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McCain too busy at a fund raiser to vote for veterans rights bill...
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| McCain too busy at a fund raiser to vote for veterans rights bill...
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| mkriss5681 |
| No conservatives want to comment on this? In my opinion this is the ultimate flip flop. |
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| VacateTheWord |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
No conservatives want to comment on this? In my opinion this is the ultimate flip flop. |
Senator McCain has his own version of a new G.I. Bill - how exactly is this a "flip-flop?" |
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| iatebethO |
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
Senator McCain has his own version of a new G.I. Bill - how exactly is this a "flip-flop?" |
Actually McCain' Bill is more of a "fuck-fuck".
Fuck them by sending them to Iraq and then fuck them when they come back. It's pretty simple. |
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| VacateTheWord |
Quote: Originally posted by iatebethO
Actually McCain' Bill is more of a "fuck-fuck".
Fuck them by sending them to Iraq and then fuck them when they come back. It's pretty simple. |
Going by your assertion, you have read the text of McCain's bill.
Right? |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
Senator McCain has his own version of a new G.I. Bill - how exactly is this a "flip-flop?" |
Ask a troop who supports this bill. They want it as do 74 members of the senate. McCain is putting his blind support of Bush before the troops. If McCain want to give the troops more, great make a new bill that supplements this one. WHY THE FUCK DO THE TROOPS HAVE TO WAIT WHILE MCCAIN/BUSH ARGUE THEIR VERSION!!! Something is better than nothing. McCain is APPEASING Bush by fucking the troops. |
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| mkriss5681 |
| It seems McCain and Bush support the troops when it furthers their political goals |
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| VacateTheWord |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
Ask a troop who supports this bill. They want it as do 74 members of the senate. McCain is putting his blind support of Bush before the troops. If McCain want to give the troops more, great make a new bill that supplements this one. WHY THE FUCK DO THE TROOPS HAVE TO WAIT WHILE MCCAIN/BUSH ARGUE THEIR VERSION!!! Something is better than nothing. McCain is APPEASING Bush by fucking the troops. |
I think you are talking about an amendment versus your assertion that he should "make a new bill that supplements this one."
Nevertheless - I'm still waiting for the "flip-flop." |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
I think you are talking about an amendment versus your assertion that he should "make a new bill that supplements this one."
Nevertheless - I'm still waiting for the "flip-flop." |
It's pretty fucking simple. McCain says he supports troops but claims we can't afford to give our troops help when they get home from war. Unfortunately 3 quarters of the Senate disagree with you, Bush, and McCain. |
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| mkriss5681 |
| The Bush administration said they do not support this Bill because "they don't want encourage troops to leave the service". Fucking outrageous. |
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| mkriss5681 |
McCain Is AWOL On New GI Bill
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/...gi_n_94791.html
In November 2007, Sens. Jim Webb and Chuck Hagel penned an op-ed in the New York Times advocating a reformed G.I. Bill that would provide Iraq war veterans with greater educational opportunities.
The idea, which was first introduced in January 2007, was at once ambitious and benign. Adjust the current landmark law -- which requires members of the armed services to pay $1,200 in order to participate -- to better account for spikes in tuition and living expenses. Not only would there be a greater incentive for those considering enlistment, but the American economy would be bolstered by an influx of educated veterans.
"We must put together the right formula that will demonstrate our respect for those who have stepped forward to serve in these difficult times," wrote Webb and Hagel. "First-class service to country deserves first-class appreciation."
Flash-forward several months and Webb and Hagel's vision (after months of consideration) is on the cusp of codification. The 21st Century G.I. Bill may be included in the language of the next Iraq war supplemental. And while, if considered separately, it could require 60 votes for passage, more than 50 Senators -- including many Republicans -- have already signed on as co-sponsors.
And yet, surprisingly, one of those Senators who has not yet offered his support is John McCain. How could a veteran of Vietnam and someone widely touted as Congress' foremost champions of veterans' affairs not sign on to a largely bipartisan, uncontroversial measure? (Both Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are co-sponsors).
A member of the organization Student Veterans of America asked the presumptive GOP nominee that very question several months after Webb and Hagel wrote their op-ed.
"I have not had the chance to examine it carefully," he said. "It seems to me that it is a good thing to do. But I haven't examined it with the care that it needs. But we obviously need to do something along those lines."
