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How Many Israelis Have Been Killed By Rockets? - Click HERE to go to the original thread with graphics
Luther
13 Israelis have been killed by rockets in the past seven years.


Cut 'Sovereign' Israel Loose

by Charley Reese

March 8, 2008


Sometimes President Bush sounds like an idiot. The most recent example is his statement that he still believes the Palestinians and Israelis can reach a peace agreement before the end of his term.

This comes on the heels of an Israeli attack against Gaza that killed more than 100 people, most of them innocent civilians. It was a reprisal attack for a few rockets fired into Israel by some Hamas hotheads. In World War II, when the Germans killed civilians as a reprisal for an attack on their forces, it was called a war crime.

Yet President Bush and the world's most ineffective secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, can barely force themselves to say, in effect, "Tut, tut, tut. Can't you folks get along?"

If the Palestinian rockets were slaughtering Israelis, no one could complain. Even an occupying power has a right to defend itself. But these rockets, unguided, more often than not land where people aren't. According to a recent story in the Los Angeles Times, only 13 Israelis have been killed by these rockets in the past seven years. Hamas says the rockets are in response to Israeli attacks; the Israelis say the reprisal raid is in response to the rocket attacks.

Such circular action-reactions remind one of the wisecrack that if the world practices the old Hebrew "eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth" philosophy, the world would soon be blind and toothless. Unless the Israelis are willing to do as the Romans did and exterminate every Palestinian man, woman and child, they can't kill their way to peace. And neither can the Palestinians.

The guilty party in this dance of death is the Bush administration, which absolutely refuses to put even the least pressure on the Israelis. Israel has all the power. The Israelis are to the Palestinians like a 250-pound wrestler assaulting a 4-year-old child. Without pressure from the U.S., the Israeli government will go right on killing Palestinians, taking their land and expanding Israeli settlements. And Palestinians, weak as they are (they have no army, no air force, no navy, no country and no international help because the U.S. blocks all such attempts), will go right on resisting as best they can.

The Israelis are rearing a whole new generation of terrorists. When these Palestinian kids grow to manhood amid the chaos, humiliation, death and poverty the Israelis forced on them, they're going to be some mean, tough individuals unlikely to be particular about on whom or how they wreak their vengeance. We're growing our own crop of terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Israelis are short-term pragmatists. Their philosophy is that if someone is too weak to take something, why give it to him? They believe that as long as they can control the U.S. government, tap into its wealth and technology and hide behind its veto at the United Nations, there is no need for them to make any concessions at all. This has certainly worked for them in the short term.

In the long term, however, the Israelis are committing national suicide, just as one of their military intelligence people said. Sooner or later, General Birthrate and his armies will overwhelm them. The only way a small Jewish state can survive in the long run among a sea of Arabs is to get along with its neighbors. Other than the neighbors we bribe – Jordan and Egypt – all of the neighbors hate Israel.

The United States should stop the $3 billion annual gift to the Israelis and tell them that as of now, the U.S. will no longer protect them from United Nations sanctions or criticism with our veto. Israel is quick to say it is a sovereign and independent country; well, it's time the U.S. put that to the test.

If there is any part of the world where our policy should be trade and nothing else, it is the Middle East.


http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=12480
MLBoros72s
Israel kills hundreds of innocent people and they're defended blindly...what a fucking world we live in
thoroldjames
Quote: Originally posted by Luther

If the Palestinian rockets were slaughtering Israelis, no one could complain. Even an occupying power has a right to defend itself. But these rockets, unguided, more often than not land where people aren't.


so the fact that those that attack them are ill equipped to do so means Israel has no right to
retaliate?
Stonewall
There is no "peace" coming. During the 1990's when Clinton was inviting Arafat to the White House, Arafat was creating schools of death.

The Arabs are rabid.
Luther
Quote: Originally posted by thoroldjames
so the fact that those that attack them are ill equipped to do so means Israel has no right to
retaliate?




It has been said that an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, but this is a case of one hundred heads for an eye. There is no right of retaliation, and certainly not a right of violent escalation.
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Luther
[B][How Many Israelis Have Been Killed By Rockets?/B]


So what?

