PORTLAND, Ore. -- Sen. Barack Obama has seen his share of large crowds over the last 15 months, but his campaign said they have not approached the numbers gathered along the waterfront here right now.
The campaign, citing figures from Duane Bray, battalion chief of Portland Fire & Rescue, estimated that 75,000 people are watching him speak.
The scene suggests this is not an exaggeration. The sea of heads stretches for half a mile along the grassy embankment, while others watch from kayaks and power boats bobbing on the Willamette River. More hug the rails of the steel bridge that stretches across the water and crowds are even watching from jetties on the opposite shore.
I've been here 15 years, nothing even comes close to the amount of people I saw downtown on Waterfront. It was unreal. Obamamania is alive and kicking here in P-town
RobinLuvsFood
That's a lot of white people
BarkonCue
Quote: Originally posted by Purity Knight I've been here 15 years, nothing even comes close to the amount of people I saw downtown on Waterfront. It was unreal. Obamamania is alive and kicking here in P-town
They better just close up DC on Inauguration Day ! :)
Anogram
Hopefully Obama's youtube channel puts this up. They have him in Gresham, OR and Roseburg, OR so far.
VacateTheWord
On one level it is impressive, but it is rather unnerving to see so many people come out as if the Second Coming had arrived.
It's similiar to the group-think psychology seen at the Neremberg Rallies held in the 1930s.
Reverend Tyler
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord On one level it is impressive, but it is rather unnerving to see so many people come out as if the Second Coming had arrived.
It's similiar to the group-think psychology seen at the Neremberg Rallies held in the 1930s.
Oh really? How about when 120,000 people gather to watch Notre Dame @ Michigan? A nazi rally?
Fuck off with your bullshit, it is not comparable to fucking Hitler. It just shows how incredibly populr the guy is, where people want to see and hear him speak in person. Just because McCain can only manage to get a couple thousand people excited enough to want to see him speak doesn't mean this is a negative in any way.
acefree
i understand why the mccain people hate the guy, hes untouchable. it must be very frustrating.
hey maybe if they mock his name that would help. it worked in 2nd grade, why cant it work now.
ill help. barack HUSSEIN obama.
did the poll #s change yet?
no? well just wait until they tell everyone hes one of those blacks. :rolleyes:
acefree
Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Oh really? How about when 120,000 people gather to watch Notre Dame @ Michigan? A nazi rally?
Fuck off with your bullshit, it is not comparable to fucking Hitler. It just shows how incredibly populr the guy is, where people want to see and hear him speak in person. Just because McCain can only manage to get a couple thousand people excited enough to want to see him speak doesn't mean this is a negative in any way.
mccain isnt that bad of a guy.
most of the on the blame falls on the republicans that blindly supported bush for 7 years. had they not been sheep, and had they stuck to thier conservative values and called bush out on his bullshit, things wouldnt be so fucked up that people are so desperate that they are even willing to vote for a black guy.
Purity Knight
Quote: Originally posted by acefree mccain isnt that bad of a guy.
most of the on the blame falls on the republicans that blindly supported bush for 7 years. had they not been sheep, and had they stuck to thier conservative values and called bush out on his bullshit, things wouldnt be so fucked up that people are so desperate that they are even willing to vote for a black guy.
That's why there is the big backlash against rebublicans these days. They were just too gutless to call out the mistakes of their party and did nothing but become professional apologists for 7 years. It's hard for them to have any sort of credibility now.
I think most Republicans just sort of felt attacked and backed in the corner and have really irrationally defended policies they don't even believe in. I think in further years most will regret their support of the Bush Admin.
cecilturtle06
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord On one level it is impressive, but it is rather unnerving to see so many people come out as if the Second Coming had arrived.
It's similiar to the group-think psychology seen at the Neremberg Rallies held in the 1930s.
:lol: Moron.
Did anyone hear Richard Wagner being played at the rally? Or people marching in formation, carrying torches? Were there follow up marches through downtown Portland? I guess 75,000 people can't congregate to listen to Obama speak without you making some dumbass comment.
MLBoros72s
Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Oh really? How about when 120,000 people gather to watch Notre Dame @ Michigan? A nazi rally?
Similar because one ethnic group(Irish) are getting a Wolverine style genocide :p
spankysxxx
Quote: Originally posted by BarkonCue
PORTLAND, Ore. -- Sen. Barack Obama has seen his share of large crowds over the last 15 months, but his campaign said they have not approached the numbers gathered along the waterfront here right now.
