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How do we win the 'War On Terror'? - Click HERE to go to the original thread with graphics

Stonewall

I'm starting this thread to hear ideas of how to win this war.

Not to discuss how we are screwing up, or Bush, or 9/11 Conspiracies.

I have a few ideas myself, but I'd like to hear from others...

bluesoul

we'll win the war on terror as soon as as we win the war on jealousy, the war on temptation, and the war on the color blue.

angrychink

first

we should get the stupid fucking repukes to stop using the war on terror as a blank check to do the stupid fucking things they've been doing

like dividing the world and making more enemies, self righteously

first

FatesWebb

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
I'm starting this thread to hear ideas of how to win this war.

Not to discuss how we are screwing up, or Bush, or 9/11 Conspiracies.

I have a few ideas myself, but I'd like to hear from others...

the war on terror is bullshit, and will end as soon as bush leaves office.

Stonewall

All these answers have no plan at all.

Did anyone actually read my post?

I mentioned no Bush or conspiracies or insane ideas, well even insane would be welcome. But no Bush.

Plans.

Plans.

tom sizemore

won't ever happen as long as the US is the number one sponsor of terrorism in the world, shit is never going to change. But to stop sponsoring terrorism would be to put an end to its colonial aspirations which it won't ever due.

angrychink

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
All these answers have no plan at all.

Did anyone actually read my post?

I mentioned no Bush or conspiracies or insane ideas, well even insane would be welcome. But no Bush.

Plans.

Plans.

how about...this is a lame fucking veiled attempt at trying to blame anybody but bush?

the plan is and should be: anything that bush does not want

isn't it clear?

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by angrychink
how about...this is a lame fucking veiled attempt at trying to blame anybody but bush?

the plan is and should be: anything that bush does not want

isn't it clear?

I can see I'm gonna have to go first...

Alright. What if we surrender? Become Muslims. And then destroy Islam from within? We can do it. Imagine Bush being on the other side? Thats a way to victory.

Hater

the simple answer is that you win the war on terror by reducing the number of people being raised to be terrorists...it's the same way we've lowered racism in this countyr...in contemporary America, you most likely won't be a racist unless you're raised that way...terrorism works in the same way...if we give the younger generations of muslims no reason to hate us, they won't, and terrorism will become isolated to the extremists...

one great example is Lebanon...one of the most progressive middle eastern countries..democratic and everything...now do you think there were more extremist feelings before or after the rampant, unnecessary bombing unleased by Israel? Of course, there are more extremist feelings now...you create terrorists by killing regular mulsims and by interfering in their lives...I don't hate Germany, but I would if they suddenly started bombing my town and killing my friends and loved one...

one way to do this is simple...money and support...after the Tsunami when we donated millions and aided in the reconstruction efforts, our standing in the Muslim community sky rocketed...something as simple as people can go a long way...

I believe that Jim Channon figured this out in 1979 after Vietnam War...as a decorated Green Beret, he saw death after death in Vietnam and decided that humanity had come to far to resort to conventional warfare...he believed it was ineffective and wasted life...as a result he wrote, "the First Earth Battalion: Dare to Think the Unthinkable, Ideas and Ideals for Soldiers Everywhere"...peace before violence is his premise...if you have the time I urge you to read this manual, although over 20 years old, it is highly pertinent today and could really help us in the war on terror: http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_channon_0200.htm

Timmy

Remove our troops out of the "holy lands" and stop activly backing douchebag arab leaders who keep their people down (*coughSaudiArabiacough*).

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
the simple answer is that you win the war on terror by reducing the number of people being raised to be terrorists...it's the same way we've lowered racism in this countyr...in contemporary America, you most likely won't be a racist unless you're raised that way...terrorism works in the same way...if we give the younger generations of muslims no reason to hate us, they won't, and terrorism will become isolated to the extremists...

one great example is Lebanon...one of the most progressive middle eastern countries..democratic and everything...now do you think there were more extremist feelings before or after the rampant, unnecessary bombing unleased by Israel? Of course, there are more extremist feelings now...you create terrorists by killing regular mulsims and by interfering in their lives...I don't hate Germany, but I would if they suddenly started bombing my town and killing my friends and loved one...

one way to do this is simple...money and support...after the Tsunami when we donated millions and aided in the reconstruction efforts, our standing in the Muslim community sky rocketed...something as simple as people can go a long way...

I believe that Jim Channon figured this out in 1979 after Vietnam War...as a decorated Green Beret, he saw death after death in Vietnam and decided that humanity had come to far to resort to conventional warfare...he believed it was ineffective and wasted life...as a result he wrote, "the First Earth Battalion: Dare to Think the Unthinkable, Ideas and Ideals for Soldiers Everywhere"...peace before violence is his premise...if you have the time I urge you to read this manual, although over 20 years old, it is highly pertinent today and could really help us in the war on terror: http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_channon_0200.htm

I appreciate that but we are dead already. Your plan takes too long and assumes too much.

FatesWebb

heres the odds of dying in a specific accident....

1 in 88,000 of a terrorist attack
1 in 1,500,000 of a terrorist-caused shopping mall disaster assuming one such incident a week and you shop two hours a week
1 in 55,000,000 in a terrorist-caused plane disaster assuming one such incident a month and you fly once a month ( 1 )

1 in 55,928 of death by lightening
1 in 20,605 in your clothes igniting
1 in 10,455 of dying in your bathtub
1 in 10,010 by falling from a ladder or scaffolding
1 in 9,396 due to excessive heat
1 in 8,389 due to excessive cold
1 in 7,972 in a drowning accident
1 in 6,842 in a railway accident.

Using odds of dying in a way that Americans can relate to, let's compare the above numbers to the odds of dying during your lifetime to homicide from various forms of weapons.
1 in 197 of dying in a homicide
1 in 299 of dying in an assault from a firearm
1 in 5,330 of dying in an assault by hanging or strangulation
1 in 207,261 in operations of war.

