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Economy Grows For Second Straight Quarter
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| Economy Grows For Second Straight Quarter
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| VacateTheWord |
Much to the chagrin of Liberals everywhere -
Fragile economy improves but not out of woods yet
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The fragile economy improved slightly at the beginning of the year and could grow a bit stronger in the current quarter as extra cash from tax rebates spurs people to buy more. Still, it's not out of danger yet.
The economy grew at a 1 percent annualized rate in the first quarter, helped in large part by stronger sales of U.S. products overseas, the Commerce Department reported Thursday.
That was a tad stronger than the government's previous estimate of 0.9 percent growth for the quarter. And, the new reading was better than the anemic 0.6 percent growth rate logged in the final three months of last year.
Nonetheless, the two quarters together marked the slowest growth in five years. The economy has been bruised by housing, credit and financial problems. That led consumers during the first quarter alone to boost their spending at the weakest pace since the 2001 recession.
However, the government's tax rebates, the centerpiece of a $168 billion stimulus package, have helped to energize consumer spending in recent months, which should bolster the overall economy's performance in the April-to-June quarter.
The Federal Reserve, which on Wednesday halted a nearly yearlong rate-cutting campaign because of concerns about inflation, specifically credited "some firming in household spending" with a role in keeping the economy expanding.
As the stimulative effects of the tax rebates fades, though, some analysts worry that the economy could hit another rough patch.
"The economy is far from out of the woods," said Nigel Gault, chief U.S. economist at Global Insight. He predicted second- and third-quarter economic growth would benefit from the tax rebates but he believes there will be a "relapse" in the final quarter of this year as the effect of the rebates wanes.
On Wall Street, stocks slumped. The Dow Jones industrials were down more than 200 points in afternoon trading.
Other reports issued Thursday showed weak spots in the economy.
New applications filed for unemployment insurance held steady at a high level of 384,000, the Labor Department said. The number of people continuing to draw unemployment benefits climbed to 3.1 million, the most in more than four years. Employers have cut jobs each month so far this year as they cope with fallout from high energy prices, the housing slump and harder-to-get credit.
The National Association of Realtors, meanwhile, reported that sales of previously owned homes rose in May, although prices continued to drop. Sales went up 2 percent to a pace of 4.99 million units. The median sales price, however, fell to $208,600, down 6.3 percent from a year ago. That was the fifth biggest year-over-year price decline in records that go back to 1999. Many analysts think housing prices need to stop falling or start rising for the ailing housing market to get back its health.
Fallout from the housing crisis continued to be a big drag on first-quarter growth: builders slashed spending on housing projects by 24.6 percent on an annualized basis. That wasn't as bad, though, as the 25.2 percent cut made in the fourth quarter, the most in 26 years.
For now the second quarter is shaping up much better than earlier estimates of little, if any, growth for the period. At one point, some thought the economy might contract. Some second-quarter projections now range from more than 1 percent to just shy of 2 percent.
That still would be considered sluggish. More normal activity would be along the lines of a 2.5 percent to 3 percent pace.
The Fed may be able to leave interest rates where they are for a while so that the economy can gain traction. However, some believe the Fed might be forced to boost rates later this year to fend off inflation.
Others think the Fed won't start to push up rates until next year. Either way, the next move on rates is likely to be up, not down, analysts said. The timing will hinge on how energy and food prices and other inflation barometers behave in the months ahead.
An inflation measure linked to the gross domestic product report showed "core" prices, which strip out food and energy costs, increased at a rate of 2.3 percent in the first quarter. That's up from a previous estimate and outside the Fed's comfort zone.
There's been a lot of talk about whether the country has fallen into a recession. The new GDP statistics did not meet what analysts consider one definition of a recession -- two straight quarters of shrinking economic activity. But that didn't happen in the last recession in 2001, either. And other barometers -- nationwide job losses and shriveling paychecks -- have pointed to a possible downturn. Such a determination is made by an academic panel, usually well after the fact.
