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In Defense Of Walmart
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| In Defense Of Walmart
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| Psychomike |
I spoke to one of the heads of the anti- Walmart movement and I asked him if they drove those stores out where would all the people they hire work at?
He said he thought the factories would come back to hire the labor.
From overseas.
That's the plan.
There are not enough words in the english language for me to express what I think of the long term plan after getting rid of Walmart.
When I was a kid, of 15, my first job was minimum wage. It gave me the chance to learn how to act at a job.
Just like millions of kids my age.
As the minimum wage went up, the ages changed. I was used to seeing 17, 19, 20 year olds at minimum wage jobs. Then I started noticing more and more 15, 17, 19, 20 year olds on the streets with gangs.
Now I go to a minimum wage job, and I see retirees and people my age.
And I am told not to worry about the kids. Give those at minimum wage a "decent wage".
Suburban kids who can get a minimum wage job now have to pay no rent at home, no bills, and they will be taking home $10 an hour. That is how they can afford ecstacy at $40 a tab, $400 an ounce for pot, etc. Poor kids just don't get hired.
So I asked the anti-Walmart leader that I knew, my experience from living in poor areas that stores in the hood before Walmart were few and far between in those areas, and usually never hired more than a couple of people. If Walmart didn't give them a job, where would all these hundreds of people they hire work?
The factories will be back, he told me.
Sick. |
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| artie84 |
| 40 a pill and 400 a oz...man your getting ripped off |
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| Monster_Zero |
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| Psychomike |
Have you ever been in a working class neighborhood Monster Zero?
Most of the stores hire their relatives.
No one lost a high paying job when Walmart moved into the ghetto. |
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| Psychomike |
| By the way, when do you think the factory system will return, and why? |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Psychomike
Have you ever been in a working class neighborhood Monster Zero?
Most of the stores hire their relatives.
No one lost a high paying job when Walmart moved into the ghetto. |
Yes but money paid to those mom and pop shops gets recycled into the local economy. Now, the profits from those sales leave the local ecoomy and go to corporate. |
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| Psychomike |
Right.
The people that work there, hired from the hood, take their paychecks and invest in foreign companies.
Got it.
Ummmmm, wait a second.
If they have enough pay to take it abroad, or spend it outside the hood, how can it be too low?
Walmart by the way hires from the hood for security reasons- they usually already know who is trouble.
Hundreds cash their checks, and take their money out of the community.
Man, capitalism is working better than I ever thought! |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Psychomike
Right.
The people that work there, hired from the hood, take their paychecks and invest in foreign companies.
Got it.
Ummmmm, wait a second.
If they have enough pay to take it abroad, or spend it outside the hood, how can it be too low?
Walmart by the way hires from the hood for security reasons- they usually already know who is trouble.
Hundreds cash their checks, and take their money out of the community.
Man, capitalism is working better than I ever thought! |
I understand the knee jerk response that I am a lefty when you see me make that point on Walmart.
Allow me to state my crentials
1. 70% libertarian 20% conservative 10% populist
I think capitalism infinately better at making the world prosper that any other economic model
My heroes are Milton Friedman, Murry Rothbard and Adam Smith.
2. I believe there are some flaws in the Walmart model:
1. Walmart comes to town.
2. they can sell virtually anything cheaper because of bulk orders from places like China, which are much cheaper because they pay pernnies on the dollar to their 1.3 billion slaves. That is NOT FREE TRADE.
The cheaper prices drive the local stores out of buisness thus shifting money from the local service economy to Walmart central.
In many respects, the town is now depedent at least in the mid term(until it can rebuild itself) on the continued presence of one store.
Capitalism is the best gift from the heavens, But I thik we may have a difference on which scale of capitalism we most admire. |
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| Psychomike |
You haven't answered the question I raised.
If a box tax and minimum wage conspire to keep from hiring young, inexperienced workers, what plan will?
Do you really believe, as the leader in Chicago of the anti- Walmart group says, that the factory system will return if Walmart doesn't hire the workers? |
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| Psychomike |
In recent years, the TED conference has gained a reputation for blissfully big ideas buoyed by unrelenting optimism. So few conference goers were prepared for venture capitalist John Doerr to choke up with emotion as he kicked off the second day of talks on Mar. 9.
"I'm scared," he told the audience, looking down at his 15-year-old daughter in the front row. "I don't think we're going to make it."
Doerr issued a passionate call to action for everyone to make environmental concerns their "next big thing." As one of several positive examples, he praised Wal-Mart for making great moves to address what he called the three largest energy drains in business—heating and cooling systems, lighting, and refrigeration. The giant's initiative forced its 60,000 suppliers to focus on environmental issues as well, he said.
"Going green is the largest economic opportunity of the 21st century," said Doerr |
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| Monster_Zero |
Quote: Originally posted by Psychomike
Have you ever been in a working class neighborhood Monster Zero? |
I have lived in nothing but, all of my life...
Quote: Originally posted by Psychomike
Most of the stores hire their relatives. |
How many relatives can one family have? That may be true to a certain degree, but I worked in small businesses as a youth, my parents didn't own the place...
Quote: Originally posted by Psychomike
No one lost a high paying job when Walmart moved into the ghetto. |
For starters, Walmart doesn't move into the ghetto... they move into small town America... BIG difference (for now). The truth is; Walmart moves in, destroys any of the towns small businesses that compete directly, then smiles as they pick up the pieces... sometimes things like health or retirement benefits are also lost. Who picks up the tab for that? That's right, the gov'ment. That's the definition of corporate welfare...
Walmart represents everything that is wrong with Capitalism... primarily, unslakable GREED! I haven't set foot in a Walmart in years, and go way out of my way to make sure I never do. |
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| Psychomike |
So you want corporations to go green, but hate Walmart for it.
And you claim Walmart replaces mom and pop shops that- offered health care and insurance packages????
WHERE? In the ghetto? Are you insane? You are telling me that those dollar stores pay insurance and health care benefits?
Oh please. |
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| Psychomike |
It's no secret that city planners in communities across the nation have resisted attempts by Wal- Mart to open its doors. Wal-Mart has faced the strongest resistance to its "Super Centers" - its version of one-stop-shopping for food, clothing, electronics and every other imaginable product. It recently announced plans to open 40 new Super Centers in California.