So maybe we should discuss a strategy on how to win the war on bathtubs, ladders and your clothes igniting.

Timmy

Nuke all the bathtubs!

Stonewall

Fates,

When bathtubs start screaming Death to America, then we'll worry about them. You seem to believe we should just add "Death by Islam" as a natural accidental thing.

Hater

Stonewall, what do you mean it takes too long? Are you joking? Explain why it takes too long? It's the best plan...

sorry for you but the conservative plan of kill every terrorist is not only unfeasible, it's impossible...killing terrorists makes more terrorists...it's counter-productive...

please...my plan is the best...the only plan that can work...simple and plain..

explain yourself further...i'd like to know why the winnning the hearts and minds plan is not effective...

SaintJimmy

My Plan

by SaintJimmy

1.) Admit that there is no war on terror.

2.) Impeach and imprison the #1 purveyor and proponent of terrorism in the world.

3.) Join with the rest of the civilized nations of this planet and work in a concerted effort to marginalize terrorist networks, thereby making it easier for us to capture and try them.

4.) Look into ways of helping to raise the standard of living all over the planet, thereby making it a less hospitable atmosphere for terrorism in general.

5.) Face the reality that there will always be small factions of disruptive people who are looking to make trouble. Treat them the way they deserve - like criminals - not hostile regimes.

6.) Try to approach the situation with critical thinking INSTEAD of emotional reaction.

Timmy

Dont forget, there are lots of terrorists out there. Not just muslim ones. Theres enviroterrorists, white supremeists, milita groups, anti govt types, WalMart.

Hater

perfect Saint Jimmy...

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
My Plan

by SaintJimmy

1.) Admit that there is no war on terror.

2.) Impeach and imprison the #1 purveyor and proponent of terrorism in the world.

3.) Join with the rest of the civilized nations of this planet and work in a concerted effort to marginalize terrorist networks, thereby making it easier for us to capture and try them.

4.) Look into ways of helping to raise the standard of living all over the planet, thereby making it a less hospitable atmosphere for terrorism in general.

5.) Face the reality that there will always be small factions of disruptive people who are looking to make trouble. Treat them the way they deserve - like criminals - not hostile regimes.

6.) Try to approach the situation with critical thinking INSTEAD of emotional reaction.

I brought up a plan...surrender. Lets think about that. I don't think Islam can last if we take it up.

Imagine getting in on the ground floor, you can be a millionaire just having 200 million prayer rugs on hand. We could do with Islam what we did with Christianity, make it a commercial enterprise.

Hater

stonewall, why bring up the post if you're not going to answer seriously and act like a jackass...

just like every conservative you don't really care about the war on terror or the war in afghanistan or the war in Iraq...all you care about if fighting liberals in your own country..

fucking pathetic...

FatesWebb

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Fates,

When bathtubs start screaming Death to America, then we'll worry about them. You seem to believe we should just add "Death by Islam" as a natural accidental thing.

so if the terrorists all line up in our bathrooms, and kill more americans than they do now, you dont have a problem with them as long as they dont say anything?

SaintJimmy

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
I brought up a plan...surrender. Lets think about that. I don't think Islam can last if we take it up.

Imagine getting in on the ground floor, you can be a millionaire just having 200 million prayer rugs on hand. We could do with Islam what we did with Christianity, make it a commercial enterprise.

Oh, you're just jacking off.

I thought for a minute that you wanted serious discourse about this.

Nevermind.

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
stonewall, why bring up the post if you're not going to answer seriously and act like a jackass...

just like every conservative you don't really care about the war on terror or the war in afghanistan or the war in Iraq...all you care about if fighting liberals in your own country..

fucking pathetic...

Alright lets get serious. The Tsunami, what really happened when we went to help them? It seems to me we had to get our Navy out of there quick. And I loved the Made in America thing being passed off to some who wore Osama bin Laden T-Shirts.

Denial is not a winning strategy.

angrychink

how about we put in front of a firing squad

any fucking repuke who spews "anybody got a plan"

Hater

Stonewall what are you talking about? We donated money, we helped muslims, and it helped build their regard for us...

what the hell are you talking about with the Navy and Obama t-shirts? I don't follow...what does this have to do with anything?

again, you display severe ignorance to facts and the tenets of debate...why did you bring this shit up if you don't really want to discuss it? feeling lonely? want some attention...

I'll give you $50 if you can explain how your post is relevant to our discussion...

angrychink

but, dumbya said

if you give iraqis a chance to vote

every thing would be hunky dory

FatesWebb

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
Stonewall what are you talking about? We donated money, we helped muslims, and it helped build their regard for us...

what the hell are you talking about with the Navy and Obama t-shirts? I don't follow...what does this have to do with anything?

again, you display severe ignorance to facts and the tenets of debate...why did you bring this shit up if you don't really want to discuss it? feeling lonely? want some attention...

I'll give you $50 if you can explain how your post is relevant to our discussion...

he thinks that since we helped them, they dont deserve freedom of speech.

Stonewall

Perhaps you would know if you had looked into what occured with that. Just saying we gave aid and got "good will" does not explain the whole situation.

SaintJimmy

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Alright lets get serious. The Tsunami, what really happened when we went to help them? It seems to me we had to get our Navy out of there quick. And I loved the Made in America thing being passed off to some who wore Osama bin Laden T-Shirts.

Denial is not a winning strategy.

How is this a plan?

What the fuck are you on?

Can I have some?

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
How is this a plan?

What the fuck are you on?

Can I have some?

It was a response, not a plan.

The Tsunami effort was a useless thing opinion wise. Useless.

Now it is possible that a jump in opinion occured but by 2005 polls show in Indonesia the U.S. had a favorable rating of 38%. In 2006 it was 30%.