"The first half will be more difficult than the second half," Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez told The Associated Press. Although "the predictions were so dire," the first quarter's performance shows "how resilient our economy is by being able to show growth in the face of challenges."
The Fed hopes its powerful series of rate reductions and the government's stimulus will lift the country out of the doldrums over time.
"By the first half of next year we look for the underlying health of the economy to finally improve," said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at RBS Greenwich Capital. "But for the balance of this year, it looks like the economy is trapped in a subpar growth pace but not a recession -- economic limbo."
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080626/economy.html?.v=14 |
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| mingmen |
| say what say what |
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| patcracker |
| This is important news. I think you should make two threads about it. |
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| ArivacaCharlie |
A boost caused by the presumption of an Obama Presidency.
I told you fuckers he was the man!
:bigclap::bigclap::bigclap: |
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| mr wrong |
Thanks Democrat led congress!!!
Waits. |
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| ArivacaCharlie |
:lol:
Poor Vacate. Being PWNed by his own thread again! |
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| NoName |
| As the middle class becomes the lower class and the haves, have more. |
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| Spinboy |
That's great news. I often wonder where consumer confidence would be in the liberal media outlets didn't push their recessionary outlook so much.
Being able to avert a recession with the issues that we are having in the economy shows how resilient our great country is. |
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| NoName |
Quote: Originally posted by Spinboy
That's great news. I often wonder where consumer confidence would be in the liberal media outlets didn't push their recessionary outlook so much.
Being able to avert a recession with the issues that we are having in the economy shows how resilient our great country is. |
You are blaming the media for the recession? |
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| ArivacaCharlie |
Quote: Originally posted by Spinboy
That's great news. I often wonder where consumer confidence would be in the liberal media outlets didn't push their recessionary outlook so much.
Being able to avert a recession with the issues that we are having in the economy shows how resilient our great country is. |
The fact that we seemed to have survived Bush (so far) is a greater testament to our Country's resiliency. |
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| Billyfromsphily |
Quote: Originally posted by ArivacaCharlie
The fact that we seemed to have survived Bush (so far) is a greater testament to our Country's resiliency. |
And only 5 and a half months to go |
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| Spinboy |
Quote: Originally posted by NoName
You are blaming the media for the recession? |
Not entirely, but I think they are a factor. I bet if you polled Americans right now, over 50% would say that we are in a recession even though we haven't had even one quarter of negative GDP growth.
I tend to live by the great quote by Charles Swindoll:
"I am convinced that life is ten percent what happens to me and ninety percent how I react to it."
If more Americans believed this, they wouldn't have to rely on the government to bail them out time & time again. |
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| mingmen |
Quote: Originally posted by Spinboy
"I am convinced that life is ten percent what happens to me and ninety percent how I react to it."
If more Americans believed this, they wouldn't have to rely on the government to bail them out time & time again. |
iraq had ties to al quaeda :rolleyes: |
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| ArivacaCharlie |
Quote: Originally posted by Spinboy
Not entirely, but I think they are a factor. I bet if you polled Americans right now, over 50% would say that we are in a recession even though we haven't had even one quarter of negative GDP growth.
I tend to live by the great quote by Charles Swindoll:
"I am convinced that life is ten percent what happens to me and ninety percent how I react to it."
If more Americans believed this, they wouldn't have to rely on the government to bail them out time & time again. |
This is a case where nobody is expecting a government bail-out. They are just expecting the government to fix it's fuck-ups. |
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| uhohhotdog |
[QUOTE=VacateTheWord][B]Much to the chagrin of Liberals everywhere -
See, it's shit like that which makes people hate you. You want to put up an article that shows the economy has had SLIGHT growth, and then you tag with a statement that implies liberals don't want the economy to do well. Who doesn't want the economy to do well? It's so bizarre, your mind. Even though I think you're a right-wing crackpot who probably fucked his sister at some point, I still accept the fact that you WANT the economy to do well. The only difference between us is that I want to elect people that change it, you want to elect a guy that wants to cut taxes for the richerst 1% of the country.