Many city planners across California are undoubtedly preparing for a full-scale war against Wal- Mart. They'll argue that Wal-Mart Super Centers must be stopped because they put local mom-and-pop stores out of business and create only low-paying, non-union jobs. On those grounds, cities have fought tooth and nail to keep Wal-Mart out, sometimes succeeding and more often (thankfully) failing.
One small community in California, the city of Turlock, has already declared war on Wal-Mart's proposed Super Center there. But Turlock has gone to new lows. Its City Council passed an ordinance banning most new or expanding discount stores that exceed 100,000 square feet and devote more than 5 percent of their space to groceries and other nontaxable goods.
Sound familiar? Wal-Mart's superstore fits the bill to a T - and that's no coincidence. Turlock specifically targeted Wal-Mart with thisordinance.
Tired of having to defend its right to do business, Wal-Mart has gone on the offensive this time and sued to have the law struck down.
What is lost in all of the legal wrangling surrounding Wal-Mart's right to do business is the long list of benefits it showers on communities.
Wal-Mart is not, as many city planners would have their constituents believe, an evil empire intent on decimating local businesses, exploiting local workers and reaping an "undeserved" profit to line the pockets of its fat-cat executives.
Instead, it provides incredibly low prices for some of the most basic goods and services - something that benefits everyone in the community, especially the poorest segments of society who can afford only Wal-Mart prices.
It also has provided an impressive return for stockholders, who include Wal-Mart workers themselves and Main Street investors (some, no doubt, living right in Turlock).
But that's just stating the obvious.
What many don't know - and what city planners are afraid to reveal - is that Wal-Mart treats its employees quite well. Not only do employees receive competitive wages, they are also offered profit- sharing, a 401(k) plan, paid vacation and holidays, a discount card, medical and dental coverage, life insurance, accidental death and dismemberment coverage, short- and long-term disability insurance, free confidential professional counseling and assistance, scholarship bonuses and child-care discounts.
True, Wal-Mart does not have a union. But, again, that generally proves a benefit to the community at large. A unionized work force can cause prices to rise and customer service to decline, not to mention the threat of strikes and the social unrest for which unions are infamous.
Can anyone forget the mass strikes at unionized supermarkets in Southern California last year that made shopping a nightmare? Or the breakdown in negotiations between US Airways and its pilots union that recently forced the airline to go into bankruptcy?
Communities must see city officials' relentless attacks on Wal- Mart for what they are: a paternalistic policy that does nothing but deny entry-level employment opportunities to the those who need them the most; an attempt to keep out basic goods at affordable prices; and an assault on the right of Wal-Mart to do business.
Free markets and freedom of choice: These American values are the true victims of this war on the Wal-Marts of this world. Consumers must let their voices be heard and tell their city representatives to stop discriminating against businesses, large and small.
It's the American thing to do.
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3957 |
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| SaintJimmy |
Psychomike, you are a ignorant, pretentious, fucking blowhard.
I'm not going to explain why, (as I'm sure it fall on deaf ears anyway) just know that you are.
I'm actually considering putting you on ignore, because your posts are just a complete waste of time. Except the funny ones. Maybe I'll give you another chance. :D
Just one more, though. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero
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Would you have posted shit like this at the beginning of the 20th century when wagon makers were being forced out of business by automobile makers? |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by johnsonrod
Yes but money paid to those mom and pop shops gets recycled into the local economy. Now, the profits from those sales leave the local ecoomy and go to corporate. |
Oh so the money paid to the local wal-mart employee's just disappears? |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Oh so the money paid to the local wal-mart employee's just disappears? |
Hey, genius.
Wal mart does not equal wal mart employees.
Try again, fuckwit. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by johnsonrod
I understand the knee jerk response that I am a lefty when you see me make that point on Walmart.
Allow me to state my crentials
1. 70% libertarian 20% conservative 10% populist
I think capitalism infinately better at making the world prosper that any other economic model
My heroes are Milton Friedman, Murry Rothbard and Adam Smith.
2. I believe there are some flaws in the Walmart model:
1. Walmart comes to town.
2. they can sell virtually anything cheaper because of bulk orders from places like China, which are much cheaper because they pay pernnies on the dollar to their 1.3 billion slaves. That is NOT FREE TRADE.
The cheaper prices drive the local stores out of buisness thus shifting money from the local service economy to Walmart central.
In many respects, the town is now depedent at least in the mid term(until it can rebuild itself) on the continued presence of one store.
Capitalism is the best gift from the heavens, But I thik we may have a difference on which scale of capitalism we most admire. |
Wal-Mart's competitors can compete in other ways than just pricing. They can offer different services, better service, cleaner and better stocked stores and better quality items (for the most part). Obviously a DVD from one store is the same from one to the next but stuff like clothing from Wal-Mart I would not expect to hold up to the standard of say oh I dunno, Old Navy. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
Hey, genius.
Wal mart does not equal wal mart employees.
Try again, fuckwit. |
Are you that fucking dumb?
Hey "fuckwit", who pays the Wal-Mart employee's? That would be Wal-Mart the company.
And where does Wal-Mart get the money to pay them? That would be from the customers of their store. So people from the community who shop there are indirectly paying the people from the community who work there. |
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| Monster_Zero |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Would you have posted shit like this at the beginning of the 20th century when wagon makers were being forced out of business by automobile makers? |
You're trying to compare the Industrial Revolution with what Walmart is doing to America? Well, that makes perfect sense, dosen't it? :rolleyes: |
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| jtheweirdo |
Quote: Originally posted by artie84
40 a pill and 400 a oz...man your getting ripped off |
I agree, geez he is getting raped at those prices. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Are you that fucking dumb?
Hey "fuckwit", who pays the Wal-Mart employee's? That would be Wal-Mart the company.
And where does Wal-Mart get the money to pay them? That would be from the customers of their store. So people from the community who shop there are indirectly paying the people from the community who work there. |
Hey, fuckwit.
Can you not the see the difference between ALL OF THE MONEY being spent locally by local store OWNERS, and A TINY FRACTION OF THE MONEY being spent locally and the rest being shipped to a far off corporate HQ?