Hater

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Perhaps you would know if you had looked into what occured with that. Just saying we gave aid and got "good will" does not explain the whole situation.

Stonewall you're making shit up...you made the assertion, you back it up...YOU show me evidence to back up what you said...you can't just make wild claims (if that's even what they were - it's hard for me to interpret your broken english) and then tell me I would know about it if i had paid attention when it happened...what the fuck is that?

you are amazing...explain to me what you were trying to say...i really have no idea you lazy lying fuck...

Stonewall

My plan is seperation.

Pull out of all Islamic lands. Do not allow any immigration or visitation, or training in the U.S.. Quit buying anything from them. Begin to remove Islam from the U.S..

End almost all trade outside of our hemisphere. Build up our Hemisphere. Get rid of the China trade, etc..

My thinking is on that line. Seperation.

SaintJimmy

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
My plan is seperation.

Pull out of all Islamic lands. Do not allow any immigration or visitation, or training in the U.S.. Quit buying anything from them. Begin to remove Islam from the U.S..

End almost all trade outside of our hemisphere. Build up our Hemisphere. Get rid of the China trade, etc..

My thinking is on that line. Seperation.

Yeah, because that ALWAYS works.

:rolleyes:

Hater

Stonewall...great plan...ha...you racist fuck...

hating all muslims b/c of a small percentage of extremists is like hating all Christians of the God Hates Fags maniacs..

you make no sense are your derisive view points are the fucking reason we have terrorisim in the first place...your views are basically the same as the terrorists just vice versa...

My plan is to send all of the right wing extremist christian wackos and all the muslim extremist terrorists to the moon where they can kill each other in peace and leave the rest of us not filled with hate out of it...

people like you are as much a part of the problem as the terrorists...

Abba

It's not relevant, don't you know anything :rolleyes:

Seriously, this character Stonewall doesn't care about a mature answer, because he refuses to believe anything except that Islam is guilty, as if he knows anything.
The War on Terror is the most retarded, most brilliant marketing ploy since the War on drugs or the War on poverty. None of them will EVER be won. They're simply deep, black pits that we can pour infinate amounts of money into.

The overwhelming, Vast majority of Muslims want nothing more than to be LEFT ALONE. "People" like Stonewall can sit there and condemn the Palestinians for their hatred of Israel, as if the Pals were sitting int heir recliners one day, enjoying their plasma TV and the cool air from the AC and suddenly decided, "LET'S KILL SOME JEWS!!!!". Of course, that simplistic, infantile view of the world is so comforting to some "people". Meanwhile, if a thing like Stonewall was placed in the shoes of a Palestinian, it would dissolve. You simply Can't relate to them. They can, however, relate to us based on our actions.
We are the ones who help deny them any justice. We are the ones who supply Israel with the tools to rob from them daily. We are the ones that cover Israel in the UN. the fact that we're hated by them is no suprise.
On to Saudi Arabia, where any kind of free thought is CRUSHED by the ruling family, who are the Best of friends with the United States. Our x-Military protects the government. Our bases inflame them constantly. We fail to respect their customs, and we're only there for conquest.

Whoever brought up Lebanon hit it DEAD-ON. The ONLY REAL Democracy in the region is Lebanon. Israel is NOT a democracy, because they do not grant equal rights to their Arab (Muslim AND Christian) citizens. Last summers rape of Lebanon by Israel HURT US.
I can tell you with firsthand knowledge that Lebanon was a Pro-American Liberal democracy. It had a very favorable attitude towards the United States. Unfortunately, after we held Israel's hand while they systematically killed fleeing civilians on CNN, the view of many towards us dimmed. Support for Hezbollah skyrocketed, even though before the US Backed and Supported Israeli onslaught they were looked at with disdain and were well on their way to becoming irrelevant. We helped make them relevant. We helped gain them support. Any Hezbollah victory against Israel was celebrated by everyone, be they Muslim, Christian, or Druze.

You can't ever solve a problem by force, you stupid fuck. For every one that you murder, more will take his place. How about we get the FUCK out of their countries, STop stealing their land and resources, and instead HELP them. We have NEVER approached the Middle East with anything other than the motive to expoit.

You will NEVER get it. The British got it right; "The People are the Prize". That's why Basra is the only success story in Iraq outside Kurdistan. Oh, and talking to your friends only and not bothering to engage your enemies is one of the most retarded policies a government can undertake.

We can't fight anyone else. Our Army is fatigued, soon to be broken. Nukes are an abomination, and out of the question. We can NEVER win the way we are going right now.

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
Stonewall you're making shit up...you made the assertion, you back it up...YOU show me evidence to back up what you said...you can't just make wild claims (if that's even what they were - it's hard for me to interpret your broken english) and then tell me I would know about it if i had paid attention when it happened...what the fuck is that?

you are amazing...explain to me what you were trying to say...i really have no idea you lazy lying fuck...

When the U.S. arrived in Indonesia the government of Indonesia facilitated Islamists travel and allowed them to set up right at the same airbase that the U.S. was using.

Here is two articles on this:

Strange bedfellows deliver tsunami aid

Fighters for God on a holy mission

Abba

I am by far barely a practicing Muslim. I will make you one guarantee, though. If ANYONE tries to pull ANY shit with me, and strips me of my American Birthright, I can guarantee you it will only happen over my cold, dead corpse.
It might be better for you if YOU left instead, since you obviously don't know dick about what is means to be an AMERICAN. Mongrels like you DON'T have a lock on America. In fact, it's creatures like you that the rest of US are trying to get rid of.
Maybe you should emigrate to Israel, since they think Just Like You. You'd be more comfortable their, with your supremacist peers, although if you're not a Jew, you'd most likely be a second class citizen, but hey, no Muslims.