Answer me this question, and I'll leave you alone: Why do you support making the richest people in the country richer?
Take another glug of moonshine, and let me know. |
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| VacateTheWord |
Quote: Originally posted by patcracker
This is important news. I think you should make two threads about it. |
I don't know why that happened. Didn't mean to clog up the board. |
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| VacateTheWord |
Quote: Originally posted by uhohhotdog
[QUOTE=VacateTheWord][B]Much to the chagrin of Liberals everywhere -
See, it's shit like that which makes people hate you. You want to put up an article that shows the economy has had SLIGHT growth, and then you tag with a statement that implies liberals don't want the economy to do well. Who doesn't want the economy to do well? It's so bizarre, your mind. Even though I think you're a right-wing crackpot who probably fucked his sister at some point, I still accept the fact that you WANT the economy to do well. The only difference between us is that I want to elect people that change it, you want to elect a guy that wants to cut taxes for the richerst 1% of the country.
Answer me this question, and I'll leave you alone: Why do you support making the richest people in the country richer?
Take another glug of moonshine, and let me know. |
Oh really? Then you obviously have never seen an Obama surrogate or any other Democrat on the news talking about how the economy is "in the tank" or other such language. The truth is that economic growth has slowed but even in the home mortage "apocolypse" (another Liberal canard) and high gas prices the economy is doing well.
To your question - I do not support income redistribution and never will. Why should people who earn more money than the average person be penalized for doing so? Can you answer that question?
Go. |
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| harley-davidson |
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
Oh really? Then you obviously have never seen an Obama surrogate or any other Democrat on the news talking about how the economy is "in the tank" or other such language. The truth is that economic growth has slowed but even in the home mortage "apocolypse" (another Liberal canard) and high gas prices the economy is doing well.
To your question - I do not support income redistribution and never will. Why should people who earn more money than the average person be penalized for doing so? Can you answer that question?
Go. |
Why don't you explain why someone digging a fucking ditch for a living should be taxed @ 30-32% on their say 40k a year while Bill gates pays a 15% tax on Billions ? |
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| mingmen |
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
The truth is that economic growth has slowed but even in the home mortage "apocolypse" (another Liberal canard) and high gas prices the economy is doing well. |
:lol: |
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| Spinboy |
Quote: Originally posted by uhohhotdog
[QUOTE=VacateTheWord][B]
Answer me this question, and I'll leave you alone: Why do you support making the richest people in the country richer? |
The top 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90% combined. In your world, how much more should they pay?
The reason why I support equality when it comes to taxation is because you shouldn't be penalized for making more money in a country that was founded on capitalism.
Do you really think that its fair for someone who works their ass off to get in a higher tax bracket to pay proportiately more than some lazy ass that sits around all day and does nothing for himself or society?
Are you familiar with today's progressive tax system? It would seem that the wealthy pay more than their fair share.
Individuals
$0 - $6,000 - 10%
$6,000-$25,050 - 15%
$25,050-$136,750 - 25%
$136,750 & Above - 33%
Married - Joint Filing
$0 - $12,000 - 10%
$12,000 - $45,200 - 15%
$45,200 - $166,500 - 25%
$166,500 & Above - 33% |
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| harley-davidson |
Quote: Originally posted by Spinboy
The top 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90% combined. In your world, how much more should they pay?
The reason why I support equality when it comes to taxation is because you shouldn't be penalized for making more money in a country that was founded on capitalism.
Do you really think that its fair for someone who works their ass off to get in a higher tax bracket to pay proportiately more than some lazy ass that sits around all day and does nothing for himself or society?
Are you familiar with today's progressive tax system? It would seem that the wealthy pay more than their fair share.