Surely, you're not this thick, are you boy? |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero
You're trying to compare the Industrial Revolution with what Walmart is doing to America? Well, that makes perfect sense, dosen't it? :rolleyes: |
Yes, it's called the free-market. Look it up. :rolleyes: |
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| Monster_Zero |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Yes, it's called the free-market. Look it up. :rolleyes: |
:) Yes, please look up free market... then get back to us. :hw: |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Yes, it's called the free-market. Look it up. :rolleyes: |
Wow, another right-wing intellect who probably couldn't pass a fifth grade history exam. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
Hey, fuckwit.
Can you not the see the difference between ALL OF THE MONEY being spent locally by local store OWNERS, and A TINY FRACTION OF THE MONEY being spent locally and the rest being shipped to a far off corporate HQ?
Surely, you're not this thick, are you boy? |
You're situation is purely hypothetical and basically you have zero facts to back it up. You make it sound like mom & pop stores never spend their money elsewhere but in their own little microcosm. You also assume that all these profits made by Wal-Mart go overseas and somehow are lost to American's. Don't you think that money gets spents elswhere in America? Afterall if they are paying slave wages to overseas laborers then they must be doing something with the rest of that money since I am pretty sure they aren't fucking stuffing mattresses with it.
Secondly, why shouldn't I have the choice of going somewhere where I can buy something cheaper that will save ME money rather than going to Bob's Hardware and being an overpriced hammer? Corporations are in business to make money. How the fuck can you begrudge them for having a successful business model? It's not like they are holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to work there OR to go out of business. Capitalism means competition so take your socialistic views and shove them up your ass and move to Cuba or North Korea where you can live the socialist dream. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
Wow, another right-wing intellect who probably couldn't pass a fifth grade history exam. |
Gee, you SURE got me there considering your best arguments are straw men and ad-hominems. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero
:) Yes, please look up free market... then get back to us. :hw: |
I already know what it means. That's why I cited it. However, judging from your posts, you do not. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
You're situation is purely hypothetical and basically you have zero facts to back it up. You make it sound like mom & pop stores never spend their money elsewhere but in their own little microcosm. You also assume that all these profits made by Wal-Mart go overseas and somehow are lost to American's. Don't you think that money gets spents elswhere in America? Afterall if they are paying slave wages to overseas laborers then they must be doing something with the rest of that money since I am pretty sure they aren't fucking stuffing mattresses with it.
Secondly, why shouldn't I have the choice of going somewhere where I can buy something cheaper that will save ME money rather than going to Bob's Hardware and being an overpriced hammer? Corporations are in business to make money. How the fuck can you begrudge them for having a successful business model? It's not like they are holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to work there OR to go out of business. Capitalism means competition so take your socialistic views and shove them up your ass and move to Cuba or North Korea where you can live the socialist dream. |
Back in the early 20th century, there were people making that exact same argument.
They were called "the fathers of industry", and they employed young children in factories with inhuman working conditions for slave wages.
You see, socialism is necessary to a degree, mostly because of people like you, who see no problem with people employing young children to work 15-hour days in dangerous conditions.
I have no doubt that wal-mart would do that if it was legal, and someday, it may be - with the help of ignorant/uncaring people like you.
It's always good to set goals for yourself, I guess. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
Back in the early 20th century, there were people making that exact same argument.
They were called "the fathers of industry", and they employed young children in factories with inhuman working conditions for slave wages.
You see, socialism is necessary to a degree, mostly because of people like you, who see no problem with people employing young children to work 15-hour days in dangerous conditions.
I have no doubt that wal-mart would do that if it was legal, and someday, it may be - with the help of ignorant/uncaring people like you.
It's always good to set goals for yourself, I guess. |
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
I knew it. You're so fucking predictable and feeble. I've only been here a short time but I knew that after making my logical point you would respond with either an ad-hominem or a strawman argument and you did not fail to disappoint me. BTW, I love how you project shit onto me as well without even knowing me. |
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| Ltank |
Where did I quote socialists except to quote posters on this board in order to respond to those posts? |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
I knew it. You're so fucking predictable and feeble. I've only been here a short time but I knew that after making my logical point you would respond with either an ad-hominem or a strawman argument and you did not fail to disappoint me. BTW, I love how you project shit onto me as well without even knowing me. |
Logical point?
What logical point?
You asked a series of stupid questions that have been addressed and answered FUCKING YEARS AGO in something we like to call "this country's labor laws".
Feel free to look those up, and edumacate yourself. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
Logical point?
What logical point?
You asked a series of stupid questions that have been addressed and answered FUCKING YEARS AGO in something we like to call "this country's labor laws".
Feel free to look those up, and edumacate yourself. |
It's telling that almost all of your debate posts are under a paragraph long. You're full of shit, and you know it. Also, please show me where I advocated child-labor. Don't waste your time because I didn't. You simply try to lump that on me and expect the rest of the leftbots without even reading the rest of the thread to take your word for it.
You lose. |
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| Psychomike |
Hi Ltank:
This rhetoric is socialist:
Allow me to state my crentials
1. 70% libertarian 20% conservative 10% populist
I think capitalism infinately better at making the world prosper that any other economic model
(no problem there)
My heroes are Milton Friedman, Murry Rothbard and Adam Smith.
2. I believe there are some flaws in the Walmart model:
1. Walmart comes to town.
Nothing wrong with that. They have the right to conduct business without interference.
2. they can sell virtually anything cheaper because of bulk orders from places like China, which are much cheaper because they pay pernnies on the dollar to their 1.3 billion slaves. That is NOT FREE TRADE.
Whoa! Now we got a problem, First of all, China is the People's Paradise. It is a workers state. How can the workers be slaves? If the pay before the factories get there is LESS than pennies on the dollar, what have those factories done wrong?
The cheaper prices drive the local stores out of buisness thus shifting money from the local service economy to Walmart central.
That's a socialist argument. Period. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
It's telling that almost all of your debate posts are under a paragraph long. You're full of shit, and you know it. Also, please show me where I advocated child-labor. Don't waste your time because I didn't. You simply try to lump that on me and expect the rest of the leftbots without even reading the rest of the thread to take your word for it.