To this day, however, McCain has not signed on. Those committed to the legislation say they hold out hope and some expectation that he will ultimately back the measure (whether it be through co-sponsorship or a simple 'yes' vote). But the Senator's lack of leadership on the topic has been telling.
"John McCain needs to be on this bill," Webb said in a statement to The Huffington Post. "I have said to him several times that this is not a political issue -- this is about providing a fair, deserved benefit to our troops. Based on his own military history and how strongly he speaks about the positive contributions of the people who have served, I hope that he will get on board and support this new GI bill."
Indeed, opposition to the measure in the Senate is limited at best. There are those who argue that the cost -- roughly $2 billion more annually than the current bill -- is prohibitive. But last fall, Congress appropriated $19 billion or education grants on the basis of financial need. Moreover, the price tag for the Webb-Hagel measure is about the same as the cost of just a week at war.
The real hang-up for McCain may be the fact that the Bush administration has resisted the legislation. White House officials say that giving soldiers such an strong incentive to leave the armed forces would result in low retention rates. Soldiers sign up and -- after two years -- leave the army in droves to get their free education.
But as The American Conservative pointed out, it is "creepy" that defense officials would assume that "every enlistee should want nothing more than a life-time career as a professional soldier." Moreover, what's more of a retention killer: a violent and lengthy war in Iraq or the promise of education should you serve?
In the end, the bill, political observers say, is likely to pass with or without McCain's support. After all, it is tough to vote against a measure that gives veterans tuition, room and board, and a monthly stipend in exchange for their service. As The Washington Post editorialized: "Mr. Webb is right when he argues that the education of the nation's veterans must be considered a cost of war and one that the nation can't afford not to pay." |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by iatebethO
Actually McCain' Bill is more of a "fuck-fuck".
Fuck them by sending them to Iraq and then fuck them when they come back. It's pretty simple. |
:jj: |
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| mkriss5681 |
| You can bet for damn sure Obama will be running ads in military states showing McCain at a fund raiser while the GI Bill was being passed. |
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| VacateTheWord |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
It's pretty fucking simple. McCain says he supports troops but claims we can't afford to give our troops help when they get home from war. Unfortunately 3 quarters of the Senate disagree with you, Bush, and McCain. |
When did McCain ever say that "we can't afford to give our troops help when they get home from war." Please provide the quote, or admit that you are lying.
Also, it is laughable that Obama would have the audacity to chide Senator McCain for not signing onto Webb's legislation from the floor of the Senate no less. Obama, by choice, has never volunteered to serve his country - his demagoguing the issue is pathetic. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
When did McCain ever say that "we can't afford to give our troops help when they get home from war." Please provide the quote, or admit that you are lying. |
The cost is not just in money but McCain is scared we will "lose too many troops" because they will leave the service to cash in on the bill.
Source: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/w...osts/?page=full
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
Also, it is laughable that Obama would have the audacity to chide Senator McCain for not signing onto Webb's legislation from the floor of the Senate no less. Obama, by choice, has never volunteered to serve his country - his demagoguing the issue is pathetic. |
Didn't Bush just commit treason and hypocrisy by condemning Obama for promoting diplomacy in the Israeli parlement, and last I check Bush and Chaney did not see any action in Vietnam.
Your arguments are fucking stupid. McCain will have this issue come up in the fall. He put politics in front of our troops. He may have his own bill but the troops cannot fucking wait for his and Bush's pandering.
MCCAIN FAILED OUR TROOPS BECAUSE HE DID NOT WANT TO UPSET HIS MASTER BUSH! |
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| mkriss5681 |
| VacateTheWord, how the hell can you argue the troops should not have their tuition paid for? After WWII when those troops came back they had 100% of their school paid for and this fucking built the middle class. Would you rather see our troops educated or working shitty jobs for the rest of their lives? |
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| mkriss5681 |
http://www.johnmccain.com/informing...d36de79a10a.htm
Quote: Originally posted by John McCain
The most important difference between our two approaches is that Senator Webb offers veterans who served one enlistment the same benefits as those offered veterans who have re-enlisted several times. Our bill has a sliding scale that offers generous benefits to all veterans, but increases those benefits according to the veteran's length of service. I think it is important to do that because, otherwise, we will encourage more people to leave the military after they have completed one enlistment. At a time when the United States military is fighting in two wars, and as we finally are beginning the long overdue and very urgent necessity of increasing the size of the Army and Marine Corps, one study estimates that Senator Webb's bill will reduce retention rates by 16%. |
FACT: MCCAIN'S BILL WOULD BE LESS MONEY FOR OUR VETS AND WOULD FORCE THEM INTO MULTIPLE TOURS. INSTEAD OF GIVING THE IMMEDIATE BENIFITS THEY WOULD HAVE TO WAIT WHILE MCCAIN ARGUED TO UNDERCUT THEM IN THE SENATE
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| AcquiringSignal |
FUCK the cost of this GI Bill.. If we can spend $12 BILLION a MONTH of a fake bullshit war that is money driven for Bush & his Republicans friends to make money rebuilding a country aswell as give all his buddies contracts.
