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UK: Hospital suspends Muslim chaplain...
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| UK: Hospital suspends Muslim chaplain...
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| Stonewall |
Hospital suspends Muslim chaplain
London, Sept. 21 (PTI): A Muslim preacher who chanted "Allah-o-Akbar" (God is great) while showing children film of planes flying into the World Trade Centre has been suspended as a chaplain at a hospital here.
Usman Ali, 30, a former member of the now-banned al-Muhajiroun radical movement, was removed from his post after police expressed serious concerns, media reported today. Ali was ousted from his job at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Woolwich, south-east London, after a BBC London investigation into the incident.
Before losing his job, Ali upset people at Friday prayers by inviting a guest preacher who praised pro-Taliban rebels in Pakistan as martyrs, The Times reported. The preacher, a British-born father of four, had previously been banned for life from a local mosque, the Greenwich Islamic Centre. The institution spent at least 30,000 pounds taking legal action to the county court so that Ali could be forbidden from attending the mosque.
Court papers claim he showed a video to children in the mosque containing clips of the 9/11 incident and chanted "Allah-o-Akbar". The mosque said it tried informally to warn the hospital about its concerns months ago.
According to the report, the BBC attended a session at the Queen Elizabeth's prayer room where worshippers became uncomfortable hearing radical views expressed by a guest preacher who hailed the militants of the Lal Masjid in Pakistan as defenders of Islam. The hospital trust said: "We had no allegations made about this man's behaviour but as soon as the police raised their concerns we took action."
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Capt. WTF!
WTF ! |
Islam is just like any other religion... that slams planes into buildings.
Cannibalism is just another religion... that likes to eat humans.
All are welcome into the U.S., of course.
:) |
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| Ass Boil |
Sounds like the majority of muslims find this guy to be a douche, yet Stumpy McFucknuts thinks he has found another gem.....
LOL |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Sounds like the majority of muslims find this guy to be a douche, yet Stumpy McFucknuts thinks he has found another gem.....
LOL |
Really... where at? |
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| Ass Boil |
| "Islam" flew planes into buildings? I thought it was 19 men who flew planes into buildings? How can a religion steer a plane? |
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| Stonewall |
Bin Laden has a higher approval rating in the Muslim world than does Bush in America. That shows the world what Islam is about.
In this instance we have the "elected" President of Iran. AssBoil is to give us his popularity numbers...Maybe. |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
"Islam" flew planes into buildings? I thought it was 19 men who flew planes into buildings? How can a religion steer a plane? |
How can "money" rob a bank? But we see people rob banks for money and we see muslims fly planes into buildings for Islam. |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
How can "money" rob a bank? But we see people rob banks for money and we see muslims fly planes into buildings for Islam. |
Thanks for proving my point, idiot.
PEOPLE rob banks and PEOPLE fly planes nto buildings.... robbing a bank is illegal and considered extremist by society, just like flying planes into buildings is....
What percentage of the population would you say rob banks, stumpy? |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Bin Laden has a higher approval rating in the Muslim world than does Bush in America. That shows the world what Islam is about.
In this instance we have the "elected" President of Iran. AssBoil is to give us his popularity numbers...Maybe. |
Dogshit has higher approval ratings than Bush in THIS country, you idiot.
And the poll you were referring to was taken in PAKISTAN only, NOT in "the muslim world"...... |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Dogshit has higher approval ratings than Bush in THIS country, you idiot.
And the poll you were referring to was taken in PAKISTAN only, NOT in "the muslim world"...... |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Sounds like the majority of muslims find this guy to be a douche, yet Stumpy McFucknuts thinks he has found another gem..... |
We are still waiting... |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
We are still waiting... |
That "we" refers ONLY to yourself, slugger. Try "I" next time, and don't insult anyone else on this board by lumping them in with you. No one wants that stigma. It's like lingering fresh dogshit. |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Hospital suspends Muslim chaplain
London, Sept. 21 (PTI): A Muslim preacher who chanted "Allah-o-Akbar" (God is great) while showing children film of planes flying into the World Trade Centre has been suspended as a chaplain at a hospital here.
Usman Ali, 30, a former member of the now-banned al-Muhajiroun radical movement, was removed from his post after police expressed serious concerns, media reported today. Ali was ousted from his job at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Woolwich, south-east London, after a BBC London investigation into the incident.
Before losing his job, Ali upset people at Friday prayers by inviting a guest preacher who praised pro-Taliban rebels in Pakistan as martyrs, The Times reported. The preacher, a British-born father of four, had previously been banned for life from a local mosque, the Greenwich Islamic Centre. The institution spent at least 30,000 pounds taking legal action to the county court so that Ali could be forbidden from attending the mosque.
