate possibilities for human travel. Of course, water outside the earth means we don't have to bring it with us for drinking, but also for the most common means of contemporary space propulsion, rocket fuel.
Also, water on the moon is a HUGE boon to us, since it's most likely that any exploration of our solar system would originate from lunar bases. Luna has only 1/6th the gravity of Earth, as well as extra relative speed which will aid any spacecraft begining it's trip. Setting up permanent long term bases on the moon just became a bit easier.

Europa holds a particular fascination for us. The possibilities of life on that sattelite of Jupiter grow with every scientific breakthrough made. The whole world is covered in a layer of water ice, and the interior of the planet could possibly be heated due to geo-thermic activity of the core as well as the massive tidal energies of Jupiter, constantly pushing and pulling the world apart.

Unfortunately, too many simpletons like Dukey-here and NCMoron abound, species who would rather manufactur and deploy expensive new weaponry with the sole purpose of wreaking havoc and state sanctioned armed robbery, than develop new technology for the betterment of ALL mankind.

There was 'water' found on Mars. The water that we found I don't think was the same compound as we have here, ie. H2O. I think they proved that it was a different compound of Hydrogen and Oxygen that we could not drink. I could be wrong, and will look this up.

But they feel that it is possible a long time ago (we're talking millions upon millions of years) after our Solar System had formed, there was a planet between Mars and Earth. At some point after the formation of our solar system, they think this planet was struck by a MASSIVE asteroid which shattered the planet. This caused the Earth to move slightly forward, in addition to pushing Mars slightly backwards.

This theory COULD explain 3 things:
a) Why Mars could have had an atmosphere, but after the explosion of the other planet, it got pushed too far for it's gravity to sustain an atmosphere. Therefore the surrounding Space cooled the 'water' to the point of freezing. But that the atmosphere on Mars COULD have been much more 'life sustaining' and may have provided an atmosphere and gravity consistent with providing 'running' water.

b) This would explain the massive debris in between the two planets, Earth and Mars known as the Asteroid Belt.

c) This would also explain the now inactive volcanoes on Mars that would have suggested such a nearby explosion and loss of atmosphere would have put Mars in a HIGHLY volcanic state of 'upheaval' essentially losing a lot of it's 'inner heat' by pushing Mantle through these volcanoes.

I don't know if any of that makes sense to you....

I forgot to add the most interesting fact:

There are planets that are able to liquify, vaporize, or solidify different elements. For example, Europa, as you say has water... is actually a different element, such as Hydrogen. It could be vast fields of frozen hydrogen which could look like 'water' from a distance. Don't be fooled.

Also, one extremely amazing fact:

Titan (Saturn's largest moon) is the only OTHER planetary being that also has a triple point!!!!

Earth has a triple point with H20... that is, on Earth, we can find vaporized water (clouds), liquid water (rivers, oceans), and SOLID water (ice, tundras).
Titan has a triple point of Methane! .... Methane clouds, Methane rivers, and Methane Ice!!

That means... if there is oxygen in some 'air' form... you better not light a match near Titan! :) The whole place could explode with all that Methane!

Abba

Quote: Originally posted by Gerry Lincoln

I don't even know why he bothers coming to this forum.

He's obviously in way over his head here.

Seems he'd be much more comfortable in General Chatter with the other mindless attention whores who can't even construct a sentence.

Yeah, most of them are lucky that the :rolleyes: is conveniently located on the left, since that's the majority of their responses.

angrypirate

I didn't see the mothership next to Saturn.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by angrypirate
I didn't see the mothership next to Saturn.

Are you supposed to be the new IronPirate/ghostofIronPirate?

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
There was 'water' found on Mars. The water that we found I don't think was the same compound as we have here, ie. H2O. I think they proved that it was a different compound of Hydrogen and Oxygen that we could not drink. I could be wrong, and will look this up.

But they feel that it is possible a long time ago (we're talking millions upon millions of years) after our Solar System had formed, there was a planet between Mars and Earth. At some point after the formation of our solar system, they think this planet was struck by a MASSIVE asteroid which shattered the planet. This caused the Earth to move slightly forward, in addition to pushing Mars slightly backwards.