You lose. |
No, dimwit, I cited historical reasoning for the "socialist" labor laws that you seem to hate so much.
Because I'm not a long-winded pretentious blow-hard like mike, you hold that against me?
Oh, well. I guess I'll live.
If you win, we all lose. :rolleyes: |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by Psychomike
Hi Ltank:
This rhetoric is socialist:
Allow me to state my crentials
1. 70% libertarian 20% conservative 10% populist
I think capitalism infinately better at making the world prosper that any other economic model
(no problem there)
My heroes are Milton Friedman, Murry Rothbard and Adam Smith.
2. I believe there are some flaws in the Walmart model:
1. Walmart comes to town.
Nothing wrong with that. They have the right to conduct business without interference.
2. they can sell virtually anything cheaper because of bulk orders from places like China, which are much cheaper because they pay pernnies on the dollar to their 1.3 billion slaves. That is NOT FREE TRADE.
Whoa! Now we got a problem, First of all, China is the People's Paradise. It is a workers state. How can the workers be slaves? If the pay before the factories get there is LESS than pennies on the dollar, what have those factories done wrong?
The cheaper prices drive the local stores out of buisness thus shifting money from the local service economy to Walmart central.
That's a socialist argument. Period. |
That same argument can be made for all nationwide corporations then that have big name stores that compete with local mom & pop shops and I disagree that it is a socialistic viewpoint. How is a company with a successful business model that competes against smaller stores in any way socialism since there is no government interference and no redistribution of wealth between classes? |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
No, dimwit, I cited historical reasoning for the "socialist" labor laws that you seem to hate so much.
Because I'm not a long-winded pretentious blow-hard like mike, you hold that against me?
Oh, well. I guess I'll live.
If you win, we all lose. :rolleyes: |
I am still waiting for you to tell me where I am for child labor and against labor laws. Go on, strike me down with your evidence. |
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| Psychomike |
I think the Walmart model is brilliant and a truly revolutionary one at that.
Why Wal*Mart Works and why this makes some people C-R-A-Z-Y!
The world’s largest family consists of the nearly 1,300,000 people who work for Wal-Mart and service nearly 138-million shoppers every week. Consumers love a bargain, and their quest to save money has helped build Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. into the world's top retailer. From the company's humble beginnings in rural Arkansas to its leadership position in the economy, Wal-Mart has earned both a legion of supporters and a score of detractors. Some claim that Wal-Mart’s "always low prices" is bad for competitive retailers, while others feel that consumers should be allowed to decide with their pocketbooks. Regardless, no one can deny that Wal-Mart has made an impressive impact on America while helping millions of families and shoppers on a budget.
Documentary producers Ron and Robert Galloway present an insider's look at the world's largest company, and how Wal-Mart's quest for better pricing has created new efficiencies in distribution and an overall stronger marketplace. What makes Wal-Mart work? Is it better pricing, convenience, quality and selection? Perhaps, but the Galloways discover that the incredible family of Wal-Mart Associates may well be the company’s greatest asset of the all.
"We didn’t get where we are today by being like everyone else and driving the middle of the road. We became Wal-Mart by being different, radically different" – Wal-Mart C.E.O. Lee Scott
http://www.amazon.com/Mart-Works-th...e/dp/B000BWFSOA
Penn and Teller are doing a BULLSHIT episode on Walmart, and Walmart haters have already called on their supporters to stop watching the show.
They haven't even seen it yet! |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
I am still waiting for you to tell me where I am for child labor and against labor laws. Go on, strike me down with your evidence. |
If you defend Wal-Mart's "right" to do business anyway they want to, maybe you should first be aware of how they want to.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6958916/
Or, how about this:
Wal-Mart has repeatedly violated U.S. child labor laws and profited from overseas child labor abuses.
A recent investigation revealed children, some only 11 years old, were making Wal-Mart clothes in a Bangladesh factory. The children report being routinely slapped and beaten, forced to work 12 to 14 hours a day, often seven days a week, for wages as low as 6 and a half cents an hour.
In the United States, Wal-Mart's own internal audit found 1,371 instances in which minors worked too late at night, during school hours, or too many hours in a day. It also found 60,767 instances of workers missing breaks and 15,705 instances where employees were forced to work and miss meal times.
Despite all of this, Wal-Mart refuses to adopt a zero tolerance policy on child labor! Our children deserve better from Wal-Mart this holiday season.
Darlings! You’ll be ever so pleased to learn that a new, high-fashion super store has opened in America. It’s called Wal-Mart. Yes, the stodgy old downscale store has gone upscale, offering hip new clothing lines like Metro 7!
If you think anything has really changed, however, you might check the labels on these new glam goods to see if any are made in Bangladesh. If so, they might have come from a factory there by the name of Harvest Rich, which produces clothing for Wal-Mart and others.
There’s nothing at all hip about Harvest Rich—it’s a sweatshop that uses child labor. In a new investigative report, the National Labor Committee, a diligent watchdog group, has documented conditions in Harvest Rich that are grotesque, even by sweatshop standards. Approximately 200 children between 11 and 14 years old work in this factory, sewing garments under contract to the Wal-Marts.
The children are forced to work 12 to 14 hours a day, with some shifts going 20 hours. In all of September, these child laborers got just one day off. For the grueling long shifts, they are allowed only about four hours of sleep on the factory floor before being awakened and put back on the machines, sometimes collapsing from exhaustion. Their wages are as low as six cents an hour. They are routinely slapped or beaten if they don’t meet their production goals, make mistakes or even take too long in the bathroom.
Wal-Mart washes its hands of this by asserting that it has a “code of conduct” for its contractors, supposedly enforced by apparel industry monitors. Yet, Harvest Rich, which is certified by this group, shows yet again that corporate self-monitoring is an abysmal failure even at stopping the most disgusting practices.
Wal-Mart and Sweatshops
Many Americans believe the clothing purchased in U.S. Wal-Mart stores is manufactured in America. In fact, the majority of its private label clothing is manufactured in at least 48 countries around the world, but not in the U.S.
In his autobiography, Made in America: My Story founding Wal-Mart President, Sam Walton, proselytized "Buy American." USA Today, August 14, 2001, reported that, "Wal-Mart has more than 1,107 international operations." The newspaper also reports that, "Bangladesh workers earn as little as nine cents an hour making shirts for Wal-Mart.