Hater

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
When the U.S. arrived in Indonesia the government of Indonesia facilitated Islamists travel and allowed them to set up right at the same airbase that the U.S. was using.

Here is two articles on this:

Strange bedfellows deliver tsunami aid

Fighters for God on a holy mission

These two stories have nothing to do with what I said and they entirely unrelated to the debate at hand...wow, you really are a moron...

FatesWebb

so your answer is state sponsored racism? and giving up of american core values? (meltingpot)

Stonewall

Criticize the plan all you want. In time it will be clear that the War on Terror cannot be won. The only thing that will occur is futher attacks on the U.S.. Bigger and Bigger.

I do agree with any and all who say my plan will not be carried out, at least not right now. We will be forced to suffer devastating attacks before we finally admit we have a problem here. We refuse to actually believe what Muslims say. We do not want to believe it, no way, can't be. It's all our fault.

Tell us Abba how it's all our fault.

Abba

Wow, yeah, you really proved a point :rolleyes:
SO, some of the fundementalist Murdering Muslims went to Help???? That's insane, isn't it? After all, Islam is all about blood and slaughter, right? It makes NO sense that they would try to help in the wake of the disaster...

You're so fuckin stupid that you shot yourself in the foot, moron. You only proved that Fundementalists care about more than killing people.
From YOUR link:
They are from Java, small and wiry, and they call themselves mujahideen, Fighters for God. What they are doing here has given religious fundamentalism a new dimension, for it is unlikely there could be a better example of men acting out a faith deeply held....
....
Speaking about his mission to find the dead, Abu Hani says: "In my heart I am full of sorrow."

He is 40, father of two, co-owner of a printing workshop in Jakarta, a middle-class man of peace.

"At first we think it is not possible, we cannot do this, and then we realised that we cannot leave this to the Acehnese to do, not their own families, we must do it for them, and with the spirit of God we can."

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
These two stories have nothing to do with what I said and they entirely unrelated to the debate at hand...wow, you really are a moron...

You asked for proof.

Tell me, proof of what?

FatesWebb

Quote: Originally posted by Abba
I am by far barely a practicing Muslim. I will make you one guarantee, though. If ANYONE tries to pull ANY shit with me, and strips me of my American Birthright, I can guarantee you it will only happen over my cold, dead corpse.
It might be better for you if YOU left instead, since you obviously don't know dick about what is means to be an AMERICAN. Mongrels like you DON'T have a lock on America. In fact, it's creatures like you that the rest of US are trying to get rid of.
Maybe you should emigrate to Israel, since they think Just Like You. You'd be more comfortable their, with your supremacist peers, although if you're not a Jew, you'd most likely be a second class citizen, but hey, no Muslims.

While I am not muslim, nor am I christian, I will fight right next to you. There is an old saying...

First they came for the Muslims, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Muslim.

Then they came to detain immigrants indefinitely solely upon the certification of the Attorney General, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an immigrant.

Then they came to eavesdrop on suspects consulting with their attorneys, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a suspect.

Then they came to prosecute non-citizens before secret military commissions, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a non-citizen.

Then they came to enter homes and offices for unannounced "sneak and peek" searches, and I didn't speak up because I had nothing to hide.

Then they came to reinstate Cointelpro and resume the infiltration and surveillance of domestic religious and political groups, and I didn't speak up because I had stopped participating in any groups.

Then they came for anyone who objected to government policy because it aided the terrorists and gave ammunition to America's enemies, and I didn't speak up because...... I didn't speak up.

Then they came for me....... and by that time no one was left to speak up.

angrychink

how about

proof of why dumbya should say something fucking stupid like....

we're winnin

SaintJimmy

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Criticize the plan all you want. In time it will be clear that the War on Terror cannot be won. The only thing that will occur is futher attacks on the U.S.. Bigger and Bigger.

I do agree with any and all who say my plan will not be carried out, at least not right now. We will be forced to suffer devastating attacks before we finally admit we have a problem here. We refuse to actually believe what Muslims say. We do not want to believe it, no way, can't be. It's all our fault.

Tell us Abba how it's all our fault.

Wow.

I thought for a short time that stonewall was actually able to carry on a rational conversation, be I can see now that was just a pipedream.

He's an idiot.

Abba

How do you NOT Get it?!?!?
If you antagonize a People for long enough, they WILL strike back at you. Holy fuck, you're not too sharp, is ya?

If you're not a man, that's not my fault. But I can unequivocally tell you that if someone fucks with me, no matter how big they are, I'm going to Fuck them right back.
Ask anyone, and they'll tell you the same.

The unspoken truth is that before 9/11 the overwhelming majority of Americans had no clue what was done in their name, and now the WHOLE Nation is percieved to be an enemy.
That's it, and frankly, I don't give a shit if you can't comprehend that.

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Wow, yeah, you really proved a point :rolleyes:
SO, some of the fundementalist Murdering Muslims went to Help???? That's insane, isn't it? After all, Islam is all about blood and slaughter, right? It makes NO sense that they would try to help in the wake of the disaster...

You're so fuckin stupid that you shot yourself in the foot, moron. You only proved that Fundementalists care about more than killing people.
From YOUR link:
They are from Java, small and wiry, and they call themselves mujahideen, Fighters for God. What they are doing here has given religious fundamentalism a new dimension, for it is unlikely there could be a better example of men acting out a faith deeply held....
....
Speaking about his mission to find the dead, Abu Hani says: "In my heart I am full of sorrow."

He is 40, father of two, co-owner of a printing workshop in Jakarta, a middle-class man of peace.

"At first we think it is not possible, we cannot do this, and then we realised that we cannot leave this to the Acehnese to do, not their own families, we must do it for them, and with the spirit of God we can."

Abba,

I never said all that they care about is killing people.

