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PEGGY NOONAN says repubs are broken
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| PEGGY NOONAN says repubs are broken
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
DECLARATIONS
By PEGGY NOONAN
Pity Party
May 16, 2008
Big picture, May 2008:
The Democrats aren't the ones falling apart, the Republicans are. The Democrats can see daylight ahead. For all their fractious fighting, they're finally resolving their central drama. Hillary Clinton will leave, and Barack Obama will deliver a stirring acceptance speech. Then hand-to-hand in the general, where they see their guy triumphing. You see it when you talk to them: They're busy being born.
The Republicans? Busy dying. The brightest of them see no immediate light. They're frozen, not like a deer in the headlights but a deer in the darkness, his ears stiff at the sound. Crunch. Twig. Hunting party.
The headline Wednesday on Drudge, from Politico, said, "Republicans Stunned by Loss in Mississippi." It was about the eight-point drubbing the Democrat gave the Republican in the special House election. My first thought was: You have to be stupid to be stunned by that. Second thought: Most party leaders in Washington are stupid – detached, played out, stuck in the wisdom they learned when they were coming up, in '78 or '82 or '94. Whatever they learned then, they think pertains now. In politics especially, the first lesson sticks. For Richard Nixon, everything came back to Alger Hiss.
They are also – Hill leaders, lobbyists, party speakers – successful, well-connected, busy and rich. They never guessed, back in '86, how government would pay off! They didn't know they'd stay! They came to make a difference and wound up with their butts in the butter. But affluence detaches, and in time skews thinking. It gives you the illusion you're safe, and that everyone else is. A party can lose its gut this way.
Many are ambivalent, deep inside, about the decisions made the past seven years in the White House. But they've publicly supported it so long they think they . . . support it. They get confused. Late at night they toss and turn in the antique mahogany sleigh bed in the carpeted house in McLean and try to remember what it is they really do think, and what those thoughts imply.
And those are the bright ones. The rest are in Perpetual 1980: We have the country, the troops will rally in the fall.
"This was a real wakeup call for us," someone named Robert M. Duncan, who is chairman of the Republican National Committee, told the New York Times. This was after Mississippi. "We can't let the Democrats take our issues." And those issues would be? "We can't let them pretend to be conservatives," he continued. Why not? Republicans pretend to be conservative every day.
The Bush White House, faced with the series of losses from 2005 through '08, has long claimed the problem is Republicans on the Hill and running for office. They have scandals, bad personalities, don't stand for anything. That's why Republicans are losing: because they're losers.
All true enough!
But this week a House Republican said publicly what many say privately, that there is another truth. "Members and pundits . . . fail to understand the deep seated antipathy toward the president, the war, gas prices, the economy, foreclosures," said Rep. Tom Davis of Virginia in a 20-page memo to House GOP leaders.
The party, Mr. Davis told me, is "an airplane flying right into a mountain." Analyses of its predicament reflect an "investment in the Bush presidency," but "the public has just moved so far past that." "Our leaders go up to the second floor of the White House and they get a case of White House-itis." Mr. Bush has left the party at a disadvantage in terms of communications: "He can't articulate. The only asset we have now is the big microphone, and he swallowed it." The party, said Mr. Davis, must admit its predicament, act independently of the White House, and force Democrats to define themselves. "They should have some ownership for what's going on. They control the budget. They pay no price. . . . Obama has all happy talk, but it's from 30,000 feet. Energy, immigration, what is he gonna do?"
* * *
Could the party pivot from the president?
I spoke this week to Clarke Reed of Mississippi, one of the great architects of resurgent Republicanism in the South. When he started out, in the 1950s, there were no Republicans in his state. The solid south was solidly Democratic, and Sen. James O. Eastland was thumping the breast pocket of his suit, vowing that civil rights legislation would never leave it. "We're going to build a two-party system in the south," Mr. Reed said. He helped create "the illusion of Southern power" as a friend put it, with the creation of the Southern Republican Chairman's Association. "If you build it they will come." They did.
There are always "lots of excuses," Mr. Reed said of the special-election loss. Poor candidate, local factors. "Having said all that," he continued, "let's just face it: It's not a good time." He meant to be a Republican. "They brought Cheney in, and that was a mistake." He cited "a disenchantment with the generic Republican label, which we always thought was the Good Housekeeping seal."
What's behind it? "American people just won't take a long war. Just – name me a war, even in a pro-military state like this. It's overall disappointment. It's national. No leadership, adrift. Things haven't worked." The future lies in rebuilding locally, not being "distracted" by Washington.
Is the Republican solid South over?
"Yeah. Oh yeah." He said, "I eat lunch every day at Buck's Cafe. Obama's picture is all over the wall."
