|
Note: This is a Text only archive. Go directly to the real forum.
Hot topic - welfare reform
- Click HERE to go to the original thread with graphics
banner
| Hot topic - welfare reform
- Click HERE to go to the original thread with graphics
|
| ne0shell |
Given the new budget takes quite a bit out of welfare we can expect to see some rough going in the cities most used to getting it.
I propose that all able bodied welfare candidates be inducted into the military in exchange for public support or pay back the welfare in some govt position. Of course there would need to be daycare and so on but paying people to have babies and sit at home sure as fuck isnt working. |
|
|
| yellowcakesolid |
Any talk of welfare reform needs to start with Haliburton and the practice of awarding no-bid, billion dollar contracts. Shit, dude, welfare ain’t about a block of cheese anymore. It’s about getting a billion with a capital B, baby.
Now, on to your idea. I must disagree with forced military service for two reasons. One, you can’t force people into military service simply because they’re poor. Two, and more importantly, your armed forces should only consist of people who want to be there. These guys have to count on each other. The last thing you want is some guy whose going to say, “Fuck it. I’m just here to pay off a loan and get my ass home. I don’t give a shit about any of these other guys.”
As for some other type of service, this is known as crowding out. Crowding out occurs when the government performs a job that the private sector could do. It’s normally frowned upon and seen as unfair competition. Some small business owner is running a shop, and all of sudden the government comes in and competes against him. The government, however, gets to pay its employees with tax dollars. So the shop owner is paying his competition to put him out of business.
To be fair, I did think about something similar to your idea. I figured forced service would help develop a sense of service, build social capital, and help develop a national identity. Sadly, I figured it would be too politically charged, however. For example, republicans would probably see forced service in an environmental group as an attempt by the Democratic Party to brainwash young voters. |
|
|
| Fa-Fa-Fo-Ha |
In NYC we have a program called "Work Fare" which makes able bodied welfare recipients work. They make them pick up garbage at parks, mop subway cars etc. At the same time they give them training to make a transition to a real job.
I too disagree with forcing anyone into the military. |
|
|
| ne0shell |
| revisit this when they start drafting people again. |
|
|
| Abba |
Interesting concepts. One thing that's important to realise is that forced service is actually not that bad. Israel does it. Of course, their situation is a little different, but I really don't hear about Israel's looming gang problem.
The better solution would be a massive public works program, nationwide and federal. Give 18 yr olds the option of either military svc. or Public svc. A mandatory 2 yr program for EVERYONE, regardless of wealth, race, etc...
Maybe I'm myopic about it, but I certainly do feel like the newer generations are so completely apathetic that the few who actually do care are only the affluent who's families have an agenda, namely, screwing everyone else.
By instilling a sense of national pride in everyone when they're young, we can solve so many of our social problems. It might actually make us a melting pot instead of a salad bowl, plus the country would look so much better.
I for one wouldn't mind paying 1990's taxes if it meant that the less skilled could work and benefit the public. |
|
|
| POKERinTHEback |
I don't think force service is a bad idea. I do think they should have the option of being non-combat outside the theater of war.
I think that most of the people on welfare are degenerates. My city built 500 units at 120K for welfare and low income people to live in. They had to pay $250 a month to rent or $450 to own and to build equity. On top of the low price, they have to refrain from all illegal drug activities and have the place inspected once a month. If they broke any of the rules a board of 7 people decides if they should be evicted. As of right now, they have 30 of the 500 filled and they have been open for 3 years. It's sad. I applied for a unit and was refected because I have a four year degree.
How long are we going to allow people to do nothing and get so much? |
|
|
| jlohlinger |
| It's time they end welfare of every kind period. If you didn't earn it, you shouldn't get it. Why can't we give Social Darwinism a shot for a hundred years and see how that works out. |
|
|
| Abba |
Quote: Originally posted by jlohlinger
It's time they end welfare of every kind period. If you didn't earn it, you shouldn't get it. Why can't we give Social Darwinism a shot for a hundred years and see how that works out. |
I'll tell you why not. For some people, the cards are stacked against them from the get go. There are single mom's who are white too who are on welfare. You can't just sweep aside everyone who's had a shitty lot in life. That's unAmerican. What we should do instead is monitor what happens to the fund we dole out.
