Looks like Obama has some explaining to do. He sends out a mailer that uses a quote from a student newspaper.
That health care mailer
The Clinton campaign convened a conference call with health policy experts to denounce Obama's new mailer, which attacks Clinton's plan for "forcing" Americans to sign up for insurance, and which features a couple at a kitchen table that recalls, for some, the famous insurance-industry-financed "Harry and Louise" ads against the original Clinton plan.
"I am personally outraged at the picture used in this mailing," said Len Nichols of the New America Foundation , a leading supporter of mandatory insurance, who called it a "Harry and Louise evocation."
"It is as outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Ill.," Nichols said. "I just find it disgusting that this kind of imagery is being used to attack the only way to get to universal coverage."
[UPDATE: At the end of the call, Clinton aide Howard Wolfson disavowed the Nazi reference, saying the campaign didn't think it was appropriate, though he acknowledged the passions the issue stirs.]
Clinton adviser Neera Tanden called the mailer "politically dangerous."
I didn't get my question about this in at Obama's presser this morning, but Lynn Sweet and I cornered David Axelrod in a Los Angeles hotel afterward and asked him about it.
He called the image "standard" and defended the argument against the plan. He also dismissed the suggestion that this mailing is similar to Clinton attacks that Obama has denounced.
"Ours is based in fact, and theirs is based in fabrication," he said.
He also defended citing a student newspaper, the Daily Iowan, in the piece.
"It's a respected newspaper," he said, noting that the objection has been voiced by "plenty of other sources."
Also, a prominant New York Times writer has blasted Obama -
Obama does Harry and Louise, again
The Obama campaign sends out an ugly mailer. Sorry, but this is just destructive — like the Obama plan, the Clinton plan offers subsidies to lower-income families. And BO himself has conceded that he might have to penalize people who don’t buy insurance until they need care. So this is just poisoning the well for health care reform. The politics of hope, indeed.
Update: Ezra Klein adds a screenshot of the original Harry and Louise ad — they’ve obviously deliberately copied it. Just to remind everyone, Harry and Louise were the center of the vile smear campaign the insurance lobby waged against health care reform in 1993 — and this time a Democratic candidate is doing the smearing for them.
Ezra also points us to an Urban Institute study that shows that yes, mandates are essential. The key passage:
Voluntary measures would tend to enroll disproportionate numbers of individuals with higher cost health problems, creating high premiums and instability in the insurance pools in which they are enrolled.
I know that Obama supporters want to hear no evil, but this is really, really bad.
Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler fake outrage :rolleyes:
Completely fake - and VTW is being disingenuous in his thread title by just throwing the word "Nazis" in it to stoke a fire that isn't there. :td:
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz Completely fake - and VTW is being disingenuous in his thread title by just throwing the word "Nazis" in it to stoke a fire that isn't there. :td:
I was reporting what the guy from the New America Foundation likened the ad to - that is not disingenuous, that is a fact. Whether or not people will agree with the analogy is a seperate issue.
Please stick to the facts. Thank you.
mb33139
[UPDATE: At the end of the call, Clinton aide Howard Wolfson disavowed the Nazi reference, saying the campaign didn't think it was appropriate, though he acknowledged the passions the issue stirs.]
What a crap thread... More hate mongering from the neocon'd.
Oz
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord I was reporting what the guy from the New America Foundation likened the ad to - that is not disingenuous, that is a fact. Whether or not people will agree with the analogy is a seperate issue.
Please stick to the facts. Thank you.
You are making it seem that someone of "value" is making that comparison. You are not being intellectually honest. You're sorta like the New York Post of this forum.
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler fake outrage :rolleyes:
With all due respect, Reverend, I think you are blinded by the Obama phenemenon.
Can you answer these two questions -
1. Don't you think it is rather ridiculous to use a quote from a student newspaper to make people think that Obama's plan is held in high regard? If Clinton had done that, you would be all over her.
2. Why is it that Obama takes issue with Clinton for potentially fining people for not carrying health insurance, while at the same time he is on record saying he may have to resort to fines for those who wait to sign up for health coverage until they need it? This is clear double-talk on the part of Obama.
