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How long until one of our cities gets nuked?
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| How long until one of our cities gets nuked?
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| Stickman |
Quote: Originally posted by DREAD
I truly do not believe a nuclear bomb will be detonated- that is if you consider a dirty bomb of another classification.
Ricin is much easier to produce, transport and implement. That is a true terrorist tool.
In my past life, they trained us with the mind set that all you needed to make a very good explosive was under the kitchen sink and if you wanted to add toxins to it, just look in the garage.
Combine Home Depot with Vons with a Sporting Store and you can make all sorts of nasty things- smuggling a nuclear weapon into the country, however glamorous, is not very practical in the decentralized terrorist world of today. Takes way too much coordination- especially with all ears up now. |
I'm sure you're accurate here, but it does beg the question: if it's so easy to make such weapons, why hasn't it happened?
Remember after 9/11 the story was that terrorists could rent apts and then load them up with explosives, killing hundreds of people at a clip. We have to watch the ports, subways, water and food supplies.
And what's happened? Nothing. Do you think it's because Bush created the Dept. of Homeland Security? or is it because the Al Qaeda threat is exaggerated to create fear? |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Or, they could actually be telling the truth and simply want Nuclear Energy to offset their rapidly dwindling Oil supplies to meet their growing energy needs. |
I'm sure they are telling the truth when they say they want a nuclear program for nuclear energy.
The problem is that is not the only truth.
Iran had/has another nuclear program. A hidden nuclear program. They have lied about it, then admitted it, and then refuse to divulge the extent of it. That is why Iran is in the trouble it is in. |
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| DREAD |
Quote: Originally posted by Stickman
I'm sure you're accurate here, but it does beg the question: if it's so easy to make such weapons, why hasn't it happened?
Remember after 9/11 the story was that terrorists could rent apts and then load them up with explosives, killing hundreds of people at a clip. We have to watch the ports, subways, water and food supplies.
And what's happened? Nothing. Do you think it's because Bush created the Dept. of Homeland Security? or is it because the Al Qaeda threat is exaggerated to create fear? |
Al Queda exists, there is no doubt of that, what has happened though, is they are willing to have a mutual divide for the time being. Al Queda would like to hurt us again, they just don't want to receive the retribution unless the action warrants it.
For example- why attack America at home when we can attack them in Iraq and around the world- the ramifications are very low compared to attacking them in America, attacking us here only strengthens the support for the war- not attacking undermines the authenticity of the military action- see what I am saying? It is not a cave dwelling camel jokey calling all of these shots- the manner in which Al Queda has executed smells of a state sponsored action. Too sophisticated. |
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| Stickman |
Quote: Originally posted by DREAD
Al Queda exists, there is no doubt of that, what has happened though, is they are willing to have a mutual divide for the time being. Al Queda would like to hurt us again, they just don't want to receive the retribution unless the action warrants it.
For example- why attack America at home when we can attack them in Iraq and around the world- the ramifications are very low compared to attacking them in America, attacking us here only strengthens the support for the war- not attacking undermines the authenticity of the military action- see what I am saying? It is not a cave dwelling camel jokey calling all of these shots- the manner in which Al Queda has executed smells of a state sponsored action. Too sophisticated. |
You're spinning this, and you talk of Al Qaeda as some singular being. If terrorism is such a threat, where are the spin off groups, the malcontents, the rival factions?
Why don't they just stroll across the Mexican or Canadian border? Why aren't they funding white junkies to transfer biological agents?
I agree with your last sentences. The opposite is true too. Only state sponsored terrorism can attack the state. |
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| DDluvr |
Quote: Originally posted by BigJoeA
It's not like old days, when immigrants assimilated. I go into Home Depot now, and the primary language on their products is Spanish!! What the fuck!!