The campaign, citing figures from Duane Bray, battalion chief of Portland Fire & Rescue, estimated that 75,000 people are watching him speak.
The scene suggests this is not an exaggeration. The sea of heads stretches for half a mile along the grassy embankment, while others watch from kayaks and power boats bobbing on the Willamette River. More hug the rails of the steel bridge that stretches across the water and crowds are even watching from jetties on the opposite shore.
I have a house 3 miles from this spot and can only ask one question: Where the hell did they park?
This must be a plot. Probably just a photoshopped crowd.
danrich03
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord On one level it is impressive, but it is rather unnerving to see so many people come out as if the Second Coming had arrived.
It's similiar to the group-think psychology seen at the Neremberg Rallies held in the 1930s.
Do you STILL think Hillary is going to win the nomination?
LickInfectedAss
Quote: Originally posted by spankysxxx I have a house 3 miles from this spot and can only ask one question: Where the hell did they park?
This must be a plot. Probably just a photoshopped crowd.
Hey retard - You might own a house in the area, but you have no clue about the city's mindset or geographics of the area.
Metropolitan Area Express = MAX
Reverend Tyler
So fucking impressive
BarkonCue
chicagoirishtim
Yeah when he was in Seattle he fucked up all the traffic all over the city, not just by Key Arena which he sold out, unlike the Sonics. it's like The Beatles of politics.
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler Oh really? How about when 120,000 people gather to watch Notre Dame @ Michigan? A nazi rally?
Fuck off with your bullshit, it is not comparable to fucking Hitler. It just shows how incredibly populr the guy is, where people want to see and hear him speak in person. Just because McCain can only manage to get a couple thousand people excited enough to want to see him speak doesn't mean this is a negative in any way.
I'm not saying that Obama is Hitler. Don't get your panties in a bunch, Tyler.
What is similiar is the mass consciousness that is being created by one guy. You can call it impressive - I call it rather scary to see this sort of spectacle. And no, this is in no way comparable to a college football game. There is no ideology when people come to watch Notre Dame v. Michigan.
VacateTheWord
Check out the guy in the hat reading Obama's book - it's like a religion and the guy is reading from the holy text.
And Obama supporters have the audacity (no pun intended) to say that this isn't cult-like.
chicagoirishtim
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
Check out the guy in the hat reading Obama's book - it's like a religion and the guy is reading from the holy text.
And Obama supporters have the audacity (no pun intended) to say that this isn't cult-like.
Only a right-winger would hate on a guy for reading. "Look at that one man in a group of 60,000 reading a book, it's a cult I tell you.
Big Strick
Billy Graham and Richard Nixon at a Billy Graham Crusade in 1970. Looks to me just like Hitler and Mussolini.
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Big Strick Billy Graham and Richard Nixon at a Billy Graham Crusade in 1970. Looks to me just like Hitler and Mussolini.
A politician at a religious gathering - that is the equivalent? :jj:
Barack Obama is a politician and people are flocking to him like he is the Pope. No politician should be venerated in such a fashion - it really isn't a good thing.
chicagoirishtim
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord people are flocking to him like he is the Pope. No politician should be venerated in such a fashion - it really isn't a good thing.
but people flocking to a man who was part of the largest child molestation cover-up of all time is a good thing?
Big Strick
I don't think you should worry until Barack start telling people to throw Republicans into the oven.
BarkonCue
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord I'm not saying that Obama is Hitler. Don't get your panties in a bunch, Tyler.
:hw:
What is similiar is the mass consciousness that is being created by one guy. You can call it impressive - I call it rather scary to see this sort of spectacle. And no, this is in no way comparable to a college football game. There is no ideology when people come to watch Notre Dame v. Michigan.
To: kcvl
If a bomb fell on those slaving obamunists, killing every last one of them, nothing of value would be lost.
5 posted on 05/18/2008 4:51:48 PM PDT by exile ("Get off the phone, ya big dope"- The Great One)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies>
To: kcvl
This is one reason I shake in my boots....AMERICANS have been bamboozled by a TERRORIST LOVING MUSLIM!! There is no way McNUT can win against this evil man. WE ARE COOKED! The Obamessiah will be OUR next president. GOD HELP US! Never seeing anything like this only in text books during Hitler's reign!