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz You are making it seem that someone of "value" is making that comparison. You are not being intellectually honest. You're sorta like the New York Post of this forum.
Once again, whether or not you agree with the analogy is up to you. I merely pointed out the criticism.
You are dodging the valid criticisms that are made. Perhaps you would care to tackle those, or will you continue to deflect to this one comment?
Oz
so VTW - this guy http://www.newamerica.net/people/len_nichols says this about the Nazis - nobody that has anything to do with Clinton but rather an agenda toward mandatory insurance. And that is your "gotcha"? Lame -
who exactly do you support for the elections?
Oz
here vtw -
this is what everyone is crying about? I mean some douche at politico.com?! :lol:
this is totally fake outrage, you are looking for something to whine about and you're coming off more flamingly catty than harvey firestein
suddenly this ISN'T how people do their bills sitting at the table figuring them out? you dopey fuck :lol:
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz so VTW - this guy http://www.newamerica.net/people/len_nichols says this about the Nazis - nobody that has anything to do with Clinton but rather an agenda toward mandatory insurance. And that is your "gotcha"? Lame -
who exactly do you support for the elections?
From the page you cited:
Len Nichols, a highly respected healthcare economist, directs the Health Policy Program at the New America Foundation, which aims to expand health insurance coverage to all Americans while reining in costs and improving the efficiency of the overall health care system.
Where exactly does it say that this guy has an agenda "toward mandatory insurance?" Please point that out.
My "gotcha" is that Obama is being called out for being a hypocrite and pushing an argument that is bolstered by an editorial from a school newspaper. Once again - care to address these issues?
Do you believe that the best source of policy critique should come from school newspapers?
Also, do you dispute Obama's double-talk regarding fines?
Go.
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz here vtw -
this is what everyone is crying about? I mean some douche at politico.com?! :lol:
this is totally fake outrage, you are looking for something to whine about and you're coming off more flamingly catty than harvey firestein
suddenly this ISN'T how people do their bills sitting at the table figuring them out? you dopey fuck :lol:
Once again, ducking the issue.
Try clicking on the link to the actual mailer, then get back to me.
And it isn't just some "douche at politico.com," it's also a Liberal stalwart at the New York Times.
Oz
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord From the page you cited:
Len Nichols, a highly respected healthcare economist, directs the Health Policy Program at the New America Foundation, which aims to expand health insurance coverage to all Americans while reining in costs and improving the efficiency of the overall health care system.
Where exactly does it say that this guy has an agenda "toward mandatory insurance?" Please point that out.
My "gotcha" is that Obama is being called out for being a hypocrite and pushing an argument that is bolstered by an editorial from a school newspaper. Once again - care to address these issues?
Do you believe that the best source of policy critique should come from school newspapers?
Also, do you dispute Obama's double-talk regarding fines?
Go.
do some research dipshit - your hair is on fire -
free press can come from anywhere, even a school newspaper - the point being is that this is a non-story trumped up by the Clinton's which you and zimmie seem to think secretly control the world and everything else - but not this thinly veiled story - ya right - dummy
so here, I'll try and save your shitty thread for you so you don't look so goofy - who is your candidate between Romney and McCain?
Oz
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord Once again, ducking the issue.
Try clicking on the link to the actual mailer, then get back to me.
And it isn't just some "douche at politico.com," it's also a Liberal stalwart at the New York Times.
:yawn: non-story - your hair is on fire - Hilary planted the story obviously you dipshit - and you're reacting as if it is real news - keep back-pedaling - if Hilary puts a story out there that Obama kicks puppies and Obama denies it what would your take on it be? That the Clintons are slippery and evil or that Obama is a flip-flopper on the puppy kicking issue?
dipshit.
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz do some research dipshit - your hair is on fire -
free press can come from anywhere, even a school newspaper - the point being is that this is a non-story trumped up by the Clinton's which you and zimmie seem to think secretly control the world and everything else - but not this thinly veiled story - ya right - dummy
:lol:
So you consider a source for sound policy analysis to be a student newspaper?
What was the poll of the day in this newspaper - what flavor of jello is preferred in the cafeteria??