And, the best part of the article you leave out:

Abu Hani and his men are volunteers. They don't have to be there, they can walk away. And yet each morning they line up like soldiers outside their compound of rented homes, shout "Allahu akbar" (God is great) and climb aboard a truck. Many wear shirts that proclaim "Osama bukun teroris" (Osama not terrorist). They number 150, members of one of Indonesia's most aggressive Muslim organisations, Majelis Mujahideen Indonesia (MMI), founded by cleric Abu Bakar Bashir, who is on trial for terrorism, claimed by the Bali bombers as their spiritual leader. More than 1000 clerics back MMI.

See T-Shirts. You don't remember seeing them T-Shirts when those Tsunami victims were getting U.S. supplies, it was a wonder.

Anyway I don't blame Muslims they are doing what they are taught and what Allah demands of them, even if that means slamming planes into buildings.

Hater

Stonewall...let's break this down...

1) you began this debate...
2) how do we win the war on terror...
3) i said we win the hearts and minds...
4) i gave example of when this policy worked, after we donated large sums of money to tsunami damaged areas with high muslim populations
5) our aid created a positive impression of the US - this is a tiny step toward ending terrorism - the more positive impressions we can spread, the harder it will be to recruit terrorists

6) Your response to this claim by me was that our navy got chased away and there were guys getting aid that had on Osama t-shirts - I have no idea what this had to do with anything but you said it...
7) I asked you for proof concerning the above statements...instead you linked to articles of muslim groups giving aid side by side with the US.

You are a fucking idiot who can't even follow a simple conversation...jesus christ you vomit so much bullshit you can't even remember what you said 30 minutes ago...

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Abba
How do you NOT Get it?!?!?
If you antagonize a People for long enough, they WILL strike back at you. Holy fuck, you're not too sharp, is ya?

If you're not a man, that's not my fault. But I can unequivocally tell you that if someone fucks with me, no matter how big they are, I'm going to Fuck them right back.
Ask anyone, and they'll tell you the same.

The unspoken truth is that before 9/11 the overwhelming majority of Americans had no clue what was done in their name, and now the WHOLE Nation is percieved to be an enemy.
That's it, and frankly, I don't give a shit if you can't comprehend that.

Yep all our fault.

Just like it was all the fault of those crazy Arab infidels who just happened to run across Muhammad back in the 7th century. He did not take rejection well.

It is no surprise you would make statements you do about 9/11. I expect Muslims to champion the cause.

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
Stonewall...let's break this down...

1) you began this debate...
2) how do we win the war on terror...
3) i said we win the hearts and minds...
4) i gave example of when this policy worked, after we donated large sums of money to tsunami damaged areas with high muslim populations
5) our aid created a positive impression of the US - this is a tiny step toward ending terrorism - the more positive impressions we can spread, the harder it will be to recruit terrorists

6) Your response to this claim by me was that our navy got chased away and there were guys getting aid that had on Osama t-shirts - I have no idea what this had to do with anything but you said it...
7) I asked you for proof concerning the above statements...instead you linked to articles of muslim groups giving aid side by side with the US.

You are a fucking idiot who can't even follow a simple conversation...jesus christ you vomit so much bullshit you can't even remember what you said 30 minutes ago...

I know. Hearts and Minds. Our Navy did not get chased out, we left.

When relief fights belief

There is nothing we can do to change hearts and minds.

tom sizemore

I likes, then we can concentrate on getting rid of hindus, then sikhs and eventually work our way to the niggers...

angrychink

stonewall

do you agree though

that the US should never again let pussy chickenhawk failure cowards dictate a war policy?

ever seen an admin with a higher percentage of chickenhawks?

Abba

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Yep all our fault.

Just like it was all the fault of those crazy Arab infidels who just happened to run across Muhammad back in the 7th century. He did not take rejection well.

It is no surprise you would make statements you do about 9/11. I expect Muslims to champion the cause.

You come from a place rooted in science fiction. If the basic premises you're operating with are fraudulent, you can't expect to get concrete results.

No one out of the blue declares you their enemy. Period. There must be a cause. Again, i really don't give a shit if you get it or not, but Israel is the thorn in the ME's side. It came into existence ILLEGALLY, on the horrors of the Palestinians.
After we openly began to side with israel constantly, and after we began to support tyrants with money and influence, people began hating us.
We have NEVER been a positive influence in the Middle East. please, since you're SO fuckin wise, show me where we've ever done anything positive for the people in that region. I can show you literally hundreds of different actions we've taken that have harmed those people.

Don't sarcastically say "yep, all our fault" like you know something. Unless it's posted on you're right wing hate sites, you don't know shit. You are, as you have always been, unarmed son. Don't you ever get sick of making a fool of yourself?

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Abba
You come from a place rooted in science fiction. If the basic premises you're operating with are fraudulent, you can't expect to get concrete results.

No one out of the blue declares you their enemy. Period. There must be a cause. Again, i really don't give a shit if you get it or not, but Israel is the thorn in the ME's side. It came into existence ILLEGALLY, on the horrors of the Palestinians.
After we openly began to side with israel constantly, and after we began to support tyrants with money and influence, people began hating us.
We have NEVER been a positive influence in the Middle East. please, since you're SO fuckin wise, show me where we've ever done anything positive for the people in that region. I can show you literally hundreds of different actions we've taken that have harmed those people.

Don't sarcastically say "yep, all our fault" like you know something. Unless it's posted on you're right wing hate sites, you don't know shit. You are, as you have always been, unarmed son. Don't you ever get sick of making a fool of yourself?

You are correct that it does not just happen, out of the blue. We part company right at that point however.

Qutb.

He was creating hatred for the U.S. way before we began our current Israeli support. He lived here and went home with hatred. A case can be made right there that if we create terrorists it's because we let them in the U.S.. But, we did not create Israel or the so called Palestinian problem. That is due to losing wars. The Arabs could have easily have created a State of Palestine long ago. Even at the point of partition and even better when the Arab States attacked in 1948. At that point the U.S. did not supply Israel or help in any way at all. They did not win because of help. They had one airplane from the czechs. They beat all the Arab Armies.