Individuals
$0 - $6,000 - 10%
$6,000-$25,050 - 15%
$25,050-$136,750 - 25%
$136,750 & Above - 33%
Married - Joint Filing
$0 - $12,000 - 10%
$12,000 - $45,200 - 15%
$45,200 - $166,500 - 25%
$166,500 & Above - 33% |
The bottom incomes on that chart are upper middle class...not wealthy
| Quote: The tax rate on qualified dividends is 5% or 15% (depending on the individual's income tax rate). If the individual has a regular income tax rate of 25% or higher, then the qualified dividend tax rate is 15%. |
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| pluckinstrings |
Quote: Originally posted by VacateTheWord
Why should people who earn more money than the average person be penalized for doing so? Can you answer that question?
:pissr: Go. |
On Your Mark! :rolleyes:
The first problem is the word 'penalized'. Get out of that SELFISH mind set. Wouldn't it be great to have a prosperous nation where everyone benefits? RHETORICAL.
Even if they paid more, it wouldn't affect their day to day lives like it currently does for the middle class and the poor.
If I was making millions and millions of dollars I wouldn't mind paying a little bit more so someone a little less fortunate could have a better chance at being prosperous. And when the word 'more' is thrown out, all it really means is going BACK to how the taxes were in the 90's. Seemed to work just fine back then.
Currently as it stands, which group feels the affects of paying taxes more? The rich, middle class or the poor? And when we are talking about 'rich', I'm talking about the people who make $250k+ per year. |
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| Spinboy |
Quote: Originally posted by harley-davidson
Why don't you explain why someone digging a fucking ditch for a living should be taxed @ 30-32% on their say 40k a year while Bill gates pays a 15% tax on Billions ? |
The ditch digger doesn't pay 30-32%, so let's get that straight.
Also, are you talking about the same Bill Gates that is basically donating all of his money ($58 Billion) to charity. I guess with your liberal mentality, that money should be given to the goverment for them to waste. |
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| harley-davidson |
Quote: Originally posted by Spinboy
The ditch digger doesn't pay 30-32%, so let's get that straight.
Also, are you talking about the same Bill Gates that is basically donating all of his money ($58 Billion) to charity. I guess with your liberal mentality, that money should be given to the goverment for them to waste. |
What the fuck does Gates giving his money away to charity have to do with taxation you stupid fuck ? |
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| pluckinstrings |
Quote: Originally posted by Spinboy
Do you really think that its fair for someone who works their ass off to get in a higher tax bracket to pay proportiately more than some lazy ass that sits around all day and does nothing for himself or society? |
That is interesting... Just an observation on how we are different I guess. When I picture the top 1%, I picture them as being CEO's, Gov Officials, Actors and 'old money' families.
And then when I think of the middle class and the poor, I think of the blue collar, food services, physical labor, farming, tradesmen, customer service, and many others...
I wouldn't necessarily characterize them as "some lazy ass that sits around all day and does nothing for himself or society".
You Know You're a Republican When... you're barely middle-class yourself but support tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% of Americans because you think welfare recipients are driving Cadillac’s. And then you believe that only Democrats were killed when that bridge fell into the Mississippi or in New Orleans during Katrina. :bigup: |
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| Pete From PA |
| The stock market has reacted to this glorious news... :rolleyes: |
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| VacateTheWord |
Quote: Originally posted by Spinboy
The ditch digger doesn't pay 30-32%, so let's get that straight.
Also, are you talking about the same Bill Gates that is basically donating all of his money ($58 Billion) to charity. I guess with your liberal mentality, that money should be given to the goverment for them to waste. |
I forget what the name of the book was, but the donation habits of Conservatives and Liberals was studied a while back, and as it turns out Conservatives are more generous with their disposable income than Liberals are.
That aside, I won't echo the facts that have already been presented - the top income earners already pay the overwhelming majority of federal taxes. |
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| Spinboy |
Quote: Originally posted by harley-davidson
What the fuck does Gates giving his money away to charity have to do with taxation you stupid fuck ? |
You said Bill Gates pays 15% on his billions & I responded that he is donating those billions to charity....would you rather he be giving that money to the government or charitable causes?