6 posted on 05/18/2008 4:52:12 PM PDT by RoseofTexas
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies>
To: F15Eagle
Kind of like one of Hitler’s early rallies stirring up the masses. Both are (or were) so charismatic don’t ya know and both are just as destructive.
To: kcvl
One thing that frightens the living feces out of me: can we actually trust the same American electorate that gave us EIGHT years of Clinton to NOT give us OsamaObama?
24 posted on 05/18/2008 5:05:21 PM PDT by LiberConservative ("Typical" White Guy)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies>
To: Paige
I don’t think americans will accept Obama. I really don’t.
If Obama gets elected I hope there is a deep and visible split in the country that will take away any of OBama’s power.
It is almost worth going to war over. That is, if enough people still care about the US.
25 posted on 05/18/2008 5:06:06 PM PDT by modest proposal (Vote Obama: Support inviting anti-American zealots into the white house for tea.)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies>
I knew Obama would have a huge crowd - the superb weather helped - but I'm amazed and pleased at the 75,000 tally.
O8ama!
mingmen
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord A politician at a religious gathering - that is the equivalent? :jj:
Barack Obama is a politician and people are flocking to him like he is the Pope. No politician should be venerated in such a fashion - it really isn't a good thing.
the fear cuts like a knife :burst:
VacateTheWord
Is this the mountain that the crowd thought that Obama had carried the two stone tablets for all to behold?
Rhfactor
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
Is this the mountain that the crowd thought that Obama had carried the two stone tablets for all to behold?
Mt. Hood is a beautiful backdrop, isn't it? I love this city.
Fdubya247
VaCunt = :drown:
spankysxxx
Quote: Originally posted by LickInfectedAss Hey retard - You might own a house in the area, but you have no clue about the city's mindset or geographics of the area.
Metropolitan Area Express = MAX
It's called sarcasm "nubie" mult.
Anogram
Video of the event. It's ok quality.
AcquiringSignal
How many do you think McCain can pull.. I'd say no more then 2,000 to 3,000.
Pick a city any city and he wont pull more then 3,000.
zimmie
problem for Obama is, you don't vote in a city park
NickNuke
It's going to be funny when it all comes crashing down.
I can't wait for the protests when this Neo-Marxists, Obama, fails.
SaintJimmy
Quote: Originally posted by NickNuke It's going to be funny when it all comes crashing down.
I can't wait for the protests when this Neo-Marxists, Obama, fails.
Yeah - god knows, he might ruin the economy, or start an unwinnable war.
That would be terrible.
NickNuke
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy Yeah - god knows, he might ruin the economy, or start an unwinnable war.
That would be terrible.
Acually, Obama's plan will be terrible.
SaintJimmy
Quote: Originally posted by NickNuke Acually, Obama's plan will be terrible.
Put your crystal ball, down, goofball.
No one is interested in your predictions.
trentking
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
Check out the guy in the hat reading Obama's book - it's like a religion and the guy is reading from the holy text.
And Obama supporters have the audacity (no pun intended) to say that this isn't cult-like.
So one of our American citizens is trying to make an educated decision on who should get his vote in November and you call him a cultist? I heard some pretty ridiculous statements in this election year, but you're definitely at the top off the list.
zimmie
If he moves 50,000 troops to Afghanistan, fighting an unwinnable war is exactly what he'd do.
MLBoros72s
Quote: Originally posted by NickNuke It's going to be funny when it all comes crashing down.
I can't wait for the protests when this Neo-Marxists, Obama, fails.
Neo-Marxist? Are you fucking retarded?
Who fed you that little bullshit term? Was it Pill-boy or the Drop-out? Orly? Neo-fucking-Marxist? That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard.
The GOP is only missing an "ESTA"
acefree
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie If he moves 50,000 troops to Afghanistan, fighting an unwinnable war is exactly what he'd do.
if we listen to the generals and military experts, we can win. and we will win.
dont be such a defeatist loser.
our military men and women are the best in the world. they are heros.
i cant wait to honor them in the victory parade.
Stonewall
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie problem for Obama is, you don't vote in a city park
:)
Stonewall
Quote: Originally posted by acefree if we listen to the generals and military experts, we can win. and we will win.
dont be such a defeatist loser.
our military men and women are the best in the world. they are heros.
i cant wait to honor them in the victory parade.
