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How long until one of our cities gets nuked? - Click HERE to go to the original thread with graphics

bababooey2uall

It is pretty much inevitable that it will happen eventually, but how long do you think it will take? I hope not in my lifetime, but it is a fair question. I say in 10-20 years.

stutteringleech

As soon as the Republicans need some votes. Just like on Heroes

fatboy

If it happens, it will be another false-flag operation and it's a safe bet that no Federales will be killed...

Horndog

Eh, never happen. IF they could build a bomb, and IF they could get it into the country, maybe, but I don't think they'd ever get that far. The technology's simple enough, but the ingredients are tough to get. And even if they COULD get 'em, I think it'd be nearly impossible to sneak it into the country.

bababooey2uall

Crap, it just occured to me that I want to move to Las Vegas and that seems like a prime target because it is a symbol of American decadence....right now I'm in Atlanta which is not that high on the list, imo. NY and DC have to be at the top and I'm not sure what they would want to blow up the most after that. Damn, it will be depressing and the stock market would really tank.

I think 9/11 was more stressful than the reaction from a city getting nuked. I think 9/11 was just a total shock and now we expect something else eventually, so we won't take it as hard.

bababooey2uall

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
Eh, never happen. IF they could build a bomb, and IF they could get it into the country, maybe, but I don't think they'd ever get that far. The technology's simple enough, but the ingredients are tough to get. And even if they COULD get 'em, I think it'd be nearly impossible to sneak it into the country.

It seems like they could get it in on a boat pretty easily at this point. Well, we just have to hope we can hold them off until technology improves to scan entire large areas and pick up any nukes that are hidden.

And I hope they would just nuke one city and not save up a few and then get two or three targets like the did on 9/11. Damn, this is a depressing subject..I need to go back into denial about it all.

Horndog

I dunno. Nevada... Area 51... There may not be aliens there, but there most definitely IS a top-secret base in the desert out there. Make a nice juicy target I'd think. Definitely for a missile anyway. A suitcase bomb would never get close.

Boats have to go through customs and shit like that too.

sternowitz

You never, never know. There are plenty of bombs in the hands of Pakistan, India and russia. One of those countries falls and terrorists could easily have a bomb.

MattyBags

wrong forum..... Plus i get enough of this dooms day shit on TV

Lighten up, its not even 9am

Horndog

Yeah, they could get 'em. I just don't think they could get 'em into our borders.

This IS kinda heavy for the Howard Stern forums. Though I'd like to point out that I'm bein' POSITIVE, sayin' it'll never happen. ;)

bababooey2uall

Yeah, this is a heavy topic but it's better than another Lindsay Lohan thread.

BigJoeA

Dude, there are 20 suitcase nukes missing from the old Soviet Union.

Towel heads are carrying them over the unprotected Mexican border, making believe they are wetbacks.

End this insanity, NOW, and vote to build a border fence, and keep this third world filth out of our great nation!!

BigJoeA

It's not like old days, when immigrants assimilated. I go into Home Depot now, and the primary language on their products is Spanish!! What the fuck!!

We are going to hell in a handbasket due to our "progressive" thought.

SternSleuth

I agree the illegal immigrants are out of control. Let's just take over all of Mexico's oil resources to pay for the services we provide.

As for Nukes, if a Nuke ever goes off here then we will level Mecca, Iran, Syria and places of ah um that uh err nature.

Horndog

I stand by my statement. Never happen. Though I'm in favor of the border thing. If only the world had listened to Buchanan when he was runnin'.

BigJoeA

Quote: Originally posted by SternSleuth
I agree the illegal immigrants are out of control. Let's just take over all of Mexico's oil resources to pay for the services we provide.

As for Nukes, if a Nuke ever goes off here then we will level Mecca, Iran, Syria and places of ah um that uh err nature.

Not if a weakling is in office. Right now, nothing but weaklings. Bush is a fool, Clinton/Obama are a waste, McCain is a coward, and Rudy is full of hot air.

We need a Pat Buchanan.

My vote would be for Joe Lieberman, but, he's a jew and would never get elected.

Horndog

I like Giuliani, but an Italian's never been elected president before either.

bababooey2uall

The Hispanic vote is too huge in this country now. No politician is going to do anything that will irritate them even if it means we have crappy national security. Sadly, it is going to take one of our cities getting nuked before anyone gets serious about it. Our borders are not very secure at all, but you can believe that if it helps you sleep at night.

Horndog

Eh, this is gettin' too political. Threads about politics always turn ugly quickly.

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
I dunno. Nevada... Area 51... There may not be aliens there, but there most definitely IS a top-secret base in the desert out there. Make a nice juicy target I'd think. Definitely for a missile anyway. A suitcase bomb would never get close.

Juicy target??.......to strike at the infidels..we are going to bomb
their bomb range.....that will teach them. :D

It sounds like an episode of that canned terrorist cell sitcom. :D

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by BigJoeA
My vote would be for Joe Lieberman, but, he's a jew and would never get elected.

He did get something in the range of 50 million votes running on the
Gore ticket on 2000.
...but that was in the VP slot...and that was then and this is now.

He might make for an interesting indy....but he's not going.

Winst

bababooey2uall

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
Eh, this is gettin' too political. Threads about politics always turn ugly quickly.

Yeah, I agree that political threads are stupid. This one was meant to be more scientific about what you predict in the future.