How to come back? "The basic old conservative principles haven't changed. We got distracted by Washington, we got distracted from having good county organizations."
Should the party attempt to break with Mr. Bush? Mr. Reed said he supports the president. And then he said, simply, "We're past that."
We're past that time.
Mr. Reed said he was "short-term pessimistic, long-term optimistic." He has seen a lot of history. "After Goldwater in '64 we said, 'Let's get practical.' So we got ol' Dick. We got through Watergate. Been through a lot. We've had success a long time."
Throughout the interview this was a Reed refrain: "We got through that." We got through Watergate and Vietnam and changes large and small.
He was holding high the flag, but his refrain implicitly compared the current moment to disaster.
What happens to the Republicans in 2008 will likely be dictated by what didn't happen in 2005, and '06, and '07. The moment when the party could have broken, on principle, with the administration – over the thinking behind and the carrying out of the war, over immigration, spending and the size of government – has passed. What two years ago would have been honorable and wise will now look craven. They're stuck.
Mr. Bush has squandered the hard-built paternity of 40 years. But so has the party, and so have its leaders. If they had pushed away for serious reasons, they could have separated the party's fortunes from the president's. This would have left a painfully broken party, but they wouldn't be left with a ruined "brand," as they all say, speaking the language of marketing. And they speak that language because they are marketers, not thinkers. Not serious about policy. Not serious about ideas. And not serious about leadership, only followership.
This is and will be the great challenge for John McCain: The Democratic argument, now being market tested by Obama Inc., that a McCain victory will yield nothing more or less than George Bush's third term.
That is going to be powerful, and it is going to get out the vote. And not for Republicans. |
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| MLBoros72s |
Glad you see the end :hw:
G.:hitler:.P. R.I.P. |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by MLBoros72s
Glad you see the end :hw:
G.:hitler:.P. R.I.P. |
I started to see the end shortly after GWB was reelected. Now it seems clear as day.
That still doesn't mean I think Obama will be elected just that the republican party has morphed into something I really don't like. |
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| mkriss5681 |
I think the best thing that could happen for the Republican party is a defeat in November. Much like the Democrats are doing the Republicans needs some new blood. Their polices are being influenced by people who fought in Vietnam and administered during the cold war. These guys are throwing big money and soldiers at international issues that should not be handled the same way they would have been in 1968. Hopefully they can get a candidate in 2012 that is younger but also follows the Ron Paul ideals of taking the conservative party back to its roots.
The main issue with conservatives is you can't call yourself a conservative when your party has made the government bigger than its ever been and spent the more money than any other administration. They can't be for smaller government until they abandon this bullshit war which will never happen. The only way this war ends and the Republicans to go back to being conservative is a defeat in this fall. |
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| NCMike06 |
The Republicans... a party which I am no longer a member, are in the position they are in because they decided to try to quench their thirst for power by acting and governing as liberals.
A good first step would be to remove the Republican leadership, and replace it with some of the few conservatives who still remain... |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
The Republicans... a party which I am no longer a member, are in the position they are in because they decided to try to quench their thirst for power by acting and governing as liberals.
A good first step would be to remove the Republican leadership, and replace it with some of the few conservatives who still remain... |
I'm curious then.... What party are you supporting? Independent or 3rd Party? Who are you voting for in November? |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
I'm curious then.... What party are you supporting? Independent or 3rd Party? Who are you voting for in November? |
Off the Presidential ballot, I will vote for the most conservative candidate, regardless of party.
I don't believe (I could be wrong) that the Libertarian party is an option in NC..at least on the ballot....however, as of today, I might just leave the Presidential ballot blank... I could never vote for the Marxist Obama....and McCain and his global warming nonsense will make it hard to color the circle by his name.... But November is a long way away... Its nobody, or McCain..at this point. |
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| acefree |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Off the Presidential ballot, I will vote for the most conservative candidate, regardless of party.
I don't believe (I could be wrong) that the Libertarian party is an option in NC..at least on the ballot....however, as of today, I might just leave the Presidential ballot blank... I could never vote for the Marxist Obama....and McCain and his global warming nonsense will make it hard to color the circle by his name.... But November is a long way away... Its nobody, or McCain..at this point. |
bob barr doesnt beleive in global warming. i saw him on glenn beck a few nights ago. he said it was all BS. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by acefree
bob barr doesnt beleive in global warming. i saw him on glenn beck a few nights ago. he said it was all BS. |
But he is for surrender in Iraq. Can't vote for that.... Sorry. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Off the Presidential ballot, I will vote for the most conservative candidate, regardless of party.