This theory COULD explain 3 things:
a) Why Mars could have had an atmosphere, but after the explosion of the other planet, it got pushed too far for it's gravity to sustain an atmosphere. Therefore the surrounding Space cooled the 'water' to the point of freezing. But that the atmosphere on Mars COULD have been much more 'life sustaining' and may have provided an atmosphere and gravity consistent with providing 'running' water.

b) This would explain the massive debris in between the two planets, Earth and Mars known as the Asteroid Belt.

c) This would also explain the now inactive volcanoes on Mars that would have suggested such a nearby explosion and loss of atmosphere would have put Mars in a HIGHLY volcanic state of 'upheaval' essentially losing a lot of it's 'inner heat' by pushing Mantle through these volcanoes.

I don't know if any of that makes sense to you....

I forgot to add the most interesting fact:

There are planets that are able to liquify, vaporize, or solidify different elements. For example, Europa, as you say has water... is actually a different element, such as Hydrogen. It could be vast fields of frozen hydrogen which could look like 'water' from a distance. Don't be fooled.

Also, one extremely amazing fact:

Titan (Saturn's largest moon) is the only OTHER planetary being that also has a triple point!!!!

Earth has a triple point with H20... that is, on Earth, we can find vaporized water (clouds), liquid water (rivers, oceans), and SOLID water (ice, tundras).
Titan has a triple point of Methane! .... Methane clouds, Methane rivers, and Methane Ice!!

That means... if there is oxygen in some 'air' form... you better not light a match near Titan! :) The whole place could explode with all that Methane!

A few problems with this.

The asteroid belt is between Mars and Jupiter, not Mars and Earth.
Mars still has an atmosphere.
They believe the water found on Mars (not the Moon however) is good old H2O.
And there is rampant speculation that the ice capped oceans on Europa may well be water. (heated by huge tidal forces keeping the interior liquid)

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
A few problems with this.

The asteroid belt is between Mars and Jupiter, not Mars and Earth.
Mars still has an atmosphere.
They believe the water found on Mars (not the Moon however) is good old H2O.
And there is rampant speculation that the ice capped oceans on Europa may well be water. (heated by huge tidal forces keeping the interior liquid)

I'm sorry, you're right, I am completely confounded
It pushed Mars forward making the planet too hot to keep an atmosphere with it's gravity... therefore burning off the atmosphere which creates pressure which allows water to be liquid... there fore, no atmosphere = no pressure = no protection from space = frozen water

And yes, Mars does have an atmosphere. But the atmosphere is so thin that it really does not protect the planet from the solar winds thrown by the Sun. If you were to step on the surface of the planet without protection, you're blood could literally boil in a millisecond from the bombardment of Solar particles. Or so they say.

I'm sorry, I got so excited to spit that theory that I completely fucked up the facts. I'll keep my original post unedited with my mistakes to prove even I can get flapped up and excited and forget what I was talking about.

Sorry, thanks for correcting me.

Halcyon

FYI, Europa is considered to be 'the frozen moon' since the entire surface is covered in ice..... And you might be right... it's very possible that H20 exists on Europa and Mars... The inner core of Europa is still active, very much like our Earth so it's possible it also has volcanic activity... Can you imagine Ice eruptions!?

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
FYI, Europa is considered to be 'the frozen moon' since the entire surface is covered in ice..... And you might be right... it's very possible that H20 exists on Europa and Mars... The inner core of Europa is still active, very much like our Earth so it's possible it also has volcanic activity... Can you imagine Ice eruptions!?

Europa is also heated by the intense tidal pressures caused by it's elliptical orbit around Jupiter.

tourette_ticker

they think that's what causes the cracking of the ice surface.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
they think that's what causes the cracking of the ice surface.