Hypocritically, Wal-Mart ran a "Buy American" and "Buy Mexican" marketing campaigns simultaneously, all the while reinvesting its all-American dollars overseas.
Wal-Mart is the largest importer of Chinese goods. 10% of all Chinese imports are imported by Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart even established its own global procurement division this year, abandoning the pretense to its traditional "buy American" campaign. This team searches the globe for the cheapest raw materials, manufacturers and shipping routes. They allow Wal-Mart to relocate factories from one country to the next in its endless quest to squeeze countries for lower wages and cheaper goods. (LA Times 12/03)
U.S. manufactures have been forced to cut good jobs and eliminate entire operations when Wal-Mart shifts to contractors with poverty-level wages. At Master Lock, 250 union workers lost their jobs when Wal-Mart dropped the company's products and switched to an offshore competitor. (4/00)
Wal-Mart has such a strong command over the retail market that it alone affects the wages of many workers and the fate of many factories around the world. In a recent series the LA Times described how Wal-Mart's demands dictate lower wages, harder work, and longer hours, while eliminating jobs in factories from Honduras to China. No longer is this humongous corporation putting only America's factories out of business, it has now turned to pitting factories in countries around the world against each other in an impossible race to the bottom.
Wal-Mart was removed from KLD & Co.’s Domini 400 Social Index because of what it called ‘sweatshop conditions’ at its overseas vendors’ factories. KLD, which provides social research for institutional investors, said Wal-Mart hasn’t done enough to ensure that its vendors meet ‘adequate labor and human rights standards,’ according to a statement distributed by PR Newswire. KLD also cited charges that the company hasn’t been forthright about its involvement with a Chinese handbag manufacturer alleged to have subjected workers to 90-hour weeks, exceptionally low wages, and prison-like conditions. The Domini 400 is a benchmark index for measuring the effect of social screening on financial performance. (1/03)
Some of the abuses in foreign factories that produce goods for Wal-Mart include:
* Forced overtime
* Locked bathrooms
* Starvation wages
* Pregnancy tests
* Denial of access to health care
* Workers fired and blacklisted if they try to defend their rights
The National Labor Committee reported in September 1999 that the Kathie Lee clothing label (made for Wal-Mart by Caribbean Apparel, Santa Ana, El Salvador) conducted sweatshop conditions of forced overtime. Workers hours were Monday to Friday from 6:50 a.m. to 6:10 p.m., and Saturday from 6:50 a.m. to 5:40 p.m. There are occasional shifts to 9:40 p.m. It is common for the cutting and packing departments to work 20-hour shifts from 6:50 a.m. to 3:00 a.m. Anyone unable or refusing to work the overtime hours will be suspended and fined, and upon repeat "offenses" they will be fired. This factory is in an American Free Trade Zone. (http://www.nlcnet.org/KATHLEE/elsalvinfo.html)
Wal-Mart regularly says it does not tolerate child labor or forced or prison labor, but when it comes to walking the walk the company refuses to reveal its Chinese contractors and will not allow independent, unannounced inspections of its contractors’ facilities.
Clothing sewn in China is usually done by young women, 17 to 25 year old (at 25 they are fired as ‘too old’) forced to work seven days a week, often past midnight for 12 to 28 cents an hour, with no benefits. Or that the women are housed in crowded, dirty dormitories, 15 to a room, and fed a thin rice gruel. The workers are kept under 24-hour-a-day surveillance and can be fired for even discussing factory conditions. The factories in China operate under a veil of secrecy, behind locked metal gates, with no factory names posted and no visitors allowed. China’s authorities do not allow independent human rights, religious or women’s groups to exist, and all attempts to form independent unions have been crushed. (http://www.nlcnet.org, 10/22/02)
US Sweatshop Conditions
In October 10, 2002, the National Organization for Women (NOW) reported that the Maine Department of Labor ordered Wal-Mart to pay the largest fine in state history for violating child labor laws. The Department of Labor discovered 1,436 child labor law infractions at 20 Wal-Mart chains in the state.
If you're for wal-mart, you're for child-labor.
Feel that reality? Let it sink in real good. |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Wal-Mart's competitors can compete in other ways than just pricing. They can offer different services, better service, cleaner and better stocked stores and better quality items (for the most part). Obviously a DVD from one store is the same from one to the next but stuff like clothing from Wal-Mart I would not expect to hold up to the standard of say oh I dunno, Old Navy. |
Yeah but Wal-Mart usually overwhelmes the small shops. The odds are not in their favor. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by Psychomike
I think the Walmart model is brilliant and a truly revolutionary one at that.
Why Wal*Mart Works and why this makes some people C-R-A-Z-Y!
The world’s largest family consists of the nearly 1,300,000 people who work for Wal-Mart and service nearly 138-million shoppers every week. Consumers love a bargain, and their quest to save money has helped build Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. into the world's top retailer. From the company's humble beginnings in rural Arkansas to its leadership position in the economy, Wal-Mart has earned both a legion of supporters and a score of detractors. Some claim that Wal-Mart’s "always low prices" is bad for competitive retailers, while others feel that consumers should be allowed to decide with their pocketbooks. Regardless, no one can deny that Wal-Mart has made an impressive impact on America while helping millions of families and shoppers on a budget.
Documentary producers Ron and Robert Galloway present an insider's look at the world's largest company, and how Wal-Mart's quest for better pricing has created new efficiencies in distribution and an overall stronger marketplace. What makes Wal-Mart work? Is it better pricing, convenience, quality and selection? Perhaps, but the Galloways discover that the incredible family of Wal-Mart Associates may well be the company’s greatest asset of the all.
"We didn’t get where we are today by being like everyone else and driving the middle of the road. We became Wal-Mart by being different, radically different" – Wal-Mart C.E.O. Lee Scott
http://www.amazon.com/Mart-Works-th...e/dp/B000BWFSOA
Penn and Teller are doing a BULLSHIT episode on Walmart, and Walmart haters have already called on their supporters to stop watching the show.