I don't believe (I could be wrong) that the Libertarian party is an option in NC..at least on the ballot....however, as of today, I might just leave the Presidential ballot blank... I could never vote for the Marxist Obama....and McCain and his global warming nonsense will make it hard to color the circle by his name.... But November is a long way away... Its nobody, or McCain..at this point. |
There is talk that Bob Barr might put up huge numbers in NC. It's got the republicans a little worried. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
There is talk that Bob Barr might put up huge numbers in NC. It's got the republicans a little worried. |
I'll have to check, but I'm not certain that the Libertarian party can get on the ballot here... That might change soon...but it really doesn't matter to me.. I won't vote for him, regardless. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
I'll have to check, but I'm not certain that the Libertarian party can get on the ballot here... That might change soon...but it really doesn't matter to me.. I won't vote for him, regardless. |
Before Bush I was never loyal to the Democrats. I was always a firm believer that there should be a third party and I wouldn't mind seeing some Libertarians in government. |
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| BarkonCue |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark
I started to see the end shortly after GWB was reelected. Now it seems clear as day.
That still doesn't mean I think Obama will be elected just that the republican party has morphed into something I really don't like. |
I hate to break it to you, but I've been saying bush was an inarticulate idiot for the last 8.5 years. It ain't new...he's an idiot and you guys kissed his ass so much, your lipprints are permanently marked on his ass-cheaks. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by BarkonCue
I hate to break it to you, but I've been saying bush was an inarticulate idiot for the last 8.5 years. It ain't new...he's an idiot and you guys kissed his ass so much, your lipprints are permanently marked on his ass-cheaks. |
It does irk me these Republicans who voted for Bush twice by 2004 were claiming to be independent by 2006 who will most likely vote McCain in 2008. |
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| BarkonCue |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
It does irk me these Republicans who voted for Bush twice by 2004 were claiming to be independent by 2006 who will most likely vote McCain in 2008. |
The media is acting as if Bush blind-sided America. like they didn't see it coming!
Soon enough, they will be be saying they never supported Bush.
Fucking Hypocrites.... :mad: |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
Before Bush I was never loyal to the Democrats. I was always a firm believer that there should be a third party and I wouldn't mind seeing some Libertarians in government. |
What does Bush have to do with your view of a third party, your support for Democrats, or Libertarians??? He is that powerful that he completely changed your view on all those subject? |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
What does Bush have to do with your view of a third party, your support for Democrats, or Libertarians??? He is that powerful that he completely changed your view on all those subject? |
Bush kinda got swept up in this whole neo-conservative movement. I have more a serious problem with that movements eroding of the separation of church and state, removal of our personal freedoms, and the empire building they tried and failed to do after Sept 11th. Bush just wasn't strong enough to break away from it or realize the damage he was doing.
Right now I think it's more important to vote Democratic to help break this strangle hold the Neocons have on this country. If we go with 4 more years of this our democracy itself is at stake. When things hopefully return to normal and conservative start being conservative again I might consider becoming independent again. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
Bush kinda got swept up in this whole neo-conservative movement. I have more a serious problem with that movements eroding of the separation of church and state, removal of our personal freedoms, and the empire building they tried and failed to do after Sept 11th. Bush just wasn't strong enough to break away from it or realize the damage he was doing.
Right now I think it's more important to vote Democratic to help break this strangle hold the Neocons have on this country. If we go with 4 more years of this our democracy itself is at stake. When things hopefully return to normal and conservative start being conservative again I might consider becoming independent again. |
Only if the socialists in the Democratic party get all 3 branches of power, will you see our democracy at stake. And make no mistake, Obama is a socialist, as are the leaders of the democratic party. |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
It does irk me these Republicans who voted for Bush twice by 2004 were claiming to be independent by 2006 who will most likely vote McCain in 2008. |
Were it so simple...
You really have the understand the history of how and why the republicans came to power, what they promised, what they preached and what they actually did and didn't do.
That all happened over the course of a decade. Asswipes who run around bleating the old "I Told You So" bullshit about GWB being the worst president ever is just kidding themselves by having the benefit of hindsight.
ANYONE can be right after the fact and I'm not impressed by anyone claiming they "knew" about Bush BEFORE he was even sworn into office. |
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| rod_jammer |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
The Republicans... a party which I am no longer a member, are in the position they are in because they decided to try to quench their thirst for power by acting and governing as liberals.
A good first step would be to remove the Republican leadership... |
Care to explain your avatar then? |
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| rod_jammer |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
What does Bush have to do with your view of a third party, your support for Democrats, or Libertarians??? He is that powerful that he completely changed your view on all those subject? |
Bush is not powerful, but so powerfully inept that he pushed me from an independent to a registered Democrat. |
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| BarkonCue |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Only if the socialists in the Democratic party get all 3 branches of power, will you see our democracy at stake. And make no mistake, Obama is a socialist, as are the leaders of the democratic party. |
I hope for once your right. |
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| Fdubya247 |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stupid-Mark
Were it so simple...