Blame your leadership.

Timmy

People buy into this propaganda that they "hate our freedom." Thats such bullshit. You think they attacked us cause we are having too much fun??? The muslim extremists have enough domestic stryfe to deal with. They dont care what we are doing on the other side of the planet.

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Timmy
People buy into this propaganda that they "hate our freedom." Thats such bullshit. You think they attacked us cause we are having too much fun??? The muslim extremists have enough domestic stryfe to deal with. They dont care what we are doing on the other side of the planet.

That does sound insane... they hate us for our freedom. But they do. And they say they do and teach that.

Individual freedom is very bad.

Timmy

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
That does sound insane... they hate us for our freedom. But they do. And they say they do and teach that.

Individual freedom is very bad.

Yeah lots of people dont like the US. But to really hate the US to a point of violence is a different story. Our godlessness alone aint enough to attack us.

There are all sorts of infidel countries that they dont attack. We arent the least mulim country in the world.

Billyfromsphily

They want Budweiser and strippers like us! Its just that they can't admit it!

Just jealousy !

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Timmy
Yeah lots of people dont like the US. But to really hate the US to a point of violence is a different story. Our godlessness alone aint enough to attack us.

There are all sorts of infidel countries that they dont attack. We arent the least mulim country in the world.

The problem is we have to be defeated before they can have their way. If your an Islamist we are your greatest enemy because in order to win you have to kill America. Thats it. The other countries do not matter. You have to get the U.S. to be out of your way. Then you can begin the fight. Our destruction is but the end of the beginning. This is about power and always has been. We have it, they want it.

This is not about pacification. Hearts and Minds. To think that way is to think we can pacify Nazi's. We can win the hearts and minds of Germans in 1939.

Hater

stonewall...the hearts and minds debates works perfectly for the nazis...thanks for bringing it up..

if we had treated the german people with respect after world war 1 instead of shitting all over them and throwing their country into extreme poverty, then the nazi party would have never had the popular support to take control of the country in the late 1930s...

This is a perfect example where had we and the other allies attempted to win the hearts and minds of the germans in the years after world war 1, the Nazis would have never come to power....FACT...

Hater

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
The problem is we have to be defeated before they can have their way. If your an Islamist we are your greatest enemy because in order to win you have to kill America. Thats it. The other countries do not matter. You have to get the U.S. to be out of your way. Then you can begin the fight. Our destruction is but the end of the beginning. This is about power and always has been. We have it, they want it.

This is not about pacification. Hearts and Minds. To think that way is to think we can pacify Nazi's. We can win the hearts and minds of Germans in 1939.

you are great at countering your own baseless claims...haha...

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
stonewall...the hearts and minds debates works perfectly for the nazis...thanks for bringing it up..

if we had treated the german people with respect after world war 1 instead of shitting all over them and throwing their country into extreme poverty, then the nazi party would have never had the popular support to take control of the country...

This is a perfect example where had we and the other allies attempted to win the hearts and minds of the germans in the years after world war 1, the Nazis would have never come to power....FACT...

I don't disagree with that. But, I would only add by 1939 it was not possible anymore. And in our situation it is always 1939. Because it is too late. If it ever was possible that ended long long ago. Decades ago.

We are in a situation now where it only gets worse.

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
you are great at countering your own baseless claims...haha...

Don't worry about me, show the "baseless".

booybob

nuke all the sandniggers :D

Hater

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
I don't disagree with that. But, I would only add by 1939 it was not possible anymore. And in our situation it is always 1939. Because it is too late. If it ever was possible that ended long long ago. Decades ago.

We are in a situation now where it only gets worse.

Could you please explain how this is not possible anymore? Could you further elaborate on your claim that the situation we are currently in is in any way similar to 1939 Germany...i fail to see how a small group of loosely based terrorist groups hidden in the mountains of pakistan and africa are in any way as big of a threat to the world as the Nazis in 1939...

Explain yourself...

Timmy

Stoney,

By your reasoning, shouldnt all muslim countries hate america? They dont. In fact we are really cool with alot of them.

Methinks you make this assumption that all muslims are extremeist muslims.

Ass Boil

The "war on terror" is a myth. You may as well declare war on "lust" or unicorns.....

Hater

you are correct ass boil...i have one idea how to limit the effectiveness of terrorists though...stop doing things like sending insane amounts of straight cash to Iraq with absolutely zero oversight...i'd be interested to know how much of that American money was used to kill American troops...

Stonewall still waiting for your explanation...take your time, I'm sure you have some serious googling to do...

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
Could you please explain how this is not possible anymore? Could you further elaborate on your claim that the situation we are currently in is in any way similar to 1939 Germany...i fail to see how a small group of loosely based terrorist groups hidden in the mountains of pakistan and africa are in any way as big of a threat to the world as the Nazis in 1939...

Explain yourself...

The Germany was brought up only to describe the futility of a Hearts and Minds campaign. You do realize that?

I would not just rest on the idea that our problem is simply a few idiots hiding in caves. That would be an incorrect description. This is nations. Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, Jordon, Syria, Arabia, etc.. If an election were held tomorrow Islamist Governments would spring up in all of those places. This is not just a few people.

This is not new. Only rediscovered. The basic Islamic teachings are what drives them. The notion that the more "originalist" they become the more likely to recieve the blessing of victory.

We are dealing with a mindset that is not easily understood and cannot be explained by simple things we blame ourselves for. We are the enemy because we are not Muslim.

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
The "war on terror" is a myth. You may as well declare war on "lust" or unicorns.....

It is a myth in a way.

The War is actually called the "War against the Jews and Crusaders".