Court papers claim he showed a video to children in the mosque containing clips of the 9/11 incident and chanted "Allah-o-Akbar". The mosque said it tried informally to warn the hospital about its concerns months ago.
According to the report, the BBC attended a session at the Queen Elizabeth's prayer room where worshippers became uncomfortable hearing radical views expressed by a guest preacher who hailed the militants of the Lal Masjid in Pakistan as defenders of Islam. The hospital trust said: "We had no allegations made about this man's behaviour but as soon as the police raised their concerns we took action."
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The mosque spent 30,000 pounds to go to court and make sure this douche was BANNED from their facility..... kinda seems like he might be in the minority, eh Stumpedballs? |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
We are still waiting... |
:gdf: |
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| Ass Boil |
| Where did you go, stumpy? |
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| Ass Boil |
Hello? Stumpy?
You were eagerly "waiting" for my answer, yet you disappeared right after I gave it..... :jj: |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Hello? Stumpy?
You were eagerly "waiting" for my answer, yet you disappeared right after I gave it..... :jj: |
Where is this answer you gave? |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Where is this answer you gave? |
:bigclap: Lord Rumsfeld would be so proud of you..... |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
The mosque spent 30,000 pounds to go to court and make sure this douche was BANNED from their facility..... kinda seems like he might be in the minority, eh Stumpedballs? |
You call that an answer?
Did you know that half the Mosques in the U.K. are happily Deobandi?
This one Mosque banning him does not put him in a minority. |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
You call that an answer?
Did you know that half the Mosques in the U.K. are happily Deobandi?
This one Mosque banning him does not put him in a minority. |
Sounds like a very scientific analysis :jj:
Even if you were correct in your implication that half the mosques in UK were "happily" controlled by some extremist element (you are not), you have not and CANNOT prove that all of the PEOPLE attending those mosques subscribe to those extremist views.
Your original article mentions several times how his extremist views made those he spoke to uncomfortable. Uncomfortable enough for one mosque to go to court to permanently ban him. You act as if that is meaningless....
Hearts and minds of young Muslims will be won or lost in the mosques
The new honesty of community leaders must be matched by a strategy from government that is patient and painstaking
Madeleine Bunting
Monday July 9, 2007
The Guardian
Two days after the 7/7 bombings in London two years ago, Muslim community leaders gathered at the London Muslim Centre to consider the impact of the attacks and who might have organised them. Many present refused to accept it might have been Muslims - the common refrain was that it could have been the French, because they had just lost the bid to host the Olympics.
The discussion had the younger generation of professional British-born Muslims grinding their teeth with frustration at the stubborn naivety of an older generation of leadership. Their elders had completely failed to grasp how the community had been swept up in a global political conflict that was interacting with a local crisis of identity and generational conflict.
Wind forward two years and the story has changed.On Friday, a campaign was launched with full-page newspaper adverts condemning the attempted bombings in London and Glasgow and pledging full support to avert future attacks. On Saturday, Muslim activists and imams from across the country gathered in London to consider what could be done to tackle extremism. Among the speakers were members of the Metropolitan police's counter-terrorism operations. More advertising campaigns are planned this week. Britain's Muslims have launched their most concerted attempt yet to win the hearts and minds of the public and distance themselves from the activities of violent extremists who claim to act in the name of their faith.
For a younger generation of community activists it's been the breakthrough for which they've been waiting for years. They admit that there has been denial in the community, which has inspired fanciful conspiracy theories, but what has enabled them to challenge that has been the sheer volume of evidence in recent trials. Violent extremism cannot be dismissed as the responsibility of the odd loner. Last week saw a succession of appalling news stories. First it was the shocking cases of the attempted London and Glasgow bombings in which respected doctors and fathers were alleged to have been the ringleaders. Then there were two terrorism trials, in Manchester and Woolwich, which resulted in three convictions.
For an older generation who migrated from impoverished areas of the rural subcontinent to offer their families a better life in the UK, this crisis is utterly, and painfully, bewildering: where did they go wrong? Such is their confusion and the pressure they are under, it might force this generation out of community leadership. Meanwhile, among their offspring, the crisis is prompting a huge soul-searching into what in their faith, historical and cultural background could give space for extremism to flourish. Many Muslims are incensed by injustice and angry about British foreign policy, but they don't plot to bomb innocent civilians - so what is it about these jihadis that draws them into such atrocities? And what do they use to license their outrage to commit such terrible crimes?