What is the definition of victory?
I agree with your sentiments about the U.S. Armed Forces. However, they are obeying orders and fighting the war that politicians have designed. If no victory is achieved it won't be because of the U.S. military it will be because of politicians. As always. Our military has never lost a war, will never lose a war.
NickNuke
Quote: Originally posted by MLBoros72s Neo-Marxist? Are you fucking retarded?
Who fed you that little bullshit term? Was it Pill-boy or the Drop-out? Orly? Neo-fucking-Marxist? That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard.
The GOP is only missing an "ESTA"
So, throwing the word "Fascist" around makes sense? It's done all day long on this site.
Obama IS a socialist. There's no mystery here. He wants MORE of my tax dollars to give to the "poor".
I will vote for someone who looks to optimize the fiscal policy of our government. Right now, we dont' have a candidate who will do this for either party. Mr. McCain has some plan to reduce the amount of personal taxes (getting rid of AMT) and lowering corporate taxes (stimulate business) that will lower federal tax burden all around.
Mr. Obama wants to further burden corporations with higher taxes, as he fails to understand the principal that this will hurt the economy even further. His concept of "steal from the rich to give to the poor" appeals to the masses (the majority of ilk on this board) as they are probably more in lower income brackets and will not feel the affect. I pay over 150k a year in federal taxes, so you probably don't understand my viewpoint.
I am not voting for someone who wants to maximize taking more of my hard earned income.
spankysxxx
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy Yeah - god knows, he might ruin the economy, or start an unwinnable war.
That would be terrible.
That's true or maybe Obama will start taking money from the Social Security trust fund...
NickNuke
Quote: Originally posted by spankysxxx That's true or maybe Obama will start taking money from the Social Security trust fund...
No, man, he's going to make it all better.
He is going to end the illegal war in Iraq, and then take all that money for his socialized healthcare plan, give some more to the welfare recipients, and get rid of the evil, nasty corporations.
He's also going to bring down the price of oil by giving his book away to all those mean Saudis
Fucking idiots. Man.. I just laugh. They think they know so much, and they don't have a basic concept of how our financial markets operate.
zimmie
Quote: Originally posted by spankysxxx That's true or maybe Obama will start taking money from the Social Security trust fund...
The trust fund is a figment of imagination....it's been spent.......
acefree
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall What is the definition of victory?
I agree with your sentiments about the U.S. Armed Forces. However, they are obeying orders and fighting the war that politicians have designed. If no victory is achieved it won't be because of the U.S. military it will be because of politicians. As always. Our military has never lost a war, will never lose a war.
politicians should make the decision to go to war. but generals & admirals should make the decisions how to execute that war. US and NATO generals have said we need more troops in afgan. either start listening to them, or just come home.
the reason ppl disagree with this, is cause obama is saying it. if bush was saying it, they would be for it. its retarded logic.
i was for the iraq surge and im for the afgan surge. fight to win, or dont be there.
SaintJimmy
Quote: Originally posted by NickNuke No, man, he's going to make it all better.
He is going to end the illegal war in Iraq, and then take all that money for his socialized healthcare plan, give some more to the welfare recipients, and get rid of the evil, nasty corporations.
He's also going to bring down the price of oil by giving his book away to all those mean Saudis
Fucking idiots. Man.. I just laugh. They think they know so much, and they don't have a basic concept of how our financial markets operate.
If we elect Obama, we might have a recession, and the dollar might drop.
acefree
Quote: Originally posted by NickNuke No, man, he's going to make it all better.
He is going to end the illegal war in Iraq, and then take all that money for his socialized healthcare plan, give some more to the welfare recipients, and get rid of the evil, nasty corporations.
He's also going to bring down the price of oil by giving his book away to all those mean Saudis
Fucking idiots. Man.. I just laugh. They think they know so much, and they don't have a basic concept of how our financial markets operate.
if bush and mccain knew how the economy worked, they wouldnt of advocated the stimulus package.
so no candidates understand it, as usual. its a wash.
SaintJimmy
If we elect Obama, the debt will grow to unprecedented levels, and we'll be up to our grandchildren's necks in debt to China.
Stonewall
Quote: Originally posted by acefree politicians should make the decision to go to war. but generals & admirals should make the decisions how to execute that war. US and NATO generals have said we need more troops in afgan. either start listening to them, or just come home.
the reason ppl disagree with this, is cause obama is saying it. if bush was saying it, they would be for it. its retarded logic.
i was for the iraq surge and im for the afgan surge. fight to win, or dont be there.