Tallblondemale

Quote: Originally posted by fatboy
If it happens, it will be another false-flag operation and it's a safe bet that no Federales will be killed...

:rolleyes:

ANYWAY....

Nov 4, 2008 Hillary Elected President
Jan 2009 Hillary Sworn in.
Feb 2009 Democratic House and Senate Repeal the Patriot Act
March 2009 NYC Nuked by al Qaeda
April 2009, I post 'I told you so' thread after Mutt gets SFN Server back on line.

rockhead

the illegal alien stuff is nuking us from the inside out! No welfare for illegals - period! No amnesty! No Irish!

James_Brown

I don't think we will be nuked... I think our government has technology that they will never release to the public

iatebethO

Let's keep telling the rest of the world "Fuck You" and see.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by Winst
Juicy target??.......to strike at the infidels..we are going to bomb
their bomb range.....that will teach them. :D

It sounds like an episode of that canned terrorist cell sitcom. :D

Eh, you may have a point. Area 51 would be a prime target strategically for an enemy government, cuz it'd put a serious dent in our military capability, but terrorists do tend to prefer more symbolic targets than strategic ones.

24 jumped the shark years ago. The first season where it was a presidential assiantion thing was good. Second season with the virus in the hotel was good. The one with the nuke wasn't too bad either. Started gettin' silly after that. We would NEVER blow an American agent's brains out to appease some terrorist demands. Never happen. That was the first really weak point.

Then there was the arab terrorist year. Before that, they might've tortured a guy for info, but they took it seriously, considered the possible consequences, etc. With the arab terrorist season, he was ripping the wires out of lamps and shocking the shit outa people every other episode.

Then there was the season where the president of the United States was the leader of some terrorist organization or something. Now THAT's just laughable. A presidential candidate can't take a single hit off a joint 20 years ago without the public finding out about it. A terrorist becoming president is just plain silly.

Winst

Never happen??....some might say that it's already happened.

They don't need to build a bomb...and they don't need to get it into the country.

The pieces are not tough to get.

Sneak what where?....all needed pieces/parts are already here.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by Winst
Never happen??....some might say that it's already happened.

They don't need to build a bomb...and they don't need to get it into the country.

The pieces are not tough to get.

Sneak what where?....all needed pieces/parts are already here.

Nonsense. If you find uranium on your own land, the government will seize it under Eminent Domain or some such shit.

I really shouldn't have even said the technology was simple. The theory behind it is simple, but the ENGINEERING to actually build one is hard. The core needs to be shaped perfectly for it to work. You can't just throw a lump of uranium in there with a spark plug or something. It's a little more involved than that.

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
24 jumped the shark years ago. The first season where it was a presidential assiantion thing was good. Second season with the virus in the hotel was good. The one with the nuke wasn't too bad either. Started gettin' silly after that. We would NEVER blow an American agent's brains out to appease some terrorist demands. Never happen. That was the first really weak point.

The virus was in the third season.

The first nuke was in the second season.

We might not kill an official.....but Jack Bauer would and did...it made for good drama/TV.
...and I didn't consider it to be totally unrealistic......a situation like that could
certainly go down exactly as it was depicted...people have killed more for far less.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by Winst
The virus was in the third season.

The first nuke was in the second season.

We might not kill an official.....but Jack Bauer would and did...it made for good drama/TV.
...and I didn't consider it to be totally unrealistic......a situation like that could
certainly go down exactly as it was depicted...people have killed more for far less.

Well, I haven't watched the show in a few years cuz of how silly it got, so my memory of which season happened when might be a little off.

When Jack capped that guy was the first weak link. I'm not sayin' it made that season bad. But it was the first thing I saw in the series up to that point that made me question whether or not it was realistic. Is it as over-the-top as a terrorist president, no, but it still struck me as a stretch. If I remember right, that happened during one of the seasons I liked, so overall I think I liked that year, but that one thing made me raise an eyebrow when they did it.

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
Eh, you may have a point. Area 51 would be a prime target strategically for an enemy government, cuz it'd put a serious dent in our military capability, but terrorists do tend to prefer more symbolic targets than strategic ones.

The Nellis Range would be a prime target?...losing Nellis would put
a serious dent in our military capabilities?
Have you ever been out there??.....there isn't much there to bomb except
for some sand and rocks.

Dear Enemies.....PLEASE skip NYC, LA and DC..and bomb the crap out of
the Nellis Range.

Abba

What the hell is the matter with you people anyway?
Holy shit, how many of you actually did some digging on your own, to asses whether the assumptions you're making are based on any facts or merely the propaganda and lies you're sold??
Al Qaeda is a myth WE made up. Bin Laden never used the term before 9/11, and then only after he heard US using it.
You simply don't get it. Bin Laden is a marginal loser who never was able to attract many to his cause. Yes, there were Arabs in Afghanistan who the Northern Alliance sold us as "Al Qaeda", but for MONEY only. These people we're torturing were only interested in revolutions against ARAB, I repeat, ARAB governments. They, like Saddam, posed no threat and really didn't care about us.

Fools, once the Soviets fell, America needed a new enemy to unite the country, and it needed a "Catastrophic and Catalyzing event- Like a Pearl Harbor" (PNAC) to unify the Nation and impose it's will to make America as an offensive tool for change in the world.

