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Do you like money?
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| Do you like money?
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| hooknoseitalian |
And are you satisfied with our current fiat system? Do you believe it is sustainable in the long run? Do you believe it will eventually collapse or will it always be a slow, almost unnoticeable disintegration of value?
Is the purchasing power of your dollar important to you? If so, what are you going to do about it? (invest in gold/silver bullion?)
Thanks, I'll hang up and listen. |
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| rod_jammer |
| If you don't like your money, you can always give it to me. |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
| You can still get a double-cheeseburger with a dollar. All is not lost. |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark
You can still get a double-cheeseburger with a dollar. All is not lost. |
in ten years when the dollar menu is the five dollar menu... what then? keep on truckin'? |
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| Bronks Breasts |
| Drink more sodas and beer and then recycle them that is the best return you can expect on your money anymore unless of course you invest in energy and pharmacutical companies. |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by rod_jammer
If you don't like your money, you can always give it to me. |
i love my money, that's why i'm concerned. there is only one candidate in this race for nomination that is talking about this stuff. I'm really surprised nobody seems to be concerned about this. |
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| mingmen |
| oh, fuck - ron paul |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by Bronks Breasts
Drink more sodas and beer and then recycle them that is the best return you can expect on your money anymore unless of course you invest in energy and pharmacutical companies. |
i've almost tripled the purchasing power of the small amount of money i put into silver bullion over the last couple years. |
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| mingmen |
| it was fun while it lasted :gwave: |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by mingmen
oh, fuck - ron paul |
why oh fuck? is he a bad man? crazy? stupid? dishonest? why do people dislike him so much? are you even listening to him? |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
in ten years when the dollar menu is the five dollar menu... what then? keep on truckin'? |
:idea:
Buy 30,000 double-cheeseburgers now and have them stored in Liquid Nitrogen.
:bigup: |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by mingmen
it was fun while it lasted :gwave: |
well you seem to be concerned about money, but not concerned enough to consider ron paul? "we are fucked" you said. you can live with that? |
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| mingmen |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
why oh fuck? is he a bad man? crazy? stupid? dishonest? why do people dislike him so much? are you even listening to him? |
I don't vote for conservatives |
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| mingmen |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
well you seem to be concerned about money, but not concerned enough to consider ron paul? "we are fucked" you said. you can live with that? |
It is not up to me |
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| hooknoseitalian |
i don't mean for this to be a ron paul thread. i just don't understand why people dismiss everything he says.
For real though, how many people know what fiat currency even means? I had no idea up until a couple years ago, and i suspect the majority of the population is as clueless as myself. |
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| mingmen |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
i don't mean for this to be a ron paul thread. |
:bs:
but that is fine - he is just not on my list of options |
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| hooknoseitalian |
wow i'm surprised nobody has anything to say on this subject other than "we are fucked".
i guess that says it all though. :( |
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| gazill |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
And are you satisfied with our current fiat system? Do you believe it is sustainable in the long run? Do you believe it will eventually collapse or will it always be a slow, almost unnoticeable disintegration of value?
Is the purchasing power of your dollar important to you? If so, what are you going to do about it? (invest in gold/silver bullion?)
Thanks, I'll hang up and listen. |
Very interesting topic, one I had not really given much thought to. Read these answers with the understanding that I am as far from an economist as one could be, as demonstrated by my limited answers.
answers to your questions:
Yes, I like money and, for the most part, our system. How long of a run? During my life, I believe it is, unless we continue to grow government under both parties. I think it will fluctuate, but I do see a noticeable disintegration of value as other countries build up their financial strength.