They haven't even seen it yet! |
Heh I have Penn & Teller BULLSHIT season 4 (I think) in my Blockbuster queue. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by johnsonrod
Yeah but Wal-Mart usually overwhelmes the small shops. The odds are not in their favor. |
Uhh it's competition. Who says it has to be completely fair. That's a socialist viewpoint. |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Psychomike
I think the Walmart model is brilliant and a truly revolutionary one at that.
Why Wal*Mart Works and why this makes some people C-R-A-Z-Y!
The world’s largest family consists of the nearly 1,300,000 people who work for Wal-Mart and service nearly 138-million shoppers every week. Consumers love a bargain, and their quest to save money has helped build Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. into the world's top retailer. From the company's humble beginnings in rural Arkansas to its leadership position in the economy, Wal-Mart has earned both a legion of supporters and a score of detractors. Some claim that Wal-Mart’s "always low prices" is bad for competitive retailers, while others feel that consumers should be allowed to decide with their pocketbooks. Regardless, no one can deny that Wal-Mart has made an impressive impact on America while helping millions of families and shoppers on a budget.
Documentary producers Ron and Robert Galloway present an insider's look at the world's largest company, and how Wal-Mart's quest for better pricing has created new efficiencies in distribution and an overall stronger marketplace. What makes Wal-Mart work? Is it better pricing, convenience, quality and selection? Perhaps, but the Galloways discover that the incredible family of Wal-Mart Associates may well be the company’s greatest asset of the all.
"We didn’t get where we are today by being like everyone else and driving the middle of the road. We became Wal-Mart by being different, radically different" – Wal-Mart C.E.O. Lee Scott
http://www.amazon.com/Mart-Works-th...e/dp/B000BWFSOA
Penn and Teller are doing a BULLSHIT episode on Walmart, and Walmart haters have already called on their supporters to stop watching the show.
They haven't even seen it yet! |
There was a great South Park about this. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
[B]If you defend Wal-Mart's "right" to do business anyway they want to, maybe you should first be aware of how they want to.
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There you go projecting again. I NEVER ONCE said that Wal-Mart has the "right" to do business any way they want to. You are so full of shit and you try and project your bullshit onto me because you are devoid of an argument yourself. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Uhh it's competition. Who says it has to be completely fair. That's a socialist viewpoint. |
No comment on the child-labor stuff, hunh?
I don't blame you.
Wanna talk about McDonalds now? |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Uhh it's competition. Who says it has to be completely fair. That's a socialist viewpoint. |
No. A socialist position would call for government owned stores. I am just pointing out the economic trade-offs that occur when big capitalism meets small business capitalism.
My main problem with the unfairness of the match up comes from the ability of Wal-Mart to buy huge bulk from China with their 1.3 billion slave wage workers. I don't consider that true free trade.
Im a libertarian mostly so I despise socialism probably as much as you do. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
There you go projecting again. I NEVER ONCE said that Wal-Mart has the "right" to do business any way they want to. You are so full of shit and you try and project your bullshit onto me because you are devoid of an argument yourself. |
So, then you support some restrictions on the way that wal-mart does business? |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
So, then you support some restrictions on the way that wal-mart does business? |
Not exactly, I support laws. As long as they operate within the scope of the law then they are ok with me. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Not exactly, I support laws. As long as they operate within the scope of the law then they are ok with me. |
Fucking socialist.
Still no comment on the child-labor, hunh? |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
Fucking socialist.
Still no comment on the child-labor, hunh? |
Why do I need to comment on the child labor? It's wrong. There I commented on it. Can we stay on topic? |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Why do I need to comment on the child labor? It's wrong. There I commented on it. Can we stay on topic? |
The topic is:
In defense of wal-mart.
wal-mart employs child-labor.
you defend wal-mart.
you defend child-labor.
seems like we're right on track to me. |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Why do I need to comment on the child labor? It's wrong. There I commented on it. Can we stay on topic? |
How about Chinese labor? It is slave labor by definition almost. How can a small business here compete with a multinational that buys artificially cheap goods? |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
The topic is:
In defense of wal-mart.
wal-mart employs child-labor.
you defend wal-mart.
you defend child-labor.
seems like we're right on track to me. |
Projection AGAIN. But I expect that from you since you have no argument.
BTW, I looked at your "sources" on the child labor thing. I'm disregarding the chain letter one that makes outrageous claims without citing any sources for it's so called facts. But here's something from your MSNBC link...
| Quote: Wal-Mart denied the allegations but agreed to pay the penalty. A spokeswoman for the Bentonville, Ark., company said Wal-Mart was preparing a statement Saturday. |
Do you have any idea how lawsuits work? I happen to work in the insurance industry and I do. Sometimes a company makes a business decision to just pay something to make it go away rather than taking it through litigation which could end up costing more than just paying the penalty or settlement itself.
Also having worked at a grocery store as a minor back in my high school days I know for a fact that things like what was cited in the MSNBC story do happen and they are usually not the company's fault. For example if you tell a 16 year old part time stock clerk he is not allowed to use the bailer but he goes and does so anyway, he just violated child labor laws on the company's behalf even though he has been previously told not so use the bailer. So in essence, that company isn't setting out to break child labor laws, it's happening due to the idiocy of that minor employee. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by johnsonrod
How about Chinese labor? It is slave labor by definition almost. How can a small business here compete with a multinational that buys artificially cheap goods? |
By providing better quality, better service, cleaner stores and better selection. Big box stores like Wal-Mart try to be a jack of all trades but generally are masters of none. The closest grocery store I live near happens to be a super Wal-Mart but I drive the few extra miles it takes to go to Publix which has better quality meat, produce and deli items, almost always has neatly stocked shelves, it's as crowded with a fucking zillion people waiting in line for checkout and has better service. I might pay more shopping there but the money is well spent. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
Projection AGAIN. But I expect that from you since you have no argument.
BTW, I looked at your "sources" on the child labor thing. I'm disregarding the chain letter one that makes outrageous claims without citing any sources for it's so called facts. But here's something from your MSNBC link...
Do you have any idea how lawsuits work? I happen to work in the insurance industry and I do. Sometimes a company makes a business decision to just pay something to make it go away rather than taking it through litigation which could end up costing more than just paying the penalty or settlement itself.