I'm glad to see so many Americans have fallen for this mythology of an "Evil" and Malevolent Islamic SPECTRE. Our politicians have no dreams to offer us, so they offer us nightmares, and you buy them hook, line, and sinker. :rolleyes:

Grow up, what are you, children?

Horndog

Put a dent in military research anyway. There's a LARGE patch of desert out there that's fenced off and is a no-fly zone. The rumors of aliens and UFO's are because we test new aircraft technology out there.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by Abba
What the hell is the matter with you people anyway?
Holy shit, how many of you actually did some digging on your own, to asses whether the assumptions you're making are based on any facts or merely the propaganda and lies you're sold??
Al Qaeda is a myth WE made up. Bin Laden never used the term before 9/11, and then only after he heard US using it.
You simply don't get it. Bin Laden is a marginal loser who never was able to attract many to his cause. Yes, there were Arabs in Afghanistan who the Northern Alliance sold us as "Al Qaeda", but for MONEY only. These people we're torturing were only interested in revolutions against ARAB, I repeat, ARAB governments. They, like Saddam, posed no threat and really didn't care about us.

Fools, once the Soviets fell, America needed a new enemy to unite the country, and it needed a "Catastrophic and Catalyzing event- Like a Pearl Harbor" (PNAC) to unify the Nation and impose it's will to make America as an offensive tool for change in the world.

I'm glad to see so many Americans have fallen for this mythology of an "Evil" and Malevolent Islamic SPECTRE. Our politicians have no dreams to offer us, so they offer us nightmares, and you buy them hook, line, and sinker. :rolleyes:

Grow up, what are you, children?

Don't be naieve. The arabs have all hated us and pretty much all westerners in general since the foundation of an Israeli nation. They have reason to, their land was taken away in order to form Israel, but that hate's there is the point, regardless of Al-Qaeda, George Bush or 911.

The fact that we heavily arm and support Israel doesn't help either. So Al-Qaeda being the reason they hate us IS bullshit, but don't kid yourself. They DO hate us legitimately.

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
Nonsense. If you find uranium on your own land, the government will seize it under Eminent Domain or some such shit.

I really shouldn't have even said the technology was simple. The theory behind it is simple, but the ENGINEERING to actually build one is hard. The core needs to be shaped perfectly for it to work. You can't just throw a lump of uranium in there with a spark plug or something. It's a little more involved than that.

Nonsense??

The tech IS pretty simple....and building one is pretty easy.

The "core" does not have to be shaped perfectly.

A decent mix of a variety of materials will get the job done to effect....and it really
isn't as "involved" as you might think that it has to be.

"....a little dab will do ya."

We aren't talking perfection here....it just has to work...once. :)

BTW..........MUCH worse could be done to greater effect via
much more simple means.
...sprinkle and tinkle is much worse than a big boom.

Horndog

You have to shape the explosives exactly right in order to cause an implosion that'll start a chain reaction. It IS something that takes expertise. Your average towel-head terrorist can barely operate an AK47 and a stick of dynamite.

tamboozie

Who needs dirty nukes when the neocons are already the country into the ground?

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
You have to shape the explosives exactly right in order to cause an implosion that'll start a chain reaction. It IS something that takes expertise. Your average towel-head terrorist can barely operate an AK47 and a stick of dynamite.

Incorrect.

I understand that you think that you know a little bit concerning the topic....but
your way off on certain related realities.

Who said anything about "towel head terrorists"?
...and never make the mistake of under estimating an enemy.

This is war.
Anything is possible.
We can lose.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by tamboozie
Who needs dirty nukes when the neocons are already the country into the ground?

Again, I'll comment on nukes and national security, but I ain't touching anything about liberals or conservatives or Republicans or Democrats. Those threads always spiral way outa control.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by Winst
Incorrect.

I understand that you think that you know a little bit concerning the topic....but
your way off on certain related realities.

Who said anything about "towel head terrorists"?
...and never make the mistake of under estimating an enemy.

This is war.
Anything is possible.
We can lose.

I haven't seen any engineering degrees from you either. I've heard a lot of very vague "ah, it's easy" type comments. Tell ya what, if it's so easy, build one and nuke something. THEN I'll believe you. It'll NEVER HAPPEN. With you or with a city in this country gettin' nuked. Never.

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
Put a dent in military research anyway. There's a LARGE patch of desert out there that's fenced off and is a no-fly zone. The rumors of aliens and UFO's are because we test new aircraft technology out there.

Is that what you really think?

When did "secret" stop being "secret"?

......advertising works. :btu: :)

Stickman

I have a grim prediction that I've been saying for a few months now, but please let it not be ever come true.

August/September 08, if the Reps are behind, a suitcase nuke attributed to Iran will be detonated in a major American city.

Hell, if that happens, the sheeple will be begging for Jeb Bush.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by Winst
Is that what you really think?

When did "secret" stop being "secret"?

......advertising works. :btu: :)

Yes I do. Try to fly over the area or drive through it. I don't believe in the UFO shit, but I do believe there's stuff out there the government doesn't want people to see. It's not the only place. I'm sure there's lots of top-secret facilities around the world, that one just got to be high-profile with all the UFO stuff.

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
I haven't seen any engineering degrees from you either. I've heard a lot of very vague "ah, it's easy" type comments. Tell ya what, if it's so easy, build one and nuke something. THEN I'll believe you. It'll NEVER HAPPEN. With you or with a city in this country gettin' nuked. Never.