Of course the power of the dollar is important. I have invested in gold and other precious metals, indirectly through funds, and will continue to invest. I do believe the dollar will rebound. |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by mingmen
It is not up to me |
i hate to sound so pathetically cliche but really it's up to all of us. you say you don't vote conservative, and i would never say that i'm conservative at all, but i AM about individual privacy, security, and freedom; it's all about just being an individual and living a good life. that's why this particular conservative candidate is the right choice for me. i'm not familiar with a mindset that allows someone to blindly go in a direction because you see everyone else going there... whether you always vote conservative, democratic, based on faith, whatever. that also includes people that say "i'm not voting for him, he's got no chance to win". you might as well tell people "i'm going to do what everyone else does and not question it." that's fucking pathetic.
i'm not calling you pathetic, mingmen. i'm just saying, you know, in general, americans are fucking pathetic. :btd: |
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| mingmen |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
i hate to sound so pathetically cliche but really it's up to all of us. you say you don't vote conservative, and i would never say that i'm conservative at all, but i AM about individual privacy, security, and freedom; it's all about just being an individual and living a good life. that's why this particular conservative candidate is the right choice for me. i'm not familiar with a mindset that allows someone to blindly go in a direction because you see everyone else going there... whether you always vote conservative, democratic, based on faith, whatever. that also includes people that say "i'm not voting for him, he's got no chance to win". you might as well tell people "i'm going to do what everyone else does and not question it." that's fucking pathetic. |
I don't vote blindly - but I have an understanding of political philosophy.
Will you be considering child rapists among your candidates because you are so open-minded? :p |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by gazill
Very interesting topic, one I had not really given much thought to. Read these answers with the understanding that I am as far from an economist as one could be, as demonstrated by my limited answers.
answers to your questions:
Yes, I like money and, for the most part, our system. How long of a run? During my life, I believe it is, unless we continue to grow government under both parties. I think it will fluctuate, but I do see a noticeable disintegration of value as other countries build up their financial strength.
Of course the power of the dollar is important. I have invested in gold and other precious metals, indirectly through funds, and will continue to invest. I do believe the dollar will rebound. |
awesome. thanks for playing.
I'm no economist either, but I do read a little bit on this subject. Obviously nobody can say what will happen in the future, but what's sure, is that the value of the USD will only decrease. You can't continually print new money for nothing and throw it in the mix, and continue to borrow money and go further into debt, and expect your credit worthiness to stay the same or get better.
Without something like the gold standard, your money is only backed by the credit worthiness of the federal government. We will either see years and years of continual inflation and less bang for our buck, or one of these days we just may see a Greater Depression. Maybe the supposed plans for the Amero will improve things for a while... but it's still a fiat system and therefore it inevitably will fail.
I'm not sure that we're seeing other countries build up financial strength so much as we are seeing our own financial strength deteriorate. canadians jumped for joy recently because their money is worth more? no, ours is just worth less.
Personally I'm scared of puttin my money into funds or stocks, it's all part of the same system. I've bought physical bullion that I can sell or trade at any time for whatever the going price is. I don't believe the dollar will improve. It's not designed to. |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by mingmen
I don't vote blindly - but I have an understanding of political philosophy.
Will you be considering child rapists among your candidates because you are so open-minded? :p |
i don't have an understanding of political philosophy. it's all foreign to me. i don't know how people go from being someone that wants to get involved in their community, to spending every day worrying about how to get re-elected so they can keep their job of campaigning for another election. it's all about their name being out there and having that recognition that will keep them in office. they get corrupted with the power they're given, and take monies that they aren't entitled to, and cease to care about the community that gave them a job in the first place.
The law of averages tells me that not everyone in politics is corrupt, but if i didn't see evidence of that in ron paul i really wouldn't believe it. i know you were joking about the child rapist comment, but give me some credit, man. if ron paul were just another crazy old man trying to be a third wheel in an election, i wouldn't be here posting in the politics section. :p
this shit has been gettin me amped up lately.
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| mingmen |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
i don't have an understanding of political philosophy. it's all foreign to me. i don't know how people go from being someone that wants to get involved in their community, to spending every day worrying about how to get re-elected so they can keep their job of campaigning for another election. it's all about their name being out there and having that recognition that will keep them in office. they get corrupted with the power they're given, and take monies that they aren't entitled to, and cease to care about the community that gave them a job in the first place.