Makes sense to me. The elliptical orbit means that it varies in distance with Jupiter. Which means that sometimes Jupiter's MASSIVE gravitational pull is heavier on Europa than other times. That kind of gravitational play will keep a planet's core in a constant state of flux, which will play games with the surface. And if your surface is covered by Ice.... it will always flex and move, causing cracks.

kali

That Saturn pic is so breathtaking.

i Never get tired of looking at these things or reading about them. it really puts everything in perspective. and all our stupid little concerns are passing - and will be forgotten by Time.

and, yet, we are a part of this fantastic Universe.

too bad so many people are blind, deaf, and blind.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by kali
That Saturn pic is so breathtaking.

i Never get tired of looking at these things or reading about them. it really puts everything in perspective. and all our stupid little concerns are passing - and will be forgotten by Time.

and, yet, we are a part of this fantastic Universe.

too bad so many people are blind, deaf, and blind.

Cassini has taken some good ones.... that was one of the best I have seen.

Abba

They CAN actually tell it's water ice using spectometry. It's actually a pretty acurate science.
As far as the moon's concerned, there is actual water up there due to infinate meteor impacts. Most comets are actually balls made up of various things, mostly ice. Unlike the other forms of water, ice does exist in the vacuum of space.

On Mars, the current theory is that Mars may have once been habitable, but due to it's lack of a solid metal core and subsequent lack of a powerful magnetic polarity like the Earth, it's atmosphere slowly leaked away into space. It's also geologically feeble, meaning extremely diminished volcanic activity. Ironically, it's the very same greenhouse gasses that are slowly killing Earth as we know it that could have maintained a once possibly habitable Mars. Theorists and scientists are postulating whether or not man could one day begin and maintain a "polluting" presence on Mars long enough to make it a human friendly planet.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by Abba
They CAN actually tell it's water ice using spectometry. It's actually a pretty acurate science.
As far as the moon's concerned, there is actual water up there due to infinate meteor impacts. Most comets are actually balls made up of various things, mostly ice. Unlike the other forms of water, ice does exist in the vacuum of space.

On Mars, the current theory is that Mars may have once been habitable, but due to it's lack of a solid metal core and subsequent lack of a powerful magnetic polarity like the Earth, it's atmosphere slowly leaked away into space. It's also geologically feeble, meaning extremely diminished volcanic activity. Ironically, it's the very same greenhouse gasses that are slowly killing Earth as we know it that could have maintained a once possibly habitable Mars. Theorists and scientists are postulating whether or not man could one day begin and maintain a "polluting" presence on Mars long enough to make it a human friendly planet.

Anything is possible if we poured enough money and research into ACTUALLY making it work. Back in the 50's no one thought we would ever land on the moon, all of sudden in the 60's were practically there, and finally we did it! It didn't take too long to achieve.... it just took the actual DESIRE to do so.

The problem is Scientists and Astronomers are usually government funded... and politicians are so greedy they rarely send ENOUGH funds to science. We will never get to mars or actually make it hospitable simply because of the greed of the inhabitants of this planet. Sad, really.

Hopefully there is a super advanced civilization out there that has put aside the greed to actually work toward space travel and can actually come save us. Because we're a greedy species whose doomed to a floating rock on space at the moment.

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
Cassini has taken some good ones.... that was one of the best I have seen.

Agreed as far as beauty. But I am fascinated with Minas (the death star)

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
Agreed as far as beauty. But I am fascinated with Minas (the death star)

lol, you just like it because it looks like the death star... it's pretty much devoid of anything else... although it is an interesting looking crater..... Almost makes you wonder if George Lucas used that picture for his creation of the Death Star

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
lol, you just like it because it looks like the death star... it's pretty much devoid of anything else... although it is an interesting looking crater..... Almost makes you wonder if George Lucas used that picture for his creation of the Death Star

You caught me. :D I really want more data on Titan. This radar image shows plenty of "water" front property. (water = liquid methane).

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
You caught me. :D I really want more data on Titan. This radar image shows plenty of "water" front property. (water = liquid methane).

An interesting thought... a planet made up of noxious cow farts :)

Methane is a pretty flammable element.

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
An interesting thought... a planet made up of noxious cow farts :)

Methane is a pretty flammable element.

Yes and as I think you pointed out, it's a damn good thing there is no oxygen there or one lighting strike and one hell of a fire.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
Yes and as I think you pointed out, it's a damn good thing there is no oxygen there or one lighting strike and one hell of a fire.