Hater

The Germany was brought up only to describe the futility of a Hearts and Minds campaign. You do realize that?

RIGHT and I promptly countered you to show that the hearts and mind is not futile and had we take that approach in the years after world war 1 the Nazis would have never come to power...

I know why you used the Nazi example, but it was wrong, which I pointed out...I then asked you to explain to me perhaps why you might be right...how can you not see this?

Explain why it's too late and how the current global situation is in any way similar to 1939 Germany...

ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTIONS - YOU CAN'T BE AS STUPID AS YOU PRETEND TO BE..SEE BELOW TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY:

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
I don't disagree with that. But, I would only add by 1939 it was not possible anymore. And in our situation it is always 1939. Because it is too late. If it ever was possible that ended long long ago. Decades ago.

We are in a situation now where it only gets worse.

Could you please explain how this is not possible anymore? Could you further elaborate on your claim that the situation we are currently in is in any way similar to 1939 Germany...i fail to see how a small group of loosely based terrorist groups hidden in the mountains of pakistan and africa are in any way as big of a threat to the world as the Nazis in 1939...

Explain yourself...

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
The Germany was brought up only to describe the futility of a Hearts and Minds campaign. You do realize that?

RIGHT and I promptly countered you to show that the hearts and mind is not futile and had we take that approach in the years after world war 1 the Nazis would have never come to power...

I know why you used the Nazi example, but it was wrong, which I pointed out...I then asked you to explain to me perhaps why you might be right...how can you not see this?

Explain why it's too late and how the current global situation is in any way similar to 1939 Germany...

ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTIONS - YOU CAN'T BE AS STUPID AS YOU PRETEND TO BE..SEE BELOW TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY:

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
I don't disagree with that. But, I would only add by 1939 it was not possible anymore. And in our situation it is always 1939. Because it is too late. If it ever was possible that ended long long ago. Decades ago.

We are in a situation now where it only gets worse.

Could you please explain how this is not possible anymore? Could you further elaborate on your claim that the situation we are currently in is in any way similar to 1939 Germany...i fail to see how a small group of loosely based terrorist groups hidden in the mountains of pakistan and africa are in any way as big of a threat to the world as the Nazis in 1939...

Explain yourself...

It is not possible anymore because radicalization is the name of the game now. We are too far down the road to pacify. The only pacification now would be perhaps destroying Israel for them. Maybe invading Kashmir and handing that to them. Convincing Russia that Chechnya needs to be given up. The Philippines need to give up. There are many fronts. These very particular Muslims attacked the U.S. but that is just one problem. We are viewed as the head of the snake. And, all these groups hate us because we support every nation they are fighting. People say that we are hated because we support evil regimes. I do not deny that we do support regimes they see as evil, but we would have to cave everywhere. The list never ends.

Hater

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
It is not possible anymore because radicalization is the name of the game now. We are too far down the road to pacify. The only pacification now would be perhaps destroying Israel for them. Maybe invading Kashmir and handing that to them. Convincing Russia that Chechnya needs to be given up. The Philippines need to give up. There are many fronts. These very particular Muslims attacked the U.S. but that is just one problem. We are viewed as the head of the snake. And, all these groups hate us because we support every nation they are fighting. People say that we are hated because we support evil regimes. I do not deny that we do support regimes they see as evil, but we would have to cave everywhere. The list never ends.

ok so this is the best i can get...at least you tried to say something related to the discussion...

unfortunately I don't see how what you've said means that it's too late..."because radicalization is the name of the game" ??... I don't know what this means...

But what i do know is that there aren't that many terrorists in the world...at least 90% of Muslims are not terrorists...seems to me like it's not even close to too late...

I still desperately wish that you would explain your 1939 Germany Comparison...

SO in easy english so you can understand...if less than 10% of the global muslim population are terrorists, how is it too late to win the hearts and minds?

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
ok so this is the best i can get...at least you tried to say something related to the discussion...

unfortunately I don't see how what you've said means that it's too late..."because radicalization is the name of the game" ??... I don't know what this means...

But what i do know is that there aren't that many terrorists in the world...at least 90% of Muslims are not terrorists...seems to me like it's not even close to too late...

I still desperately wish that you would explain your 1939 Germany Comparison...

SO in easy english so you can understand...if less than 10% of the global muslim population are terrorists, how is it too late to win the hearts and minds?

What would the Hearts and Minds Campaign look like? What would you do?

Once again on Germany, by 1939 the world had already given Germany victories for free. His population was behind him. He had done the impossible by 1939.

Radical Islam is winning. We have given them victories. You say 90% of Muslims are not terrorists. I will counter by saying the rest just support them. Because they are winners. We have backed down at every chance, they have never backed down.

Hater

Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
What would the Hearts and Minds Campaign look like? What would you do?

Once again on Germany, by 1939 the world had already given Germany victories for free. His population was behind him. He had done the impossible by 1939.

Radical Islam is winning. We have given them victories. You say 90% of Muslims are not terrorists. I will counter by saying the rest just support them. Because they are winners. We have backed down at every chance, they have never backed down.

Do you have any evidence for anything that you say? How is Radical Islam winning? What the fuck are you talking about?

Do you have some evidence to prove that all Muslims support radical islamists? How exactly are they winners?

You want some ideas on how to gain Muslim support for America, and in doing so, limit terrorism (although since you never even actually respond to the debate I have no idea why I'm wasting my time):

1) Don't blindly support Israel no matter what they do...Lebanon is a progressive middle eastern state that have democracy which is supposedly what we are spreading in the middle east...we should not have let Israel shit all over them for no reason...we should support progressive states like lebanon...supporting the 80% of lebanese that don't support Hezbollah will further marginalize teh terrorist group...instead we allowed israel to bomb everyday Lebanese civilians indiscriminantly, which only increased support for Hezbollah...sweet...