If someone was shooting at you, would you not want the person to be charged with attempted murder because he missed?

Bottom line - Israel gave Gaza back....terrorists in Gaza decided to start shooting Iranian-made rockets into Israel....Israel defended itself.

Do you not expect Israel to defend itself in the face of terrorist aggression?
Luther
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
So what?

If someone was shooting at you, would you not want the person to be charged with attempted murder because he missed?

Bottom line - Israel gave Gaza back....terrorists in Gaza decided to start shooting Iranian-made rockets into Israel....Israel defended itself.

Do you not expect Israel to defend itself in the face of terrorist aggression?




Retaliation is not synonymous with defense. If the United States kills 500,000 Iraqis, does Iraq have the right to defend itself by killing 10 million Americans? If someone tried to murder me, I would want that person charged with attempted murder, not to have all relatives of that person summarily executed.
thoroldjames
Quote: Originally posted by Luther
If the United States kills 500,000 Iraqis, does Iraq have the right to defend itself by killing 10 million Americans? .


Iraq could try to kill that many Americans, that's what a War is.
you keep killing until one side either cries Uncle or ceases to exist.

this isn't like a tense dispute among neighbours where the local courthouse makes the final call.

Judge Judy couldn't have put an end to World War 2
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Luther
Retaliation is not synonymous with defense. If the United States kills 500,000 Iraqis, does Iraq have the right to defend itself by killing 10 million Americans? If someone tried to murder me, I would want that person charged with attempted murder, not to have all relatives of that person summarily executed.


Well now you are going off the deep end by grasping onto unsubstantiated figures such as "500,000" Iraqis killed by Coalition forces and using loaded words like "executed."

We liberated the people of Iraq from a man who had killed more Iraqis than we ever will. That is a fact, and it is irrefutable. Contrary to what you may believe, we are the good guys in this whole thing.
babybear
we should give Israel more money and weapons so they can finish the job already.
Stonewall
13 Israelis have been killed by rockets in the past seven years

So what?

Are the Israeli population just to tell their government 'it does not really matter'? Is the government to tell their people, "don't worry about it, we'll wait till hundreds are dead"?

I wonder how long that government would last...
sergiomaverick
Fuckin Liberals.....

That is all
NCMike06
- Leftwing Luther logic = lets wait till thousands are dead, before we act... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

- Leftwing anti terror policy= if we fight the terrorists, we will only make them mad, and they will hate us more'

- Leftwing defense policy = lets roll up into a little ball, and the evil mean terrrorists will leave us alone..
salafibrigades
Israel should be allowed to act as an apartheid state. If not the little Hitlers "Arabs" will surely kill all the Children of God they can. Remember that the Bible promises the land to the Jews. How can one argue against that? I applaud the Jews conquest of the land and the forced expulsion and deaths of the cockroach arabs. The open air prisons in the West Bank and Gaza are needed to keep the terrorists from attacking the Children on God.
DUDE-HERE
the fact is all through history arabs have been back stabbers. its in their blood
modeams
Quote: Originally posted by DUDE-HERE
the fact is all through history arabs have been back stabbers. its in their blood
come on Dude, stick to the McDonald's threads...

what facts, where?

And I see nothing wrong with Israel's response. It was necessary.
Abba
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
So what?

If someone was shooting at you, would you not want the person to be charged with attempted murder because he missed?

Bottom line - Israel gave Gaza back ....terrorists in Gaza decided to start shooting Iranian-made rockets into Israel....Israel defended itself.

Do you not expect Israel to defend itself in the face of terrorist aggression?


Thanks for repeating the talking point. However, haven't you figured out that they don't work on this site? We're much too informed to buy into that propaganda bullshit.
Have you read anything about the so called "handover" of Gaza and what actually happened? Have you read the recent Vanity Fair article which so far hasn't been denied by anyone?
Bud, you should really try to get a serious clue rather than spout meaningless drivel that's based on something you saw on tv for 5 seconds and treat it as fact which you base your opinion on.