:lol:
Quote: Originally posted by Oz
so here, I'll try and save your shitty thread for you so you don't look so goofy - who is your candidate between Romney and McCain?
Aah, the classic deflection. You cannot answer the questions I posed, so you pivot to a different topic.
Anyway, I'll answer your deflection - at the moment, I am undecided. Still have a few days before I vote on February 5th.
But I can tell you this - I won't be voting for Ron Paul.
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz :yawn: non-story - your hair is on fire - Hilary planted the story obviously you dipshit - and you're reacting as if it is real news - keep back-pedaling - if Hilary puts a story out there that Obama kicks puppies and Obama denies it what would your take on it be? That the Clintons are slippery and evil or that Obama is a flip-flopper on the puppy kicking issue?
dipshit.
She didn't "plant the story." This was based on a conference call. Nice try.
Can you answer the question posed, moron?
Why would Obama take exception to Clinton for proposing fines when he is on record for admitting he might have to do the exact same thing?
You think that is a "non-story?"
Reverend Tyler
that liberal stalwart is Krugman who has has been biased against Obama, specifically on the mandate issue of his health care plan, for months
and while, yeah, certainly a better source could be used, it is a University newspaper, not high school as you seem to imply
Oz
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord :lol:
So you consider a source for sound policy analysis to be a student newspaper?
What was the poll of the day in this newspaper - what flavor of jello is preferred in the cafeteria??
:lol:
Aah, the classic deflection. You cannot answer the questions I posed, so you pivot to a different topic.
Anyway, I'll answer your deflection - at the moment, I am undecided. Still have a few days before I vote on February 5th.
But I can tell you this - I won't be voting for Ron Paul.
Hey vtw - where did len say "Nazis Marching"?
No deflecting at all - you failed at this topic as you do most things in this forum so I'm giving you a hand. We can continue to talk about your non-story but it will only continue to reveal your levels of stupidity and unbridled Obama/Clinton derangement syndrome that you clearly suffer from.
Who is your candidate? Why are you afraid to say? Is it Romney the totally ineffective Republican that had his daddy pay his way in business - which means he understands jack shit about running a business or John "gooks" McCain?
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz Hey vtw - where did len say "Nazis Marching"?
"It is as outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Ill.," Nichols said.
Game.
Quote: Originally posted by Oz
No deflecting at all - you failed at this topic as you do most things in this forum so I'm giving you a hand. We can continue to talk about your non-story but it will only continue to reveal your levels of stupidity and unbridled Obama/Clinton derangement syndrome that you clearly suffer from.
Once again you have not addressed Obama's inconsistancies. Keep running.
Set.
Quote: Originally posted by Oz
Who is your candidate? Why are you afraid to say? Is it Romney the totally ineffective Republican that had his daddy pay his way in business - which means he understands jack shit about running a business or John "gooks" McCain?
As I said, I am undecided - both candidates bring different strengths to the table. Afraid to say? I made it quite clear over the past few months that I supported Rudy Giuliani. Unfortunately, his "wait until Florida" strategy was horrible.
Match.
Oz
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord "It is as outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Ill.," Nichols said.
Game.
that is weak - this isn't even close to the same thing - thank you for pointing it - I lived in Skokie for years and his analogy is not only far-fetched it is insulting to the Jews in Skokie - Len needs some help
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord [I]
Once again you have not addressed Obama's inconsistancies. Keep running.
Set.
how exactly are you obfuscating this whole thing now? what do you want?
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord [I]
As I said, I am undecided - both candidates bring different strengths to the table. Afraid to say? I made it quite clear over the past few months that I supported Rudy Giuliani. Unfortunately, his "wait until Florida" strategy was horrible.
Match.
You're a Romney guy - that's what Hannity, Coulter, and Limbaugh said today to do so I don't see any reason for you to break ranks with them :tu:
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz that is weak - this isn't even close to the same thing - thank you for pointing it - I lived in Skokie for years and his analogy is not only far-fetched it is insulting to the Jews in Skokie - Len needs some help
how exactly are you obfuscating this whole thing now? what do you want?
You're a Romney guy - that's what Hannity, Coulter, and Limbaugh said today to do so I don't see any reason for you to break ranks with them :tu:
So you listen to Limbaugh and Hannity and Coulter. Interesting.