I am not an engineer......and it is pretty easy to create certain weapons.

Those that play with fire often get burned...so I'll pass on making any mega movers.

You are thinking way too far up the scale....a "terrorist" only has to start small to
finish big....that's how the game gets played.

.........never say never.....especially about nukes.

Horndog

Cheyenne Mountain/SAC/NORAD are all real places too. All known, all top-secret contents even if the facilities are known.

Stickman

Nuclear material is far easier to detect than the fearmongers will admit.

The only people able to pull off a domestic terrorist attack is the US gov't.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by Winst
I am not an engineer......and it is pretty easy to create certain weapons.

Those that play with fire often get burned...so I'll pass on making any mega movers.

You are thinking way too far up the scale....a "terrorist" only has to start small to
finish big....that's how the game gets played.

.........never say never.....especially about nukes.

Vague as always. Took a swat-team of geniuses working around the clock with help from Albert Einstein to build the first two nukes, but yer right. Must be a cakewalk. I stand corrected.

Stickman

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
Cheyenne Mountain/SAC/NORAD are all real places too. All known, all top-secret contents even if the facilities are known.

Somehow they all simultaneously had a power outage on 9/11 and let four hijacked planes ramble around the most tightly controlled airspace in the world for an hour and a half.

For Cheyenne in particular it is inconceivable that they didn't know where the four airliners were.

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
Yes I do. Try to fly over the area or drive through it. I don't believe in the UFO shit, but I do believe there's stuff out there the government doesn't want people to see. It's not the only place. I'm sure there's lots of top-secret facilities around the world, that one just got to be high-profile with all the UFO stuff.

Yes....it is secured territory.

Preventing people from seeing is one thing....but isn't the real goal to prevent
people from feeling?
...think about that.....and realize the energy to be found in certain emotions.

"Dreamland".....indeed. :)

Those facilitie sonly became "high profile" because people wanted
them to become "high profile".

The best place to hide something is.......

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Stickman
Nuclear material is far easier to detect than the fearmongers will admit.

The only people able to pull off a domestic terrorist attack is the US gov't.

You are VERY wrong on the detection angle.

...a will...a way.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by Stickman
Somehow they all simultaneously had a power outage on 9/11 and let four hijacked planes ramble around the most tightly controlled airspace in the world for an hour and a half.

For Cheyenne in particular it is inconceivable that they didn't know where the four airliners were.

Jets used to fly over NYC all the time. If you gotta blame somebody, I could maybe see blaming the air traffic controllers in the area, but that'd be it.

I believe there was a conspiracy, but not a government one. I believe it was terrorist living in the country planning WAY in advance. Getting jobs in the buildings, etc. If you watch the video of the towers collapsing, you'll see demolition charges going off. As they're collapsing, if you watch closely, there's an explosion in the center of every other floor of the tower, all the way down. One or two secondary explosions due to the crashes I could believe, but explosions happening at regular intervals, at the same spot on every floor that goes down? That's a controlled demolition. You don't have to believe me. Find a video of the towers collapsing and watch it yourself.

Winst

...and as we all know....tracking is always whacking...right?? :)

onyxgeo

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
Vague as always. Took a swat-team of geniuses working around the clock with help from Albert Einstein to build the first two nukes, but yer right. Must be a cakewalk. I stand corrected.

You are correct that it took these people to figure out how to build it. That was the hard part. Now that it has been done, it can be copied. I am not saying that it would be as easy as others here think, but it is possible.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by Winst
Yes....it is secured territory.

Preventing people from seeing is one thing....but isn't the real goal to prevent
people from feeling?
...think about that.....and realize the energy to be found in certain emotions.

"Dreamland".....indeed. :)

Those facilitie sonly became "high profile" because people wanted
them to become "high profile".

The best place to hide something is.......

Ah okay, now it becomes clearer. Another crackpot chicken little saying the sky is falling. It's the same with wack-job environmentalists:

1970's - "A new ice age is coming, we're all gonna DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIE!"

1980's/early 90's - "Oh sorry, we were wrong about the ice age thing. But we're killing the ozone layer, we're all gonna DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIE!"

2000's - "Oh sorry, we were wrong about the ozone thing. But the globe's getting warmer. We're all gonna DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIE!"

It's always easy to sell fear and paranoia, but in the end, bullshit is still bullshit.

Stickman

Quote: Originally posted by Winst
...and as we all know....tracking is always whacking...right?? :)

neither is interception. Interception and shoot down are two totally different actions.

Stickman

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
Jets used to fly over NYC all the time. If you gotta blame somebody, I could maybe see blaming the air traffic controllers in the area, but that'd be it.

I believe there was a conspiracy, but not a government one. I believe it was terrorist living in the country planning WAY in advance. Getting jobs in the buildings, etc. If you watch the video of the towers collapsing, you'll see demolition charges going off. As they're collapsing, if you watch closely, there's an explosion in the center of every other floor of the tower, all the way down. One or two secondary explosions due to the crashes I could believe, but explosions happening at regular intervals, at the same spot on every floor that goes down? That's a controlled demolition. You don't have to believe me. Find a video of the towers collapsing and watch it yourself.

Oh take a gander in the Politics forum sometime over the last year and you will not find a greater proponent of the CD theory than myself.

The difference is that no way in hell did unaffillitated Al Qaeda terrorists wire that bldg.