In answering such questions, a new honesty and self-criticism is striking. In the past few days, key Muslim community activists have admitted to me that what worries them is how certain theological issues have not been properly clarified, and can be used to justify extremism. The most important is the age-old distinction between dar al-Islam (the land of Islam) and dar al-harb (the land of the other, of unbelief - or of war, according to the literal translation from the Arabic). This demonisation of all that is not Muslim is the "paradigmatic, instinctive response that people fall back on in a moment of crisis", I was told. Extremists such as Hizb ut-Tahrir use this dualism, as do jihadis, to justify their contempt for the rights - and lives - of the kufr, the unbeliever.
Various Islamic theologians have tried to challenge this intolerance. Dr Zaki Badawi said it was unacceptable to designate the UK as dar al-harb, and declared a third category, the land of contract - dar al-sulh - where Muslims have entered a contract to obey the law in exchange for protection and freedom. Significantly, this was an idea promoted by the controversial Egyptian theologian Yusuf al-Qaradawi, that hate figure of the neocons, over 20 years ago.
There are other equally fraught issues, such as the legacy of anti-colonial thinkers like Sayyid Qutb and Maulana Mawdudi, whose inflammatory, anti-western rhetoric, taken out of context, can sound much like a charter for jihad. Their books are still sold by mainstream Muslim organisations: why, asks Yahya Birt, a prominent member of this new reforming generation, in a recent posting on his blog. Is it tribal loyalty or what, he asks.
What's remarkable is that these subjects are being aired in public and even discussed with non-Muslims; for years, the charge of washing dirty linen in public ensured silence. But Britain is now the arena for one of the most public, impassioned and wide-ranging debates about Islam anywhere in the world.
This debate won't kill off extremism, but it's one of several crucial elements required in a patient, painstaking strategy to win the hearts and minds of young Muslims. The new security minister. Admiral Sir Alan West. acknowledged as much yesterday when he spoke of a 10- to 15-year strategy to tackle extremism. Gordon Brown was back on the hearts-and-minds theme last week - it's been one of the most familiar refrains of the government since 7/7. But what he proposed - a "propaganda effort" - shows how unfamiliar he is with this brief: how could he imagine propaganda will have any effect on media-literate youngsters deeply sceptical after Iraq of anything associated with this Labour government?
The truth is that the government's hearts-and-minds strategy has been a fiction of speech writers. It has foundered in the break-up of the Home Office, been split across departments and got lost in the Department of Communities and Local Government's cohesion agenda. A recent meeting at the Home Office on how to combat extremism attracted few Muslims but several journalists - including those who have lobbied hard that the government should withdraw from any engagement with organisations with historical links to Islamism, the broad 20th-century movement of political Islam. Their lobbying succeeded in freezing out a wide range of organisations, including the Muslim Council of Britain. It has been self-defeating; it left Ruth Kelly, then at the DCLG, with a bunch of tiny, well-meaning organisations as her appointed "strategic partners", who had very little reach into the community.
Hazel Blears must be cannier than that. What matters is what works - who has the power in a community to inch through change, most importantly in that closed world of Britain's 1,600-odd mosques that are fiercely independent, and have ethnic and sectarian allegiances. This is the most difficult front, and the most important. It is estimated that 90% of Britain's male Muslims attend Friday prayers, making it the best place to connect to the core constituency.
The Metropolitan police's Muslim Contact Unit has understood this, following a strategy of working with Islamist- and Salafi-dominated mosques such as the one in Brixton, well aware that their best chance of drawing extremists away from violence is through those who know how to argue the case on Islamic grounds and redirect the religious fervour of hot-headed young men. Winning hearts and minds will take a generation; but what's becoming clear is just how many Muslims are engaged in this struggle already.
m.bunting@guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...2121728,00.html |
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| Stonewall |
Ass Boil,
Your article is actually pretty good. It shows the problem. And, in the end it says this: 'argue the case on Islamic grounds'.
That is the problem. They will lose that battle because they must pervert the Islamic teaching to make it peaceful. All those against them, all they have to do is teach the Islamic teachings. A fair reading of the text and history.
Here are a couple articles on the mosques in the U.K..
Majority UK mosques run by hard liners
and...
Hardline takeover of British mosques |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Ass Boil,
Your article is actually pretty good. It shows the problem. And, in the end it says this: 'argue the case on Islamic grounds'.
That is the problem. They will lose that battle because they must pervert the Islamic teaching to make it peaceful. All those against them, all they have to do is teach the Islamic teachings. A fair reading of the text and history.
Here are a couple articles on the mosques in the U.K..