I know if my taxes get increased one of the first things I will have to cut back on are charitable donations. Good thing I started my own charity last year and raised $36,000 in 2007 to cancer research :aw: |
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| Spinboy |
Quote: Originally posted by pluckinstrings
That is interesting... Just an observation on how we are different I guess. When I picture the top 1%, I picture them as being CEO's, Gov Officials, Actors and 'old money' families.
And then when I think of the middle class and the poor, I think of the blue collar, food services, physical labor, farming, tradesmen, customer service, and many others...
I wouldn't necessarily characterize them as "some lazy ass that sits around all day and does nothing for himself or society".
You Know You're a Republican When... you're barely middle-class yourself but support tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% of Americans because you think welfare recipients are driving Cadillac’s. And then you believe that only Democrats were killed when that bridge fell into the Mississippi or in New Orleans during Katrina. :bigup: |
Maybe I was over generalizing, but you get the point. I didn't mean to put down blue collar workers that work there tails off for our great country.
You Know You're a Republican When... you're barely middle-class yourself but support tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% of Americans because you believe with hard work, you can become one of those 1%.
You also do realize that Bush lowered taxes for every income level, right? |
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| uhohhotdog |
[QUOTE=VacateTheWord][B]Oh really? Then you obviously have never seen an Obama surrogate or any other Democrat on the news talking about how the economy is "in the tank" or other such language. The truth is that economic growth has slowed but even in the home mortage "apocolypse" (another Liberal canard) and high gas prices the economy is doing well.
To your question - I do not support income redistribution and never will. Why should people who earn more money than the average person be penalized for doing so? Can you answer that question?
It' called humanity.
I'm not a religeous guys, but here goes.
Lord, please let Vacate the Word lose his home. I don't wish him physical pain, but I just hope he loses his home. Once he does that, he will see the home mortage "crisis" is very real.
You need to get out more. Look what's going on in the country. Times are bad. And it's because of people like YOU. You are a shameful person, and I can't wait until your ilk is wiped from the earth. (It's coming by the way, the end of your kind) |
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| JTProcess |
Quote: Originally posted by Spinboy
I guess with your liberal mentality, that money should be given to the goverment for them to waste. |
the reality is though it's the middle class' money that's given to the government to waste.
and why aren't you mad at the REPUBLICAN DOMINATED government for wasting all that money... I thought conservatives were uhh... "conservative" ? |
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| Spinboy |
Quote: Originally posted by JTProcess
the reality is though it's the middle class' money that's given to the government to waste.
and why aren't you mad at the REPUBLICAN DOMINATED government for wasting all that money... I thought conservatives were uhh... "conservative" ? |
People making less that $103,000 pay less than 10% of the total federal taxes...I'm not sure what your point is.
I am upset at the current administrations spending habits. I would much rather go towards a smaller government mindset. The one thing I do know is that there's a chance of a government spending decrease with McCain & there's no chance with Obama. It will be tax and spend all over again. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by harley-davidson
What the fuck does Gates giving his money away to charity have to do with taxation you stupid fuck ? |
You are confusing income tax on wages and taxes on investments Investment income (capital gains, dividends, ect) are taxed at a much lower rate than normal income, such as wages. For most people of that level of wealth, (as Gates) the majority of the money they make is not considered wages, but investment income. If you raise the tax rates on investment income, investment will decrease significantly.
All the more reason to scrap the entire system, and out the fairtax in place. www.fairtax.org. The more you spend the more you pay in taxes. YOU control how much taxes you ultimately pay, and NO ONE is charged the tax on the necessities of life. |
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| NickNuke |
GM & Citi downgrades SLAMMM Wall St.
$170 OIL?
Consumer Confidence Plummets
Home Prices down 15.3%
Dow at 21 month low
Rate cuts come to a screeeeching halt
Welcome to the worst June since the Great Depression!!!!