The law of averages tells me that not everyone in politics is corrupt, but if i didn't see evidence of that in ron paul i really wouldn't believe it. i know you were joking about the child rapist comment, but give me some credit, man. if ron paul were just another crazy old man trying to be a third wheel in an election, i wouldn't be here posting in the politics section. :p |
well, then vote for your conservative :yes: |
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| modeams |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
in ten years when the dollar menu is the five dollar menu... what then? keep on truckin'? |
nah, the dollar menu is going to kill us all before it reaches 5.
corn syrup in fucking everything. Ah the power of Corn Refiners Association :rolleyes: |
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| modeams |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
how many people know what fiat currency even means? |
its all in china's hands now :(
everyone please continue to shop at walmart and believe that it is not having an impact. :hw: |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by modeams
nah, the dollar menu is going to kill us all before it reaches 5.
corn syrup in fucking everything. Ah the power of Corn Refiners Association :rolleyes: |
maybe the pharmaceutical gods will bestow upon us a convenient but expensive method of prolonging our lives! :idea: |
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| modeams |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
maybe the pharmaceutical gods will bestow upon us a convenient but expensive method of prolonging our lives! :idea: |
xactly! Most of my parents friends are on cholesterol lowering drugs. They work so well they have levels resembling those of a vegetarian Lance Armstrong. Still fat , eating shit and no exercise, but popping the scripts like pez. :cheer: |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by modeams
its all in china's hands now :(
everyone please continue to shop at walmart and believe that it is not having an impact. :hw: |
you just blew my mind up |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by modeams
xactly! Most of my parents friends are on cholesterol lowering drugs. They work so well they have levels resembling those of a vegetarian Lance Armstrong. Still fat , eating shit and no exercise, but popping the scripts like pez. :cheer: |
that reminds me of a woman i used to work with, fat and in her 50's, legally handicapped simply because of her poor health and hardship in getting around, pharmaceuticals were a regular part of her shitty diet. i would be surprised if she was NOT dead by now. :( she was a good lady other than all that. |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by modeams
its all in china's hands now :(
everyone please continue to shop at walmart and believe that it is not having an impact. :hw: |
Its too late to do anything. The Walmartification of America of started with Reagan and every president after him has continued on that path. Why do you think all those Chinamen were running around the white-house when Bubba was there?
Walmart is essentially China's distribution system for getting goods made by near-slave labor standards onto store shelves in America. We designed and set-up that system.
Fuck Walmart. I do not spend a penny of my money in that shit-hole. |
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| hooknoseitalian |
It's not just Walmart. Target and all of those similar types of retailers are the exact same shit. You really can't go anywhere these days and NOT find products made in China.
I think a lot of it has to do with what it takes to create a business like that here in America. With all the bullshit here you have to go through to start up a company and hope to become profitable, it's not conducive to entrepreneurs who want to produce and sell their own products right here in america. I hear in Hong Kong you can set up shop and sell your shit within two weeks and with very minimal cost and paperwork submitted to the government. If you want to do that in America, I guess you could always call that 800# in those infomercials and start your own business for a few hundred bucks, selling useless items that were made in China.
So instead of your neighbor providing goods that you need at a fair price according to what your market will bear, we have big companies that make way too much profit from buying items so cheaply that they can sell them cheap and still make a killing because of the sheer volume of crap they put out there. With a smaller government that wasn't in our face all the time, I think this country would really boom.
There's always the internet, but it's not easy getting a high volume of the right traffic to your site when you're a small company that nobody's heard of. And now there's also the potential problem of ISPs limiting access to sites at peak volume times, because they want to "manage the network" but that means if you want to do heavy business on the internet it's going to really cost you, and there won't be any more Google success stories.
"The only companies that could afford to buy access to the fast lanes on the Internet...are companies that already have succeeded in the marketplace," Lessig said. "The next generation of Yahoos and Googles...would face barriers to entry."