Politicians have ruined many wars.
We can put all the troops we have into Afghanistan and it will change nothing. When we leave they will return to the Taliban or equivalent. They are almost there now.
Afghanistan will convict for Apostasy... this government we have allowed to govern.
The attacks that led to our being in Afghanistan were because of Islam. Sure they had complaints but it was Islam that provided the reasoning behind the attacks. Without Islam you don't have 9/11. Unless we root out Islam we can never win. We can be there and fight, but it will be never-ending.
I'll ask again what is victory?
Stonewall
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy If we elect Obama, the debt will grow to unprecedented levels, and we'll be up to our grandchildren's necks in debt to China.
You don't have to elect Obama to do that. Just keep up what we have been doing since the end of the Cold War.
:)
SaintJimmy
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall You don't have to elect Obama to do that. Just keep up what we have been doing since the end of the Cold War.
:)
Listening to republicans?
Stonewall
Quote: Originally posted by SaintJimmy Listening to republicans?
Or Democrats.
We need to end Globalization.
End NATO.
Pull troops out of all Muslim Lands, the former Yugoslavia, Asia, Europe.
Secure our technology.
Become self sufficient as a nation. End our dependency.
End immigration for Islam.
Build up our Navy.
Secure our borders.
End the so-called free trade.
Have an isolationist type policy.
Etc., Etc., Etc.
its-just-a-ride
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall Politicians have ruined many wars.
The attacks that led to our being in Afghanistan were because of Islam. Sure they had complaints but it was Islam that provided the reasoning behind the attacks. Without Islam you don't have 9/11. Unless we root out Islam we can never win. We can be there and fight, but it will be never-ending.
I like that u argue your points when questioned and have done some research but why do you and a lot of other people on this forum say things like "Unless we root out ISLAM we can never win"
Sounds like the kind of thing being said in Germany 60 years ago (just replace Judaism with Islam)
Anyone who says that kind of thing in the UK is immediately regarded as racist. I mean Turkey is an ally and a muslim country... should they be invaded aswell.
Its the extremists that cause the problems. I can't believe that u seriously think all Muslims are against whitey.
acefree
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall Politicians have ruined many wars.
We can put all the troops we have into Afghanistan and it will change nothing. When we leave they will return to the Taliban or equivalent. They are almost there now.
Afghanistan will convict for Apostasy... this government we have allowed to govern.
The attacks that led to our being in Afghanistan were because of Islam. Sure they had complaints but it was Islam that provided the reasoning behind the attacks. Without Islam you don't have 9/11. Unless we root out Islam we can never win. We can be there and fight, but it will be never-ending.
I'll ask again what is victory?
im not playing your game today bro. goina do some work.
peace
Stonewall
Quote: Originally posted by its-just-a-ride I like that u argue your points when questioned and have done some research but why do you and a lot of other people on this forum say things like "Unless we root out ISLAM we can never win"
Sounds like the kind of thing being said in Germany 60 years ago (just replace Judaism with Islam)
Anyone who says that kind of thing in the UK is immediately regarded as racist. I mean Turkey is an ally and a muslim country... should they be invaded aswell.
Its the extremists that cause the problems. I can't believe that u seriously think all Muslims are against whitey.
I don't think we should invade Muslim countries. If we do invade and expect to build a western style democracy, then the only way to achieve victory would be to root out Islam.
Even here I am considered all kinds of bad things because of my views. Racist... bigot, any number of things. Being from London I'm sure you are right that no one can say what I do without being branded. But, I don't see where that mindset has done the U.K. any good. All it does is stifle speech and deny reality. Eventually the truth has to be admitted and recognized even if you only admit it after it is too late to do anything about it. Remember that denial only helps that thing that will take over your country. We should not adopt the Muslim strategy of only telling the truth outside of the public square. Muslims tell each other the truth in their Mosques and we tell the truth in our minds, if we know the truth. Sometimes we come across Muslims who tell the truth outside and loud, and sometimes people like me get heard.