Well it's not COMPLETELY made of methane... but just like here on Earth, where water is 70% of the planet's surface, Methane accounts for most of the surface of Titan....

Abba

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
Agreed as far as beauty. But I am fascinated with Minas (the death star)

What's even scarier is exactly how big a chunk of space debris hit Minas to cause such a HUGE crater??

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by Abba
What's even scarier is exactly how big a chunk of space debris hit Minas to cause such a HUGE crater??

Waaaaaaaaay back in the day... our solar system was a MUCH busier place. There was a lot more debris and asteroids running around... after all of the masses of molten materials cooled off to form planets and moons, the rest of the asteroids wandered off, too big and too far to be tethered by the Sun's pull, some smashed into planets, some smashed into moons, and some just flew off into space, never to be seen.

harley-davidson

I often wondered,..."whats at the end?"....is there even an end?...really is hard to fathom just how small of an irrelevant dot we are compared to the big picture.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by harley-davidson
I often wondered,..."whats at the end?"....is there even an end?...really is hard to fathom just how small of an irrelevant dot we are compared to the big picture.

Time is the 4th dimension.... And Time dictates our percieved 3 dimensional world. When Time decides the end has come, it will come. The universe is dictated by Time. It comes every day, as people get old and pass away. Time has come to end... and Time takes you.

I don't believe in God.... I believe in Time.....

And I believe if we are ever to understand the universe, we have to understand the 4th dimension, Time.

Wrap your head around that.

harley-davidson

Quote: Wrap your head around that.

Do you believe in the possibility of other life forms existing in the universe?....just a side note,did you know that some of the inscriptions in the great pyramids were that of flying saucers...and some speculate that in order for them to acheive such building perfection they needed ariel help....even some of the man made stone formations in the world,were thought to be nothing until viewed from the air.... they then realized they formed animals or symbols...go figure.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by harley-davidson
Do you believe in the possibility of other life forms existing in the universe?....just a side note,did you know that some of the inscriptions in the great pyramids were that of flying saucers...and some speculate that in order for them to acheive such building perfection they needed ariel help....even some of the man made stone formations in the world,were thought to be nothing until viewed from the air.... they then realized they formed animals or symbols...go figure.

Fantasizing about alien life forms has always been around. From something as simple as Egyptian theology to the Romans and their belief structure. It's not uncommon for people to think of aliens, or gods.... It's been around since Man.

I don't believe Aliens ever visited this planet during the time of Man. Remember, this universe is almost 4 billion years old (speculation) and the earth is millions of years old (speculation). It is not out of the realm of possibility that an alien life form may have visited BEFORE man kind showed up on this planet at some point. But I don't believe any MAN has witnessed an alien, from Cave Man, to Egyptian/Roman, to Modern Man.... I believe there are life forms in this universe... Some have come and gone, some exist today, some will exist after our kind has passed on from this universe.

That is what I believe, in regards to Aliens. We haven't been visited yet... Man hasn't been visited yet.

kevin49er

Halcyon...

Was Pluto demoted to Dwarf Planet because he actually knew who killed Kennedy???

Maybe he was harboring terrorists... and so therefore wasn't with us... but against us, so we chose to fight them there, instead of here.

"There is a saying in Texas... maybe it is here on Pluto too... fool me once... "

"Hey... there is Donald... Hey Donald!!! Do you need a ride?"

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
Halcyon...

Was Pluto demoted to Dwarf Planet because he actually knew who killed Kennedy???

Maybe he was harboring terrorists... and so therefore wasn't with us... but against us, so we chose to fight them there, instead of here.

"There is a saying in Texas... maybe it is here on Pluto too... fool me once... "

"Hey... there is Donald... Hey Donald!!! Do you need a ride?"

:lol:

Is this about conspiracy theorists or alien life forms?

kevin49er

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
:lol:

Is this about conspiracy theorists or alien life forms?

Ummmm...

I think DUBYA is legally classified as an Alien Life Form...

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by kevin49er
Ummmm...

I think DUBYA is legally classified as an Alien Life Form...