Instead of upping the dollar amount everytime you shit out a kid, let the recipient know right off the bat that more kids= the same money. Also, you have a time limit. 4 years if you plan on getting your dumb ass an education. We'll give you a stipend to live and day care while you're in school. Furthermore, you have to keep your grades up, or else goodbye welfare check.
2 years if you want to work. Same thing, monthly stipent for living expenses, day care, and job training. If you stop or don't show up, goodbye check.
We always have to offer people a way to help themselves. Making sure that the money isn't squandered would create a population that's hardworking and knows the consequences of failure. |
|
|
| jlohlinger |
Quote: Originally posted by Abba
I'll tell you why not. For some people, the cards are stacked against them from the get go. There are single mom's who are white too who are on welfare. You can't just sweep aside everyone who's had a shitty lot in life. That's unAmerican. What we should do instead is monitor what happens to the fund we dole out.
Instead of upping the dollar amount everytime you shit out a kid, let the recipient know right off the bat that more kids= the same money. Also, you have a time limit. 4 years if you plan on getting your dumb ass an education. We'll give you a stipend to live and day care while you're in school. Furthermore, you have to keep your grades up, or else goodbye welfare check.
2 years if you want to work. Same thing, monthly stipent for living expenses, day care, and job training. If you stop or don't show up, goodbye check.
We always have to offer people a way to help themselves. Making sure that the money isn't squandered would create a population that's hardworking and knows the consequences of failure. |
Offering people opportunities to do for themselves, and giving them a hand out that only provides incentive to check their mail are two different things. I was never handed a goddamn thing in my entire life, I couldn't afford to go to college because I helped support my single mom, and put my brother through college. I taught my self every aspect of construction from the ground up, and have made a good life for myself, by myself. If welfare continues to be a free check with no penalty, or incentive to remove yourself from the program, it will always be a disaster on both a social level, and the bullshit corporate level. |
|
|
| ne0shell |
Quote: Originally posted by POKERinTHEback
I don't think force service is a bad idea. I do think they should have the option of being non-combat outside the theater of war.
I think that most of the people on welfare are degenerates. My city built 500 units at 120K for welfare and low income people to live in. They had to pay $250 a month to rent or $450 to own and to build equity. On top of the low price, they have to refrain from all illegal drug activities and have the place inspected once a month. If they broke any of the rules a board of 7 people decides if they should be evicted. As of right now, they have 30 of the 500 filled and they have been open for 3 years. It's sad. I applied for a unit and was refected because I have a four year degree.
How long are we going to allow people to do nothing and get so much? |
I once got laid off during a bad time for tech. Waited for unemployment which didnt even cover my rent when it came and finally broke down and went to see about food stamps. Of course the nice black laides down there were all over my ass about why didnt I have a job and wouldnt let me have any help. Meanwhile the lobby was full of healthy minorites getting rubber stamped. I'm glad I didnt get anything though, it just pisses me off that I pay so much in taxes to support so many people who just dont want to work. Yeah I'm generalizing, so what? I know people need help from time to time, making it a way of life is just idiotic. Spend the money improving schools and shut down the govt drug trade. Theres a set of people in the world who WANT it this way - not the people on welfare either, the people who profit by taking society down to 3rd world conditions. |
|
|
| kali |
Quote: Originally posted by Fa-Fa-Fo-Ha
In NYC we have a program called "Work Fare" which makes able bodied welfare recipients work. They make them pick up garbage at parks, mop subway cars etc. At the same time they give them training to make a transition to a real job.
|
yeah, the reason that sort of idea is good is because when people don't work they feel bad about themselves. When you work and do something it's good for your confidence.