Majority UK mosques run by hard liners
and...
Hardline takeover of British mosques |
I had already read those articles. I am not suprised to find they sent you running under your bed again.
And now we are back to your same old tired line that "Islam" is violent and the perversion is making it peaceful.... nevermind the overwhelming majority of muslims "perverting" their religion by not engaging in violence, and the entire COUNTRIES full of bad muslims varying from the violence you claim their religion requires of them.....
You really are pathetic. Your total pussification is nearly complete.
News
Borough mosques ‘are not a hotbed for extremists’
22 September 2007
email to a friend | your comments
Published: 12th September 2007
MUSLIM leaders have vehemently refuted reports that half of the UK’s mosques – including many in Oldham – are controlled by a radical brand of Islam with a hatred of western values.
An investigation by a national newspaper claimed almost half of Britain’s 1,350 mosques, including 59 out of 75, across Oldham, Blackburn, Burnley, Preston and Bolton, promote teachings of the Deobandi movement.
The report claimed Deobandi is an ultra-conservative movement and one of its influential preachers, Riyadh ul Haq, had supported armed jihad and preached contempt for Jews, Christians and Hindus.
Advertisement
The article stopped short of suggesting all Muslims who worship at Deobandi mosques subscribe to the extreme message but claimed that talks and sermons at an influential Deobandi seminary near Bury, where Mr Ul Haq trained, exposed muslims to a hatred of Western society and radical views including isolationism.
Of Oldham’s 24 mosques, 12 subscribe to the Deobandi teaching which is characterised by a strict adherence to the Sunnah and Sharia law.
But Fazal Rahim, project officer for Oldham Inter-faith Forum, said the story was a long way from his experience of mosques in Oldham.
"The story doesn't have any credibility," he said. "There is no umbrella organisation for mosques. I wish there was, it would make my job easier.
"Ninety per cent of mosques are independent entities ran by the local Muslim community.
"The reporter talks about hardliners controlling mosques, but that doesn’t make sense.
"My experience of Oldham is that Deobandi mosques are forthcoming to the Inter-faith Forum, get involved with other religions and will welcome visitors. These may be the individual views of the Mr Ul Haq, I have never met him, but this is all very unhelpful to the work we do improving cohesion in Oldham.
"It doesn’t reflect the reality of the world I work within."
Abdul Qureshi, chairman of the Lancashire Council of Mosques, challenged the newspapers claim that the Deobandi ideology had wrestled control from followers of the more moderate Barelwi movement.
"The Deobandi school were established in the first place; they are not taking over British mosques," he said.
"I have done a lot of work with the Deobandi school and if it was not for their support we would not have built the bridges within our communities.
"It suggested adheering to faith people are categorised as extremists. That is dangerously pigeonholing Muslims.
"It also undermines how much Islam has travelled and does not recognise the obvious progression that it has made."
Stuart Greer
http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/n...br />
ists.html |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
I had already read those articles. I am not suprised to find they sent you running under your bed again.
And now we are back to your same old tired line that "Islam" is violent and the perversion is making it peaceful.... nevermind the overwhelming majority of muslims "perverting" their religion by not engaging in violence, and the entire COUNTRIES full of bad muslims varying from the violence you claim their religion requires of them.....
You really are pathetic. Your total pussification is nearly complete.
News
Borough mosques ‘are not a hotbed for extremists’
22 September 2007
email to a friend | your comments
Published: 12th September 2007
MUSLIM leaders have vehemently refuted reports that half of the UK’s mosques – including many in Oldham – are controlled by a radical brand of Islam with a hatred of western values.
An investigation by a national newspaper claimed almost half of Britain’s 1,350 mosques, including 59 out of 75, across Oldham, Blackburn, Burnley, Preston and Bolton, promote teachings of the Deobandi movement.
The report claimed Deobandi is an ultra-conservative movement and one of its influential preachers, Riyadh ul Haq, had supported armed jihad and preached contempt for Jews, Christians and Hindus.
Advertisement
The article stopped short of suggesting all Muslims who worship at Deobandi mosques subscribe to the extreme message but claimed that talks and sermons at an influential Deobandi seminary near Bury, where Mr Ul Haq trained, exposed muslims to a hatred of Western society and radical views including isolationism.
Of Oldham’s 24 mosques, 12 subscribe to the Deobandi teaching which is characterised by a strict adherence to the Sunnah and Sharia law.
But Fazal Rahim, project officer for Oldham Inter-faith Forum, said the story was a long way from his experience of mosques in Oldham.
"The story doesn't have any credibility," he said. "There is no umbrella organisation for mosques. I wish there was, it would make my job easier.