Funny how I asked you to address Obama's inconsistancies repeatedly, and you are reduced to - "what do you want?" Pathetic.
As for the analogy this guy made, I never said I agreed. I was merely pointing out the sharp criticism that Obama finds being directed at him.
Well, he can hope that he will get another endorsement from a student newspaper.
zimmie
Quote: Originally posted by Oz do some research dipshit - your hair is on fire -
free press can come from anywhere, even a school newspaper - the point being is that this is a non-story trumped up by the Clinton's which you and zimmie seem to think secretly control the world and everything else - but not this thinly veiled story - ya right - dummy
so here, I'll try and save your shitty thread for you so you don't look so goofy - who is your candidate between Romney and McCain?
The Wizwart of Oz
Oz
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord So you listen to Limbaugh and Hannity and Coulter. Interesting.
I catch enough - we know you do - you've admitted to it. We know Zimmie latches onto Limbaugh like crazy - when he first started posting here he was only posting direct quotes from Limbaugh's board or images linking back to Limbaugh's site and board. Take pride in your sources guys.
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
Funny how I asked you to address Obama's inconsistancies repeatedly, and you are reduced to - "what do you want?" Pathetic.
you're the one saying Obama is inconsistent - it is your job to prove your statement - not to make me defend your ridiculousness
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
As for the analogy this guy made, I never said I agreed. I was merely pointing out the sharp criticism that Obama finds being directed at him.
then why defend it - it is a non-story
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
Well, he can hope that he will get another endorsement from a student newspaper.
non-issue
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie
The Wizwart of Oz
hey look who it is - you tired of Robinsmuff and I educating you on what a dumbfuck you are? You're more than welcome to go back to the thread unless of course we should take your silence as acceptance of your stupidity
zimmie
no thanks Stupid, your too stupid to educate or learn much of anything but swallowing cock....
Oz
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie no thanks Stupid, your too stupid to educate or learn much of anything but swallowing cock....
"you're" -
what in the fuck community college are you failing out of?!
Fdubya247
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheTurd "It is as outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Ill.," Nichols said.
Game.
:lol:
So in other words there was absolutely no comparison between the "mailer" and "Nazis" made whatsoever.
Astonishing. Another LIE.
:rolleyes:
Of course your tiny cockroach pea-brain is too stunted to realize that the comparison being made was to the level of "outrageousness" of the two subjects.
*FLUSH*
:crapper:
Reverend Tyler
yeah...well to compare the "outrageousness" of a mailer to the same "outrageousness" of nazis marching through Skokie, IL is still extreme hyperbole
Not quite as bad as the head of Now saying Obama and Edwards "gang-raped" Clinton, but it is comparable
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie
The Wizwart of Oz
:jj:
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler yeah...well to compare the "outrageousness" of a mailer to the same "outrageousness" of nazis marching through Skokie, IL is still extreme hyperbole
Not quite as bad as the head of Now saying Obama and Edwards "gang-raped" Clinton, but it is comparable
Hey Reverend, perhaps you'll agree on this point -
Obama's contradictions aside, wouldn't you say he is right in that a mandated health care plan is DOA upon arrival in Congress?
What he is implying, as I see it, is that Clinton is repeating the same mistake she made in 1993. The Republicans will not sign onto a mandated plan. She can run around and promise "universal health care," but what she doesn't realize is that there are too many people in this country who don't want the government to say "You must buy health care for yourself or you will either pay a fine or go to jail."
Oz
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord :jj:
that was seriously funny to you? :rolleyes: I'm willing to be you really enjoyed Meet the Spartans
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord Hey Reverend, perhaps you'll agree on this point -
Obama's contradictions aside, wouldn't you say he is right in that a mandated health care plan is DOA upon arrival in Congress?