And that's good for the rest of us. |
|
|
| jimbo cowd |
Quote: Originally posted by ne0shell
I propose that all able bodied welfare candidates be inducted into the military in exchange for public support or pay back the welfare in some govt position. |
At what capacity would you like them to perform military service? The Army has already lowered education and aptitude standards for new recruits. How do you propose to fit in the wide range of backgrounds of welfare recipients? Not that your idea is without merit, but I can’t see why the burden of U.S. poverty should need to be handled by the military. Are you also suggesting that State’s rights granted in the 1996 welfare forms be repealed? While I would agree that consistency standards (for implementation and performance evaluation) for welfare programs need to be better defined at the federal level, I can’t imagine that we do a complete 180 and put this burden solely on the Federal government. Again, I think your idea has some merit, but it is definitely not a solution. |
|
|
| Ironpirate |
| Hey I have an idea, lets give government money to lazy pieces of shit people so they can live in a little trailer and have 5 babies and live off the government for ever. Sound fair? Oh nevermind we already do that. Some people really do need help but majority are just lazy, crazy, drug addicts, and pos's. Less money for them the better. When people that have been working and get laid off its hard for them to get money. Shit needs fixing. There should be a time on it also. |
|
|
| clonetrooper |
| Welfare should be there as a catch but there should be a limit. You need to doing something to better yourself and you need to show that you are trying to get off the program. There should be a 2 year limit on getting welfare recepits. I think 2 years is enough time to find a job. |
|
|
| ne0shell |
Quote: Originally posted by jimbo cowd
At what capacity would you like them to perform military service? The Army has already lowered education and aptitude standards for new recruits. |
Exactly. Something like 25% of soldiers in the war right now are illegal aliens who get green cards for serving. Now they are taking recruits 42 years old and reactivating people much older than that. We are running out of warm bodies over there and if we go into Iran / Syria the draft WILL be coming back.
I do think people should be able to get help - for a time. And not allowed to just drop off the welfare rolls and cook meth or whatever. Say give people one year and if they don't get a job then they have another 3 months before they go into the military. For every month they drew a dole they have to show proof of gainfull employment. I dont care where they came from, the military can turn them around, give them a trade and make them into independant people. |
|
|
| DREAD |
NeOshell-
There are NO ILLEGAL ALIENS in the war or our military (at least legally) there are RESIDENT ALIENS who then become naturalized.
Secondly- drafts are bad for the military. The quality of the soldier deteriorates. Look at the horrors of Viet Nam- people fucking off- low morale- drugs- look at out fighting forces now, professional killers who joined on their own will and want.
You introduce draftees and more people will get killed due to incompentence and apathy. Keep it voluntary.
As for welfare- big business welfare exists in the form of loop holes and pork- but that port at least benefits society in the form of jobs- lazy stupid or apathetic persons are of no value or value add to our society- they are a drain. Do we leave them behind? No- I say we exchange them with Mexico-
I'll give you this welfare family of six for four able bodied workers.... |
|
|
| jimbo cowd |
Quote: Originally posted by ne0shell
Exactly. Something like 25% of soldiers in the war right now are illegal aliens who get green cards for serving. Now they are taking recruits 42 years old and reactivating people much older than that. We are running out of warm bodies over there and if we go into Iran / Syria the draft WILL be coming back. |
Just to clarify, I also think the military is NOT the answer. Preserving the greatness of our volunteer military should never be trivialized with flat out misinformation. Plus, I have no clued where you came up with these statistics and probably don’t want to know. Seriously whenever you get information like this feel free to be objective and ask yourself does this make any sense at all. Feel free to think every once in a while. If you choose not to think for yourself then let me leave you with Saturday’s winning Power Ball numbers: 3–6-9-12-15 and the power ball is 2. Congrats! |
|
|
|
|
|