Who Cares WHAT this bill cost!! WE ARE ALREADY IN DEBT by $9 TRILLION!!!! adding something that actually helps the our kids improve their lives AFTER they risk it.. That is perfectly fine with me, who cares the cost.
This is a MAJOR MAJOR fuck up by McCain!! Major!!! This was a really stupid move.. why he wants to link himself to GW Bush is beyond me??!? They guy is at 27%... amazing :rolleyes:
So Bush & McCain dont want our kids to have an option after 3 years to improve their lives.. they want the backdoor draft/slavery until they DIE! How many times are our kids going to risk their lives before they die or get their arms and legs blown off.
God Bless the Democrats & Republicans for voting yes to this bill! |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by AcquiringSignal
FUCK the cost of this GI Bill.. If we can spend $12 BILLION a MONTH of a fake bullshit war that is money driven for Bush & his Republicans friends to make money rebuilding a country aswell as give all his buddies contracts.
Who Cares WHAT this bill cost!! WE ARE ALREADY IN DEBT by $9 TRILLION!!!! adding something that actually helps the our kids improve their lives AFTER they risk it.. That is perfectly fine with me, who cares the cost.
This is a MAJOR MAJOR fuck up by McCain!! Major!!! This was a really stupid move.. why he wants to link himself to GW Bush is beyond me??!? They guy is at 27%... amazing :rolleyes:
So Bush & McCain dont want our kids to have an option after 3 years to improve their lives.. they want the backdoor draft/slavery until they DIE! How many times are our kids going to risk their lives before they die or get their arms and legs blown off.
God Bless the Democrats & Republicans for voting yes to this bill! |
:clap: Well said. I have no problem at all paying a few cents every pay check to help our troops out. I firmly believe the more college grads we have the better chance we have of preserving our middle class. If our troops who serve even one tour don't deserve college as a way of thanks from the American people who does? |
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| AcquiringSignal |
What some of these freaks dont understand is...
We probably will have more kids enlist into the military. NOW they see no end, no more Republican "talking points" of having a phrase which sounds good about (Supporting the Troops) and so many our catchy phrases which sound good, but that they dont back it up with anything.
Now a young adult will look at the military as an option to improve the country and their own personal lives! Before if they asked ANY person in the military and did a little research seeing that they have this backdoor draft where there is no end until you basically die.... THATS WHY less and less are enlisting! They are being lied to, totally bullshitted to :(
Again their is 2 kind of spending... I have always felt if we spent a TON of money on schools - Give EVERY kid a 2 year college school. Over time our WHOLE country would be smarter - the next generation and so on, which in turn we would have be able to be ahead of the world! On fixing problems - inventing new energy - improving our lives with smart creative people.
You would in turn spend less on other things/other programs like a welfare/etc... if we did a little in the positive. That is a positive spending.. looking ahead and seeing that this money spent will help fix so many peoples lives and mostly help this country!
It is going to be pretty hard for the Republicans to use their same old tricks on spending... when THEY have spent $12 Billion a month of Iraq to rebuild their country!
It is time to improve our country! |
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| zimmie |
We could double the spending on Iraq and it wouldn't come close to the spending Obama has planned for this country.
And what makes you think we're leaving Iraq if Obama becomes President?...Because he says so now?
LMAO |
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| zimmie |
| Jim Webb once desribes the Naval Academy as a "horny woman's dream............he's the worst kind of sexist. He's an asshole and has no respect for women serving their country. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie
We could double the spending on Iraq and it wouldn't come close to the spending Obama has planned for this country.
