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Ron Paul Wins New Hampshire Straw Poll - Click HERE to go to the original thread with graphics

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Ron Paul Wins New Hampshire Straw Poll - Click HERE to go to the original thread with graphics Richard Wagner http://blog.ronpaul2008.com/ron_pau...-release-r.html Press Release: Ron Paul Wins Big Ron Paul Wins Big in First New Hampshire Straw Poll FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 7, 2007 ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – Presidential candidate Ron Paul today won the Coalition for New Hampshire Taxpayers (CNHT) straw poll at their annual picnic in Hopkinton, New Hampshire. Dr. Paul received 182 of 294 votes cast, or 65 percent. In second place was Rudy Giuliani with 24 votes, or 8 percent. "Today's strong victory is further proof that Dr. Paul's message is resonating throughout New Hampshire," said campaign manager Lew Moore. "Dr. Paul is the only candidate in this race truly dedicated to smaller government and lower taxes for all Americans." CNHT is a statewide, grassroots organization dedicated to reducing the size of government at all levels, stopping judicial activism, providing students and parents with a choice of educational opportunities, expanding job markets, and protecting property rights. Monster_Zero Now the NeoCons will bag on New Hampshire as being out of touch with the voting community... :rofl: :giggle: Since 1952, the primary has been a major testing ground for candidates for the Republican and Democratic nominations. Candidates who do poorly usually have to drop out, while lesser-known, underfunded candidates who do well suddenly become contenders, gaining huge amounts of media attention and money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_primary The more they underestimate Paul, the more his popularity grows!! :) GO RON, GO!!!! :dancin: Reverend Tyler Well, actually it doesnt necessarily mean too much....McCain won big in New Hampshire in the primary but then still got beaten bad by Bush the rest of the way. However, I do have to say that is impressive. Im sure that will only help him raise more money which will keep him in the race longer. I do say I love having him in the debates making the other Republicans look like fools. I still dont think he has a chance to get the nomination, but he very well may get enough support going to launch a third party bid. Id say higher than Nader but nowhere near Perot. Monster_Zero Rev Tyler; while you have said you are Democratically inclined, you have never stated what issues you take with Dr Paul's platform... since you seem so vehemently opposed to his candidacy, please be so kind as to spell out those criticisms for us... :) Reverend Tyler Im not that opposed to his candidacy... I just gave him credit for running a good campaign...I dont think he has all the best answers, and I dont think his message will resonate with the general public at this time. Thats not necessarily a horrible thing, either. It doesnt mean he cant have an impact on the political scene, hes certainly doing that now. But to answer your question, I personally disagree with his standings on abortion, gay rights, education, the environment, healthcare and the income tax. Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler But to answer your question, I personally disagree with his standings on abortion, gay rights, education, the environment, healthcare and the income tax. His position on Abortion is that it's wrong, but noting in the Constitution allows for the Federal government to make a ruling that overrules any State's ruling. Roe V Wade has no basis in constitution law... Where do you disagree? I haven't heard any position on gay rights, except that gays in the military shouldn't be held to any different standard than anyone else.... do you take exception with that? The Environment... again, Dr Paul's position is that the Federal government is the biggest contributor to the Pollution in America. This is a complex issue, not easily explained in a few sentences, but since the Federal Government is the biggest polluter of the environment... if your candidate has a better plan to decrease the size of Federal government, let's have at it... Healthcare? Could you be more specific? Income Tax... He wants it abolished. You take issue with that, without knowing his plan? What do you gain from paying out close to half of your earnings for failed foreign policies, and corporate hand outs? :confused: Crazytree he won a straw vote at a picnic in New Hampshire? surely the corridors of power in Washington are trembling upon hearing this news. Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree he won a straw vote at a picnic in New Hampshire? surely the corridors of power in Washington are trembling upon hearing this news. I guess a pinata party in San Jose, would know better? :) Crazytree Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero I guess a pinata party in San Jose, would know better? :) indeed they would. Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree he won a straw vote at a picnic in New Hampshire? surely the corridors of power in Washington are trembling upon hearing this news. New Hampshire is a key state in presidential candidate nominating process. A win there ensures national attention - every voter would hear about Ron Paul and would judge him based on his record and his positions. yambag NC-Stern-Mark Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero I guess a pinata party in San Jose, would know better? :) :lol: :lol: :lol: Probably had little bottles of tequila and a few joints in that piñata too! Crazytree Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark :lol: :lol: :lol: Probably had little bottles of tequila and a few joints in that piñata too! Don't get upset because you are unskilled and easily replaceable. :) zimmie I'll keep a tally of his progress to date... 184 votes at a picnic in New Hampshire + 1 HolyCon ____ 185 supporters on record 59,999, 815 more needed for 60 million votes Crazytree Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero Income Tax... He wants it abolished. You take issue with that, without knowing his plan? Please explain to me his idea to "abolish the income tax", because in its most easily-understood interpretation, the idea sounds pretty stupid. Reverend Tyler Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero His position on Abortion is that it's wrong, but noting in the Constitution allows for the Federal government to make a ruling that overrules any State's ruling. Roe V Wade has no basis in constitution law... Where do you disagree? I disagree that Roe vs Wade should be overturned, thats what I fucking disagree with. Ninth and Fourteenth Amendments. Maybe you think having back alley abortions come back is a good thing, but I dont. That right there would get me not to vot e for somebody for