MMA Thread

Submission of the night already, Charles Olivera. They didn't have a name for that leg-lock, but it almost busted the knee of his opponent. Update: Kenny Florian just called it a calf-lock?.

Phil Davis-----Michael Bisping------Demian Maia,.......Russow

Russow would then face the winner of Kongo/Hunt.

It rings true if Silva retires though. It is all dependent upon that. Chael really feels that way, and he sort of makes sense.
No one would know Silva's reasons for retirement if he did go ahead and vacate the title. Injuries can be worse than anyone knows.Sonnen can have a theory, but retirement doesn't need explanation too deep.
Note: It seemed that Sonnen showed mercy on Stann when he was in the position to deliver knees to the body when they were on the ground. If you compare it with the brutal knees that GSP gave Sera for the TKO, then Sonnen looked like he didn't want to hurt Stann too bad. The choke was the best solution.
Aldo took mercy on Faber when he took the WEC Featherweight title up in Sacramento.

I would disagree that Sonnen actually believes Silva will retire. Does it strike anybody as odd that with a victory tonight Sonnen will be 6-4 in the ufc and in line for a 2nd shot at the title. Not to mention a failed drug test. It just proves that big words will take you just as far as wins. A guy like Russow is now 4-0 in the ufc and can't even get off the prelims

Who the hell told Maia it would be a good idea to become a kickboxer?

Jon Jones should stick to fighting because he sucks on TV

Bisping doing much better than I expected. 3rd round will decide it

it's nice to see Sonnen back in the game seriously...i wonder how his steroid issue is working out?

Who let the fag in?

He wasn't on steroids, he was on the stuff you lack.

he was on T, which i have plenty of at all times...n he's to be applauded for defending the use of Testosterone Replacement Therapy at pro-competition-levels...whatever the ultimate ruling is on his position.

hope sonnen is in better condition this summer.

PEDs are banned. He served his suspension. Some people honestly take supplements with banned substances all the time and don't realize it. King Mo claims this in his current case.
Why not applaud Dan Henderson instead? 41 years old and near a title shot at LHW.
It doesn't matter if it is legit Testosterone replacement, if you go over the legal level then it is considered cheating. You must monitor yourself and not take too much. Even if medical, there is no excuse for elevated levels when fighting.

ur post betrays substantial ignorance regarding the metabolism of exogenous hormones, the "normal" endogenous range, and the primitive testing for either.

If you don't take Testosterone replacement, then you won't show elevated levels.
If you do take Testosterone replacement, then you must test at or below the acceptable level.
Bottom line, no one who is following the rules will have a problem. Only people who try and break the rules will have a problem (i.e. Nate Marquardt). Are you familiar with his situation?
In all your wisdom, why does Dan Henderson not have a problem with elevated levels even though he makes use of Testosterone replacement?
As it is, you sound like you are trying to justify cheating.

ur first statement is false n progresses from there. the "normal range" is still poorly understood...what is better understood r some of the chemical traces differentiating exogenous T from endogenous. however, WHY is an endogenous T-level of 1400 acceptable and an exogenous T-level of 1100 "out of range"? u r aware that the "normal range" will be more commonly exceeded by athletes than by most people in general, no?

the rules r based on scare-mongering and pseudo-science.

As Bas Rutten said on the matter, if you use testosterone replacement for 'performance enhancing effect', then you are a loser.

Here is my original statement:

Please highlight the exact words and/or sentence which you find false.

I don't know about 'ranges', but you seem to have shared some good info.

Let me first say that a fighter can't be faulted for having naturally high levels of Testosterone.

Likewise, a fighter can and should be faulted if he seeks to raise his Testosterone level to that of someone with naturally high levels. Can't chase the dragon. He is only supposed to use it in order to make things fair, not to use it as his means of competing.

Next, it is illogical to say that athletes somehow have higher levels of Testosterone than non-athletes. If you say such a thing, you would have to then account for those who play on teams but are not athletes. What I mean by this, is that just because someone plays sports professionally, it doesn't make them an athlete. Shaq himself has said that he was never an athlete/athletic.

While it makes sense that some people with high Testosterone levels may gravitate towards sports, skill and talent are what matters most. In the NBA, high testosterone may make someone stronger and more aggressive, but it won't increase shooting percentage.

So, when you say, "u r aware that the "normal range" will be more commonly exceeded by athletes than by most people in general, no?", I don't see your point since we are talking about artificially exceeding the allowable range, not about people who play the sport fairly. Why are we even comparing sports players/fighters to 'most people in general'?

It sounds like you are making up another excuse.

What it comes down to is that not everyone in the UFC is an athlete. Perhaps the problem arises when non-athletic fighters desire to be somewhat athletic.

i'm not addressing ur digressions, especially ur semantic ones. incidentally, "skill" and "talent" also derive partly from hormones, as will hand-eye coordination and nerve training. ur description of "cheating" presumes a level playing field that has never existed, but one need only partly address that larger question when one considers the specific issue raised by Chael Sonnen, Matt Hughes and Randy Couture: that the grueling physical stresses of bulking n cutting (especially to the specs of a pro-MMA athlete) has essentially crashed their endocrine system, sinking their own natural baseline testosterone level.

ur understanding of hormonal functioning is par for the course of most sports fans (and lawmakers, unfortunately), and i'm not one for filtering scientific and medical arguments thru the lens of secondary culture. whether within or without some predetermined range for "most people", hormones r not magical elixers, and extracting an athletic advantage from them comes with ADDED work, not subtracted work.