How can you truthfully have an opinion when you really know nothing about it? Do you subscrive to the George W Bush school of thought of discerning facts based on your "gut"??

Try a few facts here or there. You'll convince alot more people...
dreadlock
Quote: Originally posted by salafibrigades
Israel should be allowed to act as an apartheid state. If not the little Hitlers "Arabs" will surely kill all the Children of God they can. Remember that the Bible promises the land to the Jews. How can one argue against that? I applaud the Jews conquest of the land and the forced expulsion and deaths of the cockroach arabs. The open air prisons in the West Bank and Gaza are needed to keep the terrorists from attacking the Children on God.


the stumpynutz manifesto :lol:
NCMike06
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Thanks for repeating the talking point. However, haven't you figured out that they don't work on this site? We're much too informed to buy into that propaganda bullshit.
Have you read anything about the so called "handover" of Gaza and what actually happened? Have you read the recent Vanity Fair article which so far hasn't been denied by anyone?
Bud, you should really try to get a serious clue rather than spout meaningless drivel that's based on something you saw on tv for 5 seconds and treat it as fact which you base your opinion on.

How can you truthfully have an opinion when you really know nothing about it? Do you subscrive to the George W Bush school of thought of discerning facts based on your "gut"??

Try a few facts here or there. You'll convince alot more people...


Yeah, VTW...little Adolph here draws his conclusions from Vanity Fair.... How dare you actually use facts and reason to debunk Adolph and the rest of the Jew hating Palestinians !!!!

Remember, there can never be peace in the region until the tiny country of Israel is eliminated....after all, that tiny country is, by itself, holding back the whole of the Arab world. Most Arab countries are mired in poverty and dictatorship because of the existence of the tiny country of Israel... The Palestinians, who mostly originate from Jordan...so that it can be said that Palestinian people don't really even exist, will cease to be used as tools by the rest of the Arab world in their quest to remove that tiny country of Israel. That tiny country, Israel which seems to have some mystical power capable of stopping the Arab people from prospering, living under freedom, and joining the modern age....its an amazing thing, isn't it???

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
DUDE-HERE
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Thanks for repeating the talking point. However, haven't you figured out that they don't work on this site? We're much too informed to buy into that propaganda bullshit.
Have you read anything about the so called "handover" of Gaza and what actually happened? Have you read the recent Vanity Fair article which so far hasn't been denied by anyone?
Bud, you should really try to get a serious clue rather than spout meaningless drivel that's based on something you saw on tv for 5 seconds and treat it as fact which you base your opinion on.

How can you truthfully have an opinion when you really know nothing about it? Do you subscrive to the George W Bush school of thought of discerning facts based on your "gut"??

Try a few facts here or there. You'll convince alot more people...



well if it was in vanity fair ( lol ) then it must be true
Abba
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Yeah, VTW...little Adolph here draws his conclusions from Vanity Fair.... How dare you actually use facts and reason to debunk Adolph and the rest of the Jew hating Palestinians !!!!

Remember, there can never be peace in the region until the tiny country of Israel is eliminated....after all, that tiny country is, by itself, holding back the whole of the Arab world. Most Arab countries are mired in poverty and dictatorship because of the existence of the tiny country of Israel... The Palestinians, who mostly originate from Jordan...so that it can be said that Palestinian people don't really even exist, will cease to be used as tools by the rest of the Arab world in their quest to remove that tiny country of Israel. That tiny country, Israel which seems to have some mystical power capable of stopping the Arab people from prospering, living under freedom, and joining the modern age....its an amazing thing, isn't it???

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Mike, as you know, you are an imbecile. I only say it because it bears repeating for your edification.

Lil' Adolf!! :lol: dats a good vun! :rolleyes: Idiot. Waaa, he called me a name! waaa. You're a fuckin LOSER Mike, as you know.

The Vanity Fair article is only ONE in a whole series of in depth pieces on the real state of Israel and the Palestinians. Let's completely try something new with you and look at your kryptonite, FACTS:

Before Israel expelled almost a million PEACEFUL, INNOCENT people from their homes in the middle of the night, PALESTINE was mostly Arab (Muslim and Christian).