I just think he's an illegal alien

kevin49er

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
I just think he's an illegal alien

Certainly not an intelligent life form...

[Drum]RIMSHOT[/Drum]

harley-davidson

Quote: I just think he's an illegal alien

I don't think the aliens want the dumb fuck either... :D ...lol

Just ask Riley martin...I love when Riley goes off about BUSH....PRICELESS

harley-davidson

O-Qua Tangin Wann.....uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...!

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
Fantasizing about alien life forms has always been around. From something as simple as Egyptian theology to the Romans and their belief structure. It's not uncommon for people to think of aliens, or gods.... It's been around since Man.

I don't believe Aliens ever visited this planet during the time of Man. Remember, this universe is almost 4 billion years old (speculation) and the earth is millions of years old (speculation). It is not out of the realm of possibility that an alien life form may have visited BEFORE man kind showed up on this planet at some point. But I don't believe any MAN has witnessed an alien, from Cave Man, to Egyptian/Roman, to Modern Man.... I believe there are life forms in this universe... Some have come and gone, some exist today, some will exist after our kind has passed on from this universe.

That is what I believe, in regards to Aliens. We haven't been visited yet... Man hasn't been visited yet.

Hey Halcyon,

I hate to correct you again. I think this is just another case of thinking quicker than you can type (happens to me all the time) The Earth is thought to be about 4 billion years old (4.2-4.5 I think) and the current estimate on the universe is 12-15 billion years.

On aliens, i have to agree they have never been here. Most people just don't comprehend the vastness of space. I think it is foolish to think that there isn't other life out there. I personally think intellegent life (as defined by the use of technology) also exists but that is a remoter possibility. Just look at Earth. Life is thought to have arisen almost 4 billion years ago, and humans have barely been here a million. And without that asteroid Dinos would still probably rule. We exist by fluke only.

tourette_ticker

Carl Sagan summed it up after he convinced the managers of Voyager to turn around and take a pic of earth from around 4 billion miles out and 23° above the solar plain.

The Pale Bule Dot

"We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.

The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
Hey Halcyon,

I hate to correct you again. I think this is just another case of thinking quicker than you can type (happens to me all the time) The Earth is thought to be about 4 billion years old (4.2-4.5 I think) and the current estimate on the universe is 12-15 billion years.

On aliens, i have to agree they have never been here. Most people just don't comprehend the vastness of space. I think it is foolish to think that there isn't other life out there. I personally think intellegent life (as defined by the use of technology) also exists but that is a remoter possibility. Just look at Earth. Life is thought to have arisen almost 4 billion years ago, and humans have barely been here a million. And without that asteroid Dinos would still probably rule. We exist by fluke only.

You're right again. I just don't have my time frames correct it seems. The important part IS the theory however.....

But like I said before on Aliens..... I'm sure intelligent life existed some where before our time, during our time, and long after our time. Intelligent life on another planet exists. It would be really hard to create a ship that could go faster than the speed of light, considering light consists of matter (it's a form of radiation, particles, etc..) and there for, if particles can only go as fast as the speed of X-rays... how do we get any matter to move FASTER than an x-ray?

The answer is some sort of accelerator. Something that can take the speed of some matter/particle and accelerate it over and over and over again until it can go faster than the speed of light.

There is a particle accelerator here in California near the Stanford University, and they claim to have been able to move matter faster than light. Meaning that they accelerated a particle so fast and shot it into a 'tube' that it came OUT of the tube before they saw it go INTO the tube.... that's faster than light

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
You're right again. I just don't have my time frames correct it seems. The important part IS the theory however.....

But like I said before on Aliens..... I'm sure intelligent life existed some where before our time, during our time, and long after our time. Intelligent life on another planet exists. It would be really hard to create a ship that could go faster than the speed of light, considering light consists of matter (it's a form of radiation, particles, etc..) and there for, if particles can only go as fast as the speed of X-rays... how do we get any matter to move FASTER than an x-ray?

The answer is some sort of accelerator. Something that can take the speed of some matter/particle and accelerate it over and over and over again until it can go faster than the speed of light.