Skill is based on the genetics, regardless of hormones which are regulated by the body. Talent is developed in the presence of skill. Shooting a basketball has been proven to be a sports skill that is equal in both males and females. Testosterone plays no part. The girls' basketball is smaller, but that is because of smaller hands. Testosterone therapy, by your explanation, should make female basketball players better shooters. Hmmmmmm.

I suppose that you mean someone can inherit strong testosterone... perhaps from the mother.

Not everyone can be Lebron James. James has naturally high testosterone, I am assuming, but it would be irresponsible for any other player to take hormones in order to equal the levels that James has naturally. Kobe has average levels most likely...much below Lebron's, but it doesn't matter since Bryant is the best player.

You would have to compare Metta World Peace to Lebron. Even then, the difference is skill.

The same goes for MMA. Not every fighter 'bulks and cuts' as you put it. Lightweight champ Frankie Edgar fights and walks around at 155 lbs. It has been suggested that he go down to 145 lbs. Also, seeing as how Couture only got up to 230 lbs for his Heavyweight bouts, then it means he never had to cut weight at that class.

No one forces fighters to cut weight in order to meet the limit for a specific weight class. The fighter is free to choose his own weight class. He must take responsibility for making that weight.

It isn't healthy to force oneself to lose so much weight so quickly. The downside of it shows during the fights. They are slow, can't think, weak in the clinch, and gas easily. If you saw the Maia fight on FOX, it looked like they were fighting in slow motion due to the negative effects of serious weight cuts apparently.

Dan Henderson doesn't take Testosterone replacement in order to gain an edge. Rather, he uses it to make his body work like it did back when he was younger. According to the UFC, that is allowed. He is 41 though. 30 is too young for that stuff.


The level playing field is the many different weight classes. If there isn't proof of this already, then wait for the introduction of the 125 lb Flyweight class in the UFC. All of those fighters who were just too small to compete at 135 lbs due to larger fighters cutting weight to make the Bantamweight limit will now have a home of their own.

Incidentally, Matt Hughes and Randy Couture both suffered KO losses in their final octagon bouts and there is evidence that cutting weight removes the water from the brain and thus makes the fighter more susceptible to KO strikes.

Also, Heavyweights don't need to cut weight unless they are maxed out at 265 lbs, which is rare. The champ is only 239 lbs.

As I said, just because someone fights professionally in the UFC or in any other organization, it does not make them an athlete. Jon Jones is an athlete.... Roy Nelson isn't. This is the beauty of it, the person does not need to be an athlete... they just need to fight.

Some good interviews on mmafighting.com with Diaz, Condit etc. Nick Diaz is an interesting guy. I think he is misunderstood. He comes off bad, but I don't think his intent is to piss people off. He claims the UFC spliced together two different sound bites to make it sound like he was talking shit.

Kos "hopes" GSP never recovers from his injury. Seems he wants the easiest path possible to UFC gold. He also said he has some slight numbness below his eye that will never go away. Said it is a constant reminder of what GSP did to him. I cant say I feel bad for him.

Mike Pierce fucking with Koscheck at the weigh-in

"Shooting a basketball has been proven to be a sports skill that is equal in both males and females. Testosterone plays no part."

Source? I've never seen one lady shoot a correct jump shot or dunk the ball off the dribble in traffic. Strength, jumping ability, and reach all play hugely important roles in shooting effectiveness and could be aided by just about anything performance enhancing. Even in acts such as free throws or putting in golf, that are almost exclusively based on muscle memory, repetition and natural skill, both the average and elite female competitors are inferior to their male counterparts. The best five female players ever would not beat a good high school boys team.

"Not everyone can be Lebron James. James has naturally high testosterone, I am assuming, but it would be irresponsible for any other player to take hormones in order to equal the levels that James has naturally. Kobe has average levels most likely...much below Lebron's, but it doesn't matter since Bryant is the best player."

Source for your assumptions regarding Lebron and Kobe? Kobe is probably the third best player in the Western Conference (fourth if Dirk were not injured).

"Dan Henderson doesn't take Testosterone replacement in order to gain an edge. Rather, he uses it to make his body work like it did back when he was younger."

How is that not gaining an edge?

"Incidentally, Matt Hughes and Randy Couture both suffered KO losses in their final octagon bouts and there is evidence that cutting weight removes the water from the brain and thus makes the fighter more susceptible to KO strikes."

Source? There is also evidence that cumulative damage (prior knockouts) increases susceptibility to KO's.

"As I said, just because someone fights professionally in the UFC or in any other organization, it does not make them an athlete. Jon Jones is an athlete.... Roy Nelson isn't. This is the beauty of it, the person does not need to be an athlete... they just need to fight."

You ever see a fight where Roy Nelson utilizes his BJJ skills? The guy is actually a great athlete, quite quick and very coordinated. He just has a massive beer gut.

I have to go with Diaz. Although I would like to see him lose. It would take a good shot followed by several follow up shots to take him out, but I just don't see it happening that way.
Diaz by dec.

Links to streams?

Im not counting Roy Nelson out, but Werdum looks like an animal tonight

I don't know how Nelson survived that fight. Werdum looked amazing. Great fight!