I don't think all Muslims are against "Whitey". Muslims are in a religion of supremacy. Against all others. That does not mean that all Muslims are against everyone, just their religion is against everyone. It was created that way. It's the way it is supposed to be. That is the blueprint. The fact that all Muslims may not follow their religion that does not mean that Islam is OK. It is not my fault that Islam is like this, it is only my fault that I openly admit what Islam teaches and creates and is. To deny that would not make me "nice" or "inclusive" or all the other wonderful things. No, it would just make me stupid and ignorant.
NoName
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord On one level it is impressive, but it is rather unnerving to see so many people come out as if the Second Coming had arrived.
It's similiar to the group-think psychology seen at the Neremberg Rallies held in the 1930s.
YES! But we plan on throwing right-wingers in the oven. "Anybody want a well done Hannity thigh?"
its-just-a-ride
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall I don't think we should invade Muslim countries. If we do invade and expect to build a western style democracy, then the only way to achieve victory would be to root out Islam.
Even here I am considered all kinds of bad things because of my views. Racist... bigot, any number of things. Being from London I'm sure you are right that no one can say what I do without being branded. But, I don't see where that mindset has done the U.K. any good. All it does is stifle speech and deny reality. Eventually the truth has to be admitted and recognized even if you only admit it after it is too late to do anything about it. Remember that denial only helps that thing that will take over your country. We should not adopt the Muslim strategy of only telling the truth outside of the public square. Muslims tell each other the truth in their Mosques and we tell the truth in our minds, if we know the truth. Sometimes we come across Muslims who tell the truth outside and loud, and sometimes people like me get heard.
I don't think all Muslims are against "Whitey". Muslims are in a religion of supremacy. Against all others. That does not mean that all Muslims are against everyone, just their religion is against everyone. It was created that way. It's the way it is supposed to be. That is the blueprint. The fact that all Muslims may not follow their religion that does not mean that Islam is OK. It is not my fault that Islam is like this, it is only my fault that I openly admit what Islam teaches and creates and is. To deny that would not make me "nice" or "inclusive" or all the other wonderful things. No, it would just make me stupid and ignorant.
Well, thanks for being honest.
Its too bad you feel this way against an entire religion.
What u describe though in terms of they have a superiority over others is the same as all the other main religions aswell (Christians. Jews etc.)
All i have to say is that its extremists on both sides that cause wars and its the average joe that gets shit on from a great height.
Mr. Hole
A beauiful sea of people!
Stonewall
Quote: Originally posted by its-just-a-ride Well, thanks for being honest.
Its too bad you feel this way against an entire religion.
What u describe though in terms of they have a superiority over others is the same as all the other main religions aswell (Christians. Jews etc.)
All i have to say is that its extremists on both sides that cause wars and its the average joe that gets shit on from a great height.
Islam sets out to rule over all other religions. I can think of no religion that has that goal in it's teachings. To make Islam above all others on earth and make the followers of those religions feel low and know their status... Dhimmi.
Show me that in another religion. Show me another religion that requires jihad until success over the world is achieved. A stated goal of the religion.
Is this extreme?...
Quote:From The Times
September 8, 2007
Our followers ‘must live in peace until strong enough to wage jihad’
Andrew Norfolk
One of the world’s most respected Deobandi scholars believes that aggressive military jihad should be waged by Muslims “to establish the supremacy of Islam” worldwide.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani argues that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
His views explode the myth that the creed of offensive, expansionist jihad represents a distortion of traditional Islamic thinking.
Mr Usmani, 64, sat for 20 years as a Sharia judge in Pakistan’s Supreme Court. He is an adviser to several global financial institutions and a regular visitor to Britain. Polite and softly spoken, he revealed to The Times a detailed knowledge of world events and his words, for the most part, were balanced and considered.
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire nonMuslim world was intent on destroying Islam. Yet this is a man who, in his published work, argues the case for Muslims to wage an expansionist war against nonMuslim lands.
Mr Usmani’s justification for aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy is revealed at the climax of his book, Islam and Modernism. The work is a polemic against Islamic modernists who seek to convert the entire Koran into “a poetic and metaphorical book” because, he says, they have been bewitched by Western culture and ideology.
The final chapter delivers a rebuke to those who believe that only defensive jihad (fighting to defend a Muslim land that is under attack or occupation) is permissible in Islam. He refutes the suggestion that jihad is unlawful against a nonMuslim state that freely permits the preaching of Islam.
For Mr Usmani, “the question is whether aggressive battle is by itself commendable or not”. “If it is, why should the Muslims stop simply because territorial expansion in these days is regarded as bad? And if it is not commendable, but deplorable, why did Islam not stop it in the past?”