You really have the understand the history of how and why the republicans came to power, what they promised, what they preached and what they actually did and didn't do.
That all happened over the course of a decade. Asswipes who run around bleating the old "I Told You So" bullshit about GWB being the worst president ever is just kidding themselves by having the benefit of hindsight.
ANYONE can be right after the fact and I'm not impressed by anyone claiming they "knew" about Bush BEFORE he was even sworn into office. |
:lol::lol::lol:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
NC-Stupid-Mark
Confused Member
Meltingdown |
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| funker |
| Sometimes I agree hindsight is twenty-twenty, but with GWB it seemed so obvious that he was a screwup except for when he tried to win an election. And we are all guilty of fucking up royally by giving him a chance. But Republicans get the most blame because he was their guy. They sold their soul and the health of their party for years for a legacy that basically shat on the faces and made the presidencies of Franklin Pierce and James Buchanan look like the presidencies of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. |
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| mingmen |
Quote: Originally posted by BarkonCue
The media is acting as if Bush blind-sided America. like they didn't see it coming!
Soon enough, they will be be saying they never supported Bush.
Fucking Hypocrites.... :mad: |
they call themselves "independent" now :rolleyes: |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by Fdubya247
:lol::lol::lol:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
NC-Stupid-Mark
Confused Member
Meltingdown |
And then there are committed leftists like you, who still believe in a political party...
Give the Obama administration 4 years and then come back and tell me how great the democrat party is. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by rod_jammer
Care to explain your avatar then? |
It annoys the hell out of so many on this board....I will probably never change it. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by rod_jammer
Bush is not powerful, but so powerfully inept that he pushed me from an independent to a registered Democrat. |
Looks like you are using Bush as an excuse for your left wing slide... not a very 'independent' thing to do anyway, right? |
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| Fdubya247 |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stupid-Mark
And then there are committed leftists like you, who still believe in a political party... |
:lol:
Do tell, shit-fer-brains!!!
Fucking Idiot.
:rolleyes: |
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| Fdubya247 |
Quote: Originally posted by NCDike06
It annoys the hell out of so many on this board....I will probably never change it. |
Yeah.....that's the reason....
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
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| Fdubya247 |
NCStupid thinks no one saw the consequences of Bush/GOP rule......
What a fucking Tool....!!!
Congrats on continuing to be one of the dumbest posters we have! |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by Fdubya247
NCStupid thinks no one saw the consequences of Bush/GOP rule......
What a fucking Tool....!!!
Congrats on continuing to be one of the dumbest posters we have! |
Yeah and congress still gave this man you describe as a retard the means to go to war with Iraq. Admittedly for you, the democrats were in a minority at that time.
2 years after the so-called disaster and retard was reelected and democrats became a majority in congress, they continued to hand him billions of dollars for the war.
If Bush was one-tenth as bad as you portray him to be and if there truly was a difference between the two parties, that would have never happened. |
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| zimmie |
| The Democrats have been sucking Bushs' dick for the past two years. |
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| Fdubya247 |
Quote: Originally posted by NC-Stern-Mark
Yeah and congress still gave this man you describe as a retard the means to go to war with Iraq. Admittedly for you, the democrats were in a minority at that time.
2 years after the so-called disaster and retard was reelected and democrats became a majority in congress, they continued to hand him billions of dollars for the war.
If Bush was one-tenth as bad as you portray him to be and if there truly was a difference between the two parties, that would have never happened. |
Did people predict every aspect of this disaster before hand?
Yes.
Therefore, what you said was wrong. Own up to it instead of deflecting with a bunch of debunked talking points.
NC-Stupid-Mark
Confused Member
Meltingdown |
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| Fdubya247 |
Quote: Originally posted by zimmiecunt
The Democrats have been sucking Bushs' dick for the past two years. |
More than the repukes?....:
Hardly.
zimmietard ------> :jackoff:<------ Prez Dumbya |
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| NC-Stern-Mark |
Quote: Originally posted by Fdubya247
Did people predict every aspect of this disaster before hand?
Yes.
Therefore, what you said was wrong. Own up to it instead of deflecting with a bunch of debunked talking points.
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The point was the democrat congress handed Bush every thing he has fucking wanted since they took the majority.
You know, that democrat party you have so much faith in... :giggle: I guess they think Bush is just swell.
Nice deflection but that's not surprising from a scattered brain, burned-out radical wannabe like yourself. By the time you get your little cartoons posted, I doubt you even remember what the fucking point of the thread is. :) |
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