And what makes you think we're leaving Iraq if Obama becomes President?...Because he says so now?
LMAO |
Quote: Originally posted by zimmie
Jim Webb once desribes the Naval Academy as a "horny woman's dream............he's the worst kind of sexist. He's an asshole and has no respect for women serving their country. |
Character attacks still don't explain why McCain in good conscience refused to vote for this bill and why anyone wouldn't want our vets to get a free education. |
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| Halcyon |
I mean... I'm all for bashing candidates and such, but they ARE in the midst of a presidential election. And while I'll agree that McCain doesn't seem to have any opponents for the G.O.P. nod, nevertheless, fund raising is of utmost concern when going up against the daunting task of trying to beat Clinton or Obama and the bad taste Bush has left in everyone's mouth about the Republican party.
So really, as much as you don't think fundraising is such a big deal, maybe you should cut the guy some fucking slack. He's got more fundraising to do than Obama OR Clinton simply because he's the third most popular candidate in the race.
So he wasn't there to vote on something important? I believe everyone has been 'absent' during an 'important' vote at one time or another.
I'm sure Clinton hasn't been there to vote on 'key' issues all the time as well. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
I mean... I'm all for bashing candidates and such, but they ARE in the midst of a presidential election. And while I'll agree that McCain doesn't seem to have any opponents for the G.O.P. nod, nevertheless, fund raising is of utmost concern when going up against the daunting task of trying to beat Clinton or Obama and the bad taste Bush has left in everyone's mouth about the Republican party.
So really, as much as you don't think fundraising is such a big deal, maybe you should cut the guy some fucking slack. He's got more fundraising to do than Obama OR Clinton simply because he's the third most popular candidate in the race.
So he wasn't there to vote on something important? I believe everyone has been 'absent' during an 'important' vote at one time or another.
I'm sure Clinton hasn't been there to vote on 'key' issues all the time as well. |
The point isn't that McCain was out doing fund raising but he has been against this bill for a long time for the simple reason the Bush administration is afraid it will hurt reenlistment. McCain is just sucking up to Bush at the cost of our troops. If he really cared about the troops he would have stood up against the administration. |
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| Halcyon |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
The point isn't that McCain was out doing fund raising but he has been against this bill for a long time for the simple reason the Bush administration is afraid it will hurt reenlistment. McCain is just sucking up to Bush at the cost of our troops. If he really cared about the troops he would have stood up against the administration. |
Of course he's sucking up to Bush. But I'm not sure he personally 'doesnt care' about the troops. Remember, he used to serve our country.
Unlike chickenhawk Bush, I think he has a little more 'feeling' for our troops than he has to let on. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
Of course he's sucking up to Bush. But I'm not sure he personally 'doesnt care' about the troops. Remember, he used to serve our country.
Unlike chickenhawk Bush, I think he has a little more 'feeling' for our troops than he has to let on. |
It just brings up questions of integrity. I'll concede a point to you that the main reason McCain needs to suck up to Bush is to help get contributions for the richest extreme right donors. It just questions how far McCain will go to help Vets. Apparently he'll go so far as long as it doesn't hurt his campaign financing. |
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| Reverend Tyler |
Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
I mean... I'm all for bashing candidates and such, but they ARE in the midst of a presidential election. And while I'll agree that McCain doesn't seem to have any opponents for the G.O.P. nod, nevertheless, fund raising is of utmost concern when going up against the daunting task of trying to beat Clinton or Obama and the bad taste Bush has left in everyone's mouth about the Republican party.
So really, as much as you don't think fundraising is such a big deal, maybe you should cut the guy some fucking slack. He's got more fundraising to do than Obama OR Clinton simply because he's the third most popular candidate in the race.
So he wasn't there to vote on something important? I believe everyone has been 'absent' during an 'important' vote at one time or another.
I'm sure Clinton hasn't been there to vote on 'key' issues all the time as well. |
The reason he didnt go to vote is because he doesnt want to be on record voting against the Troops. He has made his position against the troops quite clear, however. |
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| Reverend Tyler |
Quote: Originally posted by Halcyon
Of course he's sucking up to Bush. But I'm not sure he personally 'doesnt care' about the troops. Remember, he used to serve our country.