We are going to hell in a handbasket due to our "progressive" thought. |
Oh come on!...it's the republican driven corporate machine that's wants the wetbacks here. they get their cheap labor and drive down wages for the rest of the labor force. |
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| ClumpyStern |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Waaa Waaa. Please, do me a HUGE favor and don't ever walk into a Hallmark store and buy a greeting card ever again, k? Thanks. Then you won't deal with someone you "abhor" :rolleyes: |
I have no problem with anybody behind a cash register at Hallmark. The term "abhor" gives me douche chills, but when arguing WITH douches, I sometimes have to use their own terminology to ridicule them. The people I "abhor" would be those cheap suited, sleazy, career "salesmen" whose SELF description of their occupation is selling people shit they don't need. Of course, your sleazy, dishonest, no-education-needing "profession" wouldn't have come up in discussion if you hadn't called ME a dirtbag for expressing a view on nuclear terrorism with which you happened to disagree. I merely pointed out that someone who does what YOU do for a living probably shouldn't be calling OTHER people "dirbags" for expressing a political opinion.
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
This alarmist crap about nukes is simply NONSENSE...Thinking that "AL QAEDA" could acquire a nuke is the same thing as you saying you want to get a nuke. Can you get one? Neither can they. |
Instead of repeating yourself by typing "nonsense" over and over, why don't you EXPLAIN what's so "nonsensical" about Islamic extremists getting their hands on fissile uranium from the black market, or Korea, or from Iran, once their reactors come on-line and start producing HEU. I don't have millions to buy HEU, but certain groups who'd like to destroy this country do, and there are plenty of very poor people in the former Soviet Union with access to the material. I couldn't have crashed two hijacked airliners into the WTC either, but somebody else seems to have been able to without much of a problem.
You seem to think your GED and your company's "Sales Associate" training program qualifies you to characterize the risk assessment of Graham Allison (and many others WITH credentials to discuss the issue intelligently) as "nonsense." Why don't we compare his credentials with yours?
You are an uneducated douchebag who wears a plastic nametag whose contribution to society is to fast-talk customers into buying "shit they don't need" on a daily basis to keep yourself in cheap suits and X-Box cartridges.
Graham Allison, on the other hand, is a professor of Government at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government and served as Special Advisor to the Secretary of Defense under President Reagan and as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Policy and Plans under President Clinton, where he coordinated DOD strategy and policy towards Russia, Ukraine, and the other states of the former Soviet Union. He has the sole distinction of having twice been awarded the Department of Defenses highest civilian award, the Distinguished Public Service Medal, first by Secretary Cap Weinberger and second by Secretary Bill Perry. He served as a member of the Defense Policy Board for Secretaries Weinberger, Carlucci, Cheney, Aspin, Perry and Cohen. Dr. Allison's publications include: Essence of Decision: Explaining the Cuban Missile Crisis (1971), recently released in an updated and revised second edition (1999), which ranks among the best-sellers in political science with more than 400,000 copies in print; Realizing Human Rights: Moving from Inspiration to Impact (2000); Avoiding Nuclear Anarchy: Containing the Threat of Loose Russian Nuclear Weapons and Fissile Material (1996). Dr. Allisons latest book, Nuclear Terrorism: The Ultimate Preventable Catastrophe, was published in 2004, is now in its third printing, and was selected by the New York Times as one of the "100 most notable books of the year.
Nothing personal, but I think I'll stick to the Harvard guy when it comes to geopolitics, nuclear terrorism, and what is or isn't "nonsense." I'll deal with you the next time I want to get ripped off on a bigger television than the one I came into your shithole retail outlet to buy. |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by ClumpyStern
I have no problem with anybody behind a cash register at Hallmark. The term "abhor" gives me douche chills, but when arguing WITH douches, I sometimes have to use their own terminology to ridicule them. The people I "abhor" would be those cheap suited, sleazy, career "salesmen" whose SELF description of their occupation is selling people shit they don't need. Of course, your sleazy, dishonest, no-education-needing "profession" wouldn't have come up in discussion if you hadn't called ME a dirtbag for expressing a view on nuclear terrorism with which you happened to disagree. I merely pointed out that someone who does what YOU do for a living probably shouldn't be calling OTHER people "dirbags" for expressing a political opinion.
Instead of repeating yourself by typing "nonsense" over and over, why don't you EXPLAIN what's so "nonsensical" about Islamic extremists getting their hands on fissile uranium from the black market, or Korea, or from Iran, once their reactors come on-line and start producing HEU. I don't have millions to buy HEU, but certain groups who'd like to destroy this country do, and there are plenty of very poor people in the former Soviet Union with access to the material. I couldn't have crashed two hijacked airliners into the WTC either, but somebody else seems to have been able to without much of a problem.