Chicken Little once cried out the sky is falling the sky is falling! Now he is saying the markets are falling, recession is coming, and why the heck should we keep our money invested? Should we listen?
The DOW and the S&P are down 9.4% and 8.4% respectively in June alone, unemployment is at its highest since 2004, we're seeing record oil and food prices, falling home prices, and inflation approaching 5%.
NO, THE SKY IS NOT FALLING!!!!
Remember when gas hit $4 a gallon, and how we all complained. Boy, wouldn't I love to see those prices again!
Where are we now?
The housing slump, the credit crunch, and a spike in energy prices, are causing an already weak US economy to continue to struggle.
Consumer sentiment has tumbled, reflecting higher energy prices, declining housing prices and softer labor markets. It's begun to take a toll on consumer spending, which has slowed recently.
The effects of the housing bubble, oil and commodity prices will likely to continue to exert a drag on economic activity for some time.
Inflation expectations in the household have risen sharply due to the accelerating rise in gasoline and food prices.
The outlook for the US economy remains uncertain, and may prove contrary to the Fed's belief in a modest pickup in the second half of the year.
Household net worth declined in the 4th quarter for the first time since 2003. Pressed by falling home prices and equity prices, these declines have intensified in the 1st quarter 2008.
In May, the unemployement rate popped to 5.5%.
So now that we've thrown the kitchen sink at you, there actually is light at the end of the tunnel. If history is any guide, prolonged downturns can be expected twice a decade. In the past 10 bear markets, the following year the market has typically shown an increase in returns of over 10%. We know market timing doesn't work. Guessing the ins and outs is a fools game. Well diversified portfolios with a proper risk-adjusted asset allocation stand the test of volatility in all markets. Even though some stocks may decline, other asset classes pick up the slack and limit the downside.
These risks were identified and measures were implemented well before the bears came out of hibernation. The worried individuals are the ones that fail to plan. These investors learn the hard way that a proper asset allocation is the key in a bear market.
Outlook:
Dollar needs to be King again: ECB (European Cent. Bank) raising rates, Fed needs to as well to stabilize the dollar. If dollar is stabilized, then oil should as well.
Financial markets "spanked" the Fed by not raising rates. Market is giving the Fed cover to raise rates. Likely to happen soon.
Some inflation is good: high gas and oil changes consumer behavior and becomes vogue.
China markets are off over 50%, as India, Spain, etc, are lower from highs and are dealing with their inflation rate by raising interest rates now.
We've been here before. . .
Irrational Behavior???
The yield on General Electric is higher than a 10 year US Treasury Bond.
Dow is down approximately 12% year to date; This is normal, not unreasonable.
Valuation: Stocks are not expensive; trading at approximately 15x (historically low).
Existing home sales have risen the last 3 months, including a 2% rise in May.
GDP (Gross Domestic Product) was revised upward.
The stock market is grappled in fear, not fact!
There will always be bumps along the road, but the ones prepared will be able to sail their ship out of the storm albeit with a sprinkle in their face. |
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| BuddyChrist |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
You are confusing income tax on wages and taxes on investments Investment income (capital gains, dividends, ect) are taxed at a much lower rate than normal income, such as wages. For most people of that level of wealth, (as Gates) the majority of the money they make is not considered wages, but investment income. If you raise the tax rates on investment income, investment will decrease significantly. |
This is a load of crap that is oft repeated, but has absolutely no empirical support.
If that were true, no one would ever invest in bonds, because interest income is taxed at the regular income tax rate, which is higher than the CapGains rate.
As it is, the bond market dwarfs the equity market in size.
Edit: I can only post every 30 minutes, so I've highlighted the below because you obviously have trouble with reading comprehension, given your "basic economics" statement:
In theory your argument sounds great, but in practice it gives massive income tax breaks to partners in large limited partnerships.....like investment banks & hedge funds.
The empirical literature is massive in the corporate finance field......no luck for your argument.
There is also a shitload of macroeconomic literature that shows no correlation between tax rates and economic growth.