Israel survives SOLELY through massive US AID, including military, financial, and diplomatic. If you question Israel's strength, than you have a very dim view of America. Why do you hate America, Mike??

Israel NEVER withdrew from Gaza. It actually placed Gaza in a stranglehold, tightening an already stringent siege on 1.48 million people. Even now, only 20 items are allowed in. Rolling blackouts are a fact of life. You can't get any soap other than hand soap. Malnutrition is prevalent, and unemployement is up to 95%.

Israel CONTINUES even today to build homes and settlements on STOLEN land (Israeli courts' words, not mine), which are the single greatest obstacle to peace. Settlements continue to expand every single day, with more hardcore fundementalist Kahanist cocksucking Settlers who are openly hostile to the Palestinian residents.

Make no mistake, MANY of the Palestinians who are attacked and harrassed are CHRISTIANS, who have to endure Settler epithets cursing Christ, mocking his death, and blaspheming against the god YOU worship.

There are so many other FACT which you simply are too stupid or too deluded to understand, and I wish you the best of luck with that. I reccomend Exedrin for the migraine you just got, Son.

You have no fuckin clue what's going on over there, but you keep on calling me "Hitler", mkay? Whatever you need to get through the day. :rolleyes: Idiot.
NCMike06
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
Mike, as you know, you are an imbecile. I only say it because it bears repeating for your edification.

Lil' Adolf!! :lol: dats a good vun! :rolleyes: Idiot. Waaa, he called me a name! waaa. You're a fuckin LOSER Mike, as you know.

The Vanity Fair article is only ONE in a whole series of in depth pieces on the real state of Israel and the Palestinians. Let's completely try something new with you and look at your kryptonite, FACTS:

Before Israel expelled almost a million PEACEFUL, INNOCENT people from their homes in the middle of the night, PALESTINE was mostly Arab (Muslim and Christian).

Israel survives SOLELY through massive US AID, including military, financial, and diplomatic. If you question Israel's strength, than you have a very dim view of America. Why do you hate America, Mike??

Israel NEVER withdrew from Gaza. It actually placed Gaza in a stranglehold, tightening an already stringent siege on 1.48 million people. Even now, only 20 items are allowed in. Rolling blackouts are a fact of life. You can't get any soap other than hand soap. Malnutrition is prevalent, and unemployement is up to 95%.

Israel CONTINUES even today to build homes and settlements on STOLEN land (Israeli courts' words, not mine), which are the single greatest obstacle to peace. Settlements continue to expand every single day, with more hardcore fundementalist Kahanist cocksucking Settlers who are openly hostile to the Palestinian residents.

Make no mistake, MANY of the Palestinians who are attacked and harrassed are CHRISTIANS, who have to endure Settler epithets cursing Christ, mocking his death, and blaspheming against the god YOU worship.

There are so many other FACT which you simply are too stupid or too deluded to understand, and I wish you the best of luck with that. I reccomend Exedrin for the migraine you just got, Son.

You have no fuckin clue what's going on over there, but you keep on calling me "Hitler", mkay? Whatever you need to get through the day. :rolleyes: Idiot.


Sorry, Adolph...the SINGLE most important factor holding up any lasting peace is the FAILURE of much of the Arab world, especially the Palestinains to recognize Israels right to exist... Followed closely by the continued use (and support by the Palestinian government) of terrorism as a means to an unachievable end.

Lands won via war are not stolen, Adolph....sorry.

WHere does the vast majority of the Palestinian money come from...in fact, much of the support that the Palestinians receive, comes from ISRAEL !!!!

How is it that when Egypt and Jordan controlled those lands, there was no Palestinian state???

THe FACTS are that the only people responsible for the position and fate of the Palestinian people...are the PALESTINIAN people !! THey need to look no further for the source of their troubles. Should they choose peace, Israel will make peace. SHould they choose to prosper in that peace, Israel will be a willing partner.