president. To know that he would nominate another Antonin Scalia or Uncle Clarence Thomas is not something I would ever vote for. Quote: I haven't heard any position on gay rights, except that gays in the military shouldn't be held to any different standard than anyone else.... do you take exception with that? I take exception with him voting to ban homosexual adoption in DC Quote: The Environment... again, Dr Paul's position is that the Federal government is the biggest contributor to the Pollution in America. This is a complex issue, not easily explained in a few sentences, but since the Federal Government is the biggest polluter of the environment... if your candidate has a better plan to decrease the size of Federal government, let's have at it... Dont really see how you say the federal governemtn is the biggest polluter of the environment... That doesnt really make any sense. I certainly dont think energy companies shouold be able to decide for themselves whether they should try to cut down carbon emissions and pollution Quote: Healthcare? Could you be more specific? Sure...hes against it... Im for it...simple enough? Quote: Income Tax... He wants it abolished. You take issue with that, without knowing his plan? What do you gain from paying out close to half of your earnings for failed foreign policies, and corporate hand outs? :confused: Theres quite a bit I could get out of it if the money went to more places I would prefer it to go, such as education and healthcare. Would you like some more? I disagree with his stance against fedrally funding Stem Cell Research. I disagree that we should pass a constitutional amendment forcing prayer on public schools, while simultaneously refusing to fund them. I disagree with him on not wanting to raise CAFE standards or create incentives for alternative fuels. I disagree with not wanting to go along with the Kyoto Protocol I disagree with him wanting to abolish Medicare. If you agree with all that, then fine, go ahead and support him. But dont think Im going to vote for him because I partially agree with him on a few issues, yet disagree with him on most. NC-Stern-Mark Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree Don't get upset because you are unskilled and easily replaceable. :) My God, you really are really an arrogant asswipe. :) Reminds me of the old joke, it's only 98% of janitors that give the other 2% a bad name... PS I do apologize to janitors everywhere for that low-blow. I would hate to be associated with that arrogant prick CT in any way Crazytree Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark My God, you really are really an arrogant asswipe. :) Reminds me of the old joke, it's only 98% of janitors that give the other 2% a bad name... PS I do apologize to janitors everywhere for that low-blow. I would hate to be associated with that arrogant prick CT in any way you've been giving me shit and accusing me of being a liar and I'm being an asswipe? cry harder, faggot. NC-Stern-Mark Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree you've been giving me shit and accusing me of being a liar and I'm being an asswipe? cry harder, faggot. Who's crying bitch! You're the only little crying lying bitch in here. Why don't you go cry on Dr Ivan's shoulder again douchebag? Crazytree honestly, what do you do? fix air conditioners? machines that suck the cum out of chickens? NC-Stern-Mark Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree honestly, what do you do? fix air conditioners? machines that suck the cum out of chickens? Only arrogant assholes assign the value of a human being to work that person does for a living. Perhaps, only a short little Mexican with a chip on his shoulder would care... :) What difference does it make CT, whatever I do, YOU'RE STILL AN ASSHOLE who deserves no respect because you have no respect for other people. :) Are you sure you're old enough to drink legally? Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler I disagree that Roe vs Wade should be overturned, thats what I fucking disagree with. Ninth and Fourteenth Amendments. Maybe you think having back alley abortions come back is a good thing, but I dont. That right there would get me not to vot e for somebody for president. To know that he would nominate another Antonin Scalia or Uncle Clarence Thomas is not something I would ever vote for. Easy there... nobody is suggesting that abortion should be illegal. I also disagree that either the ninth or the fourteenth amendments speak to abortion. Overturning Roe V Wade would not out abortion, but rather it would free up a lot of the politics that divides the country morally. This talking point is merely a distraction from the real issues facing the Federal government. Both side use it as a tool to solidify their voter base. For the record; I am pro-choice, Dr Paul is not... but we both agree that the Federal government has no dog in this fight. If Dr Paul were President, I would have complete faith that any appointment he made to the Supreme Court would be a staunch Constitutionalist, like himself. I'm cool with that. Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler I take exception with him voting to ban homosexual adoption in DC From Wiki: Congressman Paul's position on gay marriage is that defining and recognizing marriages is not a Federal or constitutional matter, but should be left as the States' right.[30] In 1999 he voted for H.R. 2587 which contained an amendment that sought to prevent the use of Federal funding for the promotion of adoptions of foster children being used to promote joint adoptions by unrelated, unmarried people. There was no mention of gay adoptions in the bill, but the amendment could have been construed to act negatively upon gay couples adopting children in the District of Columbia, and in any event was not present in the final bill.[31] Had another bill asked for Federal funding for Married couples, I'm willing to bet Dr Paul would have voted against that too... He votes against the funding, not the rights to do so... stop believing what you're told, and do a little research. Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Dont really see how you say the federal governemtn is the biggest polluter of the environment... That doesnt really make any sense. I certainly dont think energy companies shouold be able to decide for themselves whether they should try to cut down carbon emissions and pollution I could explain it to you, I could Copy and paste, or I could just link... How about I link... :) http://www.lp.org/issues/environment.shtml Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Sure...hes against it... Im for it...simple enough? Oh, he's against health care... a Doctor, is against health care? :rolleyes: He's against socialized health care... so am I. The health care system in the US is a government sponsored racket. More of the same, breeds more of the same. Government is the problem, not the answer! :mad: Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Theres quite a bit I could get out of it if the money went to more places I would prefer it to go, such as education and healthcare. Well if you didn't have to pay income tax, you could do just that. Donate as much of that money as you like, to the charity of your choice. Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Would you like some more? Please :) Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler I disagree with his stance against fedrally funding Stem Cell Research. I don't... I disagree with the Religious Right calling the shots... Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler I disagree that we should pass a constitutional amendment forcing prayer on public schools, while simultaneously refusing to fund them. LOL... he's the language of the bill. I'm sure you've never read it... Nothing in this Constitution shall be construed to prohibit individual or group prayer in public schools or other public institutions. No person shall be required by the United States or by any State to participate in prayer . Neither the United States nor any State shall compose the words of any prayer to be said in public schools. Yea, he's practically Pat Robertson... :funny: You gotta stop parroting what people tell you, and look for yourself. You're a smart guy... dig a little. :) Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler I disagree with him on not wanting to raise CAFE standards or create incentives for alternative fuels. How about we worry about the subsidies provided to Big Oil, first? If this were truly a free market, alternatives would float to the top anyway. Look at the big picture. Alternative fuel will never be profitable as long as the Federal government artificially backs Big Oil. Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler I disagree with not wanting to go along with the Kyoto Protocol I agree that unless everyone goes along, it's meaningless. It places an unfair advantage to the industrialize countries not adhering. We are trying to close the gaps in trade deficits, not widen them. Dr Paul feels that the UN has little authority in the world without the US to provide the muscle... Fuck the UN. Just another entangling alliance that would have kept us out of Vietnam and Kosovo. Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler I disagree with him wanting to abolish Medicare. It has to be dismantled eventually, or it will bankrupt us. The problem is the Pharmaceutical cartels, not the benefits. Nobody is looking to just let old people die off... :rolleyes: Again, if it were a free system not subsidized by the government, it would be more affordable for everyone. The problems come with the governmental control. We pay more than everyone else in the world by design. We have the most money, so we subsidize the entire world. If it were legal to buy drugs, by prescription, from foreign countries, over the internet... nobody would need a prescription rider on their insurance. You get the picture? It's a racket... Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler If you agree with all that, then fine, go ahead and support him. But dont think Im going to vote for him because I partially agree with him on a few issues, yet disagree with him on most. I absolutely do... I voted for him in '88, I will vote for him in the NY Republican primary; and god willing, I will vote for him for President in '08 :) Crazytree Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark Only arrogant assholes assign the value of a human being to work that person does for a living. Perhaps, only a short little Mexican with a chip on his shoulder would care... :) What difference does it make CT, whatever I do, YOU'RE STILL AN ASSHOLE who deserves no respect because you have no respect for other people. :) Are you sure you're old enough to drink legally? You're demanding that I post specific identifying information on the internet, yet you would tell us what you do for a living specifically? You truly are the definitive hypocrite. And I'm not short. :cool: Crazytree MZ: if you want to look at a great example of a society with no income tax... look no further than AFghanistan and Somalia. :rolleyes: Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree MZ: if you want to look at a great example of a society with no income tax... look no further than AFghanistan and Somalia. :rolleyes: Intellectually worthless response. Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero Easy there... nobody is suggesting that abortion should be illegal. I also disagree that either the ninth or the fourteenth amendments speak to abortion. Overturning Roe V Wade would not out abortion, but rather it would free up a lot of the politics that divides the country morally. This talking point is merely a distraction from the real issues facing the Federal government. Both side use it as a tool to solidify their voter base. For the record; I am pro-choice, Dr Paul is not... but we both agree that the Federal government has no dog in this fight. If Dr Paul were President, I would have complete faith that any appointment he made to the Supreme Court would be a staunch Constitutionalist, like himself. I'm cool with that. From Wiki: Congressman Paul's position on gay marriage is that defining and recognizing marriages is not a Federal or constitutional matter, but should be left as the States' right.[30] In 1999 he voted for H.R. 2587 which contained an amendment that sought to prevent the use of Federal funding for the promotion of adoptions of foster children being used to promote joint adoptions by unrelated, unmarried people. There was no mention of gay adoptions in the bill, but the amendment could have been construed to act negatively upon gay couples adopting children in the District of Columbia, and in any event was not present in the final bill.[31] Had another bill asked for Federal funding for Married couples, I'm willing to bet Dr Paul would have voted against that too... He votes against the funding, not the rights to do so... stop believing what your told, and do a little research. I could explain it to you, I could Copy and paste, or I could just link... How about I link... :) http://www.lp.org/issues/environment.shtml Oh, he's against health care... a Doctor, is against health care? :rolleyes: He's against socialized health care... so am I. The health care system in the US is a government sponsored racket. More of the same, breeds more of the same. Government is the problem, not the answer! :mad: Well if you didn't have to pay income tax, you could do just that. Donate as much of that money as you like, to the charity of your choice. Please :) I don't... I disagree with the Religious Right calling the shots... LOL... he's the language of the bill. I'm sure you've never read it... Nothing in this Constitution shall be construed to prohibit individual or group prayer in public schools or other public