Edit: This is why people do empirical research instead of hitting the ground running with unproven economic theories. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by BuddyChrist
This is a load of crap that is oft repeated, but has absolutely no empirical support.
If that were true, no one would ever invest in bonds, because interest income is taxed at the regular income tax rate, which is higher than the CapGains rate.
As it is, the bond market dwarfs the equity market in size.
In theory your argument sounds great, but in practice it gives massive income tax breaks to partners in large limited partnerships.....like investment banks & hedge funds.
The empirical literature is massive in the corporate finance field......no luck for your argument.
There is also a shitload of macroeconomic literature that shows no correlation between tax rates and economic growth.
htfh |
Look at what happens when the capital gains tax rate is decreased or increased. Its BASIC economics...when you LOWER the price of something.. (taxes being the PRICE of investing) you get MORE of it. WHen you increase the price, (higher taxes) you get LESS of it. THis isn't brain surgery.
People invest in bonds for numerous reasons...diversity, security, tax reasons, (many bonds are tax free at some or all levels) risk aversion level.... Your statement on bonds is basically meaningless when looking at the entire picture.
There are REAL WORLD examples of lower marginal tax rates, and economic growth.... they are called the 1960's, 1980's, and the past 5 years (EVEN when considering the recent slowdown) The WORST thing we can do is raise taxes in the face of an economic slowdown... |
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| Rush Has AIDS |
I would buy Nick's post if we are to believe that this cycle we are going through right now is "natural".
But we know now that it is anything but natural. It is being manipulated. We have speculators driving up the price of oil. (I wish those fuckers playing on E*Trade would take delivery of 10,000 barrels of light sweet crude they "bought")
Even if Big Oil drilled the 63 million acres that they control, but won't touch, it won't make a difference. Over the last two months people are driving less, using less fuel, and even the Sauds are going to pump more oil.
Yet the price keeps going up.
This is anything but natural. |
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| Rush Has AIDS |
Quote: Originally posted by NCMike06
Look at what happens when the capital gains tax rate is decreased or increased. Its BASIC economics...when you LOWER the price of something.. (taxes being the PRICE of investing) you get MORE of it. WHen you increase the price, (higher taxes) you get LESS of it. THis isn't brain surgery.
People invest in bonds for numerous reasons...diversity, security, tax reasons, (many bonds are tax free at some or all levels) risk aversion level.... Your statement on bonds is basically meaningless when looking at the entire picture.
There are REAL WORLD examples of lower marginal tax rates, and economic growth.... they are called the 1960's, 1980's, and the past 5 years (EVEN when considering the recent slowdown) The WORST thing we can do is raise taxes in the face of an economic slowdown... |
But you can not lower taxes during a war. It has never been done until this administration, and we are seeing why it's not supposed to be done.
When there is a war, taxes are supposed to be raised. The taxes help pay for the war. That is supposed to be the duty of the citizens who are not fighting.
That's supposed to be part of the sacrifice we make for the greater good, and for the cause. That's what supporting the troops is all about. Displaying the magnet on your SUV does not help the troops (unless the money raised goes to pay for the war...hmmmm....), putting your money where your mouth is, and paying more taxes, is what supporting the troops is all about.
Borrowing the money from our enemies is not helping matters. Either we have higher taxes now, or we have much higher taxes later. Eventually we have to pay for the war.
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| acefree |
then why did bush waste money on the stimulus package?
i know the dems did too, but we all expect them to waste. the reps however, run on fiscal responsibiity. |
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| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by Spinboy
Not entirely, but I think they are a factor. I bet if you polled Americans right now, over 50% would say that we are in a recession even though we haven't had even one quarter of negative GDP growth.
I tend to live by the great quote by Charles Swindoll:
"I am convinced that life is ten percent what happens to me and ninety percent how I react to it."