Given your disdain for the newly won freedom of the Iraqi's and Afghans, and your support of the terrorist organization that is Hamas, Fatah, and related Palestinian organizations, who the fuck do you think you are kidding with your whiney bullshit concerning the so called Palestinian people. You don't really give 2 shits about them....all you know is Jew and Israel hatred....thats what this is all about with you, and the rest of you Arab scum that feel the same way. You will not be happy, regardless of what happens, regardless of any concession Israel makes, until Israel is no more... You are a hypocritical Jew hating fuck. Thats all you will ever be.
Abba
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Sorry, Adolph...the SINGLE most important factor holding up any lasting peace is the FAILURE of much of the Arab world, especially the Palestinains to recognize Israels right to exist... Followed closely by the continued use (and support by the Palestinian government) of terrorism as a means to an unachievable end.

Lands won via war are not stolen, Adolph....sorry.

WHere does the vast majority of the Palestinian money come from...in fact, much of the support that the Palestinians receive, comes from ISRAEL !!!!

How is it that when Egypt and Jordan controlled those lands, there was no Palestinian state???

THe FACTS are that the only people responsible for the position and fate of the Palestinian people...are the PALESTINIAN people !! THey need to look no further for the source of their troubles. Should they choose peace, Israel will make peace. SHould they choose to prosper in that peace, Israel will be a willing partner.

Given your disdain for the newly won freedom of the Iraqi's and Afghans, and your support of the terrorist organization that is Hamas, Fatah, and related Palestinian organizations, who the fuck do you think you are kidding with your whiney bullshit concerning the so called Palestinian people. You don't really give 2 shits about them....all you know is Jew and Israel hatred....thats what this is all about with you, and the rest of you Arab scum that feel the same way. You will not be happy, regardless of what happens, regardless of any concession Israel makes, until Israel is no more... You are a hypocritical Jew hating fuck. Thats all you will ever be.


:lol: What a vile diatribe based in bullshit and bitter inferiority. Are the sheep sick of sucking you down in the Carolina's, Mikey? It shows.

The fact that you continue to cling to the hope that I'm a jew hater as if repeating it makes it so and convinces someone else to believe it shows just how desperate you are, and how pathetic your opinion is. Your are the textbook exmaple of everything that should be ridiculed.

What do you think it says about YOU that you vehemently support brutal oppression of innocent people? You're on the wrong side of things, but that's usually the case isn't it? I can't even imagine how pathetic it must be to live a life like yours, if it can be called a life.
It must be such a bankrupt existence you live, so filled with hatred and jealousy, while I've lived a rich life, full of experiences that to an incest lover like you must be something out of a novel.

If you are too stupid to understand it from befpre, let me make it perfectly clear for you once again.

YOU are a self-hating bible thumper. You stand with those who literally torture your own co-religionists because of the ridiculous brainwashing you've undergone in your wretched life.
ISRAEL is the ONLY side that can make peace. PERIOD. The Palestinians were THERE FIRST, ACCORDING TO ISRAELI SOURCES.

Only through TORTURE AND TERROR did Israel come into existence. Those are not my words, imbecile, they belong to Israeli historians. ISRAELIS are the ones calling Israel out on it's continuing horrific treatment of the Palestinians. ISRAELIS are the ones who condemn the Settlers for behaving illegally and harrassing and attacking innocent CHRISTIAN Palestinians, you dumb fuck.

ALL of my facts come from ISRAELI sources, not FUCKS News. You're a fuckin disgusting idiot who has no clue what the fuck he's talking about. MAybe when you leave that shit little hillbilly hovel you come from and actually see things with your own eyes you should speak. Until then, shut the fuck up and let us Humans alone. I don't even want to be contaminated with your inhuman filth. On second thought, stay in that shanty town shithole you come from.

You are too fuckin stupid for my time.
NCMike06
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
:lol: What a vile diatribe based in bullshit and bitter inferiority. Are the sheep sick of sucking you down in the Carolina's, Mikey? It shows.

The fact that you continue to cling to the hope that I'm a jew hater as if repeating it makes it so and convinces someone else to believe it shows just how desperate you are, and how pathetic your opinion is. Your are the textbook exmaple of everything that should be ridiculed.