Also having worked at a grocery store as a minor back in my high school days I know for a fact that things like what was cited in the MSNBC story do happen and they are usually not the company's fault. For example if you tell a 16 year old part time stock clerk he is not allowed to use the bailer but he goes and does so anyway, he just violated child labor laws on the company's behalf even though he has been previously told not so use the bailer. So in essence, that company isn't setting out to break child labor laws, it's happening due to the idiocy of that minor employee. |
Nothing to see here, folks.
Move along.
If there is something to it, it's obviously the fault of the people making minimum wage, and not the ones who are reaping billions.
I hope you're not an insurance investigator. |
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| Kill Van Kull |
Quote: Originally posted by Psychomike
I spoke to one of the heads of the anti- Walmart movement and I asked him if they drove those stores out where would all the people they hire work at?
He said he thought the factories would come back to hire the labor.
From overseas.
That's the plan.
There are not enough words in the english language for me to express what I think of the long term plan after getting rid of Walmart.
When I was a kid, of 15, my first job was minimum wage. It gave me the chance to learn how to act at a job.
Just like millions of kids my age.
As the minimum wage went up, the ages changed. I was used to seeing 17, 19, 20 year olds at minimum wage jobs. Then I started noticing more and more 15, 17, 19, 20 year olds on the streets with gangs.
Now I go to a minimum wage job, and I see retirees and people my age.
And I am told not to worry about the kids. Give those at minimum wage a "decent wage".
Suburban kids who can get a minimum wage job now have to pay no rent at home, no bills, and they will be taking home $10 an hour. That is how they can afford ecstacy at $40 a tab, $400 an ounce for pot, etc. Poor kids just don't get hired.
So I asked the anti-Walmart leader that I knew, my experience from living in poor areas that stores in the hood before Walmart were few and far between in those areas, and usually never hired more than a couple of people. If Walmart didn't give them a job, where would all these hundreds of people they hire work?
The factories will be back, he told me.
Sick. |
How often do you see Wal-Mart in the "hood?"
Urban areas don't fit into Wal-Mart's master plan.
There are none in my area.
I'm thowing the bullshit flag on the premise of this whole thread.
:bs: |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Kill Van Kull
How often do you see Wal-Mart in the "hood?"
Urban areas don't fit into Wal-Mart's master plan.
There are none in my area.
I'm thowing the bullshit flag on the premise of this whole thread.
:bs: |
Here in L.A. they tried putting one in Inglewood and South Central, both hoods. Local city councils prevented them from building. So at least for some cities, the "hood" is in play. |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Ltank
By providing better quality, better service, cleaner stores and better selection. Big box stores like Wal-Mart try to be a jack of all trades but generally are masters of none. The closest grocery store I live near happens to be a super Wal-Mart but I drive the few extra miles it takes to go to Publix which has better quality meat, produce and deli items, almost always has neatly stocked shelves, it's as crowded with a fucking zillion people waiting in line for checkout and has better service. I might pay more shopping there but the money is well spent. |
Sure there will still be competing stores. But you have to assume that every dollar spent at Wal-MArt is a dollar that would have been spent at another local store. |
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| Kill Van Kull |
Quote: Originally posted by johnsonrod
Sure there will still be competing stores. But you have to assume that every dollar spent at Wal-MArt is a dollar that would have been spent at another local store. |
Right.
The "Wal-Mart defenders" love to assume that if Wal-Mart disappeared, none of that money will be spent elsewhere. Not true.
IMO, the "Wal-Mart model" is the beginning of the end of capitalism as we know it. It is a model where greed supercedes any human decency for the working-class or needs/responsibility of the community.
:rolleyes: |
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| tom sizemore |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
Psychomike, you are a ignorant, pretentious, fucking blowhard.
I'm not going to explain why, (as I'm sure it fall on deaf ears anyway) just know that you are.
I'm actually considering putting you on ignore, because your posts are just a complete waste of time. Except the funny ones. Maybe I'll give you another chance. :D
Just one more, though. |
INDEED |
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| Fdubya247 |
Quote: Originally posted by Kill Van Kull
Right.
The "Wal-Mart defenders" love to assume that if Wal-Mart disappeared, none of that money will be spent elsewhere. Not true.
IMO, the "Wal-Mart model" is the beginning of the end of capitalism as we know it. It is a model where greed supercedes any human decency for the working-class or needs/responsibility of the community.
:rolleyes: |
...The "Wal-Mart model" is the "Republican Model" for America...
The duped suckers who vote republican are helping to destroy our country.
Fuckin' Idiots. |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Kill Van Kull
Right.
The "Wal-Mart defenders" love to assume that if Wal-Mart disappeared, none of that money will be spent elsewhere. Not true.
IMO, the "Wal-Mart model" is the beginning of the end of capitalism as we know it. It is a model where greed supercedes any human decency for the working-class or needs/responsibility of the community.
:rolleyes: |
Issues like this removed me from the absolutist branch of libertarianism I tried to belong to in my youth. I believe in capitalism. I think it has been the best economic model ever. You don't even have to do anything to create it, just step back. It has also brought more prosperity to more people than any other market model.
My problem is with this emerging global type of capitalism. "Free trade" agreements with non-capitalist nations that can supress local wages to the point where competition, at least in the capitalist sense, cannot occur. I don't get why many of my fellow libertarians and conservatives can't see this obvious flaw. |
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| Ltank |
Quote: Originally posted by Fdubya247
...The "Wal-Mart model" is the "Republican Model" for America...
The duped suckers who vote republican are helping to destroy our country.
Fuckin' Idiots. |
Careful, your ignorance is showing. |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Fdubya247
...The "Wal-Mart model" is the "Republican Model" for America...
The duped suckers who vote republican are helping to destroy our country.
Fuckin' Idiots. |
Wal-Mart is just a player. The problem is with our free trade agrrements with China, et. al. Currently, republicans as well as many democrats have gone over to that side.
Big business and more importantly the actions of any company are not always in accord with the greater good that capitalism provides. |
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| Psychomike |
Because they are libertarians and you're not, LTANK.
Actually I loved the story of how Walmart was driven out of Europe! Dig this:
When Walmart came to Germany, the German workers took one look at their manual and walked off.