You seem to think your GED and your company's "Sales Associate" training program qualifies you to characterize the risk assessment of Graham Allison (and many others WITH credentials to discuss the issue intelligently) as "nonsense." Why don't we compare his credentials with yours?
You are an uneducated douchebag who wears a plastic nametag whose contribution to society is to fast-talk customers into buying "shit they don't need" on a daily basis to keep yourself in cheap suits and X-Box cartridges.
Graham Allison, on the other hand, is a professor of Government at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government and served as Special Advisor to the Secretary of Defense under President Reagan and as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Policy and Plans under President Clinton, where he coordinated DOD strategy and policy towards Russia, Ukraine, and the other states of the former Soviet Union. He has the sole distinction of having twice been awarded the Department of Defenses highest civilian award, the Distinguished Public Service Medal, first by Secretary Cap Weinberger and second by Secretary Bill Perry. He served as a member of the Defense Policy Board for Secretaries Weinberger, Carlucci, Cheney, Aspin, Perry and Cohen. Dr. Allison's publications include: Essence of Decision: Explaining the Cuban Missile Crisis (1971), recently released in an updated and revised second edition (1999), which ranks among the best-sellers in political science with more than 400,000 copies in print; Realizing Human Rights: Moving from Inspiration to Impact (2000); Avoiding Nuclear Anarchy: Containing the Threat of Loose Russian Nuclear Weapons and Fissile Material (1996). Dr. Allisons latest book, Nuclear Terrorism: The Ultimate Preventable Catastrophe, was published in 2004, is now in its third printing, and was selected by the New York Times as one of the "100 most notable books of the year.
Nothing personal, but I think I'll stick to the Harvard guy when it comes to geopolitics, nuclear terrorism, and what is or isn't "nonsense." I'll deal with you the next time I want to get ripped off on a bigger television than the one I came into your shithole retail outlet to buy. |
Uh huh. Lots of bloviating and chest thumping and self-righteousness to basically say nothing. It's truly retarded to get into my career, but I will say that people don't NEED frames and gift bags and cool pens, but they buy them by the truckload, and I'm the guy that sells them. Sorry, I don't have such an honorable and "socially constructive" job like you. :rolleyes:
But meanwhile, lets see who's really the one to abhor.. The one who is for sending more of our American men and women into harms way for false accusations and to propel America even farther into the Neo-Conservative ideological world view of American Hegemony strictly through the use of force, OR, someone like me who is LOATHE to send another American soldier into harms way for the above reasons, who values human life regardless of geography and ethnicity, and who is intelligent enough to see right past the false propaganda and invented "reality" of those who have the loudest mouthpiece.
The difference is that you are willing to believe that Iran DESERVES even the thought of having a nuclear weapon detonated on its soil simply to satisfy the bloodlust and whims of the American people, while I do not. Anyone who would even contemplate a holocaust on other human beings in so flippant a manner only does a disservice to their own reputation, just like St. mcCain did with his "Bomb bomb, bomb,.. bomb bomb Iran". I fuckin hate people who have a false sense of superiority simply because they had the good fortune to be born in one place and not the other.
If you believe in a "soul", what the fuck did yours do to deserve to be placed in a body born on American soil? I wonder how many specific circumstances throughout history culminated with your birth here, as opposed to the lands in which our bombs are falling.... |
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| ClumpyStern |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Uh huh. Lots of bloviating and chest thumping and self-righteousness to basically say nothing. It's truly retarded to get into my career, but I will say that people don't NEED frames and gift bags and cool pens, but they buy them by the truckload, and I'm the guy that sells them. Sorry, I don't have such an honorable and "socially constructive" job like you. :rolleyes: |
I only brought up your job to point out that when you describe your occupation as selling shit to people that they don't need, you're on pretty shaky ground to start calling OTHER people "dirtbags."