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060220/wexler
All these huge problems that we've just grown accustomed to are really hindering the economy, and there's not two candidates in this race that are going to do a god damn thing about it except make it worse. There is ONE, though. If people would take off their lemming suits maybe they could hear the fucking message.
:cool: |
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| modeams |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
So instead of your neighbor providing goods that you need at a fair price according to what your market will bear, we have big companies that make way too much profit from buying items so cheaply that they can sell them cheap and still make a killing because of the sheer volume of crap they put out there. With a smaller government that wasn't in our face all the time, I think this country would really boom. |
Excellent analysis, but I don't see how smaller government is connected to Walmarts destructive price point and hiring tactics?
If anything federal legeslation should be enacted. I lived in a crappy off campus house for a year. One of the rooms was occupied by a couple, two Sams Clubs employees. You ever here about Walmart/Sams club making them clock out and then work overtime? Yup, happened to them...
aside from christmas they got three days of paid vacation a year.
I just love that Walmart has pamphlets and paperwork instructing their employees on how to apply for medicade. :rolleyes: And meanwhile we get all this crappy shit from China who now carries our debt. How is that a good thing? But China is so fucking huge, mismanaged and overpopulated we don't have anything to worry about for 50 years.
My grad school had visiting delegates from China staying on campus and they got the chance to tour the Boeing plant. The building itself is a mile long, and the chinese were snapping pictures and had their camcorders taping every square inch of the assembly system inside.
Lets continue to be naive and PC :hw:
Microsoft put them in a single room and had some dude lecture to them with a bronx accent for two hours. They didn't get to see shit :hhh: |
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| modeams |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark
Walmart is essentially China's distribution system for getting goods made by near-slave labor standards onto store shelves in America. We designed and set-up that system.
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I like this description :D |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by modeams
Excellent analysis, but I don't see how smaller government is connected to Walmarts destructive price point and hiring tactics?
If anything federal legeslation should be enacted. I lived in a crappy off campus house for a year. One of the rooms was occupied by a couple, two Sams Clubs employees. You ever here about Walmart/Sams club making them clock out and then work overtime? Yup, happened to them...
aside from christmas they got three days of paid vacation a year.
I just love that Walmart has pamphlets and paperwork instructing their employees on how to apply for medicade. :rolleyes: And meanwhile we get all this crappy shit from China who now carries our debt. How is that a good thing? But China is so fucking huge, mismanaged and overpopulated we don't have anything to worry about for 50 years.
My grad school had visiting delegates from China staying on campus and they got the chance to tour the Boeing plant. The building itself is a mile long, and the chinese were snapping pictures and had their camcorders taping every square inch of the assembly system inside.
Lets continue to be naive and PC :hw:
Microsoft put them in a single room and had some dude lecture to them with a bronx accent for two hours. They didn't get to see shit :hhh: |
it shouldn't be about feds regulating big business, it should be about local communities, cities and states, regulating competition in their area. When was the last time you met an employee of a mom-and-pop operation that was successful in their market, who was unhappy with their job/pay/time off? Typically I notice that those employees are well paid, well rewarded, work in a positive atmosphere, and have plenty of time off. If there was more competition for walmart, people would have more job opportunities if they didn't like the working conditions. That would also be incentive for Walmart to improve its working conditions, to keep from having an incredibly high turnover rate which they probably already have considering the amount of employees they need.
If you want to go to a major manufacturer's outlet store to save money, can you find one right around the corner? Or do you have to drive an hour out of your way to find them all? I don't know if it's because everything is spread out in TX or what, but those places aren't close by. If they were, they would be competition for the brand's own regular retail outlets and they would lose money. The manufacturers have to regulate the competition with their own outlet stores. Nobody will go to the mall and spend $100 on a pair of jeans when they can go around the corner and spend half of that on the same thing. This might be the type of thing that could prevent smaller companies from getting eaten up by the Walmarts of the market. Local governments could prevent a Walmart from setting up shop in a particular area if it's going to hurt the local businesses. They can put them somewhere out of the way, and if people wanted to save pennies so badly that they'll drive out of their way to do so, then so be it.