Find out who sat on the BOD for Securacom, the company charged with security for the WTC, Dulles and United Airlines. Then you'll get an idea of who controlled the access to the complex.

Winst

Gravity can be a real bitch.

You would expect exactly that from a collapse of that nature...the central core would
be the focus of every ounce coming down...and that includes air..which most usually
leads the way before all else....pressure tends to push...and it can push really
hard under conditions like that.

At least some portions of the central cores of each tower would have been
damaged from the initial impacts and explosions...the fires could have
easily done the rest.....things break.

HairOfDogStar

CTU has been able to prevent most nuclear threats and will do so in the future.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by Stickman
Oh take a gander in the Politics forum sometime over the last year and you will not find a greater proponent of the CD theory than myself.

The difference is that no way in hell did unaffillitated Al Qaeda terrorists wire that bldg.

Find out who sat on the BOD for Securacom, the company charged with security for the WTC, Dulles and United Airlines. Then you'll get an idea of who controlled the access to the complex.

I don't say it was Al-Qaeda necessarily. I dunno, I saw the video myself. If those weren't demolition charges, then what WERE those explosions? It's not my imagination, it's there in the tape for anybody to see. There's an explosion, then that floor goes down, then another explosion and the next floor goes down... There's arabs all over this country. It's not THAT hard to believe some of 'em could get jobs in those buildings. There were a LOT of people that worked there.

But we don't need to re-hash it all if it's already been covered in another forum. We'll never know for sure. Hell, people are still workin' on the JFK assassintation after all.

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Stickman
neither is interception. Interception and shoot down are two totally different actions.

There's no need to meet...when you can just greet.

Horndog

Quote: Originally posted by Winst
Gravity can be a real bitch.

You would expect exactly that from a collapse of that nature...the central core would
be the focus of every ounce coming down...and that includes air..which most usually
leads the way before all else....pressure tends to push...and it can push really
hard under conditions like that.

At least some portions of the central cores of each tower would have been
damaged from the initial impacts and explosions...the fires could have
easily done the rest.....things break.

Random explosions aren't perfectly timed and in the same location on every floor. It wasn't a collapse, there was a flash from the charges going off. Watch a tape of a controlled demo of another building, then watch the TT videos. There's more than a casual similarity there. But again, I don't want wanna argue the TT thing. I'm fairly convinced of the evidence I've seen with my own eyes, and it's a lot more believable than our own government doin' it.

Let's just drop it. I'm sure we're covering a lot of minutiae that's already been covered in the politics forum.

CROOK22

20-30 years. this war we are in now is the start of armageddon*

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
If those weren't demolition charges, then what WERE those explosions? It's not my imagination, it's there in the tape for anybody to see. There's an explosion, then that floor goes down, then another explosion and the next floor goes down...

For one thing...they were pressure waves of some form...the moving/heated
air just makes them visible to the human eye or camera lense.
The air moves...and sometimes it takes things with it....like smoke..dust etc.

Things do not just collapse without cause....damage has to be done to them first...energy has
to travel/transmit...and then you see things with the eye start to crumble and break etc.

Stickman

Google the Law of Conservation of Momentum then explain how impacting mass didn't slow the fall, but remained constant.

Next, explain to me how the fires could have gotten hot enough to weaken the steel with a diffuse flame.

Good luck on that and please try to not to abuse the elipses.

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Horndog
Random explosions aren't perfectly timed and in the same location on every floor. It wasn't a collapse, there was a flash from the charges going off. Watch a tape of a controlled demo of another building, then watch the TT videos. There's more than a casual similarity there. But again, I don't want wanna argue the TT thing. I'm fairly convinced of the evidence I've seen with my own eyes, and it's a lot more believable than our own government doin' it.

Let's just drop it. I'm sure we're covering a lot of minutiae that's already been covered in the politics forum.

You are seeing moving air..mixed with some debris.

Moving air is moving air.....you want to debate the exact cause...I say that you only have to look up and see what is coming down from up above.
I don't blame the air.....I'd want to move my molecules out of the way too.

Horndog

Again, I'm sure all these points have been made before and argued to death. We're all each convinced that our opinion/theory is the right one, and I'll predict right now that nothing ANYBODY can say is going to change ANYBODY's opinion on the subject, so arguing the details anymore is just masochism.

Winst

Quote: Originally posted by Stickman
Find out who

Research who planned out and built those two tall towers in the first place.

...the how and the why might lead you to the what.

Take note of the original designs compared to the finished products.
...what comes down must go up.

bababooey2uall

Most conspiracy theories are bullshit, but it wouldn't surprise me if any individual ones were true. The people at the top of gov't and the media lie a whole lot...we know that from the few times they have gotten caught. .like the dramatic Jessica Lynch rescue where most of the facts around it were bullshit. I'm sure we are fed a lot of misinformation in the news every night. As you say, we will never know the truth for sure.

SternJunkie

38% in the next 10 years?

wow, the propaganda machine in full effect in this country.

all hail g-w!

Stickman

Quote: Originally posted by bababooey2uall
Most conspiracy theories are bullshit, but it wouldn't surprise me if any individual ones were true. The people at the top of gov't and the media lie a whole lot...we know that from the few times they have gotten caught. .like the dramatic Jessica Lynch rescue where most of the facts around it were bullshit. I'm sure we are fed a lot of misinformation in the news every night. As you say, we will never know the truth for sure.