If more Americans believed this, they wouldn't have to rely on the government to bail them out time & time again. |
What the hell are you talking about?? You people sure have some fucked up ideas, don't you?? Your philosophy is pretend everything's ok and it will be ok. :rolleyes:
Fortunately, most Americans are adults and mature and not scared little pussies like you people.
The economy for all intents and purposes IS in a recession, because people are spending DOUBLE what they did last year for gas, which means that their disposable income has been drastically reduced. Include in that equation the cost for shipping which has gone up, which makes EVERYTHING a bit more expensive, coupled with the WEAKENING dollar which decreases our collective purchasing power, et al....
We are in a fucking deep shithole mess, and the endless black hole that is Iraq transfering over $10 billion from the Taxpayers every month to a few wealthy corporations and contractors and defense manufacturers, and you get a much clearer picture of where we are now. Reality doesn't work the way you people would like it to. Too bad, but the rest of the world doesn't buy into your delusions and ardent wishes....
You can thank Republican pushed deregulation of many different industries for the gutter our nation's in now. |
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| NCMike06 |
Quote: Originally posted by Rush Has AIDS
But you can not lower taxes during a war. It has never been done until this administration, and we are seeing why it's not supposed to be done. |
OK...so lets get something straight... YOU are admitting that we are at war, correct??
Secondly, income to the government has DRASTICALLY increased since the taxes were cut. Understand? The economy has GROWN significantly since the taxes were cut.
The problem has been on the spending side, with runaway entitlement spending, pork spending out the ass, and new programs that will never end. THATS where the problem lies.
Quote: Originally posted by Rush Has AIDS
When there is a war, taxes are supposed to be raised. The taxes help pay for the war. That is supposed to be the duty of the citizens who are not fighting. |
WHen those taxes RISE, and the economy really goes into recession, what are you going to do then??
Quote: Originally posted by Rush Has AIDS
That's supposed to be part of the sacrifice we make for the greater good, and for the cause. That's what supporting the troops is all about. Displaying the magnet on your SUV does not help the troops (unless the money raised goes to pay for the war...hmmmm....), putting your money where your mouth is, and paying more taxes, is what supporting the troops is all about.help pay for the war. That is supposed to be the duty of the citizens who are not fighting. |
How about we cut some spending, and sacrifice that way?? You would rather have taxes increase, people lose their jobs, and pound your chest because of the 'sacrifice' made??...when in reality, we can lower taxes, enhance the economy, and increase tax revenue...which is supposedly your goal to begin with.
Quote: Originally posted by Rush Has AIDS
Borrowing the money from our enemies is not helping matters. Either we have higher taxes now, or we have much higher taxes later. Eventually we have to pay for the war. |
So lets start drilling NOW...lets start building nuclear and other energy plants NOW, lets remove the barriers to real alternative energy NOW....
Hurry and hide again.... lets see the mult come out to play ..... |
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| artechba |
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| Rafterman |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
What the hell are you talking about?? You people sure have some fucked up ideas, don't you?? Your philosophy is pretend everything's ok and it will be ok. :rolleyes:
Fortunately, most Americans are adults and mature and not scared little pussies like you people.
The economy for all intents and purposes IS in a recession, because people are spending DOUBLE what they did last year for gas, which means that their disposable income has been drastically reduced. Include in that equation the cost for shipping which has gone up, which makes EVERYTHING a bit more expensive, coupled with the WEAKENING dollar which decreases our collective purchasing power, et al....
We are in a fucking deep shithole mess, and the endless black hole that is Iraq transfering over $10 billion from the Taxpayers every month to a few wealthy corporations and contractors and defense manufacturers, and you get a much clearer picture of where we are now. Reality doesn't work the way you people would like it to. Too bad, but the rest of the world doesn't buy into your delusions and ardent wishes....
You can thank Republican pushed deregulation of many different industries for the gutter our nation's in now. |
:bigup:
As I stated earlier people don't give a fuck what Wall Street is saying when they can see Main Street going down the proverbial shitter. |
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| bigcat07 |
| turdthread with no basis in reality :mad: |
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| artechba |
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