If our economy wasn't in the shape it was in, we wouldn't be so worried about saving those pennies, and we would support local shops with a smile.
I wish I had been born early enough to have lived a full life and die in the '70s. It seems that's about the time everything started going to shit. It's no coincidence that that's also the time the US came off of the gold standard, and our money became simply paper with insinuated value rather than a representation of real value, stored in a vault and redeemable at any time. |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by hooknoseitalian
I wish I had been born early enough to have lived a full life and die in the '70s. It seems that's about the time everything started going to shit. It's no coincidence that that's also the time the US came off of the gold standard, and our money became simply paper with insinuated value rather than a representation of real value, stored in a vault and redeemable at any time. |
Before the days of Walmart, before big-box stores and Ware-house stores, before out-sourcing and off-shoring and before the Unions were dismantled it was different in America.
An immigrant couple could come here and the husband could get a union job at a hot-dog plant and his wife could clean offices in Manhattan. They would pay cash for their house, for their car and send their child to college paying cash. The couple never had any such thing as a credit card and retired comfortably, with substantial savings, pension and benefits from a union job.
That couple never even finished high school and didn't speak English when they came to this country. It is a true story and one that was common as rain drops back when the middle-class was truly strong.
Now we don't have nearly as many union jobs and we have 20 million illegal aliens driving down wages for everyone. Now we have the government allowing companies to close down plants in the US and shift production overseas to take advantage of 50 cent an hour labor. We're told this is good for our economy. Now, we can get a nice towel at Walmart for 3 dollars. Now we have commercials that tell us we are an asshole if we dare pull out cash to pay for our purchase in a store and risk slowing down the line.
I don't think our best days as a country are behind us, I'm pretty damn sure our best days are behind us.
:ps: |
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| hooknoseitalian |
| this thread makes uncle sam cry |
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| HelanBack |
just to get started on this subject but not my final words since i might jump back in tomorrow.
anyway, money is both good and bad in my opinion.
famous sayings like:
money is the root of all evil
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money makes the world go round
both make sense because in personal or business quests for gaining monetary power and leverage a great deal of unscrupulous behavior goes on.
However, without money many things could not have been accomplished in our lives such as those that come from philanthropic gifting in medical and scientific areas to mention but a few.
the value of the dollar ~ is being diminished by several factors some of which are mentioned in here.
unfortunately we have criminal activity that is watering down our dollar by funneling fake currency into our mainstream via the online scams from other countries such as Nigeria. this is a real problem out there. Some of them are now filtering in from Canada.
just saying, we have a lot of things going on that effect our economic system and someone needs to come to bat or step up to the plate at least to make an effort to straighten things out. doesn't have to be the politicians. it can be just the way we choose to spend our money. |
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| hooknoseitalian |
Quote: Originally posted by HelanBack
just saying, we have a lot of things going on that effect our economic system and someone needs to come to bat or step up to the plate at least to make an effort to straighten things out. doesn't have to be the politicians. it can be just the way we choose to spend our money. |
there are private currencies that are backed by precious metals. the one i favor is backed by silver. problem is, using the currency is difficult when everyone is used to only dealing in USD. trading is done in pretty small circles. and i can't take my silver or the paper certs representing that silver and deposit it into an account at the bank. you may have heard of the liberty dollar but that's not the one i'm talking about, that currency is only partially backed and i don't like the way operate.
but the fact that these currencies even exist is evidence that when big government fails to provide what we want, private companies can and will pick up the slack. |
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| JTProcess |
Seeing the title of this thread keeps making me think of that guy from Idiocracy who keeps saying
"Ah like money"
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| hooknoseitalian |
| bump for Reverend Tyler :giggle: |
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