Add Pat Tillman and Todd Beamer to that list, as well.

UtahCarl

Terrorists, many born in the USA, some having been proselytized through the penal system, are here with everything they need, except the go-ahead.

That's why our presidents need to mean, Cheney-like crazy bastards.

If you listen to the Stern 9/11 show, they repeatedly say that we know who these people are and we know where they live. We should have immediately delivered to them something they would never forget (if any were still living).

Horndog

A biological threat is much more plausible I think. It's not hard to detect radioactive shit, but when the weapon just looks like a little tube full of dust, I imagine it's a lot easier to hide.

ClumpyStern

Why are you people even bothering to argue about nuclear terrorism with someone who's still stuck on the 9/11 government conspiracy theory?

A nuclear detonation in a major metropolitan area in this country is a matter of WHEN not IF.

1. Iran's sentiments and connection both to Iraqi insurgents and AQ are well known,
2. Bin Laden has already stated his intention to kill millions of Americans by any means possible and has been actively pursuing fissile material for years,
3. Our border control is ridiculously inadequate,
4. So is our technological inability to detect nuclear material in transit, and
5. Iranian reactors will produce enough Plutonium and enrich enough Uranium to weapons grade for a 100-megaton WMD in their first year of operation once they come on-line,

There is no question that Iran is already close enough to being capable of furnishing fissile material to AQ and anybody else with terrorist ambitions here and elsewhere. They may or may not still be a year or more away from actually assembling a nuclear weapon (and maybe 5-10 years away from one that is reliable and deliverable as a missile payload), but that’s much more of a direct concern to Israel than to us.

What is (or SHOULD be) a profound concern to us is that our borders are hardly more secure than pre-9/11; thousands of illegal aliens and thousands of pounds of illegal drugs come into this country weekly; highly enriched, weapons grade (and weapons usable) Uranium is virtually impossible to detect with current technology if it is properly shielded; and only a miniscule percentage of the thousands of shipping containers arriving at major U.S. ports daily are inspected.

The fact of the matter is that it is probably already too late to prevent a nuclear holocaust in one or more American cities, because there’s a pretty good chance that OBL and AQ have already acquired fissile material from the former Soviet black market. The very LEAST we can do is neutralize Iran’s ability to start producing HEU and (later) Plutonium, because there is no doubt that material is destined for a terrorist attack on this country that will, in the words of Graham Allison, render 9/11 a mere “footnote” in U.S. history.

As far as the black market goes, it's much more serious a situation than "20 suitcase nukes" which probably require extensive technical expertise to maintain since they disappeared. The main risk from them is simply that their fissile material has been extracted for eventual use in much cruder devices.

The information that we have about the 22,000 warheads supposedly secured from Soviet satellite states is conflicting but suggests that it’s much more likely than not that more than enough Plutonium for several weapons has already made it to the black market. Even if efforts to secure it are 99% successful—which is already a very unrealistic assumption given the inadequate controls and economic desperation of thousands of Russian scientists and technicians with access to highly enriched uranium—that leaves plenty of material to wipe out half a dozen U.S. cities or more. The technology itself is already out of the bottle and the ONLY real impediment toward detonating a nuclear device in this country is assembling the necessary dozen or so kilos of HEU (or substantially less Plutonium) that Iran’s reactors will begin producing within a year of coming on-line. Even that assumes that sufficient quantities haven’t already been acquired by AQ and OBL. In fact, that they’ll have to wait for material from Iran is, more than likely, a BEST case scenario.

Non-fissile radioactive material is even more readily available, and its supply is virtually impossible to secure, because both Cobalt and Cesium have extensive industrial applications. Chechen rebels already planted one “dirty bomb” in a Russian park but it was dismantled by authorities. International officials have discovered substantial quantities of HEU in abandoned Soviet facilities “secured” by nothing more than a simple padlock. Most recently, a Russian technician was apprehended with HEU hidden in the trunk of his car and in his home. He’d been stealing it in quantities of a few dozen grams at a time to supplement his meager salary to put food on his family’s table. Extrapolating that every bit of unsecured HEU that we’ve already found represents much more that we haven’t found is much more realistic than hoping it doesn’t.

The technology to build nuclear weapons of TERRORISM is a lot less problematic than the technology necessary to build (and test) nuclear weapons of WAR. Contrary to the misinformation posted by the 9/11 conspiracy idiot here, CRUDE nuclear devices do not need a "perfectly round" core. Iran is openly dedicated to destroying Israel and nobody doubts their willingness to assist terrorist ambitions toward this country but the situation is completely different than the circumstances of Israel’s preemptive attack on Iraq in 1981. In all likelihood, it will be impossible--even WITH an all-out joint U.S.-Israeli attack--to take out all of the hundreds of known and (admittedly) unknown Iranian nuclear installations and facilities. But we don’t really have any choice not to try LONG before those reactors get to the same stage we already (stupidly) allowed Korea’s to get to. By the time Iran’s reactors start producing HEU, downtown NYC and/or DC (etc) are likely history.

You may now post the "I ain't readin' all that shit, Nigga" picture and stick your head right back in the sand…or right back up your ass, whichever gives you a greater false sense of security.

bababooey2uall

I agree with most of what you say...it is a matter of when, not if. But we will probably take out Iran's nuclear material factories before we let them get too close to building a bomb. We won't invade them, but will bomb the hell out of them.