Unlike chickenhawk Bush, I think he has a little more 'feeling' for our troops than he has to let on. |
Good point...He really just doesnt care about troops who only serve one term. They arent "real" soldiers |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler
The reason he didnt go to vote is because he doesnt want to be on record voting against the Troops. He has made his position against the troops quite clear, however. |
Exactly. If he had real integrity he would have showed up and voted no and explained why in person. He left himself open to criticism and he is only defense is "Obama didn't serve". |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by Reverend Tyler
Good point...He really just doesnt care about troops who only serve one term. They arent "real" soldiers |
God forbid these 18 year olds want to go to war for our country and want to get on with their lives. This policy of forcing kids to reenlist is equivalent to a silent draft. |
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| NoName |
| I think those young men and women should get free college, free home, free car and a baseball bat which they can use on any American who supported the war and didn't fight. |
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| ArivacaCharlie |
That's one of the long standing constants about McCain that has always driven me crazy:
As a vet and a POW, he never exhibited much concern for veterans or veterans' rights. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by ArivacaCharlie
That's one of the long standing constants about McCain that has always driven me crazy:
As a vet and a POW, he never exhibited much concern for veterans or veterans' rights. |
All he can say is "Obama never served". He has not ONCE in the past two days justified his actions for not showing up to vote. Pretty lame. |
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| NoName |
| I never played baseball so I guess I should stop rooting for the Yankees. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by NoName
I never played baseball so I guess I should stop rooting for the Yankees. |
:jj: |
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| NoName |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
:jj: |
Sometimes a good "roll eyes" is just not enough. :D ;) |
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| mkriss5681 |
One think no one has mentioned is this is a major defeat for Bush and McCain, and a huge victory for Democrats. How humiliating is that more than half of Republicans voted AGAINST Bush/MCCain!!
:jj: |
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| NoName |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
One think no one has mentioned is this is a major defeat for Bush and McCain. How humiliating is that more than half of Republicians voted AGAINST bush/MCCain!!
:jj: |
I can't wait til the War Crimes Tribunal begins! |
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| mkriss5681 |
| So many in fact the bill is now Veto proof!! |
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| ArivacaCharlie |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
One think no one has mentioned is this is a major defeat for Bush and McCain, and a huge victory for Democrats. How humiliating is that more than half of Republicans voted AGAINST Bush/MCCain!! So many in fact the bill is now Veto proof!!
:jj: |
I find myself relieved to know that "more than half of the Republicans" might still have a spark of sanity left in themselves. |
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| BarkonCue |
| If only Obama's Dad and Grandpappy had been Admirals. He too could have got legacied into the Naval Academy, though Obama would not have been 894th out of 899 in his class. |
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| NoName |
Quote: Originally posted by ArivacaCharlie
I find myself relieved to know that "more than half of the Republicans" might still have a spark of sanity left in themselves. |
Chuck Hagel might be Obama's VP |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by ArivacaCharlie
I find myself relieved to know that "more than half of the Republicans" might still have a spark of sanity left in themselves. |
Yeah. This is actually huge news. I'm surprized it's not on more news shows. I personally think McCain chose yesterday to renounce his senator to help cover his tracks on this bill. He was going to need to renounce him sooner or later but he did it on the day this bill passed so you wouldn't hear as much about it in the news, but this will be an issue in November. When McCain tries to say he supports the troops, Obama will put this card into play.
This is a huge failure for McCain. More Republicans have confidence in Jim Webb's (D) bill than McCains. Republicans have said they are sick of their poll numbers dropping and they are no longer going to suck up to Bush. McCain must have not gotten the memo. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by NoName
Chuck Hagel might be Obama's VP |
:jj: |
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| NoName |
Quote: Originally posted by mkriss5681
:jj: |
better then Hillary. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by NoName
better then Hillary. |
Very much so. |
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| spankysxxx |
The Republicans must be broke. There can't be an explanation for this and of all people John McCain. |
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| mkriss5681 |
Quote: Originally posted by spankysxxx
The Republicans must be broke. There can't be an explanation for this and of all people John McCain. |
:jj: It's obvious why John McCain is doing this. Almost 70% of America has abandon Bush. The only people Bush has are the wealthiest 10% of Americans. These are the people McCain needs to raise money from.
McCain cares more about the richest 10% and their money than he does about our Vets. Who is the real Elitist? |
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