There is a particle accelerator here in California near the Stanford University, and they claim to have been able to move matter faster than light. Meaning that they accelerated a particle so fast and shot it into a 'tube' that it came OUT of the tube before they saw it go INTO the tube.... that's faster than light

I don't think that have done it with particles yet (thought I could well be wrong), but they have done it with a quanta packet of light and with information. It is done through a weird quantum mechanical process called "entanglement". Or as Einstein called it - spooky action at a distance.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
I don't think that have done it with particles yet (thought I could well be wrong), but they have done it with a quanta packet of light and with information. It is done through a weird quantum mechanical process called "entanglement". Or as Einstein called it - spooky action at a distance.

Quanta packet? Is that like a neutrino? matter is matter, unless we're talking anti-matter like neutrinos and positrons.... The notion that you can accelerate a piece of any matter faster than the laws of physics should allow (speed of light) is a hard notion for me to wrap my head around, honestly.... Something coming out of the tube before you see it go in is amazing to me.

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
Quanta packet? Is that like a neutrino? matter is matter, unless we're talking anti-matter like neutrinos and positrons.... The notion that you can accelerate a piece of any matter faster than the laws of physics should allow (speed of light) is a hard notion for me to wrap my head around, honestly.... Something coming out of the tube before you see it go in is amazing to me.

Light is a weird animal, being both particle and wave. Are you familiar with the double slit experiment that proves lights dual nature?

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
Light is a weird animal, being both particle and wave. Are you familiar with the double slit experiment that proves lights dual nature?

No... do you have a link to the article? Maybe I could go google it... never read that article...

angrychink

dang..you guys are deep

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by angrychink
dang..you guys are deep

You haven't even heard me go into Black Holes and the Fourth Dimension really yet :) You wanna get deep? I got some shit that will make your head spin

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
No... do you have a link to the article? Maybe I could go google it... never read that article...

Here's a very simplistic explination (with pictures and graphics for idiots like me!). I will find you a better one, as it is part of the foundation of quantum mechanics and quantum astronomy.

link here

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
You haven't even heard me go into Black Holes and the Fourth Dimension really yet :) You wanna get deep? I got some shit that will make your head spin

LOL, yes we've barely touched on my science geek side yet. ;)

angrychink

launch photon torpedoes

hoochieking

Just so you guys know are Milky Way galaxy is as thin as a piece of paper (in proportion to the rest of the Universe) and that are Universe is in/on a very thin membrane itself. Oh and there are an infinite amount of these Universes, all with different rules of physics. And that the force of gravity that we feel might come from a parallel Universe. That's M-theory son, represent!

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by hoochieking
Just so you guys know are Milky Way galaxy is as thin as a piece of paper (in proportion to the rest of the Universe) and that are Universe is in/on a very thin membrane itself. Oh and there are an infinite amount of these Universes, all with different rules of physics. And that the force of gravity that we feel might come from a parallel Universe. That's M-theory son, represent!

It all in 'dem branes.

tourette_ticker

And actually the leakage of gravity into parallel universes may explain the weakness of gravity when compared to the other fundamental forces. Under M-theory. (told you I was a science geek)

Halcyon

Did you know, using the red/blue shift of far off galaxies and other massive bodies in space, that we can tell how fast/slow something is moving toward or away from us?

And that the the farther you look out, the faster things are moving AWAY from us.... this proves the theory that the Universe is expanding....

It's like a balloon... Here's an interesting analogy of our Universe that you can actually TRY at home and see what I'm talking about.

Take a balloon, and before you do anything, put two dots in black sharpee marker relatively close together.

Now, notice the distance between the dots and watch them as you begin to fill the balloon.

You'll notice that the two dots move away from each other at exponential rates... that is, they don't move away from each other at a constant rate, rather the dots continue to part faster and faster and faster as the balloon expands.

This is the pattern the scientists have been noticing with regards to the universe.

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
Did you know, using the red/blue shift of far off galaxies and other massive bodies in space, that we can tell how fast/slow something is moving toward or away from us?

And that the the farther you look out, the faster things are moving AWAY from us.... this proves the theory that the Universe is expanding....

