***Official 2012 Still Best Rotation in Baseball Phillies Thread***

I'd rather have a 28 year old Ramirez than a 33 year old Rollins....Utley will be hurt next year....and don't tell me you still like Howard's contract.....

Now when was the last time Nationals won a playoff game?

Rollins is still a serviceable SS, Utley says his legs are getting stronger which shows in his power numbers, and Howard is still 30 100 guy which isn't easy to find. Worry about those Dodgers getting shutout against Colorado.

Baseball is a game of inches and that was shown last night. Schneider smokes a ball to right center that would have scored 2 runs instead Heyward makes a snow cone catch. Next inning Freeman hits a 2 run double down the line that pretty ended the game with way Sheets was pitching.

Hamels has been average lately and needs to show tonight he is worth the money he got.

Serviceable doesn't cut it when he's getting paid that kind of money

Face it the Phillies are done, it may take 10 years to rebuild.

10 years shit they will be contenders next year. Enjoy Nats run then they will lose their top players to free agency.

.260 20 65 25 is an elite level for SS including gold glove defense.

I guess my problem is more with them force feeding him as a leadoff hitter.

I'm sure you don't mind those 40 leadoff HR. He doesn't get on base as much as you want a leadoff hitter, but thats his best spot in the lineup.

Lieberthal added to the Phillies wall. Probably doesn't deserve it, but I'll always remember I was at the first CBP win for the Phillies which he hit the GW HR in the 8th.

I think his BB to K ratio is a little more disturbing, like I said he should have been moved down in the line-up several years ago and they should have gotten a legit leadoff guy.

When Rollins scores the Phillies win plain and simple. He is far from the problem with this team. They had leadoff hitter in Bourn, but needed a lights out closer which they got in Lidge. I wouldn't be surprised if they made a hard run to bring Bourn back to Philly.

Doc looked back to his old self Friday and same old problem with Lee one bad inning no run support. Sarge is right that Lee throws too many strikes. He had Holliday down in the count both times late in the game instead of throwing curve or change to get him to chase throws cutters right down the middle. Not sure if its Lee or catcher calling pitches, but make the hitters chase down 0-2 and 1-2 as you have pitches to waste.

How about the Phillies just plain suck?

Really suck taking 2 of 3 from the defending champs

If you don't see their a completely different team with Utley and Howard then your a moron. Since they have comeback they gotten multiple comeback wins including some walkoffs which one was yesterday. Kratz all he does is get big hits as he ties it with 3 run HR in 8th then Pierre walkoff which was aided by Rollins stealing 3rd the pitch before.

Marlins have lit up Hamels this year mostly Ramirez so thankfully he is in LA now.

I'd be curious as to what their record is since they've come back?

Utley and Howard don't solve the problem of a shit bullpen and gas cans in Kendrick and Worley. Worley has been horrible since the injury and they should just let him have surgery getting ready for next year. They need to call up Tyler Cloyd who is 14-1 with a 2.07 era in the minors. Give him a shot as we already know Kendrick is garbage.

Onto the good Hamels is back to his old self with back to back shutouts along with 22 scoreless inning streak. Looked shaky after signing the big deal, but back in Cy Young contention. Left 26 guys on base so no clutch hitting again, but Hamels only needed 1 run as Pierre lead the attack going 3-5 with run and RBI triple.

Bum Kendrick against Johnson who they never hit so I'll definitely be betting on the Marlins.

I'll admit I wouldn't know because I wouldn't waste my time watching a Phillies game. Mets aren't going anywhere, I knew this since their 1-12 start after the AS break, it's getting closer to the time to concentrate on the greatest football team ever, The New York Defending Champion Football Giants, I'd give anything to have them bitch slap Brady around again to take it all.

They won't even make the playoffs this year.

They'll be in the cellar next year again....it will be years before they compete again, old, overpaid, injury prone....recipe for FAIL.....Nats are owned by the richest owners in baseball, good luck with that wish.

Cellar they will finish 3rd as they will pass Mutts and Marlins.

Rich owners doesn't matter. Twin owner is rich as hell yet they let go Santana and Hunter. Strasburg will get huge offer from Yankees especially since your GM is a pussy shutting him down. Chance to win the WS and you give up lmao.

Pay Papelbon all this fucking money for what!!!!!

Can't bring him in for one more out WTF. I'm sick of Manuel robot bullshit managing

Two main problems all season long blew another game. Lee dominating then error at 3B takes him out then Lindblom can't throw a strike goes right down the fucking middle game over. Just another example why wins for a pitcher mean nothing.

I thought you loved Papelbon.

Which is it?

The luxury of no tax

Knowing the Phillies won't reach the luxury tax this year is nice, but the real advantage comes in 2013. The system is structured so that repeat offenders pay continually higher taxes: beginning next season, the rates are 17.5 percent for first offenders, 30 percent for second-time offenders, 40 percent for third-time offenders, and 50 percent for four-times or more offenders.
With the Phillies avoiding the penalty this season, if they exceed it next year they will be slapped with a 17.5 percent tax rather than the 30 percent fee they would have incurred if they went over in 2012. Anything less than winning the World Series could have been catastrophic for a team with serious needs in many areas.
It explains Ruben Amaro's recent comments regarding the trades: "That’s why we moved Hunter Pence and Victorino," said Ruben. "It creates a lot of salary flexibility for us." Normally the translation for the word flexibility is more money in the owners' pockets, but in this case flexibility may actually mean flexibility.
With the luxury tax threshold increasing to $189 million in 2014, the Phillies would be much more amenable to getting close to that number next season now that they will only be taxed at 17.5 percent. If the Phillies extended their payroll to nearly $189 million over the next two seasons, they would only pay around $1.75 million in 2012 and nothing in 2014. Twelve games under .500 doesn't look quite as bad now, does it?
The luxury tax and the Phillies 2013 payroll

Now on to the specifics in regards to the 2013 payroll. The Phillies already have $138.35 million guaranteed to 10 player next season. Nate Schierholtz projects to make around a $3 million in arbitration salary and Antonio Bastardo should make around $1.5 million in arbitration. That leaves Domonic Brown, John Mayberry Jr., Vance Worley, Josh Lindblom and Jake Diekman who should earn close to the 2013 minimum of $490,000, plus a backup catcher (possibly Kratz) and a utility player who should also earn close to the minimum, bringing the total payroll to around $147 million for 19 players.
Which brings us back to the luxury tax. If the Phillies are willing to stretch their payroll to close to $189 million next year, they have over $40 million dollars to spend. That's flexibility. It means the Phils will have $40 million to pay for third base, center field, right field, and up to three relief pitchers.

There aren't any good FA 3rd baseman available, so that position won't cost them much. OF should get the vast majority of that 42 million, can't go w/ marginal players there as they already have Dom Brown penciled in for one of those starting spots, and he is a mediocre hitter w/ no power and suspect defense.

I'd be happier if they traded Lee in the offseason and spread his money around, then you could get two top flight outfielders, a no 3 pitcher, bullpen, 3rd base and not sniff the luxury tax.