institutions. No person shall be required by the United States or by any State to participate in prayer . Neither the United States nor any State shall compose the words of any prayer to be said in public schools. Yea, he's practically Pat Robertson... :funny: You gotta stop parroting what people tell you, and look for yourself. You're a smart guy... dig a little. :) How about we worry about the subsidies provided to Big Oil, first? If this were truly a free market, alternatives would float to the top anyway. Look at the big picture. Alternative fuel will never be profitable as long as the Federal government artificially backs Big Oil. I agree that unless everyone goes along, it's meaningless. It places an unfair advantage to the industrialize countries not adhering. We are trying to close the gaps in trade deficits, not widen them. Dr Paul feels that the UN has little authority in the world without the US to provide the muscle... Fuck the UN. Just another entangling alliance that would have kept us out of Vietnam and Kosovo. It has to be dismantled eventually, or it will bankrupt us. The problem is the Pharmaceutical cartels, not the benefits. Nobody is looking to just let old people die off... :rolleyes: Again, if it were a free system not subsidized by the government, it would be more affordable for everyone. The problems come with the governmental control. We pay more than everyone else in the world by design. We have the most money, so we subsidize the entire world. If it were legal to buy drugs, by prescription, from foreign countries, over the internet... nobody would need a prescription rider on their insurance. You get the picture? It's a racket... I absolutely do... I voted for him in '88, I will vote for him in the NY Republican primary; and god willing, I will vote for him for President in '08 :) Great post. Reverend Tyler so you're pro-choice, but you have no problem with the entire south outlawing it? I do. I thi9nk its a ridiculous position to be for a womans right to choose to have an abortion, yet think ts ok for the governemnt to take away that choice. They tried doing that before Roe v Wade, and it didnt exactly work. Private healthcare does not cover people who can not afford it. Perhaps you think its ok if people cant afford healthcare, I dont. I certainly dont think a child born into poverty should have to suffer because they couldnt get healthcare. so I ask you this, since Im against about 80% of Paul's platform, why in the owrld should I vote for him? Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler so you're pro-choice, but you have no problem with the entire south outlawing it? I do. I thi9nk its a ridiculous position to be for a womans right to choose to have an abortion, yet think ts ok for the governemnt to take away that choice. They tried doing that before Roe v Wade, and it didnt exactly work. I don't think the federal government should fund abortions. Look Rev, if you become pregnant, there are still plenty of options... federally funded abortion shouldn't be the best one. :( Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Private healthcare does not cover people who can not afford it. Perhaps you think its ok if people cant afford healthcare, I dont. I certainly dont think a child born into poverty should have to suffer because they couldnt get healthcare. LOL, spare me the melodramatics... the poor are provided for, as are the rich. The only ones suffering from the current health care system, are the working middle class... It's people like me and Kali, that don't have coverage... Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler so I ask you this, since Im against about 80% of Paul's platform, why in the owrld should I vote for him? If you are a "cradle to grave, socialist", you shouldn't... if you believe in a free market America, as it was intended, you would look further... stop parroting what you've heard, and take a position. Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Private healthcare does not cover people who can not afford it. Perhaps you think its ok if people cant afford healthcare, I dont. I certainly dont think a child born into poverty should have to suffer because they couldnt get healthcare. Government intervention in the healthcare and education industries is the reason why the situation in these industries is so dire. Why do you think that more government intervention will reverse the trend? It is not logical. Look at the example of the technology industries, where there has been little government interference. When people are allowed to make rational decisions in a free market, quality and availability increase while prices decrease. Even the poorest people can afford cell phones and computers. Competition in the economy is like natural selection in nature. Socialism is like intelligent design except that the economic planners are totally incapable of running an economy. It is a task that is beyond the capacity of any human being or government entity. The Soviets were pretty smart, but they couldn't do it. Central economic planning has been shown to be a failed system, but if you believe in that system anyway, then you should support Obama or Hillary. Reverend Tyler Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero I don't think the federal government should fund abortions. Look Rev, if you become pregnant, there are still plenty of options... federally funded abortion shouldn't be the best one. :( Complete strawman. Roe V Wade does not fund abortions, it makes it a constitutionally protected right to have one. If Roe V Wade is reversed, then most of the conservative states in the US will then ban abortions. If you think a woman has the right to choose, why do you think it is a right that could be taken away in half the US? Quote: LOL, spare me the melodramatics... the poor are provided for, as are the rich. The only ones suffering from the current health care system, are the working middle class... It's people like me and Kali, that don't have coverage... The poor wont be provided for if you take away any benefits they might be able to get. And do you like not having healthcare? Are you saying you would prefer not to have healthcare then have the government provide it for you? Well, under Barack Obama's plan you would be able to refuse it. Quote: If you are a "cradle to grave, socialist", you shouldn't... if you believe in a free market America, as it was intended, you would look further... stop parroting what you've heard, and take a position. Take a position?!?! How have I not taken a position on him? I would never vote for him. Quote: Originally posted by Richard Wagner Even the poorest people can afford cell phones and computers Wow. Just...wow You weren't serious there were you? Please tell me you dont think "even the poorest people" could afford a computer. Perhaps you didnt realize it Luther, but there are many, many people who work two full time jobs just so they can afford rent and food for their kids. Buying a computer isn't exactly going to fit in their budget. Crazytree Quote: Originally posted by Richard Wagner Intellectually worthless response. Surely you can give me examples of successful societies with no income tax? Then we can see which is truly the intellectually worthless response. Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Complete strawman. Roe V Wade does not fund abortions, it makes it a constitutionally protected right to have one. Exactly... that's what Ron Paul voted against... THE FUNDING!! There is no constitutional basis for Roe V Wade... if you feel strongly enough to form an amendment that addresses abortion directly, that is another thread... (one that I believe Dr Paul supports, BTW) Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler If Roe V Wade is reversed, then most of the conservative states in the US will then ban abortions. If you think a woman has the right to choose, why do you think it is a right that could be taken away in half the US? A) Because there is nothing in the Constitution that forbids it... and B) Because if it's that important, safe medical practices will still be available in the overwhelming majority of civilized America... :) Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler The poor wont be provided for if you take away any benefits they might be able to get. And do you like not having healthcare? Are you saying you would prefer not to have healthcare then have the government provide it for you? Well, under Barack Obama's plan you would be able to refuse it. I would like not having to subsidize the world... I would like to be able to buy prescription drugs at the prices other nations enjoy... Rev, you cannot win this argument. Our system is among the worst in the free world. If you think you can sucker me into socialized health care, you are very wrong. Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Take a position?!?! How have I not taken a position on him? I would never vote for him. We get it... you're excused If you continue to defend failed socialist systems, you're excused from voting for Ron Paul. :) Please feel free to support whoever would continue your way of thinking... :hw: I can't wait, to see who you support :) Reverend Tyler Im going to vote for Barack Obama, a Harvard Law Graduate magna cum laude who was the first black president in the 104 year history of the Harvard Law Review. Personally I think thats a bit more on the credentials than a Texas vagina doctor. The basis of Roe V Wade in the constitution is both the 9th and 14th amendments as upheld by the Supreme Court on numerous occasions with the only people voting against being far right wing justices like Scalia and Uncle Thomas. Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Im going to vote for Barack Obama, a Harvard Law Graduate magna cum laude who was the first black president in the 104 year history of the Harvard Law Review. Personally I think thats a bit more on the credentials than a Texas vagina doctor. Ron Paul is a 10th term congressman, educated in his home state of Pennsylvania... He was drafted during the Vietnam War into the United States Air Force. He served as a flight surgeon at Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas from 1963 to 1965. Personally, I think you're assessment is full of distilled owl shit... :mad: Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler The basis of Roe V Wade in the constitution is both the 9th and 14th amendments as upheld by the Supreme Court on numerous occasions with the only people voting against being far right wing justices like Scalia and Uncle Thomas. If that were true, there would be no debate on the issue... I guess you are wrong, yet again. Reverend Tyler No, the debate on the issue is that either A - the fetus is itself a person and protected by the constitution or B - the right to privacy is not in the constitution. Either way, only Scalia, Uncle Thomas, Alito and Roberts - the 4 very far right justices - support overturning the decision. Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler No, the debate on the issue is that either A - the fetus is itself a person and protected by the constitution or B - the right to privacy is not in the constitution. Either way, only Scalia, Uncle Thomas, Alito and Roberts - the 4 very far right justices - support overturning the decision. No, the issue is whether this issue should be decided on a state's or federal level... There is no basis in the constitution to support one way or the other. That (by default) leaves it to the state. If you base your vote on this one issue alone, you are also excused from voting for Ron Paul. Please vote for Obama... at least he had the sense to not support the war in Iraq from the onslaught... that makes him smarter than all the rest. (except Kusinich) nunpuncher please rev tell me the positions obama has taken you like Reverend Tyler healthcare affirmative action foreign affairs gay rights minimum wage capital gains being taxed as regular income school vouchers using nuclear energy network neutrality immigration reform (although I disagree with the fence) moderate gun control stem cell research Enough for you? Reverend Tyler Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero No, the issue is whether this issue should be decided on a state's or federal level... There is no basis in the constitution to support one way or the other. That (by default) leaves it to the state. Thats your opinion. Legal precedent, the Supreme Court and the vast majority of constitutional lawyers disagree with you. Quote: If you base your vote on this one issue alone, you are also excused from voting for Ron Paul. Please vote for Obama... at least he had the sense to not support the war in Iraq from the onslaught... that makes him smarter than all the rest. (except Kusinich) Dude, I mentioned like 20 issues as to how I disagree with him, not just that one. But to nominate another Scalia would absolutely be a deal-breaker, yes. Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler healthcare affirmative action foreign affairs gay rights minimum wage capital gains being taxed as regular income school vouchers using nuclear energy network neutrality immigration reform (although I disagree with the fence) moderate gun control stem cell research Enough for you? Yup... it's more than enough for me to not support him... :) Affirmative action?!?! :funny: Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Thats your opinion. Legal precedent, the Supreme Court and the vast majority of constitutional lawyers disagree with you. If it were settled, it would be settled... it's not. There is no foundation in the constitution to support Roe V Wade. To pretend there is, is to deny this issue exists. It does, it's not going away... maybe Obama should push for an Amendment... :giggle: Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Dude, I mentioned like 20 issues as to how I disagree with him, not just that one. But to nominate another Scalia would absolutely be a deal-breaker, yes. And, I shot you down on all of them... Give up? :) nunpuncher Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler healthcare affirmative action foreign affairs gay rights minimum wage capital gains being taxed as regular income school vouchers using nuclear energy network neutrality immigration reform (although I disagree with the fence) moderate gun control stem cell research Enough for you? no please go into detail they are just talking points Reverend Tyler Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero If it were settled, it would be settled... it's not. There is no foundation in the constitution to support Roe V Wade. To pretend there is, is to deny this issue exists. It does, it's not going away... maybe Obama should push for an Amendment... :giggle: Are you NCMike now? The Supreme Court disagrees with you, and has since Roe V Wade was decided. Do you know what precedent means? It means that it has been upheld multiple times. Has it been a unanimous decison? No, they very rarely are. The only reason the issue is getting scarier is because the last 3 republican nominees have been fucking horrid. I guess you agree with the far right wing justices on the court. I do not. Quote: And, I shot you down on all of them... Give up? :) You shot me down on what? That I really do agree with him that the government should ignore health care? That the federal government should not regulate any environmental controls whatsoever? That abolishing the department of education is going to magically turn the state of education around? That abolishing the income tax isnt retarded? Reverend Tyler Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero Yup... it's more than enough for me to not support him... :) Affirmative action?!?! :funny: Interesting that you probably dont even know what his stance on afirmative action is, which is that he is open to transitioning affirmative action to be a class based system rather than race-based. If you think Affirmative action has never been necessary then I highly disagree with you. Reverend Tyler Quote: Originally posted by nunpuncher no please go into detail they are just talking points Fucking maybe tomorrow dude, its 2 am nunpuncher lol thats cool have a good night sleep NC-Stern-Mark Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree You're demanding that I post specific identifying information on the internet, yet you would tell us what you do for a living specifically? You truly are the definitive hypocrite. I'm not the one beating my chest. What are you scared of CT, you started this. Go ahead and post the info, maybe you'll get some business. There must be a few illegal immigrants on SFN that needs a lawyer who works cheap... And for the second time, my occupation is listed on my profile, where it's been listed since I joined. Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree And I'm not short. :cool: You're short on brains and a few other essential elements that qualify people as human beings. curleydan reverend, why are you so scared if alabama votes to ban abortion? every state in this union has different laws on just about every subject, why does abortion or marriage or whatever else need to be decided by the federal government? you like to bring up the 9th and 14th amendments, which im not sure do much for supporting the "right" to an abortion, certainly not the 14th, but you ignore the 10th amendment completely which is the whole basis of this being a state issue. the federal government was never intended nor was it designed to handle issues like this. that is exactly why the 10th amendment was put in there. Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree Surely you can give me examples of successful societies with no income tax? Then we can see which is truly the intellectually worthless response. Another intellectually worthless response. First you present the logical fallacy that the absence of an income tax is the cause of failed societies in Afghanistan and Somalia. Then you present another logical fallacy by implying that because all major nations now impose an income tax on their citizens a successful society without such economic oppression is impossible. In the year 1700 you would have argued that a successful society without a monarch is impossible. One only need observe the rise of the United States from its birth in 1776 to status as world power in 1913 without an income tax. Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Wow. Just...wow You weren't serious there were you? Please tell me you dont think "even the poorest people" could afford a computer. Perhaps you didnt realize it Luther, but there are many, many people who work two full time jobs just so they can afford rent and food for their kids. Buying a computer isn't exactly going to fit in their budget. Computers cost under $400 now; even someone working 20 hours a week at McDonalds can afford that. No informed person actually thinks that computers are expensive. Is that what you are arguing? I do not know what you are trying to say. You did not respond substantively to anything in my post. Reverend Tyler Quote: Originally posted by Richard Wagner Computers cost under $400 now; even someone working 20 hours a week at McDonalds can afford that. No informed person actually thinks that computers are expensive. Is that what you are arguing? I do not know what you are trying to say. You did not respond substantively to anything in my post. You are completely disconnected from reality if you think somebody who works 20 hours a week at McDonalds could afford a computer. Do you live at home by chance? Im guessing you do... Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler You are completely disconnected from reality if you think somebody who works 20 hours a week at McDonalds could afford a computer. Do you live at home by chance? Im guessing you do... Like Crazytree, you are demonstrating a severe logical deficiency. You missed the point of my original post entirely. You are trying to redirect the discussion and avoid responding to the argument. That some people may not be able to afford a computer because other necessary costs consume all of their income does not mean that computers are expensive. To use such reasoning is a logical fallacy. If you want to discuss why in a country of great wealth such as this there is poverty, I would be happy to, but that subject deserves its own thread. Computers and other technology products are in fact inexpensive and are constantly decreasing in cost and increasing in quality (usefulness) and availability. The point of my original post which you either completely missed or intentionally ignored is that industries where government intervention is excessive (healthcare, education) are deprived of the benefits of free market competition. Thus rising healthcare