Appparently, it's impossible to hide some of these facilities from satellite image detection, so we can just send in some missles to blow up whatever we want. If we don't, then Israel will do it first.

ClumpyStern

Quote: Originally posted by bababooey2uall
...we will probably take out Iran's nuclear material factories before we let them get too close to building a bomb...

Unfortunately, it's already almost too late. They'll probably start delivering HEU to OBL and/or AQ within a year. (Good thread, BTW.)

Quote: Originally posted by bababooey2uall
Appparently, it's impossible to hide some of these facilities from satellite image detection, so we can just send in some missles to blow up whatever we want. If we don't, then Israel will do it first.

That's not the case at all. They've already spread out their program in hundreds of hardened facilities deep underground, which means nothing short of a direct hit will take them out and our military analysts are unanimous in their admission that we have no way of knowing where all of them are. Likewise, military analysts are unanimous in saying that even an extensive bombing campaign will still require putting troops on the ground afterwards. As far as Israel goes, they don't have anything close to the resources neessary for such a large-scale attack on hundreds of facilities, even if they could identify all of them, which they can't.

Unfortunately, we don't have the balls to use any of OUR nuclear weapons in any preemptive strike. We're not going to do what's necessary to neutralize the threat until AFTER we lose a city and a few hundred thousand American civilians.

NC-Stern-Mark

Ummm,

Bombs already exist.

The Southern Border is wide open.

There are people who want to do this.

There are planning it this very moment.

How do you think tons of drugs are smuggled into our country my friend? A couple little nukes could be and probably already have been sneaked in quite easily.

It's only a matter of time.

betabryan

Here's the headline:

NUKE DESTROYS LOS ANGELES.

2 MILLION MEXICANS & 3 AMERICANS PERISH.

bababooey2uall

Quote: Originally posted by ClumpyStern
Likewise, military analysts are unanimous in saying that even an extensive bombing campaign will still require putting troops on the ground afterwards.

Putting them on the ground to do what? If we bomb the facilities, then they don't need to do anything.

And we will end up using nukes as premptive strikes at some point in the future, but it will only be after we get nuked once or twice ourselves.

ClumpyStern

Quote: Originally posted by bababooey2uall
Putting them on the ground to do what? If we bomb the facilities, then they don't need to do anything.

The problem is there's no question that we DON'T know where all the facilities are. Especially after we destroy much of their country and kill many thousands of Iranian civilians in collateral damage from an air attack on the facilities we do know about, they will want to retaliate by any means possible.

What you have to remember is we're not worried about Iran's MILITARY capabilities or their ability to launch sophisticated intercontinental nuclear war. While we may destroy their military capabilities and conventional ICBMs threatening their neighbors, we cannot possibly stop them from supplying AQ and OBL with whatever nuclear material they'd still be able to produce in the surviving (and repaired) facilities. We cannot possibly destroy ALL of their facilities or prevent them from producing ANY fissile material, which can be stored virtually ANYWHERE in the country and it's a very large country.

That means after taking out their known facilities in full-scale bombing raids, we'd have to put enough troops on the ground to control the entire country--which as you know, isn't exactly working out all that well even in Iraq, a MUCH smaller country. Those troops would have to find and destroy all the UNKNOWN sites as well as round up all the individuals who could possibly administrate the subsequent production and transfer of HEU to AQ et al. If the point of war with Iran is to make sure that fissile material FROM Iran never fuels a WMD that destroys NYC or DC (etc), then, unfortunately, it can't be done through bombing alone, unless we used our WMDs to flatten the entire country and kill many millions of civilians in a preemptive strike. Personally, I have no problem with that, but it will never happen,

Quote: Originally posted by bababooey2uall
And we will end up using nukes as premptive strikes at some point in the future, but it will only be after we get nuked once or twice ourselves.

I don't want to argue about what the word "preemptive" means, but once all of NYC from Wall St. to midtown goes up in a mushroom cloud, nothing we do AFTER that would be "preemptive"; it would be RESPONSIVE, which I've suggested all along, is the only way we'd ever resort to nuclear strikes of our own.

rod_jammer

I'm surprised that noone has mentioned that an American city has already been destroyed (New Orleans) and two years later noone seems to give a shit.

rod_jammer

Quote: Originally posted by Stickman
explain to me how the fires could have gotten hot enough to weaken the steel with a diffuse flame.

Thermal creep of steel from burning of full plane of jet fuel, which the eventual buckling of the support beam. Keep in mind what Bin Laden's formal training is in: civil engineering.

Shark58

SaintJimmy

Quote: Originally posted by Tallblondemale

:rolleyes:

ANYWAY....

Nov 4, 2008 Hillary Elected President
Jan 2009 Hillary Sworn in.
Feb 2009 Democratic House and Senate Repeal the Patriot Act
March 2009 NYC Nuked by al Qaeda
April 2009, I post 'I told you so' thread after Mutt gets SFN Server back on line.

That seems familiar, for some reason.....let me see.....hmmm.....

Nov 2000 Bush elected...sort of.

Jan 2001 Bush sworn in.

Jan-Sept 2001 Bush cuts intelligence/CT budgets and Ignores specific warnings about Bin Laden

Sept 2001 NYC/Wash. DC/Shanksville, PA struck by terrorists-thousands die.

Sept 2001-June 2007 You post stupid shit while your Constitution is being pissed on.