What he is implying, as I see it, is that Clinton is repeating the same mistake she made in 1993. The Republicans will not sign onto a mandated plan. She can run around and promise "universal health care," but what she doesn't realize is that there are too many people in this country who don't want the government to say "You must buy health care for yourself or you will either pay a fine or go to jail."
what does this have to do with this thread - read your assertion at the beginning - why are you trying to change topics? why? why? why? :rolleyes:
oh, it's because you likely now realize what a lame non-story this thread is
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz
what does this have to do with this thread - read your assertion at the beginning - why are you trying to change topics? why? why? why? :rolleyes:
oh, it's because you likely now realize what a lame non-story this thread is
Nope, my original question is still out there, as I noted.
Care to answer it?
Oh, and why are you so defensive about Obama? Do you want this neophyte to be our next President?
Oz
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord Nope, my original question is still out there, as I noted.
Care to answer it?
Oh, and why are you so defensive about Obama? Do you want this neophyte to be our next President?
:lol: what was your original question again? this time frame it in the form of a question please.... I have no problem with Obama - I'm just loving watching your party crumble and implode over picking a candidate - house of cards.....
zimmie
Quote: Originally posted by Oz "you're" -
what in the fuck community college are you failing out of?!
why would i bother to use proper English on someone who gets his news from a student newspaper
PS...frankfurter on bun Monday, with tater tots!!!
that might be right up your alley SCOOTER!
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz :lol: what was your original question again? this time frame it in the form of a question please.... I have no problem with Obama - I'm just loving watching your party crumble and implode over picking a candidate - house of cards.....
Go back and read it - I asked it repeatedly.
But thank you. Thank you for finally coming out of the closet and admitting that you are a Liberal.
All this time it's been Ron Paul this and Ron Paul that with you - Ron Paul is a Repubican and, when asked if he would run as a third party candidate he has said that no because he is a member of the Republican party. Yes, the Republican party is my party. Again, thank you for finally admitting that.
So you asked me about my voting preferences - what say you? Are you voting for Obama or Clinton?
Oz
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie why would i bother to use proper English on someone who gets his news from a student newspaper
PS...frankfurter on bun Monday, with tater tots!!!
that might be right up your alley SCOOTER!
this is your fetish? fat kids eating? why else would you have such imagery so readily available - must have been some targeted google search to bring up imagery that you get off on ya sick fuck - PS: take an English class, don't just come here and make excuses for why you're so dopey - do something about it
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord Go back and read it - I asked it repeatedly.
But thank you. Thank you for finally coming out of the closet and admitting that you are a Liberal.
All this time it's been Ron Paul this and Ron Paul that with you - Ron Paul is a Repubican and, when asked if he would run as a third party candidate he has said that no because he is a member of the Republican party. Yes, the Republican party is my party. Again, thank you for finally admitting that.
So you asked me about my voting preferences - what say you? Are you voting for Obama or Clinton?
eh, bullshit - why does anyone go rounds with you? you are completely oblivious to reason and the ability to discuss -
You are such a retard. I always vote third party you dumbfuck. I said I have "no problem with Obama" and that "exposes" everything? Seriously, get your head examined. btw - nobody and I mean nobody says "what say you" or "go" unless you're a complete tool
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz
eh, bullshit - why does anyone go rounds with you? you are completely oblivious to reason and the ability to discuss -
You are such a retard. I always vote third party you dumbfuck. I said I have "no problem with Obama" and that "exposes" everything? Seriously, get your head examined. btw - nobody and I mean nobody says "what say you" or "go" unless you're a complete tool
Whatever.
Oz
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord Whatever.
You finally admit defeat. Thank you.
Oz
Hey Everyone - bump for those of you still voting. Check out this non-story :hw:
Oz
If fuckin blows to see this non-story crippling Obama :(
modeams
Quote: Originally posted by Oz If fuckin blows to see this non-story crippling Obama :(
:jj:
Fdubya247
Another "vacated thread"....
Stupid Cunt.
Oz
More VTW - Obama Derangement Syndrome
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Oz More VTW - Obama Derangement Syndrome
Another timely bump from Oz for those who will be attending primaries/caucuses tomorrow.
Keep in mind, folks, that Obama cites approval for his health care proposal from a school newspaper - let's vote with our heads, not our hearts.
Obama is running for the Presidency of the United States, not student council president. Using quotes from a school paper is absurd.
Oz
VTW - the fringe moonbat looming outside the Republican reality, with no candidate now :(
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