It's like a balloon... Here's an interesting analogy of our Universe that you can actually TRY at home and see what I'm talking about.

Take a balloon, and before you do anything, put two dots in black sharpee marker relatively close together.

Now, notice the distance between the dots and watch them as you begin to fill the balloon.

You'll notice that the two dots move away from each other at exponential rates... that is, they don't move away from each other at a constant rate, rather the dots continue to part faster and faster and faster as the balloon expands.

This is the pattern the scientists have been noticing with regards to the universe.

And fittingly enough for a Hubble fan such as yourself, this Doppler shift was fist measured in the universe by none other than Ed Hubble.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
And fittingly enough for a Hubble fan such as yourself, this Doppler shift was fist measured in the universe by none other than Ed Hubble.

Absolutely!

Although I'm more a fan of the Telescope than the man :) I don't know much of his achievements, but I did know that one.

So the question is..... Something must be 'blowing' up the Universe to expand it..... What is it?

hoochieking

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
Absolutely!

Although I'm more a fan of the Telescope than the man :) I don't know much of his achievements, but I did know that one.

So the question is..... Something must be 'blowing' up the Universe to expand it..... What is it?

Its the mirrors! (sorry I have seen that stupid DLP commercial one too many times)

I think its the membrane being stretched out.

tourette_ticker

The initial expansion was due to the Big Bang (or something so similar under M-Theory that it may as well be the same). But the problem is the expansion should be slowing over time, but recently it has been found that the expansion is actually accelerating. There are several theories out there as why with "dark energy" being at the top. I find that a very unsatisfying answer, much like Einstein's cosmological constant - which he called the biggest mistake of his life. But it is coming back in the form of dark energy.

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by hoochieking
Its the mirrors! (sorry I have seen that stupid DLP commercial one too many times)

I think its the membrane being stretched out.

I think that is a better answer than dark energy. Damn tough to prove though.

harley-davidson

So what is at the end of the universe? everything has an end right?....just ask'n!

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by harley-davidson
everything has an end right?....just ask'n!

Not a circle. ;)

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
I think that is a better answer than dark energy. Damn tough to prove though.

Well something needs to be 'blowing' up the Universe....

We have 3 dimensions... we live in 3 dimensions that is... but there are NUMEROUS dimensions.... the 4th of which (I believe) is Time/Gravity.

Therefore I believe that the 4th dimension (Time/Gravity) is responsible for the expansion of the universe....

And Black Holes, are 'punches' into the 4th dimension from our 3rd dimension.

That is why they are so powerful that not even LIGHT escapes. As you approach a black hole, the gravity becomes so MASSIVE that even LIGHT cannot escape the pull of one when it is close enough. Which is why if you shine a light (or sun) into a black hole, you still cannot 'see' it. Also, as gravity increases in the center of one, the scientists postulate that even TIME begins to bend due to the sheer force of gravity being so strong.

(please forgive the numbers, they are not ACCURATE, but merely showing the difference)

If you got caught at the edge of a black hole... it could take you 5 minutes to go from the edge to 1/4 in, maybe 5 years to take you from 1/4 in to 1/2 in, maybe 5million years to go from 1/2 in to 3/4 in.... and an unbelieveable amount of time to get near the center.... and, they postulate that you may NEVER get to the center... that the closer you get to the center of a black hole, the slower time goes. It never stops, but it continues to slow down infinitely.

That is why they feel sending some probe would be worthless.... that, and no man made shuttle or probe could withstand even the beginnings of pressure from a black hole.

tourette_ticker

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
.

That is why they feel sending some probe would be worthless.... that, and no man made shuttle or probe could withstand even the beginnings of pressure from a black hole.

Well that and the fact that it would take millions of years to get to the nearest known black hole.

And most current theories postulate many more than the 4 traditional dimensions. String theory and it's cousin M-theory postulate between 9 and 16 dimensions! (depending on the theory)

hoochieking

Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
Well something needs to be 'blowing' up the Universe....

We have 3 dimensions... we live in 3 dimensions that is... but there are NUMEROUS dimensions.... the 4th of which (I believe) is Time/Gravity.