costs, rising energy costs, decreasing quality of public education, etc. blicknasty For love of global communism, for love of slavery, for love of oppression and tyranny, I will never support Ron Paul. :rolleyes: Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by blicknasty For love of global communism, for love of slavery, for love of oppression and tyranny, I will never support Ron Paul. :rolleyes: "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." - George Bernard Shaw blicknasty Quote: Originally posted by Richard Wagner "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." - George Bernard Shaw Then it must be true, that we are a nation of cowards. Reverend Tyler You guys are nuts if you think a world run by corporations is preferable to a representative body. zimmie Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero [B]Ron Paul is a 10th term congressman, educated in his home state of Pennsylvania... He was drafted during the Vietnam War into the United States Air Force. He served as a flight surgeon at Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas from 1963 to 1965. Personally, I think you're assessment is full of distilled owl shit... :mad: If that were true, there would be no debate on the issue... I guess you are wrong, yet again. [/B] Ten term Congressman is Dr. Paul....After all that time............. Number of Members of Congress that support him......................................0 Number of bills he's written that have past in 20 years...............................0 yep.....he sounds like he'd bring together the country huh? Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by zimmie Ten term Congressman is Dr. Paul....After all that time............. Number of Members of Congress that support him......................................0 Number of bills he's written that have past in 20 years...............................0 yep.....he sounds like he'd bring together the country huh? :lol: Thorswhore Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler You guys are nuts if you think a world run by corporations is preferable to a representative body. the representative body prefers corporations.. LOL. Crazytree Quote: Originally posted by Richard Wagner Another intellectually worthless response. First you present the logical fallacy that the absence of an income tax is the cause of failed societies in Afghanistan and Somalia. Then you present another logical fallacy by implying that because all major nations now impose an income tax on their citizens a successful society without such economic oppression is impossible. In the year 1700 you would have argued that a successful society without a monarch is impossible. One only need observe the rise of the United States from its birth in 1776 to status as world power in 1913 without an income tax. you live with your parents... what possible worldview and experiences could you possibly be drawing upon to take any philosophically justifiable position on the income tax. have you ever even paid income tax in the top brackets? [sarcasm] you would have us living in 1913 conditions, with no health care for the poor, no nationally standardized education system, thousands of children dying of malnourishment, rampant TB and other infectious disease, no workplace safety, child labor, 28 hour work days, an anemic military, rampant political corruption, low life expectancies, no interstate freeway system, no air traffic system, an inefficient railway system, et al. IE Afghanistan and Somalia. zimmie Face it...every election some moonbats become groupies to someone who's unelectable and have ideas (i.e., eliminate federal income tax) that are going nowhere. This guy Paul has no support from anyone but these groupies. If RW wants to be his groupie, good for him. Reverend Tyler Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree you live with your parents... what possible worldview and experiences could you possibly be drawing upon to take any philosophically justifiable position on the income tax. have you ever even paid income tax in the top brackets? [sarcasm] you would have us living in 1913 conditions, with no health care for the poor, no nationally standardized education system, thousands of children dying of malnourishment, rampant TB and other infectious disease, no workplace safety, child labor, 28 hour work days, an anemic military, rampant political corruption, low life expectancies, no interstate freeway system, no air traffic system, an inefficient railway system, et al. IE Afghanistan and Somalia. Oh no! If the corporations were allowed to set their won wages they would pay their workers much higher than what minimum wage sets up! ArivacaCharlie Quote: Originally posted by Richard Wagner http://blog.ronpaul2008.com/ron_pau...-release-r.html Press Release: Ron Paul Wins Big Ron Paul Wins Big in First New Hampshire Straw Poll FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 7, 2007 ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – Presidential candidate Ron Paul today won the Coalition for New Hampshire Taxpayers (CNHT) straw poll at their annual picnic in Hopkinton, New Hampshire. Dr. Paul received 182 of 294 votes cast, or 65 percent. In second place was Rudy Giuliani with 24 votes, or 8 percent. "Today's strong victory is further proof that Dr. Paul's message is resonating throughout New Hampshire," said campaign manager Lew Moore. "Dr. Paul is the only candidate in this race truly dedicated to smaller government and lower taxes for all Americans." CNHT is a statewide, grassroots organization dedicated to reducing the size of government at all levels, stopping judicial activism, providing students and parents with a choice of educational opportunities, expanding job markets, and protecting property rights. Well, that's a hopeful sign at least. Don't count your chickens too early, though. I still can't believe the RNC will allow as progressive a candidate as Paul to fly their banner. Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree you live with your parents... what possible worldview and experiences could you possibly be drawing upon to take any philosophically justifiable position on the income tax. have you ever even paid income tax in the top brackets? [sarcasm] you would have us living in 1913 conditions, with no health care for the poor, no nationally standardized education system, thousands of children dying of malnourishment, rampant TB and other infectious disease, no workplace safety, child labor, 28 hour work days, an anemic military, rampant political corruption, low life expectancies, no interstate freeway system, no air traffic system, an inefficient railway system, et al. IE Afghanistan and Somalia. Where's the logic? Where's the argument? There is none, you slow and ignorant adult. Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler You guys are nuts if you think a world run by corporations is preferable to a representative body. How about a world where people run their own lives? Corporations have no power except that which they obtain through influence (bribery) of so called representative bodies. The evidence is very clear, the majority of government policies benefit some corporate special interest or another. Occasionally they throw a few scraps like minimum wage and socialist rhetoric in order to keep gullible people like you content. Limit the power of corporations by limiting the power of government. kali Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler You are completely disconnected from reality if you think somebody who works 20 hours a week at McDonalds could afford a computer. Do you live at home by chance? Im guessing you do... can they afford to use the computers in the local library??? Reverend Tyler You mean the local library provided by the government? :rolleyes: Reverend Tyler Quote: Originally posted by Richard Wagner Where's the logic? Where's the argument? There is none, you slow and ignorant adult. The argument is that without an income tax there are several government-provided resources that wouldn't get done. Yes I know, you think some private company is just going to do it for the hell of it. Crazytree Quote: Originally posted by Richard Wagner How about a world where people run their own lives? Corporations have no power except that which they obtain through influence (bribery) of so called representative bodies. The evidence is very clear, the majority of government policies benefit some corporate special interest or another. Occasionally they throw a few scraps like minimum wage and socialist rhetoric in order to keep gullible people like you content. Limit the power of corporations by limiting the power of government. The corporations that you worship at the feet of would gladly patent your DNA and genes and sell you off like a piece of cattle if they had the opportunity. Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler The argument is that without an income tax there are several government-provided resources that wouldn't get done. Yes I know, you think some private company is just going to do it for the hell of it. If something is wanted, people will be willing to pay for it. If people are willing to pay for something, profit-seeking companies or individuals will provide it. Crazytree Quote: Originally posted by Richard Wagner If something is wanted, people will be willing to pay for it. If people are willing to pay for something, profit-seeking companies or individuals will provide it. So if people want to fuck young children and babies, the dollar vote should be obeyed? Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree So if people want to fuck young children and babies, the dollar vote should be obeyed? :ec: That might be the most bizarre leap I've ever seen anyone make... You're a weird dude, CT. Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Crazytree So if people want to fuck young children and babies, the dollar vote should be obeyed? No person has the right to sell or buy a child or commit sexual acts with a child. That is what is known as slavery and rape. Human morality has evolved beyond that. If a woman herself wishes to engage in prostitution, the consensual exchange of sexual intercourse for money, it is morally acceptable. I suspect however that you are not serious about what you ask, but that you have reached your wit's end and your only recourse is to spew nonsensical absurdities. Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler You mean the local library provided by the government? :rolleyes: The Federal government is responsible for you having a library in your town? I don't know what what the Federal government supplements, but I doubt it's much. If you know, please enlighten me. Reverend Tyler Are you against government or just the federal government? A true libertarian wouldnt want the governemnt involved locally either. Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Are you against government or just the federal government? A true libertarian wouldnt want the governemnt involved locally either. It is not a matter of being against government it is a matter of being against the government doing things that it has no authority to do. The federal government has only those powers specifically granted to it by the Constitution; the state and local governments have all powers except for those specifically denied by the Constitution. That is what is known as the rule of law, and many people still actually believe in that concept. Timmy Heres a secret.............New Hampshire is filled with idiots! Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Are you against government or just the federal government? A true libertarian wouldnt want the governemnt involved locally either. What you are describing is an Anarchist... I'm a Libertarian, not an Anarchist. The issue here is Ron Paul, and his positions on the Federal government... after all, he's running for President. That's a Federal government Job... Reverend Tyler Quote: Originally posted by Timmy Heres a secret.............New Hampshire is filled with idiots! No it isnt. Its a nice progressive blue state. Timmy Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler No it isnt. Its a nice progressive blue state. No way man. They are crazy rabble rousing hillbillies. So unlike their liberal neighbors. Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Timmy Heres a secret.............New Hampshire is filled with idiots! :lol: Vermont is filled with idiots!! NH is actually a pretty cool state. The roads suck, but other than that... :) Richard Wagner Quote: Originally posted by Monster_Zero :lol: Vermont is filled with idiots!! NH is actually a pretty cool state. The roads suck, but other than that... :) Not the people in the Vermont secession movement. Monster_Zero Quote: Originally posted by Richard Wagner Not the people in the Vermont secession movement. I meant the people who drive, in and around Burlington. :) Crazytree Quote: Originally posted by Richard Wagner No person has the right to sell or buy a child or commit sexual acts with a child. That is what is known as slavery and rape. Human morality has evolved beyond that. If a woman herself wishes to engage in prostitution, the consensual exchange of sexual intercourse for money, it is morally acceptable. I suspect however that you are not serious about what you ask, but that you have reached your wit's end and your only recourse is to spew nonsensical absurdities. I love boxing blowhards in, one issue at a time... Does a corporation have the right to profit from the deaths of US soldiers to the tune of BILLIONS OF DOLLARS if the customer [the US gov't or the US public] will pay for their services? Does a corporation have the right to OWN human DNA and genes and sell it back to the public as gene therapies? And please don't act like you're smarter than me and that that gives you license to ignore my hypos... </