I think I gave a pretty thorough explanation of the basic reasons that a nuclear detonation in an American city is a very real and likely threat in the near future. You've repeatedly called that fear "nonsense" without any explanation at all. What part of the analysis do you consider "nonsensical"? The fact that a tremendous amount of nuclear material from the former Soviet Union is unaccounted for? The fact that Iran will be able to produce fissile uranium once their reactors come on-line? The fact that there are certain hostile ENTITIES (since you're so sure that OBL is powerless and AQ is just a figment of our imagination) with both the financial resources and the will to get their hands on that nuclear material? The fact that smuggling HEU into this country is infinitely easier than the many tons of illegal drugs that make it across our borders with no problem? The fact that no advanced scientific training is necessary to create, hide, and detonate a crude nuclear device in an American city?
Instead of deflecting THOSE points into a rant about how OBL is a tool and how AQ is powerless, and about NONSENSE like whether or not my "soul" is more important than anyone else's, how about explaining what part of the equation for nuclear terrorism you consider to be such "nonsense"? |
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| ChaseDC |
Quote: Originally posted by BigJoeA
Dude, there are 20 suitcase nukes missing from the old Soviet Union.
Towel heads are carrying them over the unprotected Mexican border, making believe they are wetbacks.
End this insanity, NOW, and vote to build a border fence, and keep this third world filth out of our great nation!! |
Yeah, because a wall will stop them. Moron. |
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| ChaseDC |
Quote: Originally posted by BigJoeA
It's not like old days, when immigrants assimilated. I go into Home Depot now, and the primary language on their products is Spanish!! What the fuck!!
We are going to hell in a handbasket due to our "progressive" thought. |
We went to hell in a handbasket with our regressive thought. This country is seriously screwed with thinking like yours. |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by ClumpyStern
I only brought up your job to point out that when you describe your occupation as selling shit to people that they don't need, you're on pretty shaky ground to start calling OTHER people "dirtbags."
I think I gave a pretty thorough explanation of the basic reasons that a nuclear detonation in an American city is a very real and likely threat in the near future. You've repeatedly called that fear "nonsense" without any explanation at all. What part of the analysis do you consider "nonsensical"? The fact that a tremendous amount of nuclear material from the former Soviet Union is unaccounted for? The fact that Iran will be able to produce fissile uranium once their reactors come on-line? The fact that there are certain hostile ENTITIES (since you're so sure that OBL is powerless and AQ is just a figment of our imagination) with both the financial resources and the will to get their hands on that nuclear material? The fact that smuggling HEU into this country is infinitely easier than the many tons of illegal drugs that make it across our borders with no problem? The fact that no advanced scientific training is necessary to create, hide, and detonate a crude nuclear device in an American city?
Instead of deflecting THOSE points into a rant about how OBL is a tool and how AQ is powerless, and about NONSENSE like whether or not my "soul" is more important than anyone else's, how about explaining what part of the equation for nuclear terrorism you consider to be such "nonsense"? |
You may have figured this out already but your time would be better spent debating a goat rather than getting into a discussion with abba.
Just sayin... |
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| thedizz |
| The Nuke will come from either Russia or China. |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by thedizz
The Nuke will come from either Russia or China. |
Pakistan.
The Pakistanis are Taliban. The same Deobandi interpretation. The Taliban learned Islam in Pakistani schools.
We are one heart beat away from a full blown fucking mess. And, it is only a matter of time. Not if, but when. |
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| ClumpyStern |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark
You may have figured this out already but your time would be better spent debating a goat rather than getting into a discussion with abba. Just sayin... |
Yeah, I don't think I'm going to bother much longer, but even now, I'm continuing more for the benefit of anybody else follwoing the thread than becauseI think this guy's gonna suddenly post an intelligent response to the issues raised. |
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| Winst |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Just because we throw the word "nuke" around so casually doesn't mean that simply anyone can build one with some duct tape and plutionium. |
Working nuclear devices/weapons have been produced with less.
You don't need the big boom to clear the room.
A little drop...a little plop...and few ways to stop. |
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| Winst |
Quote: Originally posted by thedizz
The Nuke will come from either Russia or China. |
My money is still on Canada. |
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| thedizz |
| China has the second largest reported military budget and is building a quick strike force.They recently shot down a sataleite (sp) out of space.Now why would a country need that sort of tech?Russia is clearly no friend to the U.S. just look at the crap they have been saying lately.The question I still have is how is a missile defense system a threat,its a defensive weapon.I could elaborate for days but I just woke up. :o |
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