SaintJimmy

Fair and Balanced fear-mongering?

Stickman

Quote: Originally posted by rod_jammer
Thermal creep of steel from burning of full plane of jet fuel, which the eventual buckling of the support beam. Keep in mind what Bin Laden's formal training is in: civil engineering.

And as this heat transferred it increased in temperature? NIST estimated that only three columns reached temps of 250 C and no core columns reached that temp, so how did entire core give way in 56 and 110 minutes for S and N Tower respectively, when the temps never reached a poin that would soften the steel.

They could've burned all day at the temp and the core never would've given away.

Psychomike

Perhaps sooner than we dare think.

Iran is conducting reconnaissance missions on Britain's nuclear power stations in preparation for retaliatory attacks should the West strike against Tehran's nuclear installations, a European security analyst told MPs yesterday.

The claim from Claude Moniquet, president of the European Strategic Intelligence and Security Centre, a Brussels think tank, came after David Cameron urged stronger international sanctions on Iran to force it to give up its nuclear ambitions. The call from the Conservative leader came amid reports Tehran was forging ties with al Qaeda in Iraq to prepare for a summer fight against coalition forces, and that it was arming Taliban insurgents fighting British troops in Afghanistan.

At a Westminster meeting, Mr Moniquet said his organisation had evidence Tehran had increased its intelligence agents across Europe.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/oth...1417657.0.0.php

Abba

What a simplistic explanation you have. You speak as if the building was NOT hermetically sealed, as if the Steel rating was MORE THAN enough to withstand the relatively quick burning kerosene and the cool fires of flame resistant office furnishings, and as if the tallest buildings in Manhattan were built WITHOUT any kind of damage resistance in mind.

My friend, you are sorely mistaken in your assumptions. I simply do not have the time to take you through the myriad of reasons why the basic premise of your assumptions is wrong, suffice to say, the Towers fell that day not from the damage of the airplanes, but from a pre-meditated controlled demolition which every single witness onhand in lower manhattan that day attested to.

Abba

Just because we throw the word "nuke" around so casually doesn't mean that simply anyone can build one with some duct tape and plutionium.
It takes precise machining within a less than 10 microns tolerance to form the basic nuclear core of any device. Furthermore, it takes quantities of tritium which is very rare in abundance, and exact detonation sequences for the compression of the nuclear material to be uniform. Furthermore, you need a completely clean environment to assemble the device, not to mention massive power needs.

The first nuclear weapons were assembled in the up until then largest structures ever built, and had their own dedicated power plant to run. For beginners, those requirements haven't changed.

Abba

You have got to be kidding me. :rolleyes:

You would actually be making some sense if the real bin Laden and the bin Laden, leader of an evil secret group, who rules a vast network of crazy Islamic sleepers in 60 nations. :lol:

Abba

Quote: Originally posted by ClumpyStern
The problem is there's no question that we DON'T know where all the facilities are. Especially after we destroy much of their country and kill many thousands of Iranian civilians in collateral damage from an air attack on the facilities we do know about, they will want to retaliate by any means possible.

What you have to remember is we're not worried about Iran's MILITARY capabilities or their ability to launch sophisticated intercontinental nuclear war. While we may destroy their military capabilities and conventional ICBMs threatening their neighbors, we cannot possibly stop them from supplying AQ and OBL with whatever nuclear material they'd still be able to produce in the surviving (and repaired) facilities. We cannot possibly destroy ALL of their facilities or prevent them from producing ANY fissile material, which can be stored virtually ANYWHERE in the country and it's a very large country.

That means after taking out their known facilities in full-scale bombing raids, we'd have to put enough troops on the ground to control the entire country--which as you know, isn't exactly working out all that well even in Iraq, a MUCH smaller country. Those troops would have to find and destroy all the UNKNOWN sites as well as round up all the individuals who could possibly administrate the subsequent production and transfer of HEU to AQ et al. If the point of war with Iran is to make sure that fissile material FROM Iran never fuels a WMD that destroys NYC or DC (etc), then, unfortunately, it can't be done through bombing alone, unless we used our WMDs to flatten the entire country and kill many millions of civilians in a preemptive strike. Personally, I have no problem with that, but it will never happen,

I don't want to argue about what the word "preemptive" means, but once all of NYC from Wall St. to midtown goes up in a mushroom cloud, nothing we do AFTER that would be "preemptive"; it would be RESPONSIVE, which I've suggested all along, is the only way we'd ever resort to nuclear strikes of our own.

#1- Enough with the Mushroom cloud nonsense.
#2- Iran is MUCH different than Iraq. Although there is dissention among the people toward their government, any US invasion will be quickly met with an ENTIRE NATION of Proud Persians standing up against us. You think those Sunni Iraqi insurgents are crazy? You ain't seen nothin yet. The Shia Iranians will stop at nothing to fuck us and our mothers.

Stupid Stupid Stupid. I fuckin abhor people who are so flippant about war and deploying our troops, as if our bravest are expendable assets to be used when we whim it so. Dirtbag. :rolleyes:

JTProcess

Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Although there is dissention among the people toward their government, any US invasion will be quickly met with an ENTIRE NATION of Proud Persians standing up against us.

This point is SO key in dealing with Iran... If we just start bombing them we risk completely alienating more people who are somewhat sympathetic to our cause... whatever happened to "winning hearts and minds?"