What do you think it says about YOU that you vehemently support brutal oppression of innocent people? You're on the wrong side of things, but that's usually the case isn't it? I can't even imagine how pathetic it must be to live a life like yours, if it can be called a life.
It must be such a bankrupt existence you live, so filled with hatred and jealousy, while I've lived a rich life, full of experiences that to an incest lover like you must be something out of a novel.

If you are too stupid to understand it from befpre, let me make it perfectly clear for you once again.

YOU are a self-hating bible thumper. You stand with those who literally torture your own co-religionists because of the ridiculous brainwashing you've undergone in your wretched life.
ISRAEL is the ONLY side that can make peace. PERIOD. The Palestinians were THERE FIRST, ACCORDING TO ISRAELI SOURCES.

Only through TORTURE AND TERROR did Israel come into existence. Those are not my words, imbecile, they belong to Israeli historians. ISRAELIS are the ones calling Israel out on it's continuing horrific treatment of the Palestinians. ISRAELIS are the ones who condemn the Settlers for behaving illegally and harrassing and attacking innocent CHRISTIAN Palestinians, you dumb fuck.

ALL of my facts come from ISRAELI sources, not FUCKS News. You're a fuckin disgusting idiot who has no clue what the fuck he's talking about. MAybe when you leave that shit little hillbilly hovel you come from and actually see things with your own eyes you should speak. Until then, shut the fuck up and let us Humans alone. I don't even want to be contaminated with your inhuman filth. On second thought, stay in that shanty town shithole you come from.

You are too fuckin stupid for my time.


You forgot the Sieg Heil !!

You talking about support of freedom and condemning the use of terror could be the funniest thing I have read on this board in quite awhile.... A comedy of hypocrisy is what you have become.

YOU are the one who supports the dictators of the Arab world...guess who they oppress??? THats right, Adolph....they oppress Arabs. You have nothing to say about that... You have nothing to say about the continued denial if basic rights to Arab people by Arab leaders. You have nothing to say about the continued denial of those people to participate in free elections. You have nothine to say about the fact that millions upon millions are forced to live in poverty by Arab leaders. You have nothing to say about the fact that Jew Hatred is taught in school, and desctruction of Israel is taught as the goal.

Yet you only have disdain for the freedoms won in Iraq and Afghanistan. Freedoms gained with the aid of the country you hate second most....the US....where you hypocritcally live your 'rich life' yet shit all over those who make that possible, and deny that life to those in the world who have only known oppression.....from your Arab dictatorial friends.

Since you are supposedly using Israeli sources... (like Vanity Fair... :burst: ) lets see what a forrmer PLO executive committee member had to say 30ish years ago...

Quote: The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan
.


That pretty much says it all, Adolph....

Ohh, and fuck you.
Abba
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
You forgot the Sieg Heil !!

You talking about support of freedom and condemning the use of terror could be the funniest thing I have read on this board in quite awhile.... A comedy of hypocrisy is what you have become.

YOU are the one who supports the dictators of the Arab world...guess who they oppress??? THats right, Adolph....they oppress Arabs. You have nothing to say about that... You have nothing to say about the continued denial if basic rights to Arab people by Arab leaders. You have nothing to say about the continued denial of those people to participate in free elections. You have nothine to say about the fact that millions upon millions are forced to live in poverty by Arab leaders. You have nothing to say about the fact that Jew Hatred is taught in school, and desctruction of Israel is taught as the goal.

Yet you only have disdain for the freedoms won in Iraq and Afghanistan. Freedoms gained with the aid of the country you hate second most....the US....where you hypocritcally live your 'rich life' yet shit all over those who make that possible, and deny that life to those in the world who have only known oppression.....from your Arab dictatorial friends.

Since you are supposedly using Israeli sources... (like Vanity Fair... :burst: ) lets see what a forrmer PLO executive committee member had to say 30ish years ago...



That pretty much says it all, Adolph....

Ohh, and fuck you.



:lol:
NCMike06
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
:lol:


Your most intelligent post to date... congrats, and Sieg Heil !

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