Therefore I believe that the 4th dimension (Time/Gravity) is responsible for the expansion of the universe....

And Black Holes, are 'punches' into the 4th dimension from our 3rd dimension.

That is why they are so powerful that not even LIGHT escapes. As you approach a black hole, the gravity becomes so MASSIVE that even LIGHT cannot escape the pull of one when it is close enough. Which is why if you shine a light (or sun) into a black hole, you still cannot 'see' it. Also, as gravity increases in the center of one, the scientists postulate that even TIME begins to bend due to the sheer force of gravity being so strong.

(please forgive the numbers, they are not ACCURATE, but merely showing the difference)

If you got caught at the edge of a black hole... it could take you 5 minutes to go from the edge to 1/4 in, maybe 5 years to take you from 1/4 in to 1/2 in, maybe 5million years to go from 1/2 in to 3/4 in.... and an unbelieveable amount of time to get near the center.... and, they postulate that you may NEVER get to the center... that the closer you get to the center of a black hole, the slower time goes. It never stops, but it continues to slow down infinitely.

That is why they feel sending some probe would be worthless.... that, and no man made shuttle or probe could withstand even the beginnings of pressure from a black hole.

There are 11 dimensions according to M-theory.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
Well that and the fact that it would take millions of years to get to the nearest known black hole.

And most current theories postulate many more than the 4 traditional dimensions. String theory and it's cousin M-theory postulate between 9 and 16 dimensions! (depending on the theory)

No disputing that fact.... I'm just saying that in order to fully understand our 3 dimensions.... we need to think 4th dimensionally.

The others won't be necessary until we can think 4th dimensionally....

here's another thing to ponder....

If you were a 2 dimensional being.... meaning you are a person who does not live in the 3 dimension, but only in 2 dimension (Height and Length) like on a piece of paper... and I (living in the 3rd dimension) stepped on the piece of paper.... would you be able to see 'all' of me?

No, you would only see the bottom of my shoe (the length and height, x/y) and not the rest of me (the width, z).

Therefore you may never know I existed, only that there was this anomaly.

It is possible that their are 'beings' that live in the 4th dimension... those who can transcend Time/Gravity... and that they have, in fact, the ability to cross to our 3rd dimension easily as we could the 1st, or 2nd dimensions. And because their brains function 4th dimensionally they can see all 4 dimensions. However, because we function 3rd dimensionally, we may never 'SEE' these beings or even feel their presence when they're around.

Aliens?

tourette_ticker

To me that is one of those things that fall outside of the realm of science. It can't be proven or disproven - just as we cannot prove the universe was not created 10 minutes ago with all of our memories intact.

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
To me that is one of those things that fall outside of the realm of science. It can't be proven or disproven - just as we cannot prove the universe was not created 10 minutes ago with all of our memories intact.

Of course not... it is all theoretical... but this is how we try to explain things using 'science' as opposed to what they used to call things they didn't understand back in the 14th century.... 'magic'

Stuff people couldn't understand, like gravity, they would dismiss as magic....

Abba

On the vastness of space:
It would take astronaunts 3 days to travel from the Earth to the moon under conventional modern propulsion. It would take the same travelers 6 Months to travel to Mars from Earth.

I have THIS PAGE bookmarked and check it out every once in a while. It helps keep things in perspective.

The Size of our World

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by Abba
On the vastness of space:
It would take astronaunts 3 days to travel from the Earth to the moon under conventional modern propulsion. It would take the same travelers 6 Months to travel to Mars from Earth.

I have THIS PAGE bookmarked and check it out every once in a while. It helps keep things in perspective.

Betelgeuse and Antares are known Red Giants...... the beginning of the end of a star.....

BarkonCue

WoW ! :ec:

tourette_ticker

thanks for the link

Halcyon

Quote: Originally posted by tourette_ticker
thanks for the link

Here's a good picture describing the life of a star...

tourette_ticker

And when our sun goes Red Giant (helpfully in a couple billion years) it will swallow the orbit of Venus, and of course Venus herself, and perhaps even Earth.

Halcyon

Quo