2) Get the fuck out of Iraq and let it be known we will not be keeping a permanent base there...but before we go we need to actually repair some of the infrastructure instead of wasting all of our money on bullshit projects and corruption...i.e. build water treatment plants, schools, communal buildings, and any other amenities these Iraqi towns might need or might have been destroyed in the course of the war, etc. this will show that we are genuinely trying to help the people

3) Get rid of the oppressive taliban regime in order to allow the normal citizens of afghanistan to live freely and without fear...they will appreciate our efforts...

that's three off the top of my head...there are many mroe that i will post as they come...

angrychink

that's just the advantage or disadvantage with repuke philosophy...

it is an advantage, because...they can ignorantly and self righteously assign their stupid fucking hatred on anybody, without any facts...they do so, just out of spite and hatred for anybody who doesn't lick bush's ass like they do

it is a disadvantage because when faced with facts, they flail, indiscriminately

watch out

enimim

Bush can never win thit war, since his attitude, and personality, and advisors, and his superego (which must be 0!), and ect. ect.

Terrorism is like darkness. and darkness doesn't really exist, is only the absence of light, we CANt remove darkness, only if we bring light in!

Terrorism is the absence of harmony, or peace (in the world) , and the only way we can "remove "it, to bring harmony, but suely not with a war!

i might not have been very articultate, but that is i think the only way

enimim

Hater, why is your username Hater??

Hater

Quote: Originally posted by enimim
Bush can never win thit war, since his attitude, and personality, and advisors, and his superego (which must be 0!), and ect. ect.

Terrorism is like darkness. and darkness doesn't really exist, is only the absence of light, we CANt remove darkness, only if we bring light in!

Terrorism is the absence of harmony, or peace (in the world) , and the only way we can "remove "it, to bring harmony, but suely not with a war!

i might not have been very articultate, but that is i think the only way

I think you make a great point and I think the comparison is perfect...the longer we ignore this reality the stronger the terrorists will get...violence begets violence...

but it's not even a peace vs. war issue, it's just the rational way to defeat terrorism...

bush et al. fight the war on terror with this mantra...if we kill all the terroists, we win the war on terror...however, they forget that these terrorists have families and come from communities, so in killing one terrorist there's always the chance we could make many more...

take for instance Hezbollah...if i lived in southern lebanon I might not have supported Hezbollah before the most recent israel attacks...however, if my house was destroyed by israel and then Hezbollah came through giving me cash to get a new house, I might then support Hezbollah...it's simple human behavior...

Stonewall

Quote: Originally posted by Hater
Do you have any evidence for anything that you say? How is Radical Islam winning? What the fuck are you talking about?

Do you have some evidence to prove that all Muslims support radical islamists? How exactly are they winners?

You want some ideas on how to gain Muslim support for America, and in doing so, limit terrorism (although since you never even actually respond to the debate I have no idea why I'm wasting my time):

1) Don't blindly support Israel no matter what they do...Lebanon is a progressive middle eastern state that have democracy which is supposedly what we are spreading in the middle east...we should not have let Israel shit all over them for no reason...we should support progressive states like lebanon...supporting the 80% of lebanese that don't support Hezbollah will further marginalize teh terrorist group...instead we allowed israel to bomb everyday Lebanese civilians indiscriminantly, which only increased support for Hezbollah...sweet...

2) Get the fuck out of Iraq and let it be known we will not be keeping a permanent base there...but before we go we need to actually repair some of the infrastructure instead of wasting all of our money on bullshit projects and corruption...i.e. build water treatment plants, schools, communal buildings, and any other amenities these Iraqi towns might need or might have been destroyed in the course of the war, etc. this will show that we are genuinely trying to help the people

3) Get rid of the oppressive taliban regime in order to allow the normal citizens of afghanistan to live freely and without fear...they will appreciate our efforts...

that's three off the top of my head...there are many mroe that i will post as they come...

Lets look at your number one...

Lebanon was a very nice place at one time. Then the Lebanese allowed in the PLO. They were tossed from Jordon and Lebanon allowed the PLO to use them for attacks on Israel. Israel attacked drove out the PLO and Iran involved itself, created Hezbollah and they began to attack Israel. While I would not say Israel is perfect by any means I see no side to support, other than Israel. There is no partner in Peace. There never was. It is untrue that we do not wish for peace, we have bought and paid for peace between Israel and Egypt. We would do it again. Even Clinton admits what occured during the 1990's.

Iraq and the Taliban.

We were attacked on 9/11. Thats before the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, we already had these problems when we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Taliban problem will never be solved. The best we can hope for there is some sort of agreement with them. Forever there will be a steady stream of fellow Muslims attacking us there. It's a state of mind instead of just "the Taliban". Deobandi Islam is home there. And Pakistan. We might as well say we are going to help the Afghans rid themselves of Afghans.

Proof of how all Muslims think. Thats hard. I know there was an Al Jazeera poll where 50% loved bin Laden. There are other polls out there. Even if we go with your 90% thing that other 10% is a pretty huge number. And, I'm not convinced the other 90% are on our side. Certainly I can't see that.

Hater

Quote: Originally posted by enimim
Hater, why is your username Hater??

Because I'm a hater...i originally chose this name when I was posting on a hatred filled conservative blog, and my name reflected my attitude toward the belief systems of those ignorant neocons...I am a hater of republicans, conservatives, the right wing, red states, etc....

Johnny Fartto

Stop invading and occupying their countries, killing their civilians, stealing their resources, and subverting their political processes. :rolleyes:

If, on the other hand, you want to keeping invading and occupying their countries, killing their civilians, stealing their resources and subverting their political processes, don't be surprised that they will try to figure out a way to hurt you back.

BeaverPleaser

one or two nuclear bombs should do the trick.BOOM no more terrorists. Make a big beach out of all those countries.