"Ninety per cent of mosques are independent entities ran by the local Muslim community.
"The reporter talks about hardliners controlling mosques, but that doesn’t make sense.
"My experience of Oldham is that Deobandi mosques are forthcoming to the Inter-faith Forum, get involved with other religions and will welcome visitors. These may be the individual views of the Mr Ul Haq, I have never met him, but this is all very unhelpful to the work we do improving cohesion in Oldham.
"It doesn’t reflect the reality of the world I work within."
Abdul Qureshi, chairman of the Lancashire Council of Mosques, challenged the newspapers claim that the Deobandi ideology had wrestled control from followers of the more moderate Barelwi movement.
"The Deobandi school were established in the first place; they are not taking over British mosques," he said.
"I have done a lot of work with the Deobandi school and if it was not for their support we would not have built the bridges within our communities.
"It suggested adheering to faith people are categorised as extremists. That is dangerously pigeonholing Muslims.
"It also undermines how much Islam has travelled and does not recognise the obvious progression that it has made."
Stuart Greer
http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/n...br />
ists.html |
So, your article says this...
"The Deobandi school were established in the first place; they are not taking over British mosques," he said.
Yeah see it's not being radicalized, it always was. HAHAHAHHAHAA.
I'm glad your article was posted, it's great stuff. Really is...
:) |
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| Ass Boil |
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
So, your article says this...
"The Deobandi school were established in the first place; they are not taking over British mosques," he said.
Yeah see it's not being radicalized, it always was. HAHAHAHHAHAA.
I'm glad your article was posted, it's great stuff. Really is...
:) |
Yeah, ALMOST as good as your original article in this thread in which the subject of your latest pussification was ostracized by the muslim community as a whole....LOL
And by assuming that every person attending a Deobandi mosque is an extremist you only prove my point that you are a Islamaphobic pussy... thanks :hw: |
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| Stonewall |
Quote: Originally posted by Ass Boil
Yeah, ALMOST as good as your original article in this thread in which the subject of your latest pussification was ostracized by the muslim community as a whole....LOL
And by assuming that every person attending a Deobandi mosque is an extremist you only prove my point that you are a Islamaphobic pussy... thanks :hw: |
The original article does not say he 'was ostracized by the muslim community as a whole'.
Here is another article on "Deobandi".
Our followers ‘must live in peace until strong enough to wage jihad’
Andrew Norfolk
One of the world’s most respected Deobandi scholars believes that aggressive military jihad should be waged by Muslims “to establish the supremacy of Islam” worldwide.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani argues that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
His views explode the myth that the creed of offensive, expansionist jihad represents a distortion of traditional Islamic thinking.
Mr Usmani, 64, sat for 20 years as a Sharia judge in Pakistan’s Supreme Court. He is an adviser to several global financial institutions and a regular visitor to Britain. Polite and softly spoken, he revealed to The Times a detailed knowledge of world events and his words, for the most part, were balanced and considered.
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire nonMuslim world was intent on destroying Islam. Yet this is a man who, in his published work, argues the case for Muslims to wage an expansionist war against nonMuslim lands.
Mr Usmani’s justification for aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy is revealed at the climax of his book, Islam and Modernism. The work is a polemic against Islamic modernists who seek to convert the entire Koran into “a poetic and metaphorical book” because, he says, they have been bewitched by Western culture and ideology.
The final chapter delivers a rebuke to those who believe that only defensive jihad (fighting to defend a Muslim land that is under attack or occupation) is permissible in Islam. He refutes the suggestion that jihad is unlawful against a nonMuslim state that freely permits the preaching of Islam.
For Mr Usmani, “the question is whether aggressive battle is by itself commendable or not”. “If it is, why should the Muslims stop simply because territorial expansion in these days is regarded as bad? And if it is not commendable, but deplorable, why did Islam not stop it in the past?”
He answers his own question thus: “Even in those days . . . aggressive jihads were waged . . . because it was truly commendable for establishing the grandeur of the religion of Allah.”
These words are not the product of a radical extremist. They come from the pen of one of the most acclaimed scholars in the Deobandi tradition.
Mr Usmani told The Times that Islam and Modernism was an English translation of his original Urdu book, “which at times gives a connotation different from the original”.
Link
:)
If I upset anyone by using the word radical, I do apologize. I don't think Deobandi are radical. They just follow Islam. Wherever that nightmare may lead. Here is a quote from the article...
These words are not the product of a radical extremist. They come from the pen of one of the most acclaimed scholars in the Deobandi tradition. |
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