He answers his own question thus: “Even in those days . . . aggressive jihads were waged . . . because it was truly commendable for establishing the grandeur of the religion of Allah.”
These words are not the product of a radical extremist. They come from the pen of one of the most acclaimed scholars in the Deobandi tradition.
Mr Usmani told The Times that Islam and Modernism was an English translation of his original Urdu book, “which at times gives a connotation different from the original”.
The video I posted earlier had a better view of the crowd from above. This vid is from Barack's youtube channel and has a better beginning of him in Portland ,Oregon.
its-just-a-ride
Quote: Originally posted by Stonewall
Is this extreme?...
No, that is just Islam.
He just sounds like a nutter if u ask me mate... Interesting read though.
But conspiracy theories are not a good thing to get wrapped up in (sorry, i have to class this as a conspiracy theory as its all about secrecy and boogiemen lying in wait)
One minute its the Jewish secret conspiracy to take over the world. Next its Communism. Now its Islam. It will be something else in 10 / 20 years time.
Sorry, you havn't sold it to me yet. We'll just have to agree to disagree...
cecilturtle06
Now just take that crowd and multiply by 10 come Inauguration Day when Obama is speaking to the American people. :tu:
Stonewall
Quote: Originally posted by its-just-a-ride He just sounds like a nutter if u ask me mate... Interesting read though.
But conspiracy theories are not a good thing to get wrapped up in (sorry, i have to class this as a conspiracy theory as its all about secrecy and boogiemen lying in wait)
One minute its the Jewish secret conspiracy to take over the world. Next its Communism. Now its Islam. It will be something else in 10 / 20 years time.
Sorry, you havn't sold it to me yet. We'll just have to agree to disagree...
The article says this person is not extreme. He visits the U.K. on a regular basis. One of the world’s most respected Deobandi scholars.
Mr Usmani, 64, sat for 20 years as a Sharia judge in Pakistan’s Supreme Court. He is an adviser to several global financial institutions and a regular visitor to Britain. Polite and softly spoken, he revealed to The Times a detailed knowledge of world events and his words, for the most part, were balanced and considered.
Yeah, a real a party freak...
Sure, lets agree to disagree.
zimmie
Quote: Originally posted by acefree if bush and mccain knew how the economy worked, they wouldnt of advocated the stimulus package.
so no candidates understand it, as usual. its a wash.
apparently the Congress doesn't understand it either...they were proponents of the stimulus package too
acefree
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie apparently the Congress doesn't understand it either...they were proponents of the stimulus package too
yes but its not news when liberals want to give money away.
my point is the current republicans are liberals too. thats why i dont obsess over liberal vs conservative. they are all liberals. wake up white people.
zimmie
John Kerry appeared before 80,000 in Wisconsin during his run......big deal
NCMike06
As the great one asked...
How many people appeared at Barack Hussein Obama's rally in Kentucky???
Answer: what rally?
BarkonCue
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie John Kerry appeared before 80,000 in Wisconsin during his run......big deal
That was the General Election. Big Difference...
zimmie
so you would expect much bigger crowds in Portland for Obama during the general election?
cecilturtle06
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie so you would expect much bigger crowds in Portland for Obama during the general election?
Sure, why not?
BarkonCue
Fdubya247
R. I. P.
G. :hitler:. P.
:hw:
Anogram
Quote: Originally posted by Fdubya247 R. I. P.
G. :hitler:. P.
:hw:
G.:hitler:.P.
:hw:
cecilturtle06
Quote: Originally posted by Anogram
G.:hitler:.P.
:hw:
:spit: :btu:
I like that one.
Fdubya247
:jj:
Neo-gro!
BarkonCue
Abba
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord I'm not saying that Obama is Hitler. Don't get your panties in a bunch, Tyler.
What is similiar is the mass consciousness that is being created by one guy. You can call it impressive - I call it rather scary to see this sort of spectacle. And no, this is in no way comparable to a college football game. There is no ideology when people come to watch Notre Dame v. Michigan.
At this point you're just pitiful and sad.
The only problem you have is that it's Obama, plain and simple. Were Bush or
McSame-Bullshit-Man to draw the same crowd, you would call it a mandate, a vindication, PATRIOTISM.