Was it low wages?
Was it a sweat shop atmosphere?
Nope.
It prohibited employees from DATING!
Just as companies all over America do.
Walmart told the judge (yep- the case went to court) that this was common in America since the early 90's when feminists and liberals fought for the laws prohibiting dating at work.
The judge told them the employees have a Constitutional right to see whomever they want when they leave work.
AND RULED AGAINST WALMART. Which left Germany confused shortly afterwards.
You must not give in one inch to the fanaticism of the St Jimmys, Assboils, feminists- or you will hurt not only your biz, but your employees as well.
They were very clever to take away our Constitutional rights to associate with whomever we want- someday employees will be free again! |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by Psychomike
Because they are libertarians and you're not, LTANK.
Actually I loved the story of how Walmart was driven out of Europe! Dig this:
When Walmart came to Germany, the German workers took one look at their manual and walked off.
Was it low wages?
Was it a sweat shop atmosphere?
Nope.
It prohibited employees from DATING!
Just as companies all over America do.
Walmart told the judge (yep- the case went to court) that this was common in America since the early 90's when feminists and liberals fought for the laws prohibiting dating at work.
The judge told them the employees have a Constitutional right to see whomever they want when they leave work.
AND RULED AGAINST WALMART. Which left Germany confused shortly afterwards.
You must not give in one inch to the fanaticism of the St Jimmys, Assboils, feminists- or you will hurt not only your biz, but your employees as well.
They were very clever to take away our Constitutional rights to associate with whomever we want- someday employees will be free again! |
Mike, two questions:
1.) What the fuck are you smoking?
2.) Where can I get some? |
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| Psychomike |
its a true story. The dating restrictions we have been living under were ruled unconstitutional by a Euro court.
They should be here as well. |
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| Billyfromsphily |
Quote: Originally posted by johnsonrod
Wal-Mart is just a player. The problem is with our free trade agrrements with China, et. al. Currently, republicans as well as many democrats have gone over to that side.
Big business and more importantly the actions of any company are not always in accord with the greater good that capitalism provides. |
So China which is the poster child for human rights, forces WAL MAR to ignore the Constitution of the UNITED STATES? |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Psychomike
Because they are libertarians and your not, LTANK.
Actually I loved the story of how Walmart was driven out of Europe! Dig this:
When Walmart came to Germany, the German workers took one look at their manual and walked off.
Was it low wages?
Was it a sweat shop atmosphere?
Nope.
It prohibited employees from DATING!
Just as companies all over America do.
Walmart told the judge (yep- the case went to court) that this was common in America since the early 90's when feminists and liberals fought for the laws prohibiting dating at work.
The judge told them the employees have a Constitutional right to see whomever they want when they leave work.
AND RULED AGAINST WALMART. Which left Germany confused shortly afterwards.
You must not give in one inch to the fanaticism of the St Jimmys, Assboils, feminists- or you will hurt not only your biz, but your employees as well.
They were very clever to take away our Constitutional rights to associate with whomever we want- someday employees will be free again! |
Well I did a good job of trying to be a full libertarian. I even joined the party for a while.
And my impuls on this is hardly leftist. I will try to give a good conservative argument now:
As a conservative, capitalism(free market stuff) is one of my "values". But it is only one of my values. I have others, like:
1. the rule of law.
2. fair trade agreements
3. honoring US priorities and laws.
The last one needs some explanation. I, as a matter of course, am against many useless red-tape, environmental restrictions and laws passed at the behest of labor unions that end up making goods and services needlessly expensive.
However, we voted on these things and those laws passed. I disagree with them, but we are bound by them. They belong to our national priorities.
Now comes a free trade agreement with <insert non-capitalist nation or third-world hole> that results in competition being impossible unless our companies buy from these nations or move jobs there.
It seems to me that if we want all of these environmental and labor restrictions, we should live by them honorably and not allow companies to just jump ship with impunity.
This ends up helping corporate profits but really screwing the working class.
The value I enumerated above can come into conflict with one-another from time to time. My position is a result of trying to balance them. |
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| BobboTheGreat |
| can't beat thier prices though |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by Billyfromsphily
So China which is the poster child for human rights, forces WAL MAR to ignore the Constitution of the UNITED STATES? |
No. But the access to cheap labor will drive any public company to take advantage of it. If the board stands in the way, the stockholders will replace the board with somoene that will do this. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by johnsonrod
No. But the access to cheap labor will drive any public company to take advantage of it. If the board stands in the way, the stockholders will replace the board with somoene that will do this. |
Dig on that free trade, baby. |
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| JTProcess |
Psychomike...
Are you pro illegal immigrant?
That is... are you fine with immigrants coming into the country and getting jobs at places like Walmart?
Because the biggest part of the "illegal immigration" problem, is that companies like walmart are not punished by the government for allowing this type of "illegal activity"... |
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| Psychomike |
Actually the government has cracked down on illegal immigrants- I think that hit Hormel recently.
I think immigrants that come here to become U.S. citizens are fine.
I think immigrants that come here, hate the place, send their $ home and leave?
That I have a problem with. Whole parts of major cities are little Beiruts, where it is possible to live and never hear a word of english. How healthy for a nation is that? |
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| tom sizemore |
Quote: Originally posted by JTProcess
Psychomike...
Are you pro illegal immigrant?
That is... are you fine with immigrants coming into the country and getting jobs at places like Walmart?
Because the biggest part of the "illegal immigration" problem, is that companies like walmart are not punished by the government for allowing this type of "illegal activity"... |
JETHRO IS A COCKSUCKER THATS ALL |
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| johnsonrod |
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy
Dig on that free trade, baby. |
Really, it's not real "free trade". They just call it that. True free-trade assumes equal or at least somewhat similiar economic environments. Not a capitalist-communist trade agreement. |
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| SaintJimmy |
Quote: Originally posted by johnsonrod
Really, it's not real "free trade". They just call it that. True free-trade assumes equal or at least somewhat similiar economic environments. Not a capitalist-communist trade agreement. |
What's the matter?
You got some sort of problem with the idea of competing with people who can and will work for pennies a day?
You must be some sort of lazy hippy liberal america-hating socialist pinko scumbag. |
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