I am really starting to feel bad for you. For the first time in a long time millions of Americans are participating in the politcal processs, they're becoming aware of what their country is actually doing, they're standing up and making their voices heard.
That an "inexperienced" first term Senator can compell millions of Americans to brave the masses just to hear him speak is truly amazing and singular and inspiring.
By the way, on the issue of experience. Between Cheney and rumsfeld alone, there was over 50 years of Executive "eperience" in the Bush admin, not to mention that rest of the Principals and the slew of secondary apointees. Look how great that "experience" thing worked out.
I am proud to have supported and donated money to Barack Obama. I look forward to a brighter common sense based future for our country, where our leaders are once again accountable to the People.
Vacate, I bet you came in your underoos when Dick Cheney said "So?" when he was told that the majority of Americans are against the war and the Bush admiistration in general. :rolleyes:
mingmen
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie John Kerry appeared before 80,000 in Wisconsin during his run......big deal
was he treated like the pope?
VacateTheWord
Quote: Originally posted by Abba At this point you're just pitiful and sad.
The only problem you have is that it's Obama, plain and simple. Were Bush or
McSame-Bullshit-Man to draw the same crowd, you would call it a mandate, a vindication, PATRIOTISM.
I am really starting to feel bad for you. For the first time in a long time millions of Americans are participating in the politcal processs, they're becoming aware of what their country is actually doing, they're standing up and making their voices heard.
That an "inexperienced" first term Senator can compell millions of Americans to brave the masses just to hear him speak is truly amazing and singular and inspiring.
By the way, on the issue of experience. Between Cheney and rumsfeld alone, there was over 50 years of Executive "eperience" in the Bush admin, not to mention that rest of the Principals and the slew of secondary apointees. Look how great that "experience" thing worked out.
I am proud to have supported and donated money to Barack Obama. I look forward to a brighter common sense based future for our country, where our leaders are once again accountable to the People.
Vacate, I bet you came in your underoos when Dick Cheney said "So?" when he was told that the majority of Americans are against the war and the Bush admiistration in general. :rolleyes:
We've had millions of Americans involved in the political process for quite a while. The only reason it seems larger than normal is because the Democrat race has dragged on for as long as it has.
As for Obama and "inexperience, " I agree that he does not have the experience required for the highest office in the land. I've said repeatedly that he would make for an excellent VP choice, but he is not ready to be President. Can you name 5 things of consequence he has achieved in the US Senate? How about 5 things from his time in the Illinois State Senate? Or the years he spent as a "community organizer," whatever that is.
The Bush Administration's record will stand on the merits - no attacks on the US mainland since 9/11, low unemployment, years of strong economic growth, the liberation of 50 million people, etc.
I'm sure you are in the "worst President in the history of the U.S." group, right?
Abba
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord We've had millions of Americans involved in the political process for quite a while. The only reason it seems larger than normal is because the Democrat race has dragged on for as long as it has.
As for Obama and "inexperience, " I agree that he does not have the experience required for the highest office in the land. I've said repeatedly that he would make for an excellent VP choice, but he is not ready to be President. Can you name 5 things of consequence he has achieved in the US Senate? How about 5 things from his time in the Illinois State Senate? Or the years he spent as a "community organizer," whatever that is.
The Bush Administration's record will stand on the merits - no attacks on the US mainland since 9/11, low unemployment, years of strong economic growth, the liberation of 50 million people, etc.
I'm sure you are in the "worst President in the history of the U.S." group, right?
What kind of fantasy world are you living in??
This post of yours is the biggest steaming pile of shit I've ever come across.
Idiots like you STILL think it was about WMD's, or that there's animosity with Iran over anything other than Azerbijan and the Caspian.
Talk to me when you have a clue.
NoName
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie John Kerry appeared before 80,000 in Wisconsin during his run......big deal
Douchebag, Bruce Springsteen performed!
Bist Meshugeh
Not much to do in Portland I take it. I am thankful I live in NYC were we can look at muslims anytime we want.
Bist Meshugeh
Quote: Originally posted by BarkonCue [B]
Look at all the white folk in the crowd, I think they just want to see a black man or muslim in person.
This website is not affiliated with the Howard Stern Show. It is produced by fans for fans. We share no connection with Howard Stern, Sirius Radio, On Demand, CBS Broadcasting, E! TV or Infinity Broadcasting.
All posts and attachments are